Guild Wars 2

I hate the Arrow Cart mechanic, but they’re fine right now. Not too deadly, but deadly enough if left unchecked. Should have less HP though, in my opinion. And maybe cost 10 silver like ballistas do.

Now if you want to see some OP Arrow Cart action, chuck down a trio of Superior Arrow Carts. That’ll teach a zerg a nasty lesson real fast.

Even more deadly is dual Superior Ballistas. Hilarious when the zerg tries to res someone and the two Superior Ballistas go Shatter Bolt them all at the same time. I tell you what, Superior Ballistas are addictive when placed right.

Left unchecked? How about the only peice of anti-personnel siege that can be placed in a location that cannot be destroyed? Making them a bit too ridiculous.

I would love to see them gone. Everything else is fine, but arrow carts take away what makes sieging keep/tower doors the most fun. In all seriousness 4 arrow carts can stop a 40man push on a door. That’s insane, and it pigeonholes you into using certain tactics at a constant leaving very little variety.

Daedalus.3954:

Left unchecked? How about the only peice of anti-personnel siege that can be placed in a location that cannot be destroyed? Making them a bit too ridiculous.

I would love to see them gone. Everything else is fine, but arrow carts take away what makes sieging keep/tower doors the most fun. In all seriousness 4 arrow carts can stop a 40man push on a door. That’s insane, and it pigeonholes you into using certain tactics at a constant leaving very little variety.

How do you propose stopping a 40 man push on a door? Just let them in? I’m sorry but people on the defense need a way to do just that. Defend.

Distract the enemy elsewhere to pull them off arrow carts, 3-6 people sneak around, set up two quick arrow carts. Bombard the wall with arrows. Kill the said arrow carts then profit. Have seen it done so many times while defending. They can be countered. They can be easily destroyed.

Sometimes mindlessly throwing yourself at a door isn’t the way to take something. Sometimes it’s effective, but usually it’s not.

You could always, oh I don’t know, break the wall or gate out of the AC’s range if they’re turtling with carts. Simple as that if you don’t want to bring in the non-personnel(golems) to deal with the anti-personnel fire.

And just because maybe you can’t hit it, doesn’t mean your other allies can’t. Barrage and Meteor Shower can do amazing things to well placed siege(as can your own arrow carts, or even ballistas).

I understand mass amounts of well-placed arrow carts suck to be up against, but that’s when you take a step back and siege the place from afar when they’re bunkered in like that. Now if your men run to ram the gate with their face instead of listening to orders to stand back and catapult/treb it, then that’s a different issue altogether.

Do you honestly think I was speaking for myself? ULTD doesn’t mindlessly throw ourselves at anything. What I was referring to we’re things we’ve defended from. With 10-12 people have the majority on arrow carts we have successfuly defended a keep with all walls and doors down. It’s a lot of fun, don’t get me wrong, that’s what we live for, but that kind of stuff takes tactics.

For a group with a larger pressence have a few people hold a door with arrow carts while zerging the map with the rest, THAT’s the issue. That what we do with a few people, we do to save our locations and maintain points. The fact that larger, more heavily populated servers can do the same thing while backcapping half the map… that’s the problem.

Thus simplest solution is nerfbat the Arrow Carts or get rid of them.

Darxio.5672:

You could always, oh I don’t know, break the wall or gate out of the AC’s range if they’re turtling with carts. Simple as that if you don’t want to bring in the non-personnel(golems) to deal with the anti-personnel fire.

And just because maybe you can’t hit it, doesn’t mean your other allies can’t. Barrage and Meteor Shower can do amazing things to well placed siege(as can your own arrow carts, or even ballistas).

I understand mass amounts of well-placed arrow carts suck to be up against, but that’s when you take a step back and siege the place from afar when they’re bunkered in like that. Now if your men run to ram the gate with their face instead of listening to orders to stand back and catapult/treb it, then that’s a different issue altogether.

That’s the issue though bud, that we HAVE to step back and Cata/Treb EVERYTHING now. There’s almost no reason to carry Rams.

Remove arrow carts? lol
QQ-ers these days….

What’s next?
Remove treb?
Remove ram?
Remove cat?
Remove ballista?
Nerf this?
Nerf that?

(inserts whatever you want to remove or nerf here)

Oh, and by the way, siege weaponry has their place on the offensive too.

Did you know that Ballistas can take out far-away siege placed on cliffs and towers with Shatter Bolt? Even if it only hits the wall below it? Explosions radiate through terrain, after all, and Shatter Bolt is no exception.

Arrow Carts can also be used offensively to take out arrow carts and siege on walls too. For example, that treb spot that shoots down Lake tower from the Hills keep? Arrow Cart it, it’s not invincible.

Catapults and Trebs can also be used to take out siege on walls if needed. They’re not just for walls. Place it right the first time and you’ll be able to hit every spot of the tower when needed to destroy anything that many pop up.

Behind-the-door Catapult giving you the blues? Get your own arrow cart on it since they ignore terrain. Oh, place it on an angle and away from the door a bit so the catapult doesn’t just shoot over the door and nail you, or at the door to nail you if you’re too close.

