Remove WvW Linking - Give Us Back Our Servers

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Posted by: HazyDaisy.4107

HazyDaisy.4107

I’m kind of tired of people that never stepped foot on my home server before linking saying it was a ghost town. The populations may have not been nonstop fry your computer zerg worthy, and sure, there were almost always imbalances, but some of us actually liked the moments of guaranteed down time.

Don’t get me wrong, big fights are ok (in moderation) but I’m rather sick of logging in, looking at the dailies and upon entering wvw and hoping for some peace amd relaxing, instead seeing 3 sets of OJs in 2 or more areas of the map.

Sorrows Furnace
[HaHa] Hazardous Hallucination

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Posted by: atheria.2837

atheria.2837

Truly you guys should read the posts here.. at least a couple of them. Since this new PIP system the populations have exploded. Queues are not uncommon and frankly splitting it all back up again would open the door to more of these people that want to come in but decide not to a lot of prime time because of the queues.

It’s NOT like it was before the linking.

NA T1 server here, and except for reset there is generally 1 BL plus EBG queued through the rest of the days, and generally that BL queue is less than 10. This whole queue thing you speak of isn’t a problem on YB, and I imagine it’s really not that much of a problem outside of BG.

ANet has allowed players to vote on permanency of linking, and if I remember right it was a pretty heavy majority that wanted linking to continue. Those of you that want to blow the system up are most likely sitting on servers that might have one or two major WvW guilds during NA. What about servers that have no major WvW guilds left? How fun would WvW be for them?

You are on YB and saying there are no queues? No idea why you’d say that because I know otherwise by experience and lately…

I just left YB, you, sir, must not be playing in NA prime time or many other times where there is no room on any BL for any players – queues are huge.

You’re on a host server. Host servers are not the ones who have no name, no presence and no help when one makes most callouts.

Not keeping all IT jobs here is a major reason IT is so bad HERE. 33y IT 10y IT Security

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Posted by: atheria.2837

atheria.2837

I’m kind of tired of people that never stepped foot on my home server before linking saying it was a ghost town. The populations may have not been nonstop fry your computer zerg worthy, and sure, there were almost always imbalances, but some of us actually liked the moments of guaranteed down time.

Don’t get me wrong, big fights are ok (in moderation) but I’m rather sick of logging in, looking at the dailies and upon entering wvw and hoping for some peace amd relaxing, instead seeing 3 sets of OJs in 2 or more areas of the map.

Not only do I agree with your last paragraph, it’s one that Anet should take to heart.

I am playing a lot less WvW now.

As are many.

And this is just the beginning.

We can either get another BL (please no) or we need to unlink. There are no other choices in the long run of the health of WvW.

Not keeping all IT jobs here is a major reason IT is so bad HERE. 33y IT 10y IT Security

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Posted by: Dusty Moon.4382

Dusty Moon.4382

What will happen with unlinking is that lower tiered servers may not have any enemies to fight and will congregate on off hours for enemy servers. This will allow massive k-trains to go unhindered. People forget the reason linking was done in the first place, to prevent this from happening.

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Posted by: Sylvyn.4750

Sylvyn.4750

On the host servers I’ve been on since the rewards patch, TC & NSP, queues have been dropping each week. Reset is crazy, but after that, you end up with only a small queue on EBG the rest of the week. That’s down from the week or two after the patch where there was pretty much a queue on every border as well. Now, we are lucky to get the EBG zerg to help defend home BL T3 keeps because the number of commanders have dropped off as well…usually one in EBG and maybe one or two others bouncing around the various BLs.

Given this trend on at least some of the server groups, we should give it some time for the active population to settle into a more predictable pattern that can then be used to make a more informed decision.

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Posted by: Balthazzarr.1349

Balthazzarr.1349

Sorry, but overall participation increased with linking…

None of you have provided any real evidence or rational arguments to remove linking. Some of you can type until your fingers hurt, but it doesn’t change the stated dev fact that wvw is healthier, in part, due to linking… All in all, it’s pretty irrational to want wvw back in the same failing state it was in before linking…. Makes zero sense and is counterproductive to wanting a more thriving game mode.

I don’t believe that overall participation increased at all. I’ve seen many many people leave WvW and this game because of the linking. The borderlands got more people now because of clumping up the servers but that doesn’t equal more participation.

As stated above here and there, the new PIP system has actually brought new people into WvW… and has caused more and more people to stay in and farm for PIPS. They aren’t “fighting for the land”… a large number don’t care at all about WvW.. just the PIPS.

But, if the servers were returned to their original states WITH the PIP system in place I’m very confident that not only would they do well, but they would do very well as people moved around to places where they could roam/havoc and farm the blazes out of every object in site just to get more pips.

With this new PIP system you don’t even need many people on the bl’s for that. You just need “participation”. Yep it’s flawed… but it definitely would get more participation out of every server!

… just call me … Tim :)

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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

Right now even small servers are being populated due to pip system. Remove the link should be fine. at least for a year.

Remove link, and free pass for transfer pip penalty for a month. This should help spreading population amongst server.

Yes, we can open free transfer, that’s what I used to suggest back then. But now, thinking about it, I don’t think it makes a real difference in long term because…

1. Not enough populations to go to all existing servers
2. Due to overall low population, they will have to lower the max cap further to keep servers equal
3. Due to lower cap, it also force servers to adapt very specific geodemographic otherwise servers will die to attrition due to max cap
4. Geodemographic is not that easily to obtain due to human nature, human want to stack at least 2 guilds per timezone and likewise not enough guilds to spread to all the servers for some timezones
5. The fundamental not-equal server pve population resulting in potential population gain due to events or holidays or random players mood is still not solved

edit:
so is still better to delete all servers and create just enough servers while having a complete new system that designed to tackle balancing that is sustainable

I didn’t mean free transfer. I mean some period of time for transfer and still get pip after transfer. If unlink really happen, This should help small server to have a chance to recruit population or even buy some guild.

For now, Some ppl choose to stick around because of pip penalty after transfer

Then is worse. Human nature is they are more likely to move if is free because people like free things. Furthermore, since you are unlinking and the fact that we don’t have enough to spread across all servers, also accompanied by the geodemographic issue, the chance is unlinking will result in a non-sustainable future is extremely high.

Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Sorry, but overall participation increased with linking…

None of you have provided any real evidence or rational arguments to remove linking. Some of you can type until your fingers hurt, but it doesn’t change the stated dev fact that wvw is healthier, in part, due to linking… All in all, it’s pretty irrational to want wvw back in the same failing state it was in before linking…. Makes zero sense and is counterproductive to wanting a more thriving game mode.

I don’t believe that overall participation increased at all. I’ve seen many many people leave WvW and this game because of the linking. The borderlands got more people now because of clumping up the servers but that doesn’t equal more participation.

As stated above here and there, the new PIP system has actually brought new people into WvW… and has caused more and more people to stay in and farm for PIPS. They aren’t “fighting for the land”… a large number don’t care at all about WvW.. just the PIPS.

But, if the servers were returned to their original states WITH the PIP system in place I’m very confident that not only would they do well, but they would do very well as people moved around to places where they could roam/havoc and farm the blazes out of every object in site just to get more pips.

With this new PIP system you don’t even need many people on the bl’s for that. You just need “participation”. Yep it’s flawed… but it definitely would get more participation out of every server!

Doesn’t matter what anyone believes… I go by the following Dev quote…

“*The week of April 19th we released World Linking and Reward changes in WvW. Since the release we’ve seen an increase in WvW population and participation and we believe we’re moving in the right direction.* We’re here today to ask if you think that World Linking is a positive improvement to the game. As before, we’re looking for 75% of the population voting “Yes” or “No” to agree that World Linking should remain a feature.

Do you believe that the WvW World Linking should be a Guild Wars 2 feature?"

…So to the rest of your post… yeah… both linking and rewards have obviously increased population and participation.

Move on peeps…

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

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Posted by: Balthazzarr.1349

Balthazzarr.1349

Just because someone says it, doesn’t mean it’s true… works for me, and for the devs. They can say what they want.. I can go on what I see with the people I know. At the end of the day, with the new PIP system I still say the servers would do just fine. You can argue against it again and again and it still won’t change the idea that it could work.

What applied then doesn’t necessarily apply now, and so on.

… just call me … Tim :)

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Just because someone says it, doesn’t mean it’s true… works for me, and for the devs. They can say what they want.. I can go on what I see with the people I know. At the end of the day, with the new PIP system I still say the servers would do just fine. You can argue against it again and again and it still won’t change the idea that it could work.

What applied then doesn’t necessarily apply now, and so on.

