Guild Wars 2

As topic says. BETA testing has no place in WvW. Use the new BL tests to test WvW for beta characters. BETA characters are unbalanced and have no place in WvW matchups.

Calm down, they are gone in a couple of hours.

Really? So you want them to beta PVE stuff and that is it? WvW is a major game mode to many people and some people only play this game mode now.. Why shouldn’t we be aloud to test out these new professions in the game mode we like to play the most?

I don’t see them as unbalanced.. Its all new still and over time people will need to adapt to learn how to counter these new professions.. One way to do that is fight them and learn the moves.

On a side note, I fought many new professions on my old profession and I didn’t die a single time to any new elites.. If it was unbalanced wouldn’t I have died to every new profession?

BETA characters are unbalanced and have no place in WvW matches? Are you saying their to weak or strong? because i just 1v2d a scrapper and a rev and walked away with barely a scratch…

You’d rather they wait till final release to get feedback from the WvW community on what’s broken?

Dopamine.7502:

As topic says. BETA testing has no place in WvW. Use the new BL tests to test WvW for beta characters. BETA characters are unbalanced and have no place in WvW matchups.

unbalanced? lol they did it on purpose to make u see how powerful the new classes are so u will go out and buy HOT expansion just so u can compete. Same crap with every mmo I played.

Dopamine.7502:

As topic says. BETA testing has no place in WvW. Use the new BL tests to test WvW for beta characters. BETA characters are unbalanced and have no place in WvW matchups.

Because normal classes are balanced in WvW…

My only problem with it is they can nerf rangers in less than 24 hours but they allow something that is completely broken like the gun flame bug to last all weekend.

How is rangers being able to stack boons a higher priority than warriors literally 1 shotting people?

Puck.9612:

My only problem with it is they can nerf rangers in less than 24 hours but they allow something that is completely broken like the gun flame bug to last all weekend.

How is rangers being able to stack boons a higher priority than warriors literally 1 shotting people?

Because Rangers shouldn’t be able to stack boons like that. If you want to play a class that can stack those boons, play one, but Ranger isn’kitten

Kodiak.3281:

Puck.9612:

My only problem with it is they can nerf rangers in less than 24 hours but they allow something that is completely broken like the gun flame bug to last all weekend.

How is rangers being able to stack boons a higher priority than warriors literally 1 shotting people?

Because Rangers shouldn’t be able to stack boons like that. If you want to play a class that can stack those boons, play one, but Ranger isn’kitten

And no class should be able to just 1 shot anyone they see.

I think this entire weekend has shown the need for a PTR. These things do need to be beta tested, but doing so in the live game is not the right way to go about it.

My guess is the biggest reason they are testing on the live server is because the beta is limited to HoT pre-purchasers. That group might not be big enough to provide the testing/stress they want. Having a PTR beta test for all existing players, or even an open beta, would give them the population they need to test it without the negative impact on the live game.

Kodiak.3281:

Puck.9612:

My only problem with it is they can nerf rangers in less than 24 hours but they allow something that is completely broken like the gun flame bug to last all weekend.

How is rangers being able to stack boons a higher priority than warriors literally 1 shotting people?

Because Rangers shouldn’t be able to stack boons like that. If you want to play a class that can stack those boons, play one, but Ranger isn’kitten

Let’s ignore the fact that you completely missed the point. Please take into consideration that rangers have been the bottom of the barrel profession since launch and then offer up the logic behind this comment.

Remove Player characters from Beta …

Mind Blown

Dopamine.7502:

As topic says. BETA testing has no place in WvW. Use the new BL tests to test WvW for beta characters. BETA characters are unbalanced and have no place in WvW matchups.

I disagree. If anything, seeing the new specs in a typical WvWvW setting can offer a wealth of information for developers. And also for players, especially with the release so close. I’m inclined to believe the same people wanting to keep the beta content separate from WvWvW would still be the ones complaining about the new class/specs upon release because the real issue is that they have no clue how to fight them and have only delayed the frustration of working through that.

