Guild Wars 2

I’m not a thief main but…

Stealth is a core mechanic in a thief’s defense and survival.
It is also an important component of various other builds like scrappers, druids, chronos.

There shouldn’t be an external item that negates a profession’s defensive ability.
It doesn’t seem right.

People don’t lay them because a thief uses stealth as PART of his defense. People use them when thieves are abusing stealth. Well that and for counter to mass stealthing skills.

Sure thing OP, let’s allow stealth to be abused. As if ghost thief isn’t bad enough, lets let them contest keeps all day long.

Pfft wish they would make it instant cast instead. Stealth was designed terribly for this game, what’s worse is the game released without any hard counters to it because they obviously didn’t think it would be abused as much as has, like 1 thief trolling an entire zerg in capture rings and all they could do was throw aoes everywhere, or now the ghost thief which is in stealth 99% of the time.

Stealth trap – may 14 2013
Sic em – oct 15 2013
Analyze – sept 9 2014
Gaze of darkness – oct 23 2015
On my mark – oct 18 2016

But they squishy!… that’s why they also have some of the best mobility in the game.

Eh +1 to removing cast time. Stealth traps need buffed. Thief is more than capable of building for stupid amounts of evade to survive a couple seconds of revealed.

If you’re trolling a group and get revealed you deserve to die anyway.

A thief that is idiot enough to step in a stealth trap after seeing a person kneeling to deploy it deserve to die.
Stealth Disruptors must stay and should be buffed imo as they are almost useless as they are.

I main thief and ones that rely on stealth. I see no reason to remove this trap. it something we just learn to deal with.

it not easy to use in the heat of combat, generally limited to one use (burns supply) and takes sometime to set. I do not think they need a buff. The reveal lasts plenty long enough. Any stealth reliant thief that can survive for its duration without stealth deserves to live.

The reveal off a stealth disrupter is not just a “couple of seconds.”

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth_Disruptor_Trap

people who think they useless just do not know how to use them properly.

stealth is a defensive mechanic and to get negated for a duration by an external item feels wrong =/

Why don’t we have invulnerability disruptors or blink disruptors or block disruptors as well?
All takes time to lay the trap, all takes supply, all hard to use in the heat of combat.

Stealth defensive? For a thief? You tell that to the people that get downed and killed by thief’s that stay invis pretty much the whole time… when you can’t even get a shot in because they ganked you from behind.

EremiteAngel.9765:

stealth is a defensive mechanic and to get negated for a duration by an external item feels wrong =/

Why don’t we have invulnerability disruptors or blink disruptors or block disruptors as well?
All takes time to lay the trap, all takes supply, all hard to use in the heat of combat.

Because invulnerability, blinks, and blocks don’t have 100% uptime….

No one is dropping a stealth disruptor in the middle of an intense 1v1. People use them against perma stealth trolls, groups of thieves hanging out in specific locations (like outside of enemy spawn) to gank solo players, thieves that repeatedly run to reset the fight, etc.

The cast time is something like 4 seconds long, if you are fighting a fair fight and someone gives you 4 seconds of free hits on them then the fight should be over anyway.

Every reveal should last much longer and we could talk about getting rid of stealth disruptor.
The myth that thieves heavily rely on stealth was true at the beginning of the game when d/d and p/d or s/p were popular builds. Today, especially with daredevil, thieves don’t rely on stealth as they did. They have condi cleanse, highest mobility ingame and even can keep their boons up.

Sure, get rid of disruptor, but rework reveal to avoid perma stealth finally.

Remove stealth so people wont have to use traps to counter all the bullcrap.

shagwell.1349:

Every reveal should last much longer and we could talk about getting rid of stealth disruptor.
The myth that thieves heavily rely on stealth was true at the beginning of the game when d/d and p/d or s/p were popular builds. Today, especially with daredevil, thieves don’t rely on stealth as they did. They have condi cleanse, highest mobility ingame and even can keep their boons up.

Sure, get rid of disruptor, but rework reveal to avoid perma stealth finally.

poor argument. This only makes DD mandatory which it already close to being. added to that every one of the thief weaponsets has an attack premised on stealth.