Ok, so find the dev who made the quote and call him/her a liar and challenge their stats against what you “see” and what “people know”… Id love to see that interaction take place on the forums so start a thread and pm the dev…

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

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Posted by: Brother Dulfite.5793

Brother Dulfite.5793

I’ve said it before and I’ll continue to say it; The only “servers” that should exist are ones where guilds pick to be in them. That way, they get to choose their allies and get used to them (no guesting or random linking nonsense). Oh, your guild leader in your guild and mine are good friends? Oh, you like to do things together in pve and pvp? Well sure, let’s fight for the same world/server/alliance then!

This is how it should have been done years ago when this first came out and STILL should be. There was NOTHING wrong with the alliance system of gw1. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!

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Posted by: Jirayu.5834

Jirayu.5834

Right now even small servers are being populated due to pip system. Remove the link should be fine. at least for a year.

Remove link, and free pass for transfer pip penalty for a month. This should help spreading population amongst server.

Yes, we can open free transfer, that’s what I used to suggest back then. But now, thinking about it, I don’t think it makes a real difference in long term because…

1. Not enough populations to go to all existing servers
2. Due to overall low population, they will have to lower the max cap further to keep servers equal
3. Due to lower cap, it also force servers to adapt very specific geodemographic otherwise servers will die to attrition due to max cap
4. Geodemographic is not that easily to obtain due to human nature, human want to stack at least 2 guilds per timezone and likewise not enough guilds to spread to all the servers for some timezones
5. The fundamental not-equal server pve population resulting in potential population gain due to events or holidays or random players mood is still not solved

edit:
so is still better to delete all servers and create just enough servers while having a complete new system that designed to tackle balancing that is sustainable

I didn’t mean free transfer. I mean some period of time for transfer and still get pip after transfer. If unlink really happen, This should help small server to have a chance to recruit population or even buy some guild.

For now, Some ppl choose to stick around because of pip penalty after transfer

Then is worse. Human nature is they are more likely to move if is free because people like free things. Furthermore, since you are unlinking and the fact that we don’t have enough to spread across all servers, also accompanied by the geodemographic issue, the chance is unlinking will result in a non-sustainable future is extremely high.

I think I never said anything about free transfer …

You still have to pay for transfer. just still get loyalty pip after transfer. This window is only a short time like 2 weeks or a month. and maybe just only for 1 transfer. then you lost loyalty pip after transfer again.

Worst NSP Ranger
Thai Guild Wars 2 Fansite: https://tyria.in.th

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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

Right now even small servers are being populated due to pip system. Remove the link should be fine. at least for a year.

Remove link, and free pass for transfer pip penalty for a month. This should help spreading population amongst server.

Yes, we can open free transfer, that’s what I used to suggest back then. But now, thinking about it, I don’t think it makes a real difference in long term because…

1. Not enough populations to go to all existing servers
2. Due to overall low population, they will have to lower the max cap further to keep servers equal
3. Due to lower cap, it also force servers to adapt very specific geodemographic otherwise servers will die to attrition due to max cap
4. Geodemographic is not that easily to obtain due to human nature, human want to stack at least 2 guilds per timezone and likewise not enough guilds to spread to all the servers for some timezones
5. The fundamental not-equal server pve population resulting in potential population gain due to events or holidays or random players mood is still not solved

edit:
so is still better to delete all servers and create just enough servers while having a complete new system that designed to tackle balancing that is sustainable

I didn’t mean free transfer. I mean some period of time for transfer and still get pip after transfer. If unlink really happen, This should help small server to have a chance to recruit population or even buy some guild.

For now, Some ppl choose to stick around because of pip penalty after transfer

Then is worse. Human nature is they are more likely to move if is free because people like free things. Furthermore, since you are unlinking and the fact that we don’t have enough to spread across all servers, also accompanied by the geodemographic issue, the chance is unlinking will result in a non-sustainable future is extremely high.

I think I never said anything about free transfer …

You still have to pay for transfer. just still get loyalty pip after transfer. This window is only a short time like 2 weeks or a month. and maybe just only for 1 transfer. then you lost loyalty pip after transfer again.

Read again. I said people like free things and you expect people to move while paying thus it is even worse.

Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com

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Posted by: Balthazzarr.1349

Balthazzarr.1349

Just because someone says it, doesn’t mean it’s true… works for me, and for the devs. They can say what they want.. I can go on what I see with the people I know. At the end of the day, with the new PIP system I still say the servers would do just fine. You can argue against it again and again and it still won’t change the idea that it could work.

What applied then doesn’t necessarily apply now, and so on.

Ok, so find the dev who made the quote and call him/her a liar and challenge their stats against what you “see” and what “people know”… Id love to see that interaction take place on the forums so start a thread and pm the dev…

I’m not getting angry or abusive.. let’s keep this friendly.. we can debate without being nasty. They have their stats and that’s all good.. I have what I actually have seen while playing the game. If more pugs came in than xp people left then nice for ANet but not so nice for the folks that really PLAY wvw.

… just call me … Tim :)

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Just because someone says it, doesn’t mean it’s true… works for me, and for the devs. They can say what they want.. I can go on what I see with the people I know. At the end of the day, with the new PIP system I still say the servers would do just fine. You can argue against it again and again and it still won’t change the idea that it could work.

What applied then doesn’t necessarily apply now, and so on.

Ok, so find the dev who made the quote and call him/her a liar and challenge their stats against what you “see” and what “people know”… Id love to see that interaction take place on the forums so start a thread and pm the dev…

I’m not getting angry or abusive.. let’s keep this friendly.. we can debate without being nasty. They have their stats and that’s all good.. I have what I actually have seen while playing the game. If more pugs came in than xp people left then nice for ANet but not so nice for the folks that really PLAY wvw.

I’m not getting angry either… You are basically saying that the devs are misleading the players, and countering that dev statement by your personal speculation.

You counter facts with facts, not assumptions. By all means, you are more than welcome to challenge the devs, but you better have all your stats in order, not just what you “see” and you think others “know”…

Do you know what the player cap per map is?

Do you know what the average amount of overall players per server, on every server, is?

Do you know the total average wvw participation rates for every month this game has been in existence?

Do you have the overall average amounts of wvw players and participation rates pre and post linking?

Do you have any stats with regard to anything wvw related that you can provide a rational counter argument with besides what you assume?

…The answers are that you don’t know any factual stats, so you’re basically calling a dev a liar. And your only argument to remove linking is that you think you, and other players, know better… That counter argument won’t win on any level and certainly won’t be strong enough to convince the devs to remove linking at this stage in the game.

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

(edited by Swagger.1459)

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Just because someone says it, doesn’t mean it’s true… works for me, and for the devs. They can say what they want.. I can go on what I see with the people I know. At the end of the day, with the new PIP system I still say the servers would do just fine. You can argue against it again and again and it still won’t change the idea that it could work.

What applied then doesn’t necessarily apply now, and so on.

Ok, so find the dev who made the quote and call him/her a liar and challenge their stats against what you “see” and what “people know”… Id love to see that interaction take place on the forums so start a thread and pm the dev…

I’m not getting angry or abusive.. let’s keep this friendly.. we can debate without being nasty. They have their stats and that’s all good.. I have what I actually have seen while playing the game. If more pugs came in than xp people left then nice for ANet but not so nice for the folks that really PLAY wvw.

I’m not getting angry either… You are basically saying that the devs are misleading the players, and countering that dev statement by your personal speculation.

You counter facts with facts, not assumptions. By all means, you are more than welcome to challenge the devs, but you better have all your stats in order, not just what you “see” and you think others “know”…

Do you know what the player cap per map is?

Do you know what the average amount of overall players per server, on every server, is?

Do you know the total average wvw participation rates for every month this game has been in existence?

Do you have the overall average amounts of wvw players and participation rates pre and post linking?

Do you have any stats with regard to anything wvw related that you can provide a rational counter argument with besides what you assume?

…The answers are that you don’t know any factual stats, so you’re basically calling a dev a liar. And your only argument to remove linking is that you think you, and other players, know better… That counter argument won’t win on any level and certainly won’t be strong enough to convince the devs to remove linking at this stage in the game.

The dev statement is no more supported by evidence available for review than is the case for the poster you quote.

Two individuals making statements. Neither providing evidence to support their claim.

Yes, you do counter facts with facts, but so far we have only unsupported claims, not established facts from all parties.

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Just because someone says it, doesn’t mean it’s true… works for me, and for the devs. They can say what they want.. I can go on what I see with the people I know. At the end of the day, with the new PIP system I still say the servers would do just fine. You can argue against it again and again and it still won’t change the idea that it could work.

What applied then doesn’t necessarily apply now, and so on.

Ok, so find the dev who made the quote and call him/her a liar and challenge their stats against what you “see” and what “people know”… Id love to see that interaction take place on the forums so start a thread and pm the dev…

I’m not getting angry or abusive.. let’s keep this friendly.. we can debate without being nasty. They have their stats and that’s all good.. I have what I actually have seen while playing the game. If more pugs came in than xp people left then nice for ANet but not so nice for the folks that really PLAY wvw.

