Guild Wars 2

As the name suggests this post will hopefully incite some discussion on the request for ArenaNet to reduce the glicko on t1 NA servers artificially. Currently t1 and t2 are in bubbles of themselves when we know from a fact that the difference in coverage is not so vastly different anymore and with many individuals like my guild quitting the game because t1 has become too stale for us primarily due to the fact that we’re stuck in the same server rotation week in and week out there is no motivation to play anymore.

Arenanet has tampered with ratings in the past in the past they increased t8’s rating as it had decreased too much for any server to be able to escape it.

Just want to hear everyones thoughts on this aswell.

Or a tourney. I know tournaments are not great, but they at least shuffle the matchups…..

this doesn’t solve anything at all even if you shuffle matchups weak servers will just get rolled by the strong servers and players will just QQ for getting rolled.

Weak servers will get rolled for 1 week before facing new opponents. Guess what, some are getting rolled by the same servers over and over and over right now….

Guess what? no easy fix to this, and weaker servers will always get rolled by stronger ones no matterwhat Anet does.

Maybe Blackgate shouldn’t have resorted to push weeks/non push weeks to keep glicko balanced for the T1 servers, or “saved” JQ from collapsing last year if that’s what was going to happened if TW hadn’t moved over.

T1 is getting what they worked for, and deserves, to play by themselves.

P.S I’m sure FA would be happy to feed glicko to YB to push them to T1, now T1 has to decide who wants to drop.

Xenesis.6389:

Maybe Blackgate shouldn’t have resorted to push weeks/non push weeks to keep glicko balanced for the T1 servers, or “saved” JQ from collapsing last year if that’s what was going to happened if TW hadn’t moved over.

T1 is getting what they worked for, and deserves, to play by themselves.

Couldn’t have said it better. T1 got what it deserved.

I was surprised that they didn’t set WvW up into seasons from the beginning. At the end of every season, each server’s rating gets re-set and you start over from the beginning. This would give servers who were already on top an incentive to keep trying, and lets servers who worked hard to improve their WvW ability over a season have a chance to move up next season.

It’s too late now to do something like that (I think), and the above is a pretty simplified idea, but it was always surprising to me it didn’t start out that way.

arent some guilds from t1 moving to YB to push YB as the 4th T1 server?

But yeah our glicko is really stale for t1 and T2

People on stacked servers shouldn’t get what they want. Just because they move to the first place team doesn’t mean they deserve it. Just because you spend your real world money on alt accounts for spies doesn’t mean you deserve 1st place or the right to farm a “different” set of bags. “Login to win” shouldn’t be a thing.

If anything should be done to “adjust” T1 it would mean coverage re balancing and/or splitting up servers.

este.8651:

People on stacked servers shouldn’t get what they want. Just because they move to the first place team doesn’t mean they deserve it. Just because you spend your real world money on alt accounts for spies doesn’t mean you deserve 1st place or the right to farm a “different” set of bags. “Login to win” shouldn’t be a thing.

If anything should be done to “adjust” T1 it would mean coverage re balancing and/or splitting up servers.

I am not saying the system is good, but I don’t see why I deserve to be put on a dead server with no fights because I switched to JQ a month after launch because I learned that’s where the opponents were strong and numerous.

They should have just done it DAoC style honestly. Too late now.

Come to Underworld. Far from “boring” T1 come face the same “boring” T9 adversaries for months! Plenty of room for you guys to save us, no queues and new adversaries. Including challenging hackers! : )

I think personally the entire server system is completely unbalanced anymore. The top couple tiers have very large populations, and a lot of the low tier servers are just empty. People just hop from server to server, bandwagoning and filling up new servers only to leave them dry a few months later. T1 servers rigged their own matches to keep it locked to the same 3 servers, that’s their own fault.

Anet should have tried harder from the beginning to keep servers balanced, but they didn’t and now everything is a huge mess. I think it’s too late to ask for help because I can’t see Anet really putting any time, effort, or resources towards fixing the mess they’ve made. Probably their solution to all the WvW problems is to convert WvW to EoTM with the expansion and new maps.

Complaining about a T1 server dead with no fights, LOL, do you even know what servers are like under T1?

I moved to SoS a month after release and look what happened to that server.
Got denied going to T1 after rebuilding from being top of T1, because T1 servers decided they only wanted to play with themselves and wanted nothing to do with T2 servers, not even the thought of a rotation every other week. So T1 made sure the glicko for all 3 servers stayed high enough so that SoS couldn’t reach them.

