Guild Wars 2

Imho downed state is something who support zerg mechanic. Me and my guild (who had stopped wvw raid since 1 month because exhaust of 50+ zerg) were used to engage always group of player which outnumbered us by 10/20 player. Our number was always arount 20 player and when we was fighting against a zerg, on the first attack we were able to take down about 10 player. These player immediately ressurrect when one of our server player or a guild member died. 10 player revive when 1 die. This thing (always imho) support zerg mechanic also with fast ressurrection from all the 50 player who walk with u. This game don’t promote enough skilled player.
I’d like to read ur opinion on this topic. Maybe not zerg player opinion but organized guild’s player (who don’t play 40+) :-)

I haven’t really thought about this much, but it would definitely level the playing field a bit since certain classes are pretty useful downed, and other classes are practically useless.

Yes I’d like to see troll eles dying in front of towers instead of misting back into the gate. And those thieves and mesmers dying instead of avoiding stomps, only for you to be killed by their friends.

Counter argument: Remove hard-revives from WvW.

Being downed is a central mechanic to Guild Wars 2 due to the lack of resurrection abilities and dedicated healers. To remove this is to remove a core function of the game. However (and this has been argued for a very long time here on the forums), the revival from defeated state would discourage zerging and promote more tactical play.

If players were not allowed to revive their dead teammates, a zerg would be forced to take less risks and not plow headlong into another zerg or arrow cart storm. They could no longer stop to instantly revive their defeated team mates and continue plowing along. Casualties would be a real thing, giving smaller, more coordinated groups, an advantage over sheer numbers.

But the devs want to encourage zerg tactics. Even in the last ready up they say they want lots of people playing together. It’s how they play, it’s how they want the rest of us to play and so it is hoe they will develop the game, or rather not improve or touch WvW because they dont think it requires improving.

downed state is fine, UNLIMITED RALLY IS NOT

After recently playing ESO and its more classic you die when you die system, I realised that the downed system in GW2 is actually much more fun. In ESO when someone died it was almost an anti climax… I was like oh that was a bit to easy, the downed system is kinda like a fight within a fight, an extra layer where you still need to pull off something special to make sure you send them to the graveyard. Personally I rather the downed state stays as I enjoy pulling off difficult stomps when their teammates are trying to res them.

deepwinter.9015:

Counter argument: Remove hard-revives from WvW.

Being downed is a central mechanic to Guild Wars 2 due to the lack of resurrection abilities and dedicated healers. To remove this is to remove a core function of the game. However (and this has been argued for a very long time here on the forums), the revival from defeated state would discourage zerging and promote more tactical play.

If players were not allowed to revive their dead teammates, a zerg would be forced to take less risks and not plow headlong into another zerg or arrow cart storm. They could no longer stop to instantly revive their defeated team mates and continue plowing along. Casualties would be a real thing, giving smaller, more coordinated groups, an advantage over sheer numbers.

Well to be honest in most cases any defeated players will be able to get back into the fight by WPing almost as fast as they are revived after the fight. The maps are just too small to allow any profound strategy regarding troop movement. This is something that TESO does a lot better. Map is bigger and disrupting reinforcements is a viable tactic – at least until everyone and their mother will be carrying x+1 tents.

Skady.5916:

downed state is fine, UNLIMITED RALLY IS NOT

Unlimited rally? last time that happened i just rally’ed 5 times after that went directly to defeated state.

Tom Gore.4035:

deepwinter.9015:

Counter argument: Remove hard-revives from WvW.

Being downed is a central mechanic to Guild Wars 2 due to the lack of resurrection abilities and dedicated healers. To remove this is to remove a core function of the game. However (and this has been argued for a very long time here on the forums), the revival from defeated state would discourage zerging and promote more tactical play.

If players were not allowed to revive their dead teammates, a zerg would be forced to take less risks and not plow headlong into another zerg or arrow cart storm. They could no longer stop to instantly revive their defeated team mates and continue plowing along. Casualties would be a real thing, giving smaller, more coordinated groups, an advantage over sheer numbers.

