You think this is the day they decided to kill their creation ? The day they launched the game and decided WvW would take the back seat to everything else is the day they decided to kill their creation.
Personally, I’ll be enjoying myself in AA come friday, have fun with the kitten show that is season 3 reset.
Nothing has changed. Yet. Give it a few days for people to adapt to the meta. Roaming will suffer unfortunately. It’s just bound to happen based off how OP Mesmers are.
This thread was created by a Thief in Dire gear and Perplexity Runes.
Are you talking about the Build i posted on April? that was just a troll post to see how cheesy u could get with the new trickery trait, i’d never run that kitten myself lmao. 26006 DP all the way yo.
Anyone worth their salt that roamed in WvW knows Mesmers were already one of the top classes. This change was a very nice buff to an already top tier roaming build. Imagine if they gave thieves torment on auto attack of the pistol… rioting would ensue.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
Tanking the torment + other conditions then sending them back with Plague Signet/Locust Swarm/Putrid Mark then fear chaining them is the most fun I’ve had in ages.
Anyone worth their salt that roamed in WvW knows Mesmers were already one of the top classes. This change was a very nice buff to an already top tier roaming build. Imagine if they gave thieves torment on auto attack of the pistol… rioting would ensue.
Oh my mmm they chose torment because a marathon starts at the sight of condition mesmer but a marathon also happen against condition thief mmm you might have started something…..maybe on sneak attack…
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140 The Dhuumfire thread
Normally we get into over the Ranger comments but in this case you are right. I apparently have been imitating a pincushion since the patch went out. I was having fun on my glassy D/D thief pre-patch but went back to the warrior post patch since RF is so spammable now. Rapid Fire is the devil… THE DEVIL!
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
Anyone worth their salt that roamed in WvW knows Mesmers were already one of the top classes. This change was a very nice buff to an already top tier roaming build. Imagine if they gave thieves torment on auto attack of the pistol… rioting would ensue.
Point is, before u find 1-2 PU cond mesmers, u can mostly just ignore and walk away but today it felt like the whole roaming community rerolled PU condi mesmer or LB ranger.
step three: “Equip scepter with superior sigil of torment”
step four: “Spam one and back pedal”
step five: “Eat Tacos”
Step Six: “get rekt by glassbow ranger”
eh, I don’t know. There is noticeable increase in their capability, however I had no problems killing LB/GS rangers today while testing out the mesmer changes. Their condi removal just seemed to be to low to really take on the mega ultra cheese. However, that was only on mesmer. My necro had no issues killing them either :> but I haven’t tested them with any other class. I simply haven’t had the time, therefore I cannot really solidify an opinion on whether or not the changes are OP. I can definitely confirm that mesmer changes are OP though. I felt like I was stomping small children with my scepter today.
step three: “Equip scepter with superior sigil of torment”
step four: “Spam one and back pedal”
step five: “Eat Tacos”
The auto attack is 2 seconds of torment on first, and 3s on 2nd attack. Even with 100% extra torment duration that’s not a total destroyer, and even trying to land that many auto attacks successively to stack high torment would leave you completely open to bursts… I’d laugh if any mes tried to auto attack me to death.
Weak buff is weak, any mes that auto attacks enough to stack significant torment is bad to start with, otherwise it’s just 1-3 stacks here and there.
Jorek/Etharin/Raylus
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
step three: “Equip scepter with superior sigil of torment”
step four: “Spam one and back pedal”
step five: “Eat Tacos”
The auto attack is 2 seconds of torment on first, and 3s on 2nd attack. Even with 100% extra torment duration that’s not a total destroyer, and even trying to land that many auto attacks successively to stack high torment would leave you completely open to bursts… I’d laugh if any mes tried to auto attack me to death.
Weak buff is weak, any mes that auto attacks enough to stack significant torment is bad to start with, otherwise it’s just 1-3 stacks here and there.
