Guild Wars 2

I’m all for the removal of PvD. The only way a tower/keep should flip should be by actually siege. I’ve seen a whole map flipped (fully upgraded) by mostly PvD that took maybe 1hr max. Mind was off hours for us so they greatly outnumbered the defenders but i do not think I saw more then 5rams over the whole map flip.

I’m not sure PvD should completely be removed; I’m more in favor of a further decrease in PvD damage. One of my biggest issues with WvW is the amount of damage a player can do to a door and also through a door. At the moment it is impossible to repair a gate that is being zerged down unless you feel like dying a quick death while all 5-10 people defending can do nothing but watch. With the removal/reduction of PvD, players will actually be able to make use of the repair option that seems to be there just to taunt you.

Yeah I agree, player damage should be nerfed, even more on the reinforced gates. They are made of kitten steel, in case no one noticed. Or at least be able to repair without downing instantly.

Dodforer.2470:

MiLkZz.4789:

If this idea gets implemented you will lose all the top guilds. They will move to a game that has PvP, they wouldn’t care how crappy their graphics are, as long as it has decent PvP.

Looks like Anet decided that PvP doesn’t belong in WvW, character skill should be used on mobs not players. WvW should be siege only they say. This is plain boring and requires no skill. It will become like chess with good graphics. And I don’t like to play chess, I like something that requires fast thinking, reflexes and good hand-eye coordination.

Then go play a FPS….

I do play FPS, and I recently start playing them more again. Atleast real skill is required for those games and it has something called action too.

MiLkZz.4789:

Dodforer.2470:

MiLkZz.4789:

If this idea gets implemented you will lose all the top guilds. They will move to a game that has PvP, they wouldn’t care how crappy their graphics are, as long as it has decent PvP.

Looks like Anet decided that PvP doesn’t belong in WvW, character skill should be used on mobs not players. WvW should be siege only they say. This is plain boring and requires no skill. It will become like chess with good graphics. And I don’t like to play chess, I like something that requires fast thinking, reflexes and good hand-eye coordination.

Then go play a FPS….

I do play FPS, and I recently start playing them more again. Atleast real skill is required for those games and it has something called action too.

So, your idea of skill is being able to auto attack to kill a keep door.

MiLkZz.4789:

Dodforer.2470:

MiLkZz.4789:

If this idea gets implemented you will lose all the top guilds. They will move to a game that has PvP, they wouldn’t care how crappy their graphics are, as long as it has decent PvP.

Looks like Anet decided that PvP doesn’t belong in WvW, character skill should be used on mobs not players. WvW should be siege only they say. This is plain boring and requires no skill. It will become like chess with good graphics. And I don’t like to play chess, I like something that requires fast thinking, reflexes and good hand-eye coordination.

Then go play a FPS….

I do play FPS, and I recently start playing them more again. Atleast real skill is required for those games and it has something called action too.

Hey you seem like a pretty good player, I am just going to shamelessly ask you right here for some help.

Recently I have been doing more and more WvW with my guild, and I really do enjoy it. However there are some things I am having issues with. The issues stem from when we are laying siege to keeps, towers etc. Usually we put down rams and such, but with the arrow cart buff we have more and more often found ourselves having to auto attack the doors down. To me this seems to require a lot of fast thinking, reflexes and good hand-eye coordination. For example I sometimes have to carefully mouse over the gate before I target it since I might be standing at a weird angle, and this can take valuable time from our karma train. Do you know where I can practice these skills? Any help would be much appreciated.

Thank you!

PvDoor gives me nostalgia from beta, keep it in please

Yes this would be a great change if only siege did dmg to doors just like walls. Also dmg not going throu doors both ways would be great so u could atleast repair.

Disagree. Every so often we get really close to taking a door down when a ram or cata is destroyed. 5-10 people can finish the job without having to leave, resupply, and start all over.

It’s realistic enough. A door that is that damaged should be able to be broken into with weapons.

Nikked.7365:

Disagree. Every so often we get really close to taking a door down when a ram or cata is destroyed. 5-10 people can finish the job without having to leave, resupply, and start all over.

It’s realistic enough. A door that is that damaged should be able to be broken into with weapons.

Well that is a good point. I think damage should be reduced. And probably completely removed from a t2 gate

Gab Superstar.4059:

AC damage to siege will be nerfed, so not sure why people are complaining about that.

Other than that, I agree with OP to some extent. The suggestion is a step in the right direction but perhaps allowing people to damage a door once it is below 10% health would be a better solution.

MiLkZz.4789:

Counter-intuitive? Shouldn’t be possible? Ever heard of an axe?

As far I have seen, the door are made out of wood and not metal. And I think you an cut wood.