Well to be honest in most cases any defeated players will be able to get back into the fight by WPing almost as fast as they are revived after the fight. The maps are just too small to allow any profound strategy regarding troop movement. This is something that TESO does a lot better. Map is bigger and disrupting reinforcements is a viable tactic – at least until everyone and their mother will be carrying x+1 tents.

That is one of the majof problems in gw2 at least in WvW map is very small for that game type.

Aeolus.3615:

Skady.5916:

downed state is fine, UNLIMITED RALLY IS NOT

Unlimited rally? last time that happened i just rally’ed 5 times after that went directly to defeated state.

He means that an unlimited number of downed players can rally from just one enemy player dying.

Skady.5916:

downed state is fine, UNLIMITED RALLY IS NOT

On this note, whats the maximum amount of people that could rally from 1 person?

Please vote on the community site to give Anet an idea of the consensus

http://www.gw2wvw.net/content/your-thoughts-revival-allies-closes-may-6th

Aeolus.3615:

Skady.5916:

downed state is fine, UNLIMITED RALLY IS NOT

Unlimited rally? last time that happened i just rally’ed 5 times after that went directly to defeated state.

I mean that unlimited number of players will rally on one dead opponent. The only condition – all of them have to sneeze on that player within the last XXX min. This is very dumb. Fully dead person should be able to rally one person max within 600 range max.

Yeah its a really bad mechanic for WvW. But then they weren’t thinking of WvW when they made it. This game was developed for PvE and they just used all those mechanics for WvW.

Does it need to be changed? Yes
Will it be changed? No, because they can’t seperate it out of WvW without doing it for PvE too.

Tom Gore.4035:

Well to be honest in most cases any defeated players will be able to get back into the fight by WPing almost as fast as they are revived after the fight.

This is absolutely untrue! Watch this video (Warning: STRONG LANGUAGE) and tell me if you can run back in the same amount of time it takes for a zerg to revive you from defeated state.

In this video, it takes the enemy team 3-5 seconds to revive a defeated player (we’re not discussing downed players; that’s not the issue). Note that the Green team was fighting on Red’s side of Stonemist Castle. If you can run back from the closest waypoint, let’s assume Green’s Keep as Stonemist is likely contested from the fighting, in under 5 seconds with swiftness I’m reporting you for speed hacking.

Fuzzion.2504:

Please vote on the community site to give Anet an idea of the consensus

http://www.gw2wvw.net/content/your-thoughts-revival-allies-closes-may-6th

Don’t know if it could be usefull but we can try. And pls Anet listen to us:-) WvW need some love. Vote guys

by far the biggest flaw to having the downed state mechanic in the game is that it gives unfair advantage to those who simply have more numbers.

in sPvP the downed mechanic provides an added level of tactic/strategy.

in WvW i feel it’s unnecessary and just too forgiving at times, takes the whole “safety in numbers” thing a bit farther than needed- but it would be hard to say there’s no tactic in it if there is in sPvP.

my biggest quarrel with the downed state in WvW however are two things:
the elementalists’ downed state. there is absolutely no reason why they should be allowed to exploit it to eliminate risk of death in the vicinity of a tower or keep.
rallying off of mobs. this one is obvious enough. this type of thing still feels like a bug that hasnt been fixed.

Removal of downed state from WvW will make things terribly dull. It will allow you to sequentially remove one player at a time instead of having to devise tactics to overcome an enemy force as a whole. It will just make it so easy to burst targets down with no need of a follow through.

I feel it would be better to just remove resurrection from defeated state if the revivers are in combat and also perhaps limit the amount of people that can be rallied from one defeated enemy.

I agree with this thread. GW2 is too forgiving.

deepwinter.9015:

Tom Gore.4035:

Well to be honest in most cases any defeated players will be able to get back into the fight by WPing almost as fast as they are revived after the fight.

This is absolutely untrue! Watch this video (Warning: STRONG LANGUAGE) and tell me if you can run back in the same amount of time it takes for a zerg to revive you from defeated state.

In this video, it takes the enemy team 3-5 seconds to revive a defeated player (we’re not discussing downed players; that’s not the issue). Note that the Green team was fighting on Red’s side of Stonemist Castle. If you can run back from the closest waypoint, let’s assume Green’s Keep as Stonemist is likely contested from the fighting, in under 5 seconds with swiftness I’m reporting you for speed hacking.

