What if Anet drops the AoE radius for ranged offensive skills significantly?
This would likely have a very positive effect on large scale combat since a handful of players wouldn’t be able to blanket an area with red circles. It might not solve the pirate ship issue but it would certainly help. It might also bring some parity between melee and ranged.
There is no need trying mend one imbalance with another.
AoE is prevalent because of CC and CC is spammed because the mechanics were changed to amount (rather than timing).
As always, the solution to the ranged AoE and CC spam is to revert stability back to a system of coverage and rips instead of boon-spam to condi-spam to cleanses.
There is no need trying mend one imbalance with another.
Reducing the ease of large scale ranged AoE promotes skill play over spam play. Rather than creating more imbalance, I believe reducing its radius brings it more in balance rather than out of it.
As for stability while I think the hammer train meta was better, it was not balanced either. Making it so that ranged AoE/CC can be more easily dodged and requires greater precision could indeed be a more neutral approach to the problem. As it stands the CC blankets such a large area it is impossible to escape it hence pirate ship.
As it stands the CC blankets such a large area it is impossible to escape it hence pirate ship.
Reducing the radius would just make the pirate ship bring even more ranged and throw out the “poor” classes in order to adapt (ie instead of the backline being 10 necros + 10 randoms commanders are gonna say 20 necros or gtfo). Its not gonna solve anything.
Allowing melee to better walk over cc blankets for in your face combat is a much safer bet to reduce pirateshipping and bring back some selfbalance.
Reducing the radius would just make the pirate ship bring even more ranged and throw out the “poor” classes in order to adapt (ie instead of the backline being 10 necros + 10 randoms commanders are gonna say 20 necros or gtfo). Its not gonna solve anything.
I don’t think adding significantly more back liners is possible. Zergs are almost completely comprised of back liners tossing AoE now. There are a few exceptions but not many at least in T1.
Allowing melee to better walk over cc blankets for in your face combat is a much safer bet to reduce pirateshipping and bring back some selfbalance.
The problem with the old stability is that it was nearly as problematic as pirate ship. Hammer/Horn warriors and staff guardians were out of control. In skirmish play, the old stab was ridiculously OP. I am not saying reducing ranged AoE/CC radius is a perfect or even ideal solution but it at least opens up the concept of something in between. Currently a zerg has little chance of bypassing the massive circles being thrown from 1200 and the game play requires virtually no skill since the target areas can easily surround 20+ players.
Eh, which ranged AoE skills did you have in mind?
DH Long bow 5 / Hunter’s Ward … 360 radius barricades
Ranger barrage (DPS + cripple, not spikey, 2+ activation) … 360 radius
DH Longbow 4 / Symbol of Energy
Revenant Hammer 3 / Phase Smash …. 240 radius with chill
Revenant Hammer 5 / Drop the Hammer – not that high damage and huge animation … 240 radius
Chrono Gravity Well … broken CC , 240 radius
Chrono well of calamity = 240 radius
Necro Well of Suffering = 240 radius
Necro Well of Corruption = 240 radius
Necro Well of Darkness (no damage unless you run Reaper Chill damage trait and Chill on blind) = 240 radius
Necro Marks (mostly condi , all 240 radius)
Necro scepter 2 Grasping dead (240 radius)
Necro dagger 5 Enfeebling blood (240 radius) … boon corrupt
Necro Lich form 2 / Marked for death (360 radius)
Mesmer Null field – 240 radius
Mesmer feedback – 240 radius
Mesmer time warp – 360 radius
Ele Fireball (180 radius)
Ele Ice Spike (300 radius, very slow delayed attack)
Ele Frozen ground 300 radius
Ele Lava Font (180 radius, it’s DPS over 4 seconds not spikey)
Ele Meteor Shower (360 radius, it’s 2+ activation, 20 recharge, not that spikey, and obvious animation)
Ele Eruption (300 radius, delayed attack)
Ele Dragon’s Tooth (180 radius, stupidly slow, obvious animation) … lol.
Ele Phoenix (240 radius , very flashy)
Ele Shatterstone (180 radius)
Ele cyclone (240 radius)
Ele wildfire (180 radius)
Ele arcane wave (360 radius)
Mesmer mind stab (240 radius)
Mesmer chaos storm (240 radius)
Guardian Symbol of Swiftness (it’s DPS not spikey)
Scrapper Hammer 5 Thunderclap – 240 radius
Warrior Longbow 3 Arcing Arrow – 240 radius
Engineer mortar kit – 240 radius ; 360 radius orbital strike
Engineer grenade kit – 120 radius each grenade (unreliable)
Engineer mine – 240 radius
Engineer rocket turret toolbelt skill – 240 radius
Scrapper purge gyro (toolbelt poison cloud)- 300 radius
Scrapper Blast gyro – 240 radius
Ranger & DH traps – 180 radius, 240 effective …. edit for clarification : when precasted in stacks
Ranger muddy terrain (utility) = 240 radius
Thief Shortbow 2 Cluster Bomb = 240 radius
Thief Shortbow 4 Choking gas = 240 radius poison 4 pulses
Guardian scepter 2 Smite = 200 radius
…. might have missed some stuff but you get the point.
edit: also I think the 1200 range line attacks with piercing that do not have red circles are far worse , due to hitting backliner and frontline at once:
Herald CoR w/ Cruel Repercussions + Facet of Darkness + Assassin’s Presence + Roiling Mists
Berserker Gunflame
DH True Shot when running less tanky
not as extreme : Warrior Fan of Fire, Warrior Volley (kept in check by the cast time), Ranger Poison Volley
(edited by Infusion.7149)
Eh, which ranged AoE skills did you have in mind?