It is not a “myth” , thieves do use stealth. There an entire traitline built around it and added to that for every topic started suggesting stealth or perma stealth be got rid off, there as many that want to get rid of all the evades the thief has. They just want the thief to stand there and be a target.

I would like to see Stealth Disruptor Trap removed from WvW as well.

The trap is meant to counter thieves hiding in objectives. The trap is also needed to counter trolling thieves. Both activities require thief to maintain 100% stealth uptime. Which can be achieved by stealth stacking: repeated leap combos through a smoke field.

Unfortunately the trap is an awkward mechanism – both from trapper’s and thief’s point of view. Trapper has to visit a vendor to buy it, open inventory and spend supplies to use it, trap has long set up time, it is locked to specific location and you can only place one trap at a time (competing with supply traps). Thief has no counter for the trap and if triggered the thief is stripped from defensive and offensive abilities for 30 seconds.

Let’s fix the root problem instead: remove Stealth stacking. Now there is no need for the Stealth Disruptor Trap and it can be removed as well.

I’d buff the trap so that not only are thiefs revealed for 30 seconds but upon triggering the trap are reduced to 25% HP- think of it as a reverse gank, so instead of a thief freezing you to the spot and macroing you down to 25% HP inside 0.25 seconds or throwing endless condi on you or being totally invisible, they get to experience the other side of life. And their movement speed is reduced to 25% too.

Given it takes 4 seconds to deploy and costs so much supply, these traps should be much more effective and cover a wider area rather than a thing strip.

Or just fix stealth so that in order to be in stealth you have to move steathily, ie slowly, not disappear off the map at lightspeed.

Baldrick.8967:

I’d buff the trap so that not only are thiefs revealed for 30 seconds but upon triggering the trap are reduced to 25% HP- think of it as a reverse gank, so instead of a thief freezing you to the spot and macroing you down to 25% HP inside 0.25 seconds or throwing endless condi on you or being totally invisible, they get to experience the other side of life. And their movement speed is reduced to 25% too.

Given it takes 4 seconds to deploy and costs so much supply, these traps should be much more effective and cover a wider area rather than a thing strip.

Or just fix stealth so that in order to be in stealth you have to move steathily, ie slowly, not disappear off the map at lightspeed.

Adding the “drop to 25% HP” would be just plain wrong. “Ghost Thiefs” are kitten if you don’t stay and fight. All builds should have some form on condi clears and as long as you can clear a couple then they are kitten if you just walk away.

Mesmers can abuse stealth as well (they can double their stealth times now), but I don’t see ppl complaining about them. Druids have ways of getting a good amount od stealth. This thread seems targeted toward thieves in particular. Stealth has its counters (AoE’s for one, mobility for another as most ghost thieves are not daredevils, and despite their speed boost in stealth, its not enough as they need to keep some initiative for stealthing after a burst). 30s of AoE revealed is enough and those complaining about “all the supply it costs”. It doesn’t cost that much (10 supply, same as siege disabler) so the cost to put it down is nothing.

If those that encountered a ghost thief just walked away (or used swiftness/speed boost) these thieves wouldn’t be an issue as they are a condi one burst gimmick. Cleanse and walk away, stay and fight and you will typically get downed.

““Ghost Thiefs” are kitten if you don’t stay and fight. All builds should have some form on condi clears and as long as you can clear a couple then they are kitten if you just walk away.”

#Forumlogic2016, walk away from fights, thats all what people want to do dropping into a pvp orientated map.

The issue isn’t the trap, the issue is the way stealth works in this game, what doesn’t help is it being given out to classes at the same time as high mobility.

Remove stealth stacking and rebalance from there.

I think that problem is thief players low skill level. Average or better thiefs don’t even need stealth.

The way stealth/invisibility works in most MMOs I’ve played is either you can’t be seen but you can’t move at all or you move at heavily reduced speed. Also at least some other classes have a way not just to dispel stealth/invis but to detect it as well.

For whatever reason GW2 didn’t bother with most of these restrictions/counters, relying instead on short durations, which imaginative players and subsequent game changes soon rendered ineffective as limiters.

The stealth disruptor traps were added as a clumsy attempt to redress the inbalance but as many above have pointed out it’s the whole implementation of the stealth mechanic that needs revision. Until that happens the traps at least allow for some action against the worst abusers.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

If those that encountered a ghost thief just walked away (or used swiftness/speed boost) these thieves wouldn’t be an issue as they are a condi one burst gimmick. Cleanse and walk away, stay and fight and you will typically get downed.