You fail to take into account that most will equip a superior sigil of torment and the other skills on mesmer scepter and what they do. The potential is torment stack is more than 1-3. I can stack 8.
Allow me to share some math with you:
The damage dealt by torment is determined by the following formula:
(0.0375 * Condition Damage) + 31.875 per stack per second at level 80
lets plug in my max:
(0.0375*2278) + (31.875*8)= 340.425. (without superior sigil of torment proc)
If the target is moving the damage is dealt twice per second. Since you pretty much HAVE to move to fight a mesmer we might as well just assume you’re going to do 680 condition damage per second.
thats 5440 hp from one condition in 8 seconds. Keep in mind that 5.4k may seem like a small amount, BUT THIS IS FROM ONE CONDITION, and I’m not including might(Grants extra 35 power and condition damage per stack) into my calculations. Do I really need to go into the damage output possibilities when paired with confusion?
This is only from the three scepter skills used to gain 8 stacks. Pair this condition damage with the rest of the applicable conditions from not only your clones but your skills and traits of a good build and even a somewhat experienced mesmer and what you get can be described in two words:
OVER-POWERED.
I will be making a youtube video to demonstrate my points. I will post it into the “Class Balance” sub forum
The auto attack is 2 seconds of torment on first, and 3s on 2nd attack. Even with 100% extra torment duration that’s not a total destroyer, and even trying to land that many auto attacks successively to stack high torment would leave you completely open to bursts… I’d laugh if any mes tried to auto attack me to death.
Weak buff is weak, any mes that auto attacks enough to stack significant torment is bad to start with, otherwise it’s just 1-3 stacks here and there.
You fail to take into account that most will equip a superior sigil of torment and the other skills on mesmer scepter and what they do. The potential is torment stack is more than 1-3. I can stack 8.
And you’re also forgetting that mesmer clones also applies conditions, and these conditions deal full damage (unlike their power attacks which are negligible). But toment isn’t the only condi we’ll have to deal with, as scepter can apply confusion, torch applies burn and their other set of weapons will most likely be staff which also applies burn and bleed.
The auto attack is 2 seconds of torment on first, and 3s on 2nd attack. Even with 100% extra torment duration that’s not a total destroyer, and even trying to land that many auto attacks successively to stack high torment would leave you completely open to bursts… I’d laugh if any mes tried to auto attack me to death.
Weak buff is weak, any mes that auto attacks enough to stack significant torment is bad to start with, otherwise it’s just 1-3 stacks here and there.
You fail to take into account that most will equip a superior sigil of torment and the other skills on mesmer scepter and what they do. The potential is torment stack is more than 1-3. I can stack 8.
And you’re also forgetting that mesmer clones also applies conditions, and these conditions deal full damage (unlike their power attacks which are negligible). But toment isn’t the only condi we’ll have to deal with, as scepter can apply confusion, torch applies burn and their other set of weapons will most likely be staff which also applies burn and bleed.
I didn’t forget, I just had to do some math read my revised comment
step three: “Equip scepter with superior sigil of torment”
step four: “Spam one and back pedal”
step five: “Eat Tacos”
The auto attack is 2 seconds of torment on first, and 3s on 2nd attack. Even with 100% extra torment duration that’s not a total destroyer, and even trying to land that many auto attacks successively to stack high torment would leave you completely open to bursts… I’d laugh if any mes tried to auto attack me to death.
Weak buff is weak, any mes that auto attacks enough to stack significant torment is bad to start with, otherwise it’s just 1-3 stacks here and there.
You fail to take into account that most will equip a superior sigil of torment and the other skills on mesmer scepter and what they do. The potential is torment stack is more than 1-3. I can stack 8.