DH Long bow 5 / Hunter’s Ward … 360 radius barricades
Ranger barrage (DPS + cripple, not spikey, 2+ activation) … 360 radiusDH Longbow 4 / Symbol of Energy
Revenant Hammer 3 / Phase Smash …. 240 radius with chill
Revenant Hammer 5 / Drop the Hammer – not that high damage and huge animation … 240 radius
Chrono Gravity Well … broken CC , 240 radius
Chrono well of calamity (360 radius)
Necro Well of Suffering = 240 radius
Necro Well of Corruption = 240 radius
Necro Well of Darkness (no damage unless you run Reaper Chill damage trait and Chill on blind) = 240 radius
Necro Marks (mostly condi , all 240 radius)
Necro scepter 2 Grasping dead (240 radius)
Necro dagger 5 Enfeebling blood (240 radius) … boon corrupt
Necro Lich form 2 / Marked for death (360 radius)
Ele Fireball (180 radius)
Ele Ice Spike (300 radius, very slow delayed attack)
Ele Frozen ground 300 radius
Ele Lava Font (180 radius, it’s DPS over 4 seconds not spikey)
Ele Meteor Shower (360 radius, it’s 2+ activation, 20 recharge, not that spikey, and obvious animation)
Ele Eruption (300 radius, delayed attack)
Ele Dragon’s Tooth (180 radius, stupidly slow, obvious animation) … lol.
Ele Shatterstone (180 radius)
Ele cyclone (240 radius)
Ele wildfire (180 radius)
Ele arcane wave (360 radius)
Mesmer mind stab (240 radius)
Mesmer chaos storm (240 radius)
Guardian Symbol of Swiftness (it’s DPS not spikey)
Scrapper Hammer 5 Thunderclap – 240 radius
Warrior Longbow 3 Arcing Arrow – 240 radius
Engineer mortar kit – 240 radius
Engineer grenade kit – 120 radius each grenade (unreliable)
Ranger traps – 180 radius, 240 effective
Ranger muddy terrain (utility) = 240 radius
Thief Shortbow 2 Cluster Bomb = 240 radius
Thief Shortbow 4 Choking gas = 240 radius poison 4 pulses
Guardian scepter 2 Smite = 200 radius…. might have missed some stuff but you get the point.
Ranger traps are no longer Ranged that changed ages ago.
If aoe radius attack is nerfed there would be a problem fighting people over the walls and elevated spots.
Is the problem the AoE radius or the choke points? I can usually stay out of red circles if I have somewhere else to move to.
What it needs to be nerfed is the damage or the effect, not the radius.
A 1200 range skill locking 5 enemies or doing +10k damage is the problem, not reaching a big area.
What it needs to be nerfed is the damage or the effect, not the radius.
A 1200 range skill locking 5 enemies or doing +10k damage is the problem, not reaching a big area.
But that is what gw2 is about, only good players press that button!
Joking asside, theres to much aoe if u notice even most AA is AOE but limited to 3 targets, IF Anet made AA more simple and towards one target only, game would be more player skill based instad spamm aoe range skills and hope waterblasts and high damage is more than what other group has….
No wonder pirate ship took place…….
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
Eh, which ranged AoE skills did you have in mind?
…
Most of it. I am thinking most ranged AoE should be similar in size to the Guardian’s Symbol of Swiftness which is 180. Big enough to catch players but small enough to be able to dodge through. I would also suggest making all CC circles blockable and dodgable.
If aoe radius attack is nerfed there would be a problem fighting people over the walls and elevated spots.
Not sure I understand why this would be the case. Even if it were shouldn’t elevation/wll provide a substantial advantage?
Is the problem the AoE radius or the choke points? I can usually stay out of red circles if I have somewhere else to move to.
In a zerg fight, the area is completely blanketed between two zergs. That is the reason I posed reducing the radius on much of the AoE DPS/CC abilities.
What it needs to be nerfed is the damage or the effect, not the radius. A 1200 range skill locking 5 enemies or doing +10k damage is the problem, not reaching a big area.
Skills like Meteor Shower can hit nearly 75 players and Static Field is not limited to the number of players it can effect. In fact there is no way to dodge or block through a Static Field. It also has a larger radius than the tool tip.
Joking asside, theres to much aoe if u notice even most AA is AOE but limited to 3 targets
Cleave is a completely different animal and by no means a significant problem. That has been around since the beginning and long before pirate ship.
Skills like Meteor Shower can hit nearly 75 players and Static Field is not limited to the number of players it can effect. In fact there is no way to dodge or block through a Static Field. It also has a larger radius than the tool tip.
Meteor Shower can hit so many people because the attack consists on several bombs, each one can hit up to 3 targets. So it has a limitation as other skills.
Static Field, like many other skills, can affect a limitless amount of players because there’s not any area effect involved, but a line (note that Static Field effect happens at the border, but it does nothing if the player moves inside it).
Veil, Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Hunter’s Ward, Temporal Curtain, Unsteady Ground… They al are line effects which can affect limitless amount of players.
And here you’re admitting I’m right. The issue with meteor shower is the fact that has tons of mini attacks, not that the radius is too large.
Also, the issue with Static Field comes from a mechanic of its unblockable fact and a mechanic of evade, not that it has a larger radius than what it should be.
Ergo, the issue with ranged AoE skills is their effects are too powerful and not they’re too big.
(edited by Ansau.7326)
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