And seriously, where are your teammates to support you on offense? Swirling winds to block those rangers shooting you while you do your siege work! Smoke screen too! Heck, those two block catapult, ballista and treb shots too! Get a guardian to drop some bubbles on you as well, especially sanctuary. No support means your team was never serious to begin with.

It all comes down to discipline. Either you have it or you don’t. Don’t blame the siege.

PS: And Rams are archaic. They’re for non-reinforced gates, and if that is the case the tower is not upgraded and thus not going to be well defended. If you want to take out an upgraded, defended tower, why do you want to use rams? That’s like trying to use a hand shovel to dig the Panama Canal, you CAN do it but there are better tools for the job.

Daedalus.3954:

That’s the issue though bud, that we HAVE to step back and Cata/Treb EVERYTHING now. There’s almost no reason to carry Rams.

Sounds like a good thing to me.

This is how siege warfare progresses when there is a defense being put up. Lets say they show up late to the fight, the defenders.

-Invaders show up to fully upgraded tower, no defenders. Start breaking cannons and oil. Oil breaks and drops 3 rams. Lets say they get built. They start ramming.
-Defenders show up and get inside successfully while the enemy was making the rams and was distracted by other defenders dying. They make a catapult behind the gate and start making arrow carts.
-Catapult finishes and starts knocking enemies away from the rams, slowing down progress. (You can still ram when there are catas, however. They only inconvenience you by knocking you off it).
-Arrow carts start finishing and begin to push enemies away(we will pretend they are smart on both sides so they don’t just go suicide). Some invaders begin to shoot down arrow carts with cluster bomb and barrage, but the majority get pushed back from the rams.
-Rams get destroyed. Tower still has about 480/700 supplies and gate is at 80% thanks to repairs.
-Invaders fall back and start dropping 2 catapults outside of arrow cart range, facing 2 destructible walls/gate.
-One catapult print dies to an arrow cart JUST in range.
-Other catapult print dies to the mortar on the tower.
-3-4 invaders go destroy mortar.
-Invaders throw down 2-3 more catapults. They build them. Ballista might go up next to them to protect them too.
-Defenders get a second, better positioned catapult up to take out the catapults. Defenders keep making arrow carts while some invaders keep attacking the gate. If they stop shooting with the arrow carts, rams WILL go up, after all.
-Catapults eventually go down. Fortified walls are at 80% and tower supplies at about 220/700.
-Enemies back up further. Now it’s Treb time. Treb print goes up far away from the catapult. Mortar might hit it, but it’s still down, and probably at least one invader is making sure it stays down.
-Defenders make a counter treb and take it out while still beating down attackers at the gate. Supplies are at about 60/700
-Attackers make a treb JUST in range of one specific wall and JUST out of range of any possible counter-treb from defender walls.
-Defenders now are forced to sally out to take out the treb, or have its walls broken. Supplies is used for repairs and building a few more defenses. Some defenders run supplies from nearby keeps with waypoints to buy some time.
-Invaders make ballistas to guard the treb. More trebs go up in the area to speed up the trebbing of the wall.

At this point, it’s only a matter of time. As long as the invading force denies the defender yaks(which I have presumed they did this entire time), the tower will eventually fall, though it’s never a quick fight.

When golems are not in the equation(and they typically are not when towers are well defended unless in extremely large quantities), it plays out like this very often. Every siege weapon has a purpose in a siege, and when one checks the other, another comes into play. And so on and so on.

Kolisch.4691:

In the spirit of the thread starter’s apparent intention, I propose we just do away with defensive structures and points, siege weapons, and the whole map. Put everyone in a cage and let them rumble it out.

I know you were being sarcastic but i gotta say……i would totally play that!

If only there were some sort of indication that an arrow cart, or any siege for that matter, were firing at a particular location…

Lavath.8924:

If only there were some sort of indication that an arrow cart, or any siege for that matter, were firing at a particular location…

I agree… But then again after being on a treb for 2-3 hours last night and occasionally firing diseased cows.. It’s kind of funny at how many kills you can get while people stand in the green gas.

remove arrow carts

Astry.9476:

Lavath.8924:

If only there were some sort of indication that an arrow cart, or any siege for that matter, were firing at a particular location…

I agree… But then again after being on a treb for 2-3 hours last night and occasionally firing diseased cows.. It’s kind of funny at how many kills you can get while people stand in the green gas.

Trebs I can kinda get. I mean, if you’re at the location a treb is going to hit, you are probably more focused on the kids knocking down your door/wall then looking at the fireball in the sky and doing some quick geometry to see if you’re about to get screwed. Then again, the first time you get rocked by a massive explosion… maybe it’s a good indicator that your present location is no longer a safe place to stand.

Replace arrow carts with kitten launchers. They shoot kitten all over the place to demoralize invaders.

Whether or not I actually typed kitten is left up to your imagination.

I think they should remove keeps, supply camps and towers so we will just have quaggan camps and supply camps to take.