SoS is now a dead floater in T2, most of their ocx and sea went to BG(snicker guess where the op is from) or JQ, when they couldn’t make the push, a revolving door of NA the last 10 months because of the T2/3 kitten, parts of which went to JQ, YB, FA, DB, EB, CD, SBI and a couple others. Did SoS deserve that? (well honestly it probably did with the type of players it recruited for NA lol)

T1 just needs to double team one server until the glicko drops enough to break the barrier.

And yes the ratings system is worthless at this point, one up one down is needed.

Xenesis.6389:

T1 just needs to double team one server until the glicko drops enough to break the barrier.

It has been attempted. Multiple times. It fails. Lots of reasons. The tier is self sustaining at this point.

It’s been attempted but not seriously because none of the T1 servers were really interested in dropping to T2. (no one wants to be the next SoR)

You only need to get within 100 points of each other, YB needs to break 2k and someone in T1 needs to drop to 2100.

Xenesis.6389:

It’s been attempted but not seriously because none of the T1 servers were really interested in dropping to T2. (no one wants to be the next SoR)

You only need to get within 100 points of each other, YB needs to break 2k and someone in T1 needs to drop to 2100.

SoR dropped like a brick becuase of major internal nonesense from certain commanders and guilds so players jumped ship.

JediYoda.1275:

SoR dropped like a brick becuase of major internal nonesense from certain commanders and guilds so players jumped ship.

Yeah, and also some people wanted T2 and some wanted to stay in T1, which will be a problem now for any server that goes into this rotation. Same with SoS some moved because of the potential it had to get stuck in T3 while players all wanted to stay in T2.

But is T1 really ready to have a T1/2 rotation? or are people going to panic at the first sign of trouble and transfer to the best T1 server? I believe that FA and YB seem ready for T1 fights, hell they’re even open for more transfers right now too if anyone wants to move and help cover their weak times.

shuffling T1 and T2 match ups is the only way to reduce the point gap, regardless of how loopsided they could be. we all know T1 are rigged, so who knows a T2 server could just crush any of the T1….

Xenesis.6389:

It’s been attempted but not seriously because none of the T1 servers were really interested in dropping to T2. (no one wants to be the next SoR)

You only need to get within 100 points of each other, YB needs to break 2k and someone in T1 needs to drop to 2100.

Edit:
It is actually something greater than 100 when you include the RNG roll and deviations. Page 6 of matchup wish list thread (don’t know how to link on iPad) snow reap explains the math……

Y’all just need to spread yourselves out amongst T2, T3 and T4 servers and then we could have 12 servers mixing it up weekly like in EU.

Xenesis.6389:

It’s been attempted but not seriously because none of the T1 servers were really interested in dropping to T2. (no one wants to be the next SoR)

You only need to get within 100 points of each other, YB needs to break 2k and someone in T1 needs to drop to 2100.

A concerted 6 week 2 on 1 push isn’t serious?

the only way i see to get variety is to base the colors off of something else besides glicko, I still say the Orders should decide what color you are based off of storyline, then you can just pick whatever side you want to be on in the Mists, this is a dream still remember? don’t want to do storyline on any character at all? then you just get sent to a random side.

there’s variety, and choice….what else do you want.

Well, don’t worry. There are a bunch of people currently trying to manipulate the system so that YB comes to T1. Unfortunately, they are really just trying to spice things up for themselves by doing something new and different under this altruistic guise. What will end up happening is they will get YB up to T1, and one server will drop to T2. Due to the glico system, the new T1 and T2 servers will stay that way.

Now, the only way this doesn’t happen is if these people transfer again to another T2 server once YB comes to T1. They will have to perpetually do this again and again in order to keep cycling fresh servers into T1. This is due to the way the glico system will treat the new 4th place server. It severely punishes the new 4th place server if they don’t win by a large margin, and greatly rewards the new 3rd place server, even if they loose. This immediately creates a large gap between the the tiers.

But I don’t think that will happen. I think these new transferrs will just stay on YB and enjoy fighting against their old server mates and be happy that one of the T1 servers, either BG or TC, will fall.

The funny thing is, one of the reasons these transfers give to going to YB is for something new. But if their plan succeeds, they will be back in the same tier fighting many of the same people as before (many of these people play regularly on both BG and TC).