I’m not getting angry either… You are basically saying that the devs are misleading the players, and countering that dev statement by your personal speculation.

You counter facts with facts, not assumptions. By all means, you are more than welcome to challenge the devs, but you better have all your stats in order, not just what you “see” and you think others “know”…

Do you know what the player cap per map is?

Do you know what the average amount of overall players per server, on every server, is?

Do you know the total average wvw participation rates for every month this game has been in existence?

Do you have the overall average amounts of wvw players and participation rates pre and post linking?

Do you have any stats with regard to anything wvw related that you can provide a rational counter argument with besides what you assume?

…The answers are that you don’t know any factual stats, so you’re basically calling a dev a liar. And your only argument to remove linking is that you think you, and other players, know better… That counter argument won’t win on any level and certainly won’t be strong enough to convince the devs to remove linking at this stage in the game.

The dev statement is no more supported by evidence available for review than is the case for the poster you quote.

Two individuals making statements. Neither providing evidence to support their claim.

Yes, you do counter facts with facts, but so far we have only unsupported claims, not established facts from all parties.

Or you can ignore the facts…

Dev post from Tyler Bearce…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Additional-World-Linking-Information/first

“We’ve also had a substantial increase in global WvW participation since reward tracks, world linking, and the return of the Alpine borderlands. On top of that, we use a fairly long historical tail on WvW activity level for world population purposes.”

From Reddit.. quote from the polling site…

“The week of April 19th we released World Linking and Reward changes in WvW. Since the release we’ve seen an increase in WvW population and participation and we believe we’re moving in the right direction. We’re here today to ask if you think that World Linking is a positive improvement to the game. As before, we’re looking for 75% of the population voting “Yes” or “No” to agree that World Linking should remain a feature.

Do you believe that the WvW World Linking should be a Guild Wars 2 feature?"

…So please challenge Tyler’s statements and get linking removed. So far you have zero rational counter arguments to remove linking, so you might want to work on that when you bring it up to him and the team.

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

(edited by Swagger.1459)

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Just because someone says it, doesn’t mean it’s true… works for me, and for the devs. They can say what they want.. I can go on what I see with the people I know. At the end of the day, with the new PIP system I still say the servers would do just fine. You can argue against it again and again and it still won’t change the idea that it could work.

What applied then doesn’t necessarily apply now, and so on.

Ok, so find the dev who made the quote and call him/her a liar and challenge their stats against what you “see” and what “people know”… Id love to see that interaction take place on the forums so start a thread and pm the dev…

I’m not getting angry or abusive.. let’s keep this friendly.. we can debate without being nasty. They have their stats and that’s all good.. I have what I actually have seen while playing the game. If more pugs came in than xp people left then nice for ANet but not so nice for the folks that really PLAY wvw.

I’m not getting angry either… You are basically saying that the devs are misleading the players, and countering that dev statement by your personal speculation.

You counter facts with facts, not assumptions. By all means, you are more than welcome to challenge the devs, but you better have all your stats in order, not just what you “see” and you think others “know”…

Do you know what the player cap per map is?

Do you know what the average amount of overall players per server, on every server, is?

Do you know the total average wvw participation rates for every month this game has been in existence?

Do you have the overall average amounts of wvw players and participation rates pre and post linking?

Do you have any stats with regard to anything wvw related that you can provide a rational counter argument with besides what you assume?

…The answers are that you don’t know any factual stats, so you’re basically calling a dev a liar. And your only argument to remove linking is that you think you, and other players, know better… That counter argument won’t win on any level and certainly won’t be strong enough to convince the devs to remove linking at this stage in the game.

The dev statement is no more supported by evidence available for review than is the case for the poster you quote.

Two individuals making statements. Neither providing evidence to support their claim.

Yes, you do counter facts with facts, but so far we have only unsupported claims, not established facts from all parties.

Or you can ignore the facts…

Dev post from Tyler Bearce…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Additional-World-Linking-Information/first

“We’ve also had a substantial increase in global WvW participation since reward tracks, world linking, and the return of the Alpine borderlands. On top of that, we use a fairly long historical tail on WvW activity level for world population purposes.”

From Reddit.. quote from the polling site…

“The week of April 19th we released World Linking and Reward changes in WvW. Since the release we’ve seen an increase in WvW population and participation and we believe we’re moving in the right direction. We’re here today to ask if you think that World Linking is a positive improvement to the game. As before, we’re looking for 75% of the population voting “Yes” or “No” to agree that World Linking should remain a feature.

Do you believe that the WvW World Linking should be a Guild Wars 2 feature?"

…So please challenge Tyler’s statements and get linking removed. So far you have zero rational counter arguments to remove linking, so you might want to work on that when you bring it up to him and the team.

Yes, a statement made by an individual, as I noted previously. Without verifiable data to support it, it is just a claim. “Because I said so,” isnt really a viable argument.

By the way, I am not asking for server linkings to be undone. There are, as with many things, positive and negative aspects to linkings. How one feels about it is likely influenced by how the particular positives and negatives balance for you.

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Just because someone says it, doesn’t mean it’s true… works for me, and for the devs. They can say what they want.. I can go on what I see with the people I know. At the end of the day, with the new PIP system I still say the servers would do just fine. You can argue against it again and again and it still won’t change the idea that it could work.

What applied then doesn’t necessarily apply now, and so on.

Ok, so find the dev who made the quote and call him/her a liar and challenge their stats against what you “see” and what “people know”… Id love to see that interaction take place on the forums so start a thread and pm the dev…

I’m not getting angry or abusive.. let’s keep this friendly.. we can debate without being nasty. They have their stats and that’s all good.. I have what I actually have seen while playing the game. If more pugs came in than xp people left then nice for ANet but not so nice for the folks that really PLAY wvw.

I’m not getting angry either… You are basically saying that the devs are misleading the players, and countering that dev statement by your personal speculation.

You counter facts with facts, not assumptions. By all means, you are more than welcome to challenge the devs, but you better have all your stats in order, not just what you “see” and you think others “know”…

Do you know what the player cap per map is?

Do you know what the average amount of overall players per server, on every server, is?

Do you know the total average wvw participation rates for every month this game has been in existence?

Do you have the overall average amounts of wvw players and participation rates pre and post linking?

Do you have any stats with regard to anything wvw related that you can provide a rational counter argument with besides what you assume?

…The answers are that you don’t know any factual stats, so you’re basically calling a dev a liar. And your only argument to remove linking is that you think you, and other players, know better… That counter argument won’t win on any level and certainly won’t be strong enough to convince the devs to remove linking at this stage in the game.

The dev statement is no more supported by evidence available for review than is the case for the poster you quote.

Two individuals making statements. Neither providing evidence to support their claim.

Yes, you do counter facts with facts, but so far we have only unsupported claims, not established facts from all parties.

Or you can ignore the facts…

Dev post from Tyler Bearce…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Additional-World-Linking-Information/first

“We’ve also had a substantial increase in global WvW participation since reward tracks, world linking, and the return of the Alpine borderlands. On top of that, we use a fairly long historical tail on WvW activity level for world population purposes.”

From Reddit.. quote from the polling site…

“The week of April 19th we released World Linking and Reward changes in WvW. Since the release we’ve seen an increase in WvW population and participation and we believe we’re moving in the right direction. We’re here today to ask if you think that World Linking is a positive improvement to the game. As before, we’re looking for 75% of the population voting “Yes” or “No” to agree that World Linking should remain a feature.

Do you believe that the WvW World Linking should be a Guild Wars 2 feature?"

…So please challenge Tyler’s statements and get linking removed. So far you have zero rational counter arguments to remove linking, so you might want to work on that when you bring it up to him and the team.

Yes, a statement made by an individual, as I noted previously. Without verifiable data to support it, it is just a claim. “Because I said so,” isnt really a viable argument.

By the way, I am not asking for server linkings to be undone. There are, as with many things, positive and negative aspects to linkings. How one feels about it is likely influenced by how the particular positives and negatives balance for you.

Oh, I thought you were the other person when I quoted.

No worries, I get it, but you are missing the overall points I’m trying to make… Thanks for your input though!

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Posted by: shiri.4257

shiri.4257

The GUILD is your identity. focus on that, you will have fun. server pride? there’s probably only 5 people on each server with server pride and 3 of them don’t login when you’re losing. Exception is Magswag, they have about 7.

Pugging is dead. Long live pugging!

I am pug, hear me RAWWRRRR!!

~Kasumei/Machiato
Desert Spectre [VII]-Crystal Desert
“You’re never out of the fight.”