Johnny didn’t had troubles with it: http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Books/Pix/pictures/2009/01/07/shining460.gif

Reinforced gates are metal plated as far as I can tell.

The correct answer is, “We hurl fireballs, teleport, and resurrect from the dead.”

I’m pretty sure we can stop arguing reality now…

Redscope.6215:

Gab Superstar.4059:

AC damage to siege will be nerfed, so not sure why people are complaining about that.

Other than that, I agree with OP to some extent. The suggestion is a step in the right direction but perhaps allowing people to damage a door once it is below 10% health would be a better solution.

MiLkZz.4789:

Counter-intuitive? Shouldn’t be possible? Ever heard of an axe?

As far I have seen, the door are made out of wood and not metal. And I think you an cut wood.

Johnny didn’t had troubles with it: http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Books/Pix/pictures/2009/01/07/shining460.gif

Reinforced gates are metal plated as far as I can tell.

The correct answer is, “We hurl fireballs, teleport, and resurrect from the dead.”

I’m pretty sure we can stop arguing reality now…

While I kind of see your point, just because a world has magic in it doesn’t mean the realistic parts of it shouldn’t confine to realism. It’s not like Arena Net came up with the concept of fire, axes and wooden doors after all.

Compromise:

Remove PvDoor when an Tower/Keeps Gate is upgraded completely.
Non-upgraded Gates should be susceptible to a good player thrashing.

If you don’t put the resources into what you own/have conquered then you don’t deserve to keep it easily.

BUT, I also agree that Defenders should not be able to attack through an upgraded Gate as well.
ACs need to do way less damage to Flame Rams and their operators.
Give Oil and their operator more resistance to damage to compensate for the ACs not doing as much damage to Rams. Make it a little more difficult to get those Rams in place by doing so.
Shorten the range back on the ACs, or Make Cata, Treb and Ballistae and their operators also more resistant to damage from ACs
Lengthen the CD on ACs #1 a bit.

Edit: I for one would spend more money on upgrades to structures if I knew that a traveling band of minstrels with daggers couldn’t hack their way in and flip it while I was sleeping.

Edit#2: As far as damaged doors being able to be completed by players hacking at them… I would agree that if a gate was brought to 10 – 15% then it could receive damage from players, but maybe less than previously taken.

Daemonne.5018:

Compromise:

Remove PvDoor when an Tower/Keeps Gate is upgraded completely.
Non-upgraded Gates should be susceptible to a good player thrashing.

If you don’t put the resources into what you own/have conquered then you don’t deserve to keep it easily.

BUT, I also agree that Defenders should not be able to attack through an upgraded Gate as well.
ACs need to do way less damage to Flame Rams and their operators.
Give Oil and their operator more resistance to damage to compensate for the ACs not doing as much damage to Rams. Make it a little more difficult to get those Rams in place by doing so.
Shorten the range back on the ACs, or Make Cata, Treb and Ballistae and their operators also more resistant to damage from ACs
Lengthen the CD on ACs #1 a bit.

Daeomonne ninja’d me by literally one minute; I was going to suggest something similar (actually, I already did about 1 month ago). My compromise would be one of two suggestions. Either:

1) Once a gate has been upgraded to “Reinforced” status, players can no longer damage a gate with weapon and utility skills.

OR

2) Gates can be damaged by player weapon and utility skills at the current rate. A Reinforced Gate reduces that damage by some percentage (50% to 75% are my two suggestions). A Fortified Keep’s or Fortified Tower’s gate can not be damaged by player weapon and utility skills at all.

Implementing a compromise such as I or Daeomonne have suggested now creates a bit of tension and challenge. It becomes a race against time to see who will win that race at a particular fortification; the defenders trying to upgrade their keep or tower or the attackers who are trying to break in before the upgrades are completed. Neither side can afford to be complacent any longer if they place any value on the WvWvW points game. If you want points (which translates into maintaining your server’s rank and tier position), now players are going to have to work for them rather than lazily zerging around the map or not bothering to upgrade anything.

I hope this suggestion hasn’t been forgotten, because it is still a valid issue and deserves to be fixed.

Remove siege, leave PVDOOR, or remove siege and doors….Anything that encourages more fights and less siegemonkeys: sign me up.

One could simply remove the aoe cap. PVDOOR exist simply because 50-80 people standing at the door is relative safe from aoe.

AoE cap on siege is 50, though.

Just remove the doors and have some good old players vs players fighting it out, remove the walls aswell for that matter…

Everyone has the option to not take the keeps, and stand out in the field doing /beckon.

Change player aoe from 5 to say 40, and zergs would have to change in how they operates. Siege aoe can only do so much.