Just walk away, ok sure. The thief can do the same when they run into a stealth trap then, just walk away.

The trap feels awkward, but there’s no choice since they won’t rework or adjust stealth mechanics, and thieves are built entirely around it. They hand out stealth reveals to a class once a year, probably the one time they bother to look at wvw balance.

I wish Anet would release metrics on how often traps are used.

If I guess about 1 stealth trap every 3 hours across all servers both EU and US and 90% of the traps placed time out before any thief trigger them, would I be too far off?

Xenesis.6389:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

If those that encountered a ghost thief just walked away (or used swiftness/speed boost) these thieves wouldn’t be an issue as they are a condi one burst gimmick. Cleanse and walk away, stay and fight and you will typically get downed.

Just walk away, ok sure. The thief can do the same when they run into a stealth trap then, just walk away.

The trap feels awkward, but there’s no choice since they won’t rework or adjust stealth mechanics, and thieves are built entirely around it. They hand out stealth reveals to a class once a year, probably the one time they bother to look at wvw balance.

When I am bored (or taking a break from serious gw2 play) I do play a scout ghost thief in WvW so I can say this for certain. Just walk away…95% of ghost thieves are vanilla thieves, thus do not have dash so the only mobility is SB and we can’t waste it due to needing initiative for stealthing.

Granted its more of a gimmick and i’m not a serious player of it, it does have many downfalls. The stealth disruptor is a bane, however if the thief has enough init they can slow you down and use sb5 to maneuver around cliffs/hills “typically” long enough to wait out the 30s, however it takes skill for vanilla ghost thieves to do this long enough as (daredevils is no prob…dash dash dash and gone unless there’s a DD or LB druid in your attacking party that can catch up/put him into combat).

Aoe’s, Mobility, condi cleanses, walking/running away via speed boosts, CC’s, stealth detection are our banes which is more than most other builds. Its only OP If you stay and fight as if you stay, we can immob you and keep piling on the condis, howevr the condis are only in bursts so you have opportunities to counter us with one or more of the above.

All in all, despite this, I don’t agree that they should be removed from WvW, although they also do not need any buffs.

If anything, ghost thieves are there to troll and if they can get a kill then that’s the cherry on top. NPC’s wont help, only other players or the above mentioned counters.

TLDR: Ghost thieves are there to troll and despite I play one once in a blue moon, I support keeping them in WvW and as they are now.

Xenesis.6389:

Pfft wish they would make it instant cast instead. Stealth was designed terribly for this game, what’s worse is the game released without any hard counters to it because they obviously didn’t think it would be abused as much as has, like 1 thief trolling an entire zerg in capture rings and all they could do was throw aoes everywhere, or now the ghost thief which is in stealth 99% of the time.

Stealth trap – may 14 2013
Sic em – oct 15 2013
Analyze – sept 9 2014
Gaze of darkness – oct 23 2015
On my mark – oct 18 2016

But they squishy!… that’s why they also have some of the best mobility in the game.

Maybe in 2017 my power Necro will have an aoe reveal skill too…

Actually, the main problem is that Stealth in this game operates as more of an offensive tool than a defensive one, which you could argue is a major design flaw. This is why the Thief class simultaneously feels broken in different ways to both Thief players (they’re way too squishy with no proper form of damage mitigation) and non-Thief players (they’re way too easy to abuse against other players).

There are lots of potential ways to change it for the better, IMO. One would be to allow it to last for much longer (the standard is 3 seconds), but for it to not make you completely invisible, only harder to see, while also providing a defense buff and/or regeneration throughout the duration. This would tend to help both Thief players and players fighting Thieves.

Alternatively, it could benefit from being the one skill in the game that works differently in PvP than it does in PvE. Revealed, for example, serves no purpose in PvE.

Tiny Doom.4380:

The way stealth/invisibility works in most MMOs I’ve played is either you can’t be seen but you can’t move at all or you move at heavily reduced speed. Also at least some other classes have a way not just to dispel stealth/invis but to detect it as well.