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Posted by: Balthazzarr.1349

Balthazzarr.1349

Just because someone says it, doesn’t mean it’s true… works for me, and for the devs. They can say what they want.. I can go on what I see with the people I know. At the end of the day, with the new PIP system I still say the servers would do just fine. You can argue against it again and again and it still won’t change the idea that it could work.

What applied then doesn’t necessarily apply now, and so on.

Ok, so find the dev who made the quote and call him/her a liar and challenge their stats against what you “see” and what “people know”… Id love to see that interaction take place on the forums so start a thread and pm the dev…

I’m not getting angry or abusive.. let’s keep this friendly.. we can debate without being nasty. They have their stats and that’s all good.. I have what I actually have seen while playing the game. If more pugs came in than xp people left then nice for ANet but not so nice for the folks that really PLAY wvw.

I’m not getting angry either… You are basically saying that the devs are misleading the players, and countering that dev statement by your personal speculation.

You counter facts with facts, not assumptions. By all means, you are more than welcome to challenge the devs, but you better have all your stats in order, not just what you “see” and you think others “know”…

Do you know what the player cap per map is?

Do you know what the average amount of overall players per server, on every server, is?

Do you know the total average wvw participation rates for every month this game has been in existence?

Do you have the overall average amounts of wvw players and participation rates pre and post linking?

Do you have any stats with regard to anything wvw related that you can provide a rational counter argument with besides what you assume?

…The answers are that you don’t know any factual stats, so you’re basically calling a dev a liar. And your only argument to remove linking is that you think you, and other players, know better… That counter argument won’t win on any level and certainly won’t be strong enough to convince the devs to remove linking at this stage in the game.

The dev statement is no more supported by evidence available for review than is the case for the poster you quote.

Two individuals making statements. Neither providing evidence to support their claim.

Yes, you do counter facts with facts, but so far we have only unsupported claims, not established facts from all parties.

Or you can ignore the facts…

Dev post from Tyler Bearce…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Additional-World-Linking-Information/first

“We’ve also had a substantial increase in global WvW participation since reward tracks, world linking, and the return of the Alpine borderlands. On top of that, we use a fairly long historical tail on WvW activity level for world population purposes.”

From Reddit.. quote from the polling site…

“The week of April 19th we released World Linking and Reward changes in WvW. Since the release we’ve seen an increase in WvW population and participation and we believe we’re moving in the right direction. We’re here today to ask if you think that World Linking is a positive improvement to the game. As before, we’re looking for 75% of the population voting “Yes” or “No” to agree that World Linking should remain a feature.

Do you believe that the WvW World Linking should be a Guild Wars 2 feature?"

…So please challenge Tyler’s statements and get linking removed. So far you have zero rational counter arguments to remove linking, so you might want to work on that when you bring it up to him and the team.

I’m willing to agree that the overall stats they have are no doubt real and true. But I will narrow this down and state that for the people THAT I KNOW on my server I definitely saw a marked decrease in wvw activity for quite a while after linking. NO I don’t have numbers and I don’t need them. When I see people I know coming back now that haven’t been in for a while wondering if linking will terminate … well, it is what it is. Overall numbers notwithstanding… our server suffered.. now that this PIP system is in place I see MANY more people playing that I know that had all but stopped. .. and of course new people.

… just call me … Tim :)

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Just because someone says it, doesn’t mean it’s true… works for me, and for the devs. They can say what they want.. I can go on what I see with the people I know. At the end of the day, with the new PIP system I still say the servers would do just fine. You can argue against it again and again and it still won’t change the idea that it could work.

What applied then doesn’t necessarily apply now, and so on.

Ok, so find the dev who made the quote and call him/her a liar and challenge their stats against what you “see” and what “people know”… Id love to see that interaction take place on the forums so start a thread and pm the dev…

I’m not getting angry or abusive.. let’s keep this friendly.. we can debate without being nasty. They have their stats and that’s all good.. I have what I actually have seen while playing the game. If more pugs came in than xp people left then nice for ANet but not so nice for the folks that really PLAY wvw.

I’m not getting angry either… You are basically saying that the devs are misleading the players, and countering that dev statement by your personal speculation.

You counter facts with facts, not assumptions. By all means, you are more than welcome to challenge the devs, but you better have all your stats in order, not just what you “see” and you think others “know”…

Do you know what the player cap per map is?

Do you know what the average amount of overall players per server, on every server, is?

Do you know the total average wvw participation rates for every month this game has been in existence?

Do you have the overall average amounts of wvw players and participation rates pre and post linking?

Do you have any stats with regard to anything wvw related that you can provide a rational counter argument with besides what you assume?

…The answers are that you don’t know any factual stats, so you’re basically calling a dev a liar. And your only argument to remove linking is that you think you, and other players, know better… That counter argument won’t win on any level and certainly won’t be strong enough to convince the devs to remove linking at this stage in the game.

The dev statement is no more supported by evidence available for review than is the case for the poster you quote.

Two individuals making statements. Neither providing evidence to support their claim.

Yes, you do counter facts with facts, but so far we have only unsupported claims, not established facts from all parties.

Or you can ignore the facts…

Dev post from Tyler Bearce…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Additional-World-Linking-Information/first

“We’ve also had a substantial increase in global WvW participation since reward tracks, world linking, and the return of the Alpine borderlands. On top of that, we use a fairly long historical tail on WvW activity level for world population purposes.”

From Reddit.. quote from the polling site…

“The week of April 19th we released World Linking and Reward changes in WvW. Since the release we’ve seen an increase in WvW population and participation and we believe we’re moving in the right direction. We’re here today to ask if you think that World Linking is a positive improvement to the game. As before, we’re looking for 75% of the population voting “Yes” or “No” to agree that World Linking should remain a feature.

Do you believe that the WvW World Linking should be a Guild Wars 2 feature?"

…So please challenge Tyler’s statements and get linking removed. So far you have zero rational counter arguments to remove linking, so you might want to work on that when you bring it up to him and the team.

I’m willing to agree that the overall stats they have are no doubt real and true. But I will narrow this down and state that for the people THAT I KNOW on my server I definitely saw a marked decrease in wvw activity for quite a while after linking. NO I don’t have numbers and I don’t need them. When I see people I know coming back now that haven’t been in for a while wondering if linking will terminate … well, it is what it is. Overall numbers notwithstanding… our server suffered.. now that this PIP system is in place I see MANY more people playing that I know that had all but stopped. .. and of course new people.

That’s good news! Now we have a better understanding! Thank you!

So… We can’t make huge judgement calls just from what we see on 1 server. Have to look at the big picture and the various systems that drive wvw to a better place than before. Linking, reward tracks, skirmishes, improved rewards… are all contributing factors to the growth of WvW… It’s all a much better “formula” than before, so it’s not rational to remove anything that’s netting positive results for this game mode.

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Posted by: atheria.2837

atheria.2837

What will happen with unlinking is that lower tiered servers may not have any enemies to fight and will congregate on off hours for enemy servers. This will allow massive k-trains to go unhindered. People forget the reason linking was done in the first place, to prevent this from happening.

I don’t know what server you are on or if you are linked or host but you’re not speaking for many who stay on our servers – having one account, not many.

There are more players since the addition of a legendary, so I believe you are very wrong about such a disaster happening if the servers were unlinked.

We can either have a new map or we can unlink the servers – the latter gives us our server names and identity back – the other just makes more of a mess but takes the pressure off during prime time.

I believe in our servers, our name and our identities.

Linked servers are not respected nor given communication the same way as those on the host server.

That in and of itself should be reason enough to unlink all servers.

Not keeping all IT jobs here is a major reason IT is so bad HERE. 33y IT 10y IT Security

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Posted by: Ben K.6238

Ben K.6238

Ignoring that the scoring system has made a hash of server ratings, total warscore in lopsided matches featuring a T1 and T4 server is far closer than it ever would have been pre-linkings.

Removing linkings at this point would be a mistake because you’d bring back the lopsided matches in T2, T3 and T4, particularly with 1-up 1-down in place. The coincident population drop also turns into a vicious cycle – when players don’t see other people to play with, they stop playing themselves. Spreading population thinner thus accelerates the decline of WvW.

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Posted by: atheria.2837

atheria.2837

Just because someone says it, doesn’t mean it’s true… works for me, and for the devs. They can say what they want.. I can go on what I see with the people I know. At the end of the day, with the new PIP system I still say the servers would do just fine. You can argue against it again and again and it still won’t change the idea that it could work.

What applied then doesn’t necessarily apply now, and so on.

Ok, so find the dev who made the quote and call him/her a liar and challenge their stats against what you “see” and what “people know”… Id love to see that interaction take place on the forums so start a thread and pm the dev…

I’m not getting angry or abusive.. let’s keep this friendly.. we can debate without being nasty. They have their stats and that’s all good.. I have what I actually have seen while playing the game. If more pugs came in than xp people left then nice for ANet but not so nice for the folks that really PLAY wvw.