@OP:

Horrible idea. You’ll also be the first person to come back on here later whining saying certain classes are OP or UP in WvW. The beta characters are fine.

I can see druid rangers becoming wvw scouts. Staff 3 combined with the 33% swiftness trait (basically true permaswiftness, not the 25% stuff).

Anyway I disagree with keeping beta characters out of wvw as it gives valuable insight into the class balance needed before release in the wvw format. 1v2 Rev and Scrapper.. good job. Seems anet needs to buff the classes slightly.

Better to have them be overpowered or underpowered now than when things go live.

mrstealth.6701:

I think this entire weekend has shown the need for a PTR. These things do need to be beta tested, but doing so in the live game is not the right way to go about it.

My guess is the biggest reason they are testing on the live server is because the beta is limited to HoT pre-purchasers. That group might not be big enough to provide the testing/stress they want. Having a PTR beta test for all existing players, or even an open beta, would give them the population they need to test it without the negative impact on the live game.

I agree, but was under the impression EoTM was their testbed.
Maybe I misunderstood what manner of testing was to be undergone

Puck.9612:

Kodiak.3281:

Puck.9612:

My only problem with it is they can nerf rangers in less than 24 hours but they allow something that is completely broken like the gun flame bug to last all weekend.

How is rangers being able to stack boons a higher priority than warriors literally 1 shotting people?

Because Rangers shouldn’t be able to stack boons like that. If you want to play a class that can stack those boons, play one, but Ranger isn’kitten

Let’s ignore the fact that you completely missed the point. Please take into consideration that rangers have been the bottom of the barrel profession since launch and then offer up the logic behind this comment.

We just all hate rangers

There, secrets out. It’s literally a conspiracy.

Happy?

lioka qiao.8734:

I can see druid rangers becoming wvw scouts. Staff 3 combined with the 33% swiftness trait (basically true permaswiftness, not the 25% stuff).

Anyway I disagree with keeping beta characters out of wvw as it gives valuable insight into the class balance needed before release in the wvw format. 1v2 Rev and Scrapper.. good job. Seems anet needs to buff the classes slightly.

Better to have them be overpowered or underpowered now than when things go live.

Balancing around 2 players with no experience with the class after a single fight is such a bad idea that anet will probably hire you for having it.

Scrapper is ridiculously strong in a 1v1 when played by someone competent. They easily keep up 25 might, 25 stacks of vuln, have good condi cleanse, high uptime of protection, multiple blocks/reflects, something like 450 hp a sec, and then multiple blasts and leaps through their water field to burst heal.

LetoII.3782:

Puck.9612:

Kodiak.3281:

Puck.9612:

My only problem with it is they can nerf rangers in less than 24 hours but they allow something that is completely broken like the gun flame bug to last all weekend.

How is rangers being able to stack boons a higher priority than warriors literally 1 shotting people?

Because Rangers shouldn’t be able to stack boons like that. If you want to play a class that can stack those boons, play one, but Ranger isn’kitten

Let’s ignore the fact that you completely missed the point. Please take into consideration that rangers have been the bottom of the barrel profession since launch and then offer up the logic behind this comment.

We just all hate rangers

There, secrets out. It’s literally a conspiracy.

Happy?

When was that ever a secret?

lioka qiao.8734:

I can see druid rangers becoming wvw scouts. Staff 3 combined with the 33% swiftness trait (basically true permaswiftness, not the 25% stuff).

Off topic, but Rangers already have access to perma swiftness with perma regen at the same time. Mesmers and Thieves still make better scouts, IMO.

Increase Precursor drop for Beta chars by 500%.

For Insanity!

Puck.9612:

LetoII.3782:

Puck.9612:

Kodiak.3281:

Puck.9612:

My only problem with it is they can nerf rangers in less than 24 hours but they allow something that is completely broken like the gun flame bug to last all weekend.