Allow me to share some math with you:
The damage dealt by torment is determined by the following formula:
(0.0375 * Condition Damage) + 31.875 per stack per second at level 80
lets plug in my max:
(0.0375*2278) + (31.875*8)= 340.425. (without superior sigil of torment proc)
If the target is moving the damage is dealt twice per second. Since you pretty much HAVE to move to fight a mesmer we might as well just assume you’re going to do 680 condition damage per second.
thats 5440 hp from one condition in 8 seconds. Keep in mind that 5.4k may seem like a small amount, BUT THIS IS FROM ONE CONDITION, and I’m not including might(Grants extra 35 power and condition damage per stack) into my calculations. Do I really need to go into the damage output possibilities when paired with confusion?
This is only from the three scepter skills used to gain 8 stacks. Pair this condition damage with the rest of the applicable conditions from not only your clones but your skills and traits of a good build and even a somewhat experienced mesmer and what you get can be described in two words:
OVER-POWERED.
I will be making a youtube video to demonstrate my points. I will post it into the “Class Balance” sub forum
I actually didn’t fail to take anything into account, I flat out stated that even with 100% duration it’s not a total destroyer. If perhaps staff were applying torment passively like this, then there’d be a problem (as when you’re on staff, 90% of your time will be spent auto attacking naturally as two skills are insta cast, other two are long cd fire and forget). As it stands, sitting still and auto attacking w/o stealth is going to leave you a sitting duck, and your time is better spent DPS-wise doing other things (e.g. scepter 2/3, your phantasm, of choice, etc…). Even with strong torment application from auto attacks, you’re not going to be doing enough torment to justify sitting there auto attacking. It can’t be used as a primary thing, only as a supplement. This means you’re never going to get to sit there and generate your maximum possible torment stacks with auto attacks against a decent opponent.
Jorek/Etharin/Raylus
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
A well played power ranger can be a really pain in the kitten , with the RF and signet buff their survival has been increased.
60620 LB / GS with bark skin.
Said build has zero condi removal. Or presumably 1 per 10 seconds with SoR.
Last time i checked, my D/P thief didnt have any cond power, we talking power here folks.
Because people roam assuming they won’t face condis.
i was talking about thief vs ranger match up
Because you use duel builds for roaming and not builds that can handle roaming.
Honestly the next person who suggested a glass cannon LB ranger is OP gets punched in the elbow by the entire community, can we agree on that?
Edit: Also for the love of god no. You run a LB ranger and I’ll duel you using an only melee ranger, you have my account name. I will kick your kitten . LB is not OP.
So does this means a thief actually has a chance to lose to a Ranger. That is the end of roaming? lol
The Ranger buff was just an added annoyance. They are still easy to beat once you get on top of them. Mesmers on the other hand are ridiculously horrid now. They were tough before but now they slap stacks of torment on which deals decent damage and is a cover condition that keeps refreshing.
I was hit by a four man gank squad of mesmers and a necro which landed 25 stacks of bleed, 20 stacks of confusion, 8 stacks of torment along with a myriad of other conditions. I didn’t make it more than 2 steps before I keeled over and I have almost 30k HP on that build. Had that been all thieves I would have had a chance to react and possibly get away but of course “Invulnerability” doesn’t actually make a player invuln to existing conditions.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
step three: “Equip scepter with superior sigil of torment”
step four: “Spam one and back pedal”
step five: “Eat Tacos”
The auto attack is 2 seconds of torment on first, and 3s on 2nd attack. Even with 100% extra torment duration that’s not a total destroyer, and even trying to land that many auto attacks successively to stack high torment would leave you completely open to bursts… I’d laugh if any mes tried to auto attack me to death.
Weak buff is weak, any mes that auto attacks enough to stack significant torment is bad to start with, otherwise it’s just 1-3 stacks here and there.
You fail to take into account that most will equip a superior sigil of torment and the other skills on mesmer scepter and what they do. The potential is torment stack is more than 1-3. I can stack 8.