I’m not getting angry either… You are basically saying that the devs are misleading the players, and countering that dev statement by your personal speculation.

You counter facts with facts, not assumptions. By all means, you are more than welcome to challenge the devs, but you better have all your stats in order, not just what you “see” and you think others “know”…

Do you know what the player cap per map is?

Do you know what the average amount of overall players per server, on every server, is?

Do you know the total average wvw participation rates for every month this game has been in existence?

Do you have the overall average amounts of wvw players and participation rates pre and post linking?

Do you have any stats with regard to anything wvw related that you can provide a rational counter argument with besides what you assume?

…The answers are that you don’t know any factual stats, so you’re basically calling a dev a liar. And your only argument to remove linking is that you think you, and other players, know better… That counter argument won’t win on any level and certainly won’t be strong enough to convince the devs to remove linking at this stage in the game.

The dev statement is no more supported by evidence available for review than is the case for the poster you quote.

Two individuals making statements. Neither providing evidence to support their claim.

Yes, you do counter facts with facts, but so far we have only unsupported claims, not established facts from all parties.

Or you can ignore the facts…

Dev post from Tyler Bearce…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Additional-World-Linking-Information/first

“We’ve also had a substantial increase in global WvW participation since reward tracks, world linking, and the return of the Alpine borderlands. On top of that, we use a fairly long historical tail on WvW activity level for world population purposes.”

From Reddit.. quote from the polling site…

“The week of April 19th we released World Linking and Reward changes in WvW. Since the release we’ve seen an increase in WvW population and participation and we believe we’re moving in the right direction. We’re here today to ask if you think that World Linking is a positive improvement to the game. As before, we’re looking for 75% of the population voting “Yes” or “No” to agree that World Linking should remain a feature.

Do you believe that the WvW World Linking should be a Guild Wars 2 feature?"

…So please challenge Tyler’s statements and get linking removed. So far you have zero rational counter arguments to remove linking, so you might want to work on that when you bring it up to him and the team.

World linking had nothing to do with participation going up, unless you count the mercenaries paid to be on larger servers – that is the only ‘uptick’ from linking and that’s heinous abuse of real WvW’ers.

Adding a Legendary, that raised the population incredibly.

World Linking is still listed as a ‘beta test’. Not my words, theirs.

Linking is a destroyer of the game.

Adding a Legendary and tickets added value.

Linking needs to GO.

Not keeping all IT jobs here is a major reason IT is so bad HERE. 33y IT 10y IT Security

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Posted by: atheria.2837

atheria.2837

Just because someone says it, doesn’t mean it’s true… works for me, and for the devs. They can say what they want.. I can go on what I see with the people I know. At the end of the day, with the new PIP system I still say the servers would do just fine. You can argue against it again and again and it still won’t change the idea that it could work.

What applied then doesn’t necessarily apply now, and so on.

Ok, so find the dev who made the quote and call him/her a liar and challenge their stats against what you “see” and what “people know”… Id love to see that interaction take place on the forums so start a thread and pm the dev…

I’m not getting angry or abusive.. let’s keep this friendly.. we can debate without being nasty. They have their stats and that’s all good.. I have what I actually have seen while playing the game. If more pugs came in than xp people left then nice for ANet but not so nice for the folks that really PLAY wvw.

I’m not getting angry either… You are basically saying that the devs are misleading the players, and countering that dev statement by your personal speculation.

You counter facts with facts, not assumptions. By all means, you are more than welcome to challenge the devs, but you better have all your stats in order, not just what you “see” and you think others “know”…

Do you know what the player cap per map is?

Do you know what the average amount of overall players per server, on every server, is?

Do you know the total average wvw participation rates for every month this game has been in existence?

Do you have the overall average amounts of wvw players and participation rates pre and post linking?

Do you have any stats with regard to anything wvw related that you can provide a rational counter argument with besides what you assume?

…The answers are that you don’t know any factual stats, so you’re basically calling a dev a liar. And your only argument to remove linking is that you think you, and other players, know better… That counter argument won’t win on any level and certainly won’t be strong enough to convince the devs to remove linking at this stage in the game.

The dev statement is no more supported by evidence available for review than is the case for the poster you quote.

Two individuals making statements. Neither providing evidence to support their claim.

Yes, you do counter facts with facts, but so far we have only unsupported claims, not established facts from all parties.

Or you can ignore the facts…

Dev post from Tyler Bearce…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Additional-World-Linking-Information/first

“We’ve also had a substantial increase in global WvW participation since reward tracks, world linking, and the return of the Alpine borderlands. On top of that, we use a fairly long historical tail on WvW activity level for world population purposes.”

From Reddit.. quote from the polling site…

“The week of April 19th we released World Linking and Reward changes in WvW. Since the release we’ve seen an increase in WvW population and participation and we believe we’re moving in the right direction. We’re here today to ask if you think that World Linking is a positive improvement to the game. As before, we’re looking for 75% of the population voting “Yes” or “No” to agree that World Linking should remain a feature.

Do you believe that the WvW World Linking should be a Guild Wars 2 feature?"

…So please challenge Tyler’s statements and get linking removed. So far you have zero rational counter arguments to remove linking, so you might want to work on that when you bring it up to him and the team.

When you have a person who thinks that there are four servers per tier (there aren’t, there are three) and has already stated that the links are still very much a beta test, one knows that WvW is being ignored.

I’ve read that page over and over and if you look, he lays out the ‘unfair’ matches right from the start – and it has been more than unfair for linkings to add to bandwagoning against his statement in that page, there is more bandwagoning and score manipulation by guilds and servers than ever before with the addition of real world paid mercenaries who trash the game and any real WvW’er who goes against their plans.

I’ve seen what links do and they do a horrid thing where we once had a community. We knew whom we could trust. We knew whom we could call for help. We knew each other by first names – but not any longer.

Links aren’t part of the host – they aren’t included in most decisions or even in squads that are closed and not speaking outside their numbers.

It’s very disconnected in WvW right now. Without ‘community ’and knowing that the other person is someone to be counted on and you KNOW them, the whole “WvW” game mode is more ’pay for play’ in a very bad way for all players.

Mercenaries are never addressed – and linking made mercs all the more ‘needed’ and all the more abused in this game mode.

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Just because someone says it, doesn’t mean it’s true… works for me, and for the devs. They can say what they want.. I can go on what I see with the people I know. At the end of the day, with the new PIP system I still say the servers would do just fine. You can argue against it again and again and it still won’t change the idea that it could work.

What applied then doesn’t necessarily apply now, and so on.

Ok, so find the dev who made the quote and call him/her a liar and challenge their stats against what you “see” and what “people know”… Id love to see that interaction take place on the forums so start a thread and pm the dev…

I’m not getting angry or abusive.. let’s keep this friendly.. we can debate without being nasty. They have their stats and that’s all good.. I have what I actually have seen while playing the game. If more pugs came in than xp people left then nice for ANet but not so nice for the folks that really PLAY wvw.

I’m not getting angry either… You are basically saying that the devs are misleading the players, and countering that dev statement by your personal speculation.

You counter facts with facts, not assumptions. By all means, you are more than welcome to challenge the devs, but you better have all your stats in order, not just what you “see” and you think others “know”…

Do you know what the player cap per map is?

Do you know what the average amount of overall players per server, on every server, is?

Do you know the total average wvw participation rates for every month this game has been in existence?

Do you have the overall average amounts of wvw players and participation rates pre and post linking?

Do you have any stats with regard to anything wvw related that you can provide a rational counter argument with besides what you assume?

…The answers are that you don’t know any factual stats, so you’re basically calling a dev a liar. And your only argument to remove linking is that you think you, and other players, know better… That counter argument won’t win on any level and certainly won’t be strong enough to convince the devs to remove linking at this stage in the game.

The dev statement is no more supported by evidence available for review than is the case for the poster you quote.

Two individuals making statements. Neither providing evidence to support their claim.

Yes, you do counter facts with facts, but so far we have only unsupported claims, not established facts from all parties.

Or you can ignore the facts…

Dev post from Tyler Bearce…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Additional-World-Linking-Information/first

“We’ve also had a substantial increase in global WvW participation since reward tracks, world linking, and the return of the Alpine borderlands. On top of that, we use a fairly long historical tail on WvW activity level for world population purposes.”

From Reddit.. quote from the polling site…

“The week of April 19th we released World Linking and Reward changes in WvW. Since the release we’ve seen an increase in WvW population and participation and we believe we’re moving in the right direction. We’re here today to ask if you think that World Linking is a positive improvement to the game. As before, we’re looking for 75% of the population voting “Yes” or “No” to agree that World Linking should remain a feature.

Do you believe that the WvW World Linking should be a Guild Wars 2 feature?"