So you’re thinking that two organized small guild groups fighting each other and on voice comms is what I meant with “most cases”? Think again

I think having the downed state is fine but how you rally needs to be changed. I would like to see:

• Hard down should require WP to revive. This prevents the larger group from simply steamrolling everything in its path without the need to resupply or wait for reinforcements.

• No revive orb use in WvW.

• Soft down can only be revived by self or by teammates. This will force a decision to be made – break off the attack to save a teammate or carry on fighting and possibly lose him because once hard down, no revive.

• Ideally remove the rally off players killed mechanic. Or at least restrict the number rallied to just 1 and within a close radius.

• Players only damaged by mobs (monsters) in WvW can rally like currently.

PS. While we’re on this subject, please make most of the mobs in the main combat areas ambient. I’d hate a fight to be determined by a random doe or firefly.

You can’t use Revive Orb in WvW. Never could.

Thanks for the clarification, Tom.

I’ve just been WvW’ing for the past 2 months so still a lot to learn.

I got that impression from teammates asking someone to watch over a dead enemy Mesmer in the keep “in case they revive”.

That makes me wonder if they’re misinformed or is there some other way to revive (aside from by teammates)?

It means they suspect there might be a non-mesmer within the walls who could revive the mesmer. After all, that mesmer lying there defeated probably has a reason to stay there and not WP off.

Downed state is a handicap for betters playes.

You wanna play competitive/hardcore in a casual game.

• Downed State is a fundamental and identifying key feature of Guild Wars 2.

• Arenanet have stated themselves that they want skilled small groups to be able to beat [zergs], but I don’t think changes to Downed State are the route they should take to achieving this.

• I suspect that Downed State will be removed from WvW because (the alternative of) overhauling the combat system to appease a few irrelevant sub-forum whiners is too much effort.

Downed-State and it’s associated mechanics (Rally/hard-rezzes) are the single, biggest design flaw in this game. I understand it’s conception and the reason for having it but the game-play it results in is just bad in every aspect of the game.

WvW is by far most affected by this mechanic however and is in most dire need of changes. Long-term I would like to see the entire mechanic revised but for now I’d content with the following changes:

• No more hard-rezzing in combat.

• 1 Rally/kill.

• Faster finishing (2 seconds channel instead of 3).

This would address the most glaring issues with the mechanic without affecting game-play much. Long-term though I still hope they find a better solution to their lack of healers than this abomination of a game-mechanic.

Most commanders I know take care of this by finishing downed state players off as a priority. If you do not leave the enemy in down state long, they are not likely to rally. I know it is not always that simple, but I do see some commanders charge after the players still alive and let the downed rally up.

In smaller things than that there is even more reason to focus on the downed players. I think it is hilarious if I am fighting with someone and they go down and get back up because they kill a mob. I try to be wary but sometimes I get stomp-happy and don’t notice them finishing off the poor moa as I try to get my wurm finisher off.

This also makes it hard to kill two thiefs, if one get down the other place a shadow refugee and ress him.

I think the best solution would be to keep the downed state and ally resurrection mechanic, but remove the rally on kill part to it. This would prevent mass revivals AND make players more mindful of keeping their allies alive, rather than ignoring them and hoping they rally off an enemy, which is what seems to happen often.

Also, the whole rally thing just seems daft and plain odd to me. I mean, you are wounded and on the floor unable to move, and not in a full fighting state, yet the moment you kill something you recover health and are miraculously back to full fighting power! How does that work? Why do you recover just from killing something? That to me just seems silly.

So I would like to see the rally mechanic removed, or at least disabled in WvW.

Rally mechanics massively promotes zerging and completely negates all the efforts of “small roaming group” vs zerg. You cannot “snipe” or “focus target” anyone in the zerg as a small group. Even if you do get someone down – you will never be able to finish that person. And this is a part of the reason why WvW zerg is pretty much a “melee train meat ball”

Maybe i’m goin to post this thread in every area of this forum. Seems like wvw forum is not important for anet

Downed state is fine (and even fun). Rally and rez is broke all to hell.