Unfortunately, glico is very hard to manipulate.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Well, don’t worry. There are a bunch of people currently trying to manipulate the system so that YB comes to T1. Unfortunately, they are really just trying to spice things up for themselves by doing something new and different under this altruistic guise. What will end up happening is they will get YB up to T1, and one server will drop to T2. Due to the glico system, the new T1 and T2 servers will stay that way.

Now, the only way this doesn’t happen is if these people transfer again to another T2 server once YB comes to T1. They will have to perpetually do this again and again in order to keep cycling fresh servers into T1. This is due to the way the glico system will treat the new 4th place server. It severely punishes the new 4th place server if they don’t win by a large margin, and greatly rewards the new 3rd place server, even if they loose. This immediately creates a large gap between the the tiers.

But I don’t think that will happen. I think these new transferrs will just stay on YB and enjoy fighting against their old server mates and be happy that one of the T1 servers, either BG or TC, will fall.

The funny thing is, one of the reasons these transfers give to going to YB is for something new. But if their plan succeeds, they will be back in the same tier fighting many of the same people as before (many of these people play regularly on both BG and TC).

Unfortunately, glico is very hard to manipulate.

Us going to T1 hype is getting overblown. Most guilds that are coming are NA guilds (we already queued 4 maps regularly prior to their arrival – this includes the GvG guilds) and a few off hour guilds AFAIK. Each of the three tier 1 servers have off hour coverage that it exceeds off hour coverage of the three T2 servers combined. That alone will make JQ/TC/BG stay in T1 until one of them really implode like SoR did and that is not happening.

If we are in for a 6 server rotation then the other 2 T2 servers MUST get fatter (but that’s difficult since they are full most of the day) because the overstacked server in T2 for the week will lose guilds/players constantly due to lack of action during off hours thereby arriving at the same situation as now.

Johje Holan.4607:

Y’all just need to spread yourselves out amongst T2, T3 and T4 servers and then we could have 12 servers mixing it up weekly like in EU.

The problem with this is that the wall of T1/T2/T3 has to be broken first before you can split the playerbase across all the servers.

Unless you break coverage, you won’t break T1. Tier 1 servers are not in T1 because they can blob NA every day. Most WvW active servers can blob during NA just fine, it’s OCX, SEA, and EU timezone coverage that are issues for them. I’m on JQ, we get outblobbed during EST NA time slot, our ppt tick low during those few hours. But we have good coverage PST NA, OCX, SEA, and EU.

To fix stale match ups, they need to fix this coverage wars. I’d love to get more server rotation just for the sake of fighting some new opponents. Really, I think most people want to see new opponents every once in awhile. But until Anet change this coverage wars, not much will change.

If you search way back in my post history, I’ve made a few posts on this. They need to eliminate all servers, come up with 9 new servers with new names that are just for hosting WvW, and fill those up.

Xenesis.6389:

Maybe Blackgate shouldn’t have resorted to push weeks/non push weeks to keep glicko balanced for the T1 servers, or “saved” JQ from collapsing last year if that’s what was going to happened if TW hadn’t moved over.

T1 is getting what they worked for, and deserves, to play by themselves.

P.S I’m sure FA would be happy to feed glicko to YB to push them to T1, now T1 has to decide who wants to drop.

Not only is FA happy to do it, they’ve already started doing it. I have friends on FA and they all tell me different variations of:

“YB wants to make a T1 push, FA wants YB out of the T2 matchup. The consensus amongst GLs is that we will take a break and let them”

I wish everyone good luck with that “project” and i’m curious what will happen but I don’t think it will work.
Sure, you can get a server to T1 with a lot of transfers, but after that there are not many things that can happen.
It’s either getting a server where tons of people will transfer to (including fanboys, karma train people and all the others) and one of the other servers will go down
or
it’s dropping again because the “project” didn’t work out and it may lead to the end of the server.

We had this happening in GW2 – remember HoD, and SoR

So many comments said it right. T1 manipulates the glicko. I’ve seen JQ with a 70 man zerg only take outter towers and then they disappear. They could have rolled all of EB but gave up. Score remained close. FA should have been in T1 months ago or have been allowed to breathe the rarified air. YB now is huge and should have a crack at it. ANET has no issues with lower tier servers getting rolled. GOM was ticking 695 today in Golem week. Why would ANET not want to reward hard work in the upper bubble Tiers. Seems like all I read on here ANET is not really paying too much attention to the first 4 tiers matchups and letting it get stale.