How is rangers being able to stack boons a higher priority than warriors literally 1 shotting people?

Because Rangers shouldn’t be able to stack boons like that. If you want to play a class that can stack those boons, play one, but Ranger isn’kitten

Let’s ignore the fact that you completely missed the point. Please take into consideration that rangers have been the bottom of the barrel profession since launch and then offer up the logic behind this comment.

We just all hate rangers

There, secrets out. It’s literally a conspiracy.

Happy?

When was that ever a secret?

Well, I figured nobody told the rangers <,<

Better adapt now OP, in 2 weeks they will come and stay forever, continuing to reck you

Dopamine.7502:

As topic says. BETA testing has no place in WvW. Use the new BL tests to test WvW for beta characters. BETA characters are unbalanced and have no place in WvW matchups.

You are exactly the person I was aiming for with my troll spec reaper. Good times.

I want the opposite, please just let us play the beta characters. They’re so much more fun.

Dopamine.7502:

As topic says. BETA testing has no place in WvW. Use the new BL tests to test WvW for beta characters. BETA characters are unbalanced and have no place in WvW matchups.

No they must be tested in WvW, i tested the Scrapper only in WvW, cause i want it balanced and where can i test it the best? In a live situation where i can see how it works and what the class maybe need or what is too op.

Haralin.1473:

Dopamine.7502:

As topic says. BETA testing has no place in WvW. Use the new BL tests to test WvW for beta characters. BETA characters are unbalanced and have no place in WvW matchups.

No they must be tested in WvW, i tested the Scrapper only in WvW, cause i want it balanced and where can i test it the best? In a live situation where i can see how it works and what the class maybe need or what is too op.

You can test it ‘best’ in a situation where you are able to go up against other players in a wvw environment. Test servers are the best place for this, because it accomplishes that goal with no impact on the competitive game modes of a live game, while still giving the needed test data. If not on a separate server, at least segregate the players so that those not participating in the beta don’t have their games impacted by testers. That is the entire point of a beta test, after all. To test features while avoiding the negative impact of untested features on your live game.

I don’t recall any other MMO/online/multiplayer game I’ve played using their live game as a beta testing zone. And certainly not while also allowing such tests to carry over into the competitive aspects of the game. Even Anet decided to not test their new WVW borderland on the live servers. Why should new classes/specializations be any different?

I don’t think anyone is going to argue that beta tests shouldn’t be done. They are a very important part of game testing, since they give more (and fresh) perspectives and a larger scale than a studio can provide in-house. But there are very good reasons that they are not conducted on a game’s live servers.

Of course, putting this onto a separate test server(or segregated group on live) would likely mean Anet having to open the beta up to more than just HoT prepurchasers to get the population needed for testing. To me, that says keeping that pre-order “incentive” is more important than the integrity of their live game. My guess is that this, and the added cost/effort are the main reasons a test server wasn’t used.

Haralin.1473:

Dopamine.7502:

As topic says. BETA testing has no place in WvW. Use the new BL tests to test WvW for beta characters. BETA characters are unbalanced and have no place in WvW matchups.

No they must be tested in WvW, i tested the Scrapper only in WvW, cause i want it balanced and where can i test it the best? In a live situation where i can see how it works and what the class maybe need or what is too op.

You can test it best in PvP arena.

And would be better if Anet would make a specific Beta Test Arena queue for that purpose where Beta Testers at the end of Beta Weekend would be rewarded for contribution to Beta Test.

This would also increase the amount of Beta Testers.

It’s through these live tests that these new elite specializations and new rev class are getting the necessary tweaks, bug fixes, buffs, and nerfs. Anybody who beta tested in other MMO’s like I have understand that the beta environment just isn’t good enough. You get to test some things, but often you get people who hop on beta servers just to get the first look more than actually testing the gameplay and providing feedback. In other words, you have a serious lack of real feedback, and your test subjects are extremely limited.