…So please challenge Tyler’s statements and get linking removed. So far you have zero rational counter arguments to remove linking, so you might want to work on that when you bring it up to him and the team.

World linking had nothing to do with participation going up, unless you count the mercenaries paid to be on larger servers – that is the only ‘uptick’ from linking and that’s heinous abuse of real WvW’ers.

Adding a Legendary, that raised the population incredibly.

World Linking is still listed as a ‘beta test’. Not my words, theirs.

Linking is a destroyer of the game.

Adding a Legendary and tickets added value.

Linking needs to GO.

Take it up with Tyler Bearce then and tell him that the team is lying… go for it!

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Posted by: coro.3176

coro.3176

What I’d do:
at a pre-announced time…

  • unlink all servers
  • rebalance all players across servers randomly by activity* except..
  • guilds are kept together (based on currently active guild on the last character a player logged in with)

Just burn it all down and start over. Prevent transfers for some time afterward (maybe 1 month).

*activity measured before the announcement to prevent gaming the system

… but that’s why I’m not in charge of wvw I guess..

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Just because someone says it, doesn’t mean it’s true… works for me, and for the devs. They can say what they want.. I can go on what I see with the people I know. At the end of the day, with the new PIP system I still say the servers would do just fine. You can argue against it again and again and it still won’t change the idea that it could work.

What applied then doesn’t necessarily apply now, and so on.

Ok, so find the dev who made the quote and call him/her a liar and challenge their stats against what you “see” and what “people know”… Id love to see that interaction take place on the forums so start a thread and pm the dev…

I’m not getting angry or abusive.. let’s keep this friendly.. we can debate without being nasty. They have their stats and that’s all good.. I have what I actually have seen while playing the game. If more pugs came in than xp people left then nice for ANet but not so nice for the folks that really PLAY wvw.

I’m not getting angry either… You are basically saying that the devs are misleading the players, and countering that dev statement by your personal speculation.

You counter facts with facts, not assumptions. By all means, you are more than welcome to challenge the devs, but you better have all your stats in order, not just what you “see” and you think others “know”…

Do you know what the player cap per map is?

Do you know what the average amount of overall players per server, on every server, is?

Do you know the total average wvw participation rates for every month this game has been in existence?

Do you have the overall average amounts of wvw players and participation rates pre and post linking?

Do you have any stats with regard to anything wvw related that you can provide a rational counter argument with besides what you assume?

…The answers are that you don’t know any factual stats, so you’re basically calling a dev a liar. And your only argument to remove linking is that you think you, and other players, know better… That counter argument won’t win on any level and certainly won’t be strong enough to convince the devs to remove linking at this stage in the game.

The dev statement is no more supported by evidence available for review than is the case for the poster you quote.

Two individuals making statements. Neither providing evidence to support their claim.

Yes, you do counter facts with facts, but so far we have only unsupported claims, not established facts from all parties.

Or you can ignore the facts…

Dev post from Tyler Bearce…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Additional-World-Linking-Information/first

“We’ve also had a substantial increase in global WvW participation since reward tracks, world linking, and the return of the Alpine borderlands. On top of that, we use a fairly long historical tail on WvW activity level for world population purposes.”

From Reddit.. quote from the polling site…

“The week of April 19th we released World Linking and Reward changes in WvW. Since the release we’ve seen an increase in WvW population and participation and we believe we’re moving in the right direction. We’re here today to ask if you think that World Linking is a positive improvement to the game. As before, we’re looking for 75% of the population voting “Yes” or “No” to agree that World Linking should remain a feature.

Do you believe that the WvW World Linking should be a Guild Wars 2 feature?"

…So please challenge Tyler’s statements and get linking removed. So far you have zero rational counter arguments to remove linking, so you might want to work on that when you bring it up to him and the team.

World linking had nothing to do with participation going up, unless you count the mercenaries paid to be on larger servers – that is the only ‘uptick’ from linking and that’s heinous abuse of real WvW’ers.

Adding a Legendary, that raised the population incredibly.

World Linking is still listed as a ‘beta test’. Not my words, theirs.

Linking is a destroyer of the game.

Adding a Legendary and tickets added value.

Linking needs to GO.

Take it up with Tyler Bearce then and tell him that the team is lying… go for it!

The quotes from Tyler Bearce that you provide do not claim that linking caused an increase in participation. He stated that after implementing linking among other changes to wvw they observed an increase in wvw population and activity. He further stated that it was a belief (note that a belief in something is different than an established fact) that they were moving in the right direction.

Trotting out quotes and inaccuratelt representing what they actually say does not support your position.

And stating a belief that is contrary to someone else’s stated belief is not calling them a liar. I am firmly of the belief that our sun is not the center of the universe, that doesnt mean that I consider Copernicus to be a liar.

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Posted by: Caliburn.1845

Caliburn.1845

Been watching this thread with interest as a supporter of server linkings(even while they admittedly have some negative effects and are not a long term solution for WvW), and I have to wonder who actually is against server linkings? Because I talk to a lot of guild leaders, and a lot of server leader and admin types, and I don’t hear them complaining.

If there really is a majority of players against server linkings where are those community leaders, those guild leaders who oppose linkings? It is what, three or four very active posters here who claim to speak for a majority, but I have yet to see even one major server community figure speak out against linkings.

Caliburn.1845, Monsters Inc.
Darkhaven>Dragonbrand>Blackgate>Maguuma>Yaks Bend>Stormbluff Isle>Yaks Bend

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Posted by: Xernth.8561

Xernth.8561

Been watching this thread with interest as a supporter of server linkings(even while they admittedly have some negative effects and are not a long term solution for WvW), and I have to wonder who actually is against server linkings? Because I talk to a lot of guild leaders, and a lot of server leader and admin types, and I don’t hear them complaining.

If there really is a majority of players against server linkings where are those community leaders, those guild leaders who oppose linkings? It is what, three or four very active posters here who claim to speak for a majority, but I have yet to see even one major server community figure speak out against linkings.

(all of this is related to NA, I know nothing about EU’s issues)

I played on FC for four years or so and knew most of the community. I wouldn’t at all be inclined to speak for them, but in my personal opinion the following is true:

It is nigh impossible to keep building the community of a linked server. You can’t sell many on “the community is great, you should play with us” when 2/3 or more of the people that will be the population that play with the server will be changing every two months. So long term, linking is the death of the linked servers.

Caliburn, I heard you say over TS near the time the YB-FC linked ended the first time, “We’ll take what we want from FC”. Its an understandable position from your perspective, I don’t blame you for having it, but it should be obvious when that is happening every two months, gradually the played base of the linked servers is going to erode away.

I love the community on FC and have lots of friends there. It doesn’t have a large enough player base to support WvW in the manner in which I want to play though anymore, so I transferred to IoJ with the last links because I like the YB community too and YB isn’t open. Yes, I’m a hypocrite, talking about how great FC’s community is, and I just left it.

What’s the solution? The best solution is a huge influx of veterans and having those veterans go to the linked servers to populate them, but that is wildly improbable.

Equally improbable is asking the people on the stacked hosts to de-stack and leave the communities they enjoy.

The best solution is to have A-Net determine what the ideal population at peak time on a server looks like and then determine how many servers in a multiple of 3 the total population supports. If BG, JQ, etc are too big for that size, break them into two servers each. Relink everything to balance the population, make the links permanent and dissolve the unneeded extra servers.

Yes, the linked servers are going to rage, and if needed the split servers are going to rage too. On the linked server side, I guess all I can say is long-term the linked servers are dead anyway, its just A-Net hasn’t had the courage to put them out of their misery to date.

One you reset everything, then try to do a better job of controlling population movements than was done last time.

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Posted by: Caius.8094

Caius.8094

the toxicity of some servers is so bad that I xfered, twice, to be out of the links. Anet, please add a few devs to the game so you can actually identify the kittens in the game that are making it a troll cave.

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Just because someone says it, doesn’t mean it’s true… works for me, and for the devs. They can say what they want.. I can go on what I see with the people I know. At the end of the day, with the new PIP system I still say the servers would do just fine. You can argue against it again and again and it still won’t change the idea that it could work.

What applied then doesn’t necessarily apply now, and so on.

Ok, so find the dev who made the quote and call him/her a liar and challenge their stats against what you “see” and what “people know”… Id love to see that interaction take place on the forums so start a thread and pm the dev…

I’m not getting angry or abusive.. let’s keep this friendly.. we can debate without being nasty. They have their stats and that’s all good.. I have what I actually have seen while playing the game. If more pugs came in than xp people left then nice for ANet but not so nice for the folks that really PLAY wvw.

I’m not getting angry either… You are basically saying that the devs are misleading the players, and countering that dev statement by your personal speculation.