Jay, Anet is not paying attention to nothing regarding WvW^^

Untill the dev’s devote time and resources to curb some of the problems in WvWvW things will continue to get worse.

DiscoJacen.1590:

Jay, Anet is not paying attention to nothing regarding WvW^^

Exactly they did nothing about certain server buying a win or about the obvious blatant match manipulation between all 3 servers in tournaments.

gavyne.6847:

Unless you break coverage, you won’t break T1. Tier 1 servers are not in T1 because they can blob NA every day. Most WvW active servers can blob during NA just fine, it’s OCX, SEA, and EU timezone coverage that are issues for them. I’m on JQ, we get outblobbed during EST NA time slot, our ppt tick low during those few hours. But we have good coverage PST NA, OCX, SEA, and EU.

To fix stale match ups, they need to fix this coverage wars. I’d love to get more server rotation just for the sake of fighting some new opponents. Really, I think most people want to see new opponents every once in awhile. But until Anet change this coverage wars, not much will change.

Agree fully. YB will have the NA coverage to dominate in T1, but without much more offhours coverage that’s all that YB will win. I know we got a few offhours guilds, but not enough to counter JQs SEA.

That being said, even if all that happens is that YB makes the occasional visit to T1, I think that makes it goal accomplished. T1/T2 lock has to be broken.

I’m sure of one thing tho; they’re aren’t touching anything for tier 9 and have not a godkitten problem leaving us with the same match up for the past year.

Meh It doesn’t really matter now since the past month has been nothing but hackers left to roam free despite videos, reports and threads.

Agree with the shuffling kitten ,Now how we gona do that is by cooperation from these 6 servers only if they agree to balance population on each servers, it would be good rotation 6 servers,,,, its a www royal rumble

So which of the T1 servers is going to drop to T2 so that YB can stay there ? Or even get there ? Which is the volunteer ?

By the sounds of it, I don’t think any of them volunteered lol, it’ll just be up to YB to break the barrier.

Tongku.5326:

So which of the T1 servers is going to drop to T2 so that YB can stay there ? Or even get there ? Which is the volunteer ?

People that planned this had something in mind. But no T1 server’s volunteering. At the moment the three T1 servers are separated by 3k, the closest match I’ve seen in a very long time.

It’ll be interesting to see how things develop in the future, especially with the changes coming to server status.

If you have transferred to T1, then you have gotten exactly what you deserved.

I think T1 servers are locked into something similar to what T2 servers had recently. They have to fight really hard to make sure they stay T1. This is good for the game, and something many people feel should have been happening all along.

If they fight as hard as they can there will be one that drops. I know this sounds odd, but I hope whichever drops does NOT have an exodus. We need more dynamic movement at the top.

Kaiser.9873:

I think T1 servers are locked into something similar to what T2 servers had recently. They have to fight really hard to make sure they stay T1. This is good for the game, and something many people feel should have been happening all along.

If they fight as hard as they can there will be one that drops. I know this sounds odd, but I hope whichever drops does NOT have an exodus. We need more dynamic movement at the top.

Not imploding after dropping is rather unlikely. Keeping in mind that JQ currently still has many fairweather transfers and only recently started to rebuild a strong community after persistent leadership issues (but suddenly lost one of their main NA guilds) and TC have had community issues… forever. BG might be able to sustain in T2 for a while, but even I think with BG, many guilds will start to leave once we drop out of T1 if we don’t have a way of getting back into T1 – I put my own guild in this category too.

So what happens to SoS and FA? They just wait each week to see which T1 server is going to come down and stomp on them while JQ and the remaining T1 server get to see who to knock back down?

As others have said, population has to be balanced to achieve what you guys are asking for. NA servers like to point at EU as an example of a balanced system, but it’s balanced because certain servers are designated as German, French, and English. NA is assumed to all be English so you just get bandwagon servers like YB, FA, CD, HoD… the list goes on and on of servers that have tried to break apart the tier system only to wind up making the rest of servers annoyed with even more imbalance than already existed.

At least the updated server status system will lock YB out of transfers for a good long while and SoS can finally get a WvW population. Much, much needed change. Perhaps that will help change the way the entire system plays when whole guilds can’t bandwagon around.

Bandwagon… LOL….. FA has been in T2/T3 for a really long time.