By allowing beta characters to play LIVE in PvE, WvW, and PvP allows the massive amounts of feedback from players in LIVE environment, something you will never, ever, get with beta servers. Remember even when HoT launches, you may have people who will choose to not take elite specializations. So it’s very important to get feedback from everybody, not just those wanting a first look at the new elite specs & rev class.

The thing is everybody’s got access to these beta characters. So it isn’t like one server has an advantage over yours because of these beta characters. If your server loses a week due to the beta weekend, chances are your server would’ve lost the week without the beta weekend. If you find some class op in PvP? Well bring your own if you really think that way. As for PvE? Who cares, GW2’s PvE is designed in such a way that the more the merrier, it’s inclusive so powerful allies are a good thing for you.

Anet is doing it right, they are limiting beta tests during select weekends only. 3 weekends to be exact. It’s from these live weekend tests where they’re getting the necessary feedback from the masses to make necessary changes to these new elite specs & new class. No beta servers can replace the live environment, anybody who beta tested MMO’s before knows this. Be happy to know HoT will launch with semi-balanced, workable classes. This way you get to enjoy the new expansion right away.

gavyne.6847:

You get to test some things, but often you get people who hop on beta servers just to get the first look more than actually testing the gameplay and providing feedback. In other words, you have a serious lack of real feedback, and your test subjects are extremely limited.

You get limited, and likely lower quality, feedback when you limit your beta testing group to those that have pre-orders. These are people already financially (and quite probably, emotionally) invested in the game. They likely pre-ordered the game just to try out new features early (that is the primary pre-order ‘incentive’). They want it to be good, and will often be seeking a confirmation that they made the right choice in spending their money on it. Confirmation-biased feedback is not good feedback.

You get more/better feedback outside of the confirmation bias-influenced group by allowing people outside that group to actually test the game. The only feedback they’re going to get outside of this group is from their opponents in pvp/wvw, which isn’t going to be good feedback if that person can’t play the class themselves to understand why they died to it or easily killed it.

By allowing beta characters to play LIVE in PvE, WvW, and PvP allows the massive amounts of feedback from players in LIVE environment, something you will never, ever, get with beta servers. Remember even when HoT launches, you may have people who will choose to not take elite specializations. So it’s very important to get feedback from everybody, not just those wanting a first look at the new elite specs & rev class.

Again, the only players giving feedback on the new class/specs, are going to be the ones playing them. The limited pre-order/beta group. Having a test server not limited to that group is more likely to get a wider variety of feedback, because it’s open to more people. I’m sure there were a number of people testing in the beta-only areas with core specs. And even those testing the new specs still have 2 (updated?) core specs equipped.

It’s undoubtedly reveant/new spec-heavy, but that will be the case no matter how the test is conducted. You’re going to see more varied feedback by letting in players that didn’t pre-order the game just to preview the new stuff.

And wvw isn’t even a good place to test class balance, because it’s an inherently unbalanced gametype. But testing of them in that environment is still necessary as it does have unique gameplay and mechanics that new classes/specs will be interacting with.

The thing is everybody’s got access to these beta characters. So it isn’t like one server has an advantage over yours because of these beta characters. If your server loses a week due to the beta weekend, chances are your server would’ve lost the week without the beta weekend. If you find some class op in PvP? Well bring your own if you really think that way. As for PvE? Who cares, GW2’s PvE is designed in such a way that the more the merrier, it’s inclusive so powerful allies are a good thing for you.

This brings us right back to that core issue. Not everyone has access. Only the limited (potentially biased) pre-order group. This has less impact on the server-wide game balance because every server is going to have some of the new class/specs in wvw, but it does impact the gameplay experience of individuals. As well as having an impact on the amount/quality of feedback being given.