You counter facts with facts, not assumptions. By all means, you are more than welcome to challenge the devs, but you better have all your stats in order, not just what you “see” and you think others “know”…

Do you know what the player cap per map is?

Do you know what the average amount of overall players per server, on every server, is?

Do you know the total average wvw participation rates for every month this game has been in existence?

Do you have the overall average amounts of wvw players and participation rates pre and post linking?

Do you have any stats with regard to anything wvw related that you can provide a rational counter argument with besides what you assume?

…The answers are that you don’t know any factual stats, so you’re basically calling a dev a liar. And your only argument to remove linking is that you think you, and other players, know better… That counter argument won’t win on any level and certainly won’t be strong enough to convince the devs to remove linking at this stage in the game.

The dev statement is no more supported by evidence available for review than is the case for the poster you quote.

Two individuals making statements. Neither providing evidence to support their claim.

Yes, you do counter facts with facts, but so far we have only unsupported claims, not established facts from all parties.

Or you can ignore the facts…

Dev post from Tyler Bearce…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Additional-World-Linking-Information/first

“We’ve also had a substantial increase in global WvW participation since reward tracks, world linking, and the return of the Alpine borderlands. On top of that, we use a fairly long historical tail on WvW activity level for world population purposes.”

From Reddit.. quote from the polling site…

“The week of April 19th we released World Linking and Reward changes in WvW. Since the release we’ve seen an increase in WvW population and participation and we believe we’re moving in the right direction. We’re here today to ask if you think that World Linking is a positive improvement to the game. As before, we’re looking for 75% of the population voting “Yes” or “No” to agree that World Linking should remain a feature.

Do you believe that the WvW World Linking should be a Guild Wars 2 feature?"

…So please challenge Tyler’s statements and get linking removed. So far you have zero rational counter arguments to remove linking, so you might want to work on that when you bring it up to him and the team.

World linking had nothing to do with participation going up, unless you count the mercenaries paid to be on larger servers – that is the only ‘uptick’ from linking and that’s heinous abuse of real WvW’ers.

Adding a Legendary, that raised the population incredibly.

World Linking is still listed as a ‘beta test’. Not my words, theirs.

Linking is a destroyer of the game.

Adding a Legendary and tickets added value.

Linking needs to GO.

Take it up with Tyler Bearce then and tell him that the team is lying… go for it!

The quotes from Tyler Bearce that you provide do not claim that linking caused an increase in participation. He stated that after implementing linking among other changes to wvw they observed an increase in wvw population and activity. He further stated that it was a belief (note that a belief in something is different than an established fact) that they were moving in the right direction.

Trotting out quotes and inaccuratelt representing what they actually say does not support your position.

And stating a belief that is contrary to someone else’s stated belief is not calling them a liar. I am firmly of the belief that our sun is not the center of the universe, that doesnt mean that I consider Copernicus to be a liar.

I highly suggest you go back and read all of my comments in this thread before you make attempts to play “gotcha” with me…

Edit- You obviously have the right to post, but do me a favor and make an effort to understand the chain conversation going on so I don’t have to continuously repeat or requote myself… Doing your part will avoid cyclical banter and help lead to more constructive conversations. Thanks!

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

(edited by Swagger.1459)

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Posted by: Korgov.7645

Korgov.7645

I highly suggest you go back and read all of my comments in this thread before you make attempts to play “gotcha” with me…

Edit- You obviously have the right to post, but do me a favor and make an effort to understand the chain conversation going on so I don’t have to continuously repeat or requote myself… Doing your part will avoid cyclical banter and help lead to more constructive conversations. Thanks!

The post you are linking is 1 year old. Things have changed since that.

About a year ago the world linking did improve the game experience for the least populated servers moving from empty maps to maps bustling with activity. A bit later the loss of identity crept in. The linking has removed any sense of competition from the game mode.

I would welcome fresh stats about the health of linked servers. What is the player retention (how many players stay for good vs bandwagoners)? Has the permanent and active population increased or decreased over the past year?

Sulkshine – Mesmer
This won’t hurt [Much]
Ring of Fire

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Posted by: Caliburn.1845

Caliburn.1845

Xernth, do you know of any FC guilds that have moved to YB? We have had several guilds move to FC because YB is full, and more recently to IOJ because YB is still full. But I am not aware of any native FC guilds that have decided to move off FC to YB. DINO, MAKI for example are still on FC.

I’ve been playing WvW since release of the game, and been involved with server leadership since the first or second month of the game on at least six different servers. And we’re nearly five years since that time. There is not the leadership, or community support, or player base to support 24 thriving NA WvW communities. To be honest, I don’t think there is even enough to support 12.

WvW is pretty boring without people fighting with you, and against you, and grouping those people so they can find each others more easily(ie server links) is needed.

Caliburn.1845, Monsters Inc.
Darkhaven>Dragonbrand>Blackgate>Maguuma>Yaks Bend>Stormbluff Isle>Yaks Bend

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Posted by: Balthazzarr.1349

Balthazzarr.1349

WvW is pretty boring without people fighting with you, and against you, and grouping those people so they can find each others more easily(ie server links) is needed.

If this really is the case, and I suppose it most likely is, then I really think that this linking should be eliminated and the linked servers absorbed into wherever they may be. Bandwagoning will never be stopped regardless of the efforts short of terminating transfers completely until/unless all worlds are equal. Merging servers would definitely eliminate the complaints that we have about our “identity”.

Yes most of us probably wouldn’t like it but after a while it, like most changes and leave no trail, would fade and things would continue… without all this linked server talk back and forth.

My vote is to either unlink, or merge… this relinking every two months is frankly annoying, and at best gives me no solid team to fight for.

On the other hand… we used to have karma trains… now we have pip trains… and that really is what’s going on now in WvW. People looking for whatever will give them pips… not all… but very many people.

… just call me … Tim :)

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Posted by: Sovereign.1093

Sovereign.1093

Server merge. =)

[Salt] Heavy Loot Bag

Always Loyal

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Posted by: Xernth.8561

Xernth.8561

Xernth, do you know of any FC guilds that have moved to YB? We have had several guilds move to FC because YB is full, and more recently to IOJ because YB is still full. But I am not aware of any native FC guilds that have decided to move off FC to YB. DINO, MAKI for example are still on FC.

I’ve been playing WvW since release of the game, and been involved with server leadership since the first or second month of the game on at least six different servers. And we’re nearly five years since that time. There is not the leadership, or community support, or player base to support 24 thriving NA WvW communities. To be honest, I don’t think there is even enough to support 12.

WvW is pretty boring without people fighting with you, and against you, and grouping those people so they can find each others more easily(ie server links) is needed.

I don’t know of any guilds that have moved off FC to YB, but the participation within many of the FC guilds is off 60-90% from what it was pre-link. The essential issue is, it is very difficult to recruit into an existing guild on a linked server, even to just counteract the normal churn of players through the game.

I agree there isn’t the player base for 24 communities. The courageous thing for A-Net to do all along has been to merge some servers and potentially split some others. It is understandable why they don’t want to do so, but linking is really just server dissolution that has been soft-sold to people.

At the same time, I know for sure that there are more than a handful of forum warriors that enjoy their communities, even if they are small. The notion that there are only a small set of vocal people that “want their server back” is certainly untrue, at least on FC. But there aren’t enough of those people to support a healthy wvw community on the scale the game mode supports.

A-Net needs to merge/split servers, doing their best to keep communities together as much as possible. They need to aim for similar sized player bases though. Tiering even now is a disaster, you can certainly tell the difference between even Tier 1 & 2 today. The need to reorganize to 12 or maybe 15 servers that are more evenly matched.

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Posted by: rhonda berenne.8573

rhonda berenne.8573

I believe strongly that servers need to be unlinked. All buy four servers are marked at “high” “Very High” or full. 11 servers are marked as full. Crystal Desert before linkings was marked as “medium” it is now marked as very high. The server linking increased populations by far.
However now it is just pushing people away. Tier 2 with these linkings is just a blob fest. It was the same thing as last linking. Very blobby. The linked servers have enough population to make a populated tier again. It wont be as empty if at all. My last 3 linked servers alone could manage a tier for themselves.
After reading a lot of these posts it seems people do wish for unlinked. And Some do not.

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Posted by: StrawHat.2639

StrawHat.2639

Would people stop with this discussion…linked servers are pretty much a roaming population servers except on resets and they wouldn’t be able to revert to being alone again.

Am in one of them and except for NA prime it would be pretty much dead. Linking killed a lot of the population and guilds of said linked servers but its to late to revert back again.

I don’t want to find myself alone during off hours since I don’t want to just roam in WvW but a balance of all aspects.

The queues have pretty much died out even in ebg except NA prime weekends for the link am in. Our link feels on life support these days if not for Kasumi’s rallies and stuff.