On a serious note how can someone create such a stupid thread >.<

LegoTechnic.5910:

Replace arrow carts with kitten launchers. They shoot kitten all over the place to demoralize invaders.

Whether or not I actually typed kitten is left up to your imagination.

You obviously didn’t type kitten, because in no world ever would kittens be demoralizing.

IMO i think keeps and Forts are way to easy to take anyway .

on a quiet night you only need 5 people to take bay or hills on any map.

katniss.6735:

Thread going according to plan.

Time to nerf forums!

Jamaz.9837:

Please remove gates as well.

^What he said,,, and while we’re at it why dont we just bring back Ursan Blessing and allow it to be used in WvW, that would be cool. Quenta, I realize this may be a foreign concept to you considering the server that you are on but arrow carts provide balance when it’s 5 players vs a zerg and people are forced to defend their kitten.

Quenta.2978:

Let’s be honest here: they are still to powerful.

Nerf them or get rid of them. Make sieges more fun and competitive.

This is comedy Gold, great troll OP, I needed a good laugh while at work.

Also might consider removing the walls around keeps and towers they are TO HARD to take down.

Krakah.3582:

Quenta.2978:

Let’s be honest here: they are still to powerful.

Nerf them or get rid of them. Make sieges more fun and competitive.

This is comedy Gold, great troll OP, I needed a good laugh while at work.

Yea, the title and the first post gave me a good laugh while at work lol

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

katniss.6735:

Thread going according to plan.

Time to nerf forums!

Yes please.
Forum is too OP.
Some lulz topics on the forum made me rofl at work that might make my coworkers wonder what’s going on with me.

So, please nerf forum ASAP.
Even better, remove forum for its OP-ness.

They can’t remove them because the wheels don’t work. They’d have to get rid of that bug before they can remove them.

Daedalus.3954:

Left unchecked? How about the only peice of anti-personnel siege that can be placed in a location that cannot be destroyed? Making them a bit too ridiculous.

Where are these magical places that exist in every tower?

Darxio.5672:

Behind-the-door Catapult giving you the blues? Get your own arrow cart on it since they ignore terrain. Oh, place it on an angle and away from the door a bit so the catapult doesn’t just shoot over the door and nail you, or at the door to nail you if you’re too close.

How is an arrow cart to legitimately hit the center of a courtyard behind the door where catapults are normally placed? I see this happening daily now, but I’m pretty sure the operators are using camera hacks.

Jamaz.9837:

Please remove gates as well.

Haha…I like it. But not surprised someone found something else to complain about. There is nothing over powered about the arrow carts. Just play the game and stop whinning.

crystalpink.2487:

Remove arrow carts? lol
QQ-ers these days….

What’s next?
Remove treb?
Remove ram?
Remove cat?
Remove ballista?
Nerf this?
Nerf that?

(inserts whatever you want to remove or nerf here)

Nerf gate and wall health

The fact that numerous persons here are not aware of the fact that there are locations where arrowcarts cannot be killed without the use of a treb is pretty amazing. By all means, please continue.

Gao Gao.4973:

The fact that numerous persons here are not aware of the fact that there are locations where arrowcarts cannot be killed without the use of a treb is pretty amazing. By all means, please continue.

stating things like this and not explaining doesn’t make your case for you.

if there is a place then show us where. otherwise we have to assume you are lying, misinformed, or do not understand how to kill the carts.

Yeah but there are locations where trebs can be placed that no one can reach unless the keep/tower is taken… Considering Arrow Carts only do damage to players and don’t have the range or power to destroy another keeps walls then urrrr thas a silly argument. You don’t like the placement of siege that you can’t destroy, then get a group together and go “oi zerg, there be siege I don’t like… come knock down this door/wall”

Arrow carts for an outmanned server are integral and can often be lifesavers until the enemy fomulates another plan :P

I love all the “just use trebs” going on here

As if 3 to 4 eles dont sit on top of the siege and spam focus.

Quenta.2978:

Let’s be honest here: they are still to powerful.

Nerf them or get rid of them. Make sieges more fun and competitive.

Or simply learn how to play WvW Siege… Arrow carts are really easy to take out and don’t have that great of a range. If you are stupid enough to stand there attacking a door with melee and get dropped by an arrow cart well that’s just Darwinism in action.

You do realize you can setup your own arrow carts when attacking something? You can also use several other Siege options that have a much better range. If 2 players on arrow carts are stopping you dead in your tracks I would venture to say that your problem is much deeper.

I am sorry that WvW siege seems to be baffling you, but I am fairly sure they are putting out a “Guild Wars 2 Siege for Dummies” here in the next few months perhaps you should reserve your copy now.

Astry.9476:

Yep, 3 well placed arrow carts can scramble a zerg pretty effectively.

Working as intended =P

Gao Gao.4973:

The fact that numerous persons here are not aware of the fact that there are locations where arrowcarts cannot be killed without the use of a treb is pretty amazing. By all means, please continue.

Are there any such locations that can hit a catapult deployed an appropriate distance away from the keep or tower, though?

Being able to occasionally force your opponents to build something other than rams really isn’t that big of a problem.