Allow me to share some math with you:
The damage dealt by torment is determined by the following formula:
(0.0375 * Condition Damage) + 31.875 per stack per second at level 80
lets plug in my max:
(0.0375*2278) + (31.875*8)= 340.425. (without superior sigil of torment proc)
If the target is moving the damage is dealt twice per second. Since you pretty much HAVE to move to fight a mesmer we might as well just assume you’re going to do 680 condition damage per second.
thats 5440 hp from one condition in 8 seconds. Keep in mind that 5.4k may seem like a small amount, BUT THIS IS FROM ONE CONDITION, and I’m not including might(Grants extra 35 power and condition damage per stack) into my calculations. Do I really need to go into the damage output possibilities when paired with confusion?
This is only from the three scepter skills used to gain 8 stacks. Pair this condition damage with the rest of the applicable conditions from not only your clones but your skills and traits of a good build and even a somewhat experienced mesmer and what you get can be described in two words:
OVER-POWERED.
I will be making a youtube video to demonstrate my points. I will post it into the “Class Balance” sub forum
I actually didn’t fail to take anything into account, I flat out stated that even with 100% duration it’s not a total destroyer. If perhaps staff were applying torment passively like this, then there’d be a problem (as when you’re on staff, 90% of your time will be spent auto attacking naturally as two skills are insta cast, other two are long cd fire and forget). As it stands, sitting still and auto attacking w/o stealth is going to leave you a sitting duck, and your time is better spent DPS-wise doing other things (e.g. scepter 2/3, your phantasm, of choice, etc…). Even with strong torment application from auto attacks, you’re not going to be doing enough torment to justify sitting there auto attacking. It can’t be used as a primary thing, only as a supplement. This means you’re never going to get to sit there and generate your maximum possible torment stacks with auto attacks against a decent opponent.
You should read the entirety of the comment you quoted, then you would know that noone is suggesting that the AA alone is a “total destroyer”, I am suggesting that the AA paired with the rest of a good condi build IS, and that I have already stated most of what you replied with excluding your point about the staff. I think you took my original comment to seriously. I do not believe that ANYONE is going to play these changes and stand still only using one attack. Of course they will have to move, how else will they keep the target in range of the conditioning? Who in their right mind is going to stand stationary in one position and ONLY spam 1? Especially on a condi build…every condi build in the game requires that you weapon swap, use a multitude of skills, and dodge roll/kite. Its never a good idea on ANY CLASS to stand still in combat.
Though putting torment on an auto attack is ridiculous, the real problem is not even the AA alone, its everything that can be potentially combined with it. The AA In combination with everything I mention in the extremely lengthy explanation(yes I know, I wall of text from time to time.) you quoted is what makes the mesmer potentially OP, it becomes pretty obvious why its a bad addition to the game when you take into account everything else the mesmer has at it’s disposal. It is certainly not a “weak buff” as you previously dubbed it.
You should read the entirety of the comment you quoted, then you would know that noone is suggesting that the AA alone is a “total destroyer”. I think you took my original comment to seriously. Who in their right mind is going to stand stationary in one position and ONLY spam 1?The problem is not even the AA alone, its everything that can be potentially combined with it. The AA In combination with everything I mention in the extremely lengthy explanation(yes I know, I wall of text from time to time.) you quoted is what makes the mesmer potentially OP, it becomes pretty obvious why its a bad addition to the game when you take into account everything else the mesmer has at it’s disposal. It is certainly not a “weak buff” as you previously dubbed it. Having play tested a maximum condi build of my own design prior to this feature pack, and now after its release, I can without a doubt confirm this.
I read it and understood what you were saying. At the risk of sounding like I’m just copying you, I think you took what I said too seriously. I’m saying it’s a minor buff at best, the time spent auto attacking on scepter even post patch is going to be very low, most of the seconds you’ll spend on that set will be doing phantasm/scepter 2/3 and stealthing/dodging when you feel is best. A good player will spend so little time auto attacking that it’s not going to add many torment stacks in the end. When it all comes down to it, either the mes is sacrificing survivability (by not dodging or stealthing) to auto attack, or is sacrificing dps (by not popping phantasm depending on offhand and scepter 2/3).