One of the additional factors for why NA is like it is has to do with the T2/T3 divide Anet created with the Gold and Silver divisions.

Yes, FA. It was an answer to YB’s attempt to push up several months ago and caused issues with fight guilds because you couldn’t raid as a guild (your only option was to scrim in the OS). No one is calling out only FA like no other server has ever done it; there’s plenty of examples across multiple tiers of servers that have tried to do this and either burnt out or made it partially up the ladder. Heck, BG got in guilds just for a tournament and then they left, lol. It happens, it has happened, and FA is certainly not the only server to do it. Personally it gives me more bags and fights so I don’t care if people do it, but it does upset a tier to stack a server to the point in a single day it’s already doubled the score of the other two servers. Just like in tournaments, this can make players on the other servers quit until things stabilize. I’m just not sure that this YB/BG (or TC) weekly swapping method is going to magically fix what the actual issue is and that’s server population balance.

The new server capping method could perhaps resolve the ability for large guilds to swoop in and tear up a tier, but it will remain to be seen until it is in place.

And I think you throw the term bandwagon around too easily. Bandwagons like HoD and Kaineng moved up all the way from Bronze Tier. FA moved up an average of two ranks. Not exactly comparable. There’s plenty of examples of “mini-bandwagons”, sure, and that happens to a lot of servers. They aren’t particularly spectacular.

What I, and many on YB expect to happen is that once the wall is broken T2 begins to take Glicko from whichever T1 server lands in T2 for the week. This will gradually bring Glicko to a more median place, at least amongst T1/T2 servers.

On YB the T1 guilds that have been playing have, without exception, been commenting on how large the forces both SoS and FA can field. It’s been stated by more than one former T1 player that T2 is as blobby, if not more blobby, than T1 is at the moment. That alone shows that the artificial Glicko wall needs to be broken.

Sure, much of what I hear is NA commentary, but I really do think this has a chance to make a more fluid situation. Also when the pop change goes into effect I expect that BG, JQ, TC, and YB will be counted as full, and perhaps FA as well. SoS should, and probably will, get some transfers. If we can keep at least some semblance of server movement in the top tiers then the game becomes more interesting.

Glicko bleed will happen once the wall is broken. T2 servers don’t even have to be super competitive to bleed Glicko off of whoever drops(a flaw in the system imo). What needs to happen though to make it stick is for the two weaker servers in both T1 and T2 to go hard after number one once the wall is broken. Spread that Glicko around some. Then we get a nice rotation, the stale matches become less stale, and many people rejoice.

Some of you guys have really been drinking some bad kool-aide.

You don’t have to play devil’s advocate ALL the time… grab a cup of tea and relax sometime!

Bandwagon, stacking, whatever you want to call it – it happens and for any number of reasons (stay in silver tier, break into T1, push up out of bronze tier, etc). You admitted it yourself. If the entire point of the current problem with YB is to “fix NA to be like EU” then NA still needs to realize that an overly stacked YB server is still going to be overly stacked after it breaks in T1. NA doesn’t seem to get that, again, EU works the way it does because of the languages on some servers that allows a more even spread to the population. It’s not perfect by any means, but certainly better than what we have.

If the goal is to get a cycle of servers going, then more guilds need to spread out to maintain it. Otherwise, as said earlier, it’s pretty much a stomp fest in T2 in terms of PPT while T1 will still find off weeks dull. I welcome my YB overlords because the bags are juicy and plentiful… it’s just too bad we don’t have points per kill anymore (stomps if you have bloodlust, yes – but not generic kills). Ah well. This was a much better week to test it out, Anet!

Kaiser.9873:

On YB the T1 guilds that have been playing have, without exception, been commenting on how large the forces both SoS and FA can field. It’s been stated by more than one former T1 player that T2 is as blobby, if not more blobby, than T1 is at the moment. That alone shows that the artificial Glicko wall needs to be broken.

T1 guilds were expecting the other servers home borderlands to be a cake walk and were sadly mistaken. It is by no means an indication of the populations on the other servers… it’s simply that we go to one place to try and hold on to our own land since we can’t field enough to be in the other two. T1 can complain about it, but really I’m not sure what they were expecting when they are a map queue and T2 is used to 20-30 man guilds generally. :P

Of course, my outmanned buff I have most of the night in NA prime would also tell a different story. No complaints, I love the bags and the fights, but they really can’t be upset that they can’t roflstomp their way to victory in a week, lol.