For whatever reason GW2 didn’t bother with most of these restrictions/counters, relying instead on short durations, which imaginative players and subsequent game changes soon rendered ineffective as limiters.

Agreed, my previous MMO I played if my thief went invis, he moved at half base speed.

Einlanzer.1627:

(they’re way too squishy with no proper form of damage mitigation)

(ignoring the fact the thief is the only class that perma-evade you to death).

Jeknar.6184:

A thief that is idiot enough to step in a stealth trap after seeing a person kneeling to deploy it deserve to die.
Stealth Disruptors must stay and should be buffed imo as they are almost useless as they are.

A thief that cant kill a player while he is deplying a stealth trap, does not deserve even to be playing this… probably should be playing a class that would carry him with easy damage output.. like hammer rev or bzerker free adrenaline builds.

EremiteAngel.9765:

stealth is a defensive mechanic and to get negated for a duration by an external item feels wrong =/

Why don’t we have invulnerability disruptors or blink disruptors or block disruptors as well?
All takes time to lay the trap, all takes supply, all hard to use in the heat of combat.

No but we do have Conditions that ignore invuln, we do have attacks that cannot be blocked, we do have boon strips to negate several defensive boons some classes rely on. About the only thing on your list that doesn’t have a counter is blink, and one can’t perma blink such as they can perma stealth.

Good thieves don’t care, bad thieves get stomped, and the rest of the professions end up not abusing a mechanic that they shouldn’t be able to abuse to begin with.

I don’t see the problem with them.

Dawdler.8521:

Einlanzer.1627:

(they’re way too squishy with no proper form of damage mitigation)

(ignoring the fact the thief is the only class that perma-evade you to death).

Go back, and reread the entirety of my post. The bottom line is that Thieves are simultaneously underpowered and overpowered due to the gimmicky mechanics of Stealth.

If they’d remove Stealth, there would be no need for Stealth Traps.

Why woud stealth needs to be removed?

Stealth needs to behave like how its behaving due the game is very gimmick otyherwise would be useless.

Imagine if targets hitted on stealth, stealth would end? To work like this, the spam aoe/cleave game would have to be diminished, and alot of players would QQ in the process cause they would stop being carried with alot of gw2 gimmickness.

Anet designed gw2 with players being carried alot by gimmicks build/classes in mind, so stealth being how it is, its part of the game ideal.

it’s ok to keep it, so keep it. Many abuse stealth, including far too many cheaters. Just learn your way around them instead of asking for them to be removed.

lets just reopen stackgate and be a happy family

Actually I would argue that Evasion, mobility and distance are the chief forms of defensiveness for thieves atm. Stealth just makes that easier.

I haven’t seen Stealth Traps being abused, in fact I think they are rarely used, might be wrong but I don’t think they are a big deal.

I’d prefer having stealth traps baseline for all classes instead of having to use badges to buy them – based on how rewarding stealth mechanics are

I would say yes to this, but ghost thief exists and there’s hardly anything more satisfying than sticking it to a troll. Ghost thief deserves to get slammed by this trap so much, that it far outweighs other (usually non-stealth reliant) thieves getting irked by it.

If anything, you should be happy that this trap is a line and not a circle. This + the obvious and long animation are enough leighway if you ask me.

Thieves are a high-risk-high-reward class. Stealth and evasion are the only mitigation they have access to, and also its core mechanics. If as a thief you hit a stealth trap, just retreat. Scrappers, druids and mesmers have access to stealth and also have other forms of damage mitigation, and probably get kittened too at stealth traps.
It’s meant to work that way. If you base your play-style only on stealth (like this ghost thief), then you understand that you need to get away if it gets countered. After all, thieves are masters of resetting fights.
What i see, though, is reveal skills from other classes need to have its durations increased. Specially since 6 secs reveal (the “standard” for the effect) it’s laughable for a class that can stack 6-7 dodges in a row and port away.

“high risk”? Since when? Stealth, highest mobility ingame, permanent access to blind. The only risk is not to know how to use 3 and 4 on your d/p set and you will be still be able to escape.

you wont kill a thief even if you reveal him lol

Stealth Disruptors were designed for revealing groups that had stealth stacked, hence why the trap can hit 20 targets. It’s not really there for specifically undermining certain classes in isolation.

I’m still waiting for those 20 target boon strip traps