Ultimately, Mesmer was already pretty op. This doesn’t really change that, it only makes the opness slightly worse (the change to sword 3, imo, is MUCH more powerful, hybrid mesmers are now ridiculous thanks to these 2 changes). I agree it’s a bad change, but people need to stop acting like it’s the end of the world. Over-reactions to balance changes are what cause knee-jerk balancing to occur. We need to temper our reactions and state things accurately, otherwise we’re just making the balancing team’s job harder.
Jorek/Etharin/Raylus
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
Just to add up on the scepter auto attack thing: Necros too use to 11111111 people to death with scepter. The difference is that bleed doesn’t hurt as much as torment.
You should read the entirety of the comment you quoted, then you would know that noone is suggesting that the AA alone is a “total destroyer”. I think you took my original comment to seriously. Who in their right mind is going to stand stationary in one position and ONLY spam 1?The problem is not even the AA alone, its everything that can be potentially combined with it. The AA In combination with everything I mention in the extremely lengthy explanation(yes I know, I wall of text from time to time.) you quoted is what makes the mesmer potentially OP, it becomes pretty obvious why its a bad addition to the game when you take into account everything else the mesmer has at it’s disposal. It is certainly not a “weak buff” as you previously dubbed it. Having play tested a maximum condi build of my own design prior to this feature pack, and now after its release, I can without a doubt confirm this.
I read it and understood what you were saying. At the risk of sounding like I’m just copying you, I think you took what I said too seriously. I’m saying it’s a minor buff at best, the time spent auto attacking on scepter even post patch is going to be very low, most of the seconds you’ll spend on that set will be doing phantasm/scepter 2/3 and stealthing/dodging when you feel is best. A good player will spend so little time auto attacking that it’s not going to add many torment stacks in the end. When it all comes down to it, either the mes is sacrificing survivability (by not dodging or stealthing) to auto attack, or is sacrificing dps (by not popping phantasm depending on offhand and scepter 2/3).
Ultimately, Mesmer was already pretty op. This doesn’t really change that, it only makes the opness slightly worse (the change to sword 3, imo, is MUCH more powerful, hybrid mesmers are now ridiculous thanks to these 2 changes). I agree it’s a bad change, but people need to stop acting like it’s the end of the world. Over-reactions to balance changes are what cause knee-jerk balancing to occur. We need to temper our reactions and state things accurately, otherwise we’re just making the balancing team’s job harder.
I will admit, I am pretty infuriated by these changes. That is only because in hind sight of it all I really just have no idea what they were thinking when they implemented them. It is preposterous. A “minor buff” to an already OP class can also be the last nail in the coffin. If this were added to a class that didn’t have so many other conditions and viable ways to stack them, this would not be as bad as it currently is. You’re right, it is not the end of the world, but it is becoming the end of class balance. I come across to harsh sometimes, but in this case it is only because I’m watching a class I enjoy playing slowly becoming what the Warlock is to WoW. I believe that all classes should have a viable way of defeating one another, and slowly but surely, the mesmer is becoming god mode.
Another qq warrior – spend a year invincible in wvw and when a patch comes out that gives one of the weakest classes in the game a chance to actually do some damage to a warrior they cry about how OP mesmers are….
sorry but that is complete rubbish… I can wear full berz gear and have all my weapons and stats set to maximum damage and not even move the health bar of a warrior. The only way to possibly do any damage to a warrior is to use conditions or spend 40 minutes dodging and hitting without being hit in return.
And running in zergs the class that repeatedly gets the least amount of loot and wxp is the mesmer.
If you can’t be bothered to target your attacker and re-target after they come out of cloak then you deserve to die like the noob you are… mesmers are the least loved class in GW. The skill fail-rate on a mesmer is unbelievable and it is the only class in the game that has an elite that buffs the player they are fighting