In the end for the one reason, I’d like to revert back to single servers so I can recruit more easily peps and geps but the above just makes it impossible to revert.

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Posted by: Sovereign.1093

Sovereign.1093

merge the linked servers into a new server.

[Salt] Heavy Loot Bag

Always Loyal

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

And give us back our servers in Lion’s Arch only, too, so we can rally the troops!

Some of my fondest memories were yelling out for help in LA and seeing new faces appear — who went on to become permanent fixtures.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

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Posted by: XenesisII.1540

XenesisII.1540

I too would like to see servers unlinked again. Then we can finally get rid of the “unlink the servers” threads for the “links killed my server” threads or the “top servers being bandwagoned for fights, stop it anet!” threads.

Please anet, give the players what they want.

Another derailing post. ^^
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“I knew it, I’m surrounded by…” – Dark Helmet

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Posted by: Sylvyn.4750

Sylvyn.4750

The damage from linking in NA has already been done and can’t be undone. Looking at current server status is no indication that those servers would be balanced against each other because “full”, “very high”, etc. are relative terms, not one defined by an absolute number that is equal across the board. I’m all about server pride, too, but I think the best solution is to merge servers as needed. Some of us will have a new identity, but at least it will be a true identity and won’t be that of an orphan server that never gets to see its name broadcast when objectives are taken in WvW. Each relinking finds me having to recall which server I am paired with for a week or two before I get back into the routine, which is made more difficult when our new host server is fighting against our old host server…how confusing, just like trying to get used to what our current “color of the week” is when looking at the map or scores. If merging will not create balance, then blowing up and repopulating 12 new servers would be another option.

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Posted by: MarkBecks.6453

MarkBecks.6453

How can you put “3” linked servers against 2 unlinked servers, its diabolical. How many weeks must we fight against blobs that run 24/7 because they linked? Logic says, put linked servers against linked servers, unlinked against unlinked till you figure out what you doing, enough is enough

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Posted by: shiri.4257

shiri.4257

Would people stop with this discussion…linked servers are pretty much a roaming population servers except on resets and they wouldn’t be able to revert to being alone again.

Am in one of them and except for NA prime it would be pretty much dead. Linking killed a lot of the population and guilds of said linked servers but its to late to revert back again.

I don’t want to find myself alone during off hours since I don’t want to just roam in WvW but a balance of all aspects.

The queues have pretty much died out even in ebg except NA prime weekends for the link am in. Our link feels on life support these days if not for Kasumi’s rallies and stuff.

In the end for the one reason, I’d like to revert back to single servers so I can recruit more easily peps and geps but the above just makes it impossible to revert.

our link needs a hero and i think it could be you strawhat! I seen you stab 1 and 2. Get those rangers on your shoulders and carry them to t1! The pop is there for all links. The primary issue to get that pop back out (CD in particular).

1) Fresh Tags willing to learn, grind it out, and not get emo out after 1 wipe. Lots of tags spam join TS. let’s be honest here, there’s probably only 1 guild per server that you need TS. most of the time, the tags just try to run from one end of the map to another on a push screaming bomb or water for 30s and not realizing there are cooldowns on those. Then you get the fresh tags, that won’t run a commander zerg busting class (guard, necro, warrior, or even rev).

2) Whatever vet tags left to train. Tedious process, most of us have been playing this for 3+ years and it’s just not worth it.

3) Poopsock commander solves all the problems too. don’t even have to be good, just play all day and get back up.

~Kasumei/Machiato
Desert Spectre [VII]-Crystal Desert
“You’re never out of the fight.”

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Posted by: HazyDaisy.4107

HazyDaisy.4107

Remember back in the day when the upper servers complained daily about lag, yet most of the players on the lower servers never experienced that until linking and most recently with pips.

There are alot of people playing during certain times of the day, maybe not all times, but who cares. The sheer number of people on a map during certain times causes lag so unbearable that people log off.

What good does it do to have more bodies if half of them can’t play because there are too many bodies?

Linking at 12 servers NA needs to be undone! Maybe not fully back to 24 servers, but atleast another tier in NA. When 1U1D recomminceses we can then sort through the rest of the problems with pop imbalances.

Sorrows Furnace
[HaHa] Hazardous Hallucination

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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

I believe strongly that servers need to be unlinked. All buy four servers are marked at “high” “Very High” or full. 11 servers are marked as full. Crystal Desert before linkings was marked as “medium” it is now marked as very high. The server linking increased populations by far.
However now it is just pushing people away. Tier 2 with these linkings is just a blob fest. It was the same thing as last linking. Very blobby. The linked servers have enough population to make a populated tier again. It wont be as empty if at all. My last 3 linked servers alone could manage a tier for themselves.
After reading a lot of these posts it seems people do wish for unlinked. And Some do not.

1. Linking doesn’t increase host population since population is calculated independently, unless you mean servers took a lot of players from other servers?

2. Populations is calculated by play hours, not only by actual players. This particular change is primarly due to huge casual players (particularly in JQ). Technically, the primary flaw in this is that there will be servers that will have crazily big population at certain timing while completely empty at certain timing. Not to forget we also have something called returning players, thus servers that are housing huge amount of accounts may suddenly become a powerhouse out of the blue, this is another one of the flaws the current system has.

3. Many servers can’t fight for themselves. They do not have the guild numbers and coverage to hold it all up. In other words, servers that happen to lack commanders or guilds in specific timing benefit from link with servers that happen to have commanders or guilds in that timing. Unlinking means you are giving up all those benefits and forcing servers to fight for themselves. Honestly speaking, if all are capable of fighting for themselves, that should already happen in the past and not now. We won’t have the link today.

Overall, those who call for unlink are not considerate enough to consider the possible damages it will bring.

Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com

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Posted by: Kaiser.9873

Kaiser.9873

Truly you guys should read the posts here.. at least a couple of them. Since this new PIP system the populations have exploded. Queues are not uncommon and frankly splitting it all back up again would open the door to more of these people that want to come in but decide not to a lot of prime time because of the queues.

It’s NOT like it was before the linking.

NA T1 server here, and except for reset there is generally 1 BL plus EBG queued through the rest of the days, and generally that BL queue is less than 10. This whole queue thing you speak of isn’t a problem on YB, and I imagine it’s really not that much of a problem outside of BG.

ANet has allowed players to vote on permanency of linking, and if I remember right it was a pretty heavy majority that wanted linking to continue. Those of you that want to blow the system up are most likely sitting on servers that might have one or two major WvW guilds during NA. What about servers that have no major WvW guilds left? How fun would WvW be for them?

You are on YB and saying there are no queues? No idea why you’d say that because I know otherwise by experience and lately…

I just left YB, you, sir, must not be playing in NA prime time or many other times where there is no room on any BL for any players – queues are huge.

You’re on a host server. Host servers are not the ones who have no name, no presence and no help when one makes most callouts.

I’ve been on YB the last two years, and yes during prime time. If you are playing NA prime, outside of reset there will be a queue on EBG, and one other, with the other being less than 20, and usually around 10. The fact that you are calling me a liar exposes the fact that you will support your agenda regardless of truths and lies.

(edited by Kaiser.9873)

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Posted by: Liston.9708

Liston.9708

Truly you guys should read the posts here.. at least a couple of them. Since this new PIP system the populations have exploded. Queues are not uncommon and frankly splitting it all back up again would open the door to more of these people that want to come in but decide not to a lot of prime time because of the queues.

It’s NOT like it was before the linking.

NA T1 server here, and except for reset there is generally 1 BL plus EBG queued through the rest of the days, and generally that BL queue is less than 10. This whole queue thing you speak of isn’t a problem on YB, and I imagine it’s really not that much of a problem outside of BG.

ANet has allowed players to vote on permanency of linking, and if I remember right it was a pretty heavy majority that wanted linking to continue. Those of you that want to blow the system up are most likely sitting on servers that might have one or two major WvW guilds during NA. What about servers that have no major WvW guilds left? How fun would WvW be for them?

You are on YB and saying there are no queues? No idea why you’d say that because I know otherwise by experience and lately…

I just left YB, you, sir, must not be playing in NA prime time or many other times where there is no room on any BL for any players – queues are huge.

You’re on a host server. Host servers are not the ones who have no name, no presence and no help when one makes most callouts.

I’ve been on YB the last two years, and yes during prime time. If you are playing NA prime, outside of reset there will be a queue on EBG, and one other, with the other being less than 20, and usually around 10. The fact that you are calling me a liar exposes the fact that you will support your agenda regardless of truths and lies.

You are both sort of right. Pepper was in the YB/FC link when the patch hit. Queues were horribad every night for a week or two. Links have changed and people have given up on the new rewards since then. Now Kaiser is correct – 1 large que and maybe 1 small que NA prime outside reset.

YB→YB→YB→YB→YB→YB→YB→most likely YB