Anyone ever played Shadowbane? In shadowbane, in order to hurt a structure, players would need to use siege equipment just like here. However, if a player wanted to harm a structure themselves, they would need to equip hand-held siege weapons. Hammers, flaming arrows, etc. These weapons did great damage to structures but barely hurt players at all. This put the players at risk because they needed to be defended from enemy players just like siege because they couldn’t defend themselves.

The same thing should happen here. Hand-held siege weapons should need to be equipped here. They would take up all 4 weapon slots so you couldn’t just swap to your other weapon when enemies showed up. This way players actually had some kind of risk when meleeing down a door. If they didn’t have adequate scouts and the enemy zerg found them before they had time to equip their normal weapons, they didn’t stand a chance.

If this was done here, it would help slow things down and put more accountability on the players themselves.

+1 to OP

15char

This thread has popped up a lot of times. Some agree, some don’t. A couple solutions would be decrease the amount of damage they can do or have a difference between whether a player can attack a reinforced/unreinforced door. The problem is how the game works and you got to balance it on both sides. Personally I am on a lower server so i don’t see this as much.

Allow siege useage only in Keeps/While Outmanned. Make gates PvD only because it will promote fights.

Agree.
Who wants the pvd is the classic karmatrainzergscrap.
Who wants no doors.. well go into the mist and cry for a better spvp.

Also, where are the tier 3 doors?

I have to disagree with the OP. If you can damage other wooden objects in the game you should be able damage gates. However I feel that there NEEDS to be a defense option for those that are in the tower/keep. Seeing as we have siege might, and the various masteries, the counter to his should also be implemented in the form of tower/keep wall/door strength. For every point the player(s) but into this mastery the walls/gates become stronger by a percentage when repaired depending on rank. Also while they remain within (or visit in the case of an attack) the structure it should be given a bonus against attacks seeing as the ranks would show they know what to shore up when needed even without supply. This has been implemented already in the form of structural damage being applied by rams and as a counter could work and give players a way to defend that they don’t have currently.

How about – Double the HP of the doors, increase damage of siege. (maybe 1.5- 1.3)

The doors are sturdier, siege is more useful offense play and defensively. and If you get the door down to 10-15% percent – but your siege got taken out….if you have the numbers it’s a good economic choice to have players group up and rush the door instead of building siege.

I liked someone else’s suggestion of held siege weapons aswell. Likely cost you 1 supply. Throw oil at the door and others can shoot fire arrows at it causing structural weakness (and maybe a weak burning).

I agree, players should not be able to damage doors with player abilities. Leave the sieging to the siege, and the killing to the killers.

Belorn.2659:

One could simply remove the aoe cap. PVDOOR exist simply because 50-80 people standing at the door is relative safe from aoe.

One does not simply remove…. nevermind

This thread was a good read lol.

Simply remove it, with rams vulnerable stacks its even worse, cant dmg a wall so why a gate?

100% agree with the OP. I also like how everyone here is either in agreement with the proposal, or at least suggesting improvements to it. I also enjoy how everyone against it is immediately shut down with logical, well thought out counter-arguments. The real GW2 community knows what it wants.

You guys are forgetting that WvW is supposed to be casual and not a serious end game. The list is way too long to cover but almost every change to WvW has been to benefit a quicker cap of structures to get those rewards.

You guys should go and watch the latest Dev and QA video and you will get a better perspective of how casual the WvW development is. After you watch it and then accept that your hopes of a serious WvW future are not going to happen it makes it easier to watch PvDoor. It’s only going to get easier to cap things if they stay with their current “MO”. IMO the WvW team isn’t serious enough to understand how their changes effect the overall battle in the end. Which is partly due to the fact they don’t have the time to play it as often as we do.

I fully hope they will allow a test server in the future so the community of players can help evaluate updates before they are released. Would slow down content a lot but overall I think it would create a better game in the end.

I completely agree with OP. PvDoor needs to go. So does multiple arrows from AC, it should take 20s to reload it, because face it, no one can reload an AC like that in seconds, and AC fire shouldnt go through walls. The cannons shouldn’t be turnable either, that makes no sense! Has anyone at ANet ever touched a real cannon? I mean, it just makes no sense!

We should also remove magic and undead. Those don’t exist in real life either. If you’re gonna have Tequatl, why can’t necros tame it and take it over to defend their BGs as Teq. Just MY necro though, pfft, I wouldn’t want a fair fight! I mean, come on, the class controls undead and stuff, but cant raise zombies and use undead dragons? Just remove that class, its pointless!

Edit: I forgot, Rams should be carried by players and pushed onto doors, if 1 player fails to run at the right time, the ram should fall on them and do damage. However, it should have its damage increased to like take 3 hits for a regular door to fall.