Anet is doing it right, they are limiting beta tests during select weekends only. 3 weekends to be exact. It’s from these live weekend tests where they’re getting the necessary feedback from the masses to make necessary changes to these new elite specs & new class. No beta servers can replace the live environment, anybody who beta tested MMO’s before knows this. Be happy to know HoT will launch with semi-balanced, workable classes. This way you get to enjoy the new expansion right away.

If they wanted to properly test wvw, they would have had a test server up with the new borderland/class/specs for an extended time (weeks, at least) that was open to all players.

I do agree that beta servers don’t give the full picture of what will happen on a live server. But neither does this limited test on the live server. Or even an open test mixed into the live server for that matter, though that would provide considerably more/higher quality feedback. And testing on the live server also comes with the negative impact of having untested features breaking your (supposedly) stable live game.

There are good reasons why pretty much every other game uses test servers, and in my opinion, this past weekend has reinforced that.

Puck.9612:

Let’s ignore the fact that you completely missed the point. Please take into consideration that rangers have been the bottom of the barrel profession since launch and then offer up the logic behind this comment.

I get that you’re a ranger main but you should try to see things objectively from time to time.
The ranger buff was announced weeks in advance and it took people an hour maybe to figure out how to get their 25 stacks of might – before it even was in game. If the players know these things by just looking at the patch notes the makers should’ve known as well. Still they brought it into the game.
I mained a ranger when I started this game and know that longbow was weak back then but even before LB GS became meta good rangers could wreck me. That was a year ago. They’ve gotten quite a few buffs since then and with the right build they’re nearly unkillable – you should try to see this before you jump on everybody who dares to say rangers are “ok” or “strong”.
Maybe rangers were patched that fast because a patch was coming up anyway or the elites weren’t “hotfixed” because they were in game for only one weekend. But don’t see everything concerning rangers as a personal assault.

Edit: And nothing in this thread was about rangers anyway, you brought the topic up. Weird.

Jana.6831:

Puck.9612:

Let’s ignore the fact that you completely missed the point. Please take into consideration that rangers have been the bottom of the barrel profession since launch and then offer up the logic behind this comment.

I get that you’re a ranger main but you should try to see things objectively from time to time.
The ranger buff was announced weeks in advance and it took people an hour maybe to figure out how to get their 25 stacks of might – before it even was in game. If the players know these things by just looking at the patch notes the makers should’ve known as well. Still they brought it into the game.
I mained a ranger when I started this game and know that longbow was weak back then but even before LB GS became meta good rangers could wreck me. That was a year ago. They’ve gotten quite a few buffs since then and with the right build they’re nearly unkillable – you should try to see this before you jump on everybody who dares to say rangers are “ok” or “strong”.
Maybe rangers were patched that fast because a patch was coming up anyway or the elites weren’t “hotfixed” because they were in game for only one weekend. But don’t see everything concerning rangers as a personal assault.

Edit: And nothing in this thread was about rangers anyway, you brought the topic up. Weird.

I brought it up to point out how fast anet can patch something. They didn’t just revert the skill, they actually changed how it functioned, all in less than 24 hours.

I am not saying all their changes should come this quickly, a lot of things need time to play out and see how players adapt. But when something is actually broken, like the gun flame bug that caused it to hit twice, that needs to be fixed immediately or disabled.
You can’t get proper feedback on something that is broken, and 90% of the warriors I came across over the weekend spent their time exploiting that bug rather than testing anything else out.

Try and look past your bias for rangers and understand the point I am making.
Anet has the ability to quickly fix game breaking bugs so they shouldn’t be left in the live game once they are discovered

Puck.9612:

Try and look past your bias for rangers and understand the point I am making.
Anet has the ability to quickly fix game breaking bugs so they shouldn’t be left in the live game once they are discovered

I don’t like rangers in general, yes, but I’m still able to see things objectively and if you had read my post without prejudice you would’ve noticed.
Most exploits in this game are in game for a week or more. The ranger hotfix might be the only class related hotfix I know of, but I don’t know why it was that fast and why it isn’t with other things. I wouldn’t take that aimed at rangers, it was likely a coincidence.

Edit: Spelling

Jana.6831:

I don’t like rangers in general, yes, but I’m still able to see things objectively and if you had read my post without prejudice you would’ve noticed.
Most exploits in this game are in game for a week or more. The ranger hotfix might be the only class related hotfix I know of, but I don’t know why it was that fast and why it isn’t with other things. I wouldn’t take that aimed at rangers, it was likely a coincidence.

Edit: Spelling

smh….. I even put it in bold and you still missed the point….. I’m done with you.

Puck.9612:

smh….. I even put it in bold and you still missed the point….. I’m done with you.

Good – as I already explained it twice, but you still missed it.

Jana.6831:

Puck.9612:

Try and look past your bias for rangers and understand the point I am making.
Anet has the ability to quickly fix game breaking bugs so they shouldn’t be left in the live game once they are discovered

I don’t like rangers in general, yes, but I’m still able to see things objectively and if you had read my post without prejudice you would’ve noticed.
Most exploits in this game are in game for a week or more. The ranger hotfix might be the only class related hotfix I know of, but I don’t know why it was that fast and why it isn’t with other things. I wouldn’t take that aimed at rangers, it was likely a coincidence.

Edit: Spelling

I really think you missed the point… His argument was “Ranger got nerfed in 24 hours because of the ability to 1 shot players due to permanent quickness… But Warriors 1 shotting players for 3 days without a hot fix using a broken ability… Dragon hunters using a broken trap for 3 days… etc…”

On another note, still have perma stealth or “ghost” thieves killing players while never being visible, hot fix? Nope… Mesmers 1 shotting players with 20k+ health with bugged gs 4 ability, hot fix? Nope…

The reasoning: Ranger got nerfed within 24 hours because people cried to developer Roy on Twitter until he promptly nerfed it into a near useless ability. Better than pre-patch because it offered nothing then, but still one of the worse heals for a Ranger to take…

and the reward for the most stupid thread ever goes to….

Ravezaar.4951:

and the reward for the most stupid thread ever goes to….

No, there has been far worse but it definitely dropped everyones IQ a few points.

Dopamine.7502:

As topic says. BETA testing has no place in WvW. Use the new BL tests to test WvW for beta characters. BETA characters are unbalanced and have no place in WvW matchups.

Ah i see, you want to test beta chars on empty borderlands maps to let unbalanced professions into the live game when hot releases. Makes total sense, you sir are a true genius………..

Basically to sum up this thread, some baddie got killed by a new spec and is QQ’ing followed by a bunch of pointless arguments that have nothing to do with the ridiculous topic.

No wonder Anet never pays attention to the WvW forum.

mordran.4750:

Dopamine.7502:

As topic says. BETA testing has no place in WvW. Use the new BL tests to test WvW for beta characters. BETA characters are unbalanced and have no place in WvW matchups.

Ah i see, you want to test beta chars on empty borderlands maps to let unbalanced professions into the live game when hot releases. Makes total sense, you sir are a true genius………..

The previous wvw BL tests were not very well done. My guild wasn’t active in it because we were spread across the 3 fake servers setup for the test. The way the tests were conducted, they would likely have been better off swapping that map into EotM’s place instead of creating that fake wvw matchup.

If they want to actually balance test new specs, they should have done a separated pvp beta for stronghold and new specs. Unleashing untested professions/specs on the live game (any part of it) is just a bad idea. There is a reason other devs use test servers instead of using their entire customer base as forced test subjects.

The live game should always be kept as balanced as possible to maintain integrity, especially within competitive aspects of the game. Allowing new classes/skills that you know still require balance testing into it shows a lack of respect for the game and players. The only difference between this and releasing them untested with HoT is the time limit on the beta weekend. Either way they are still put into, and allowed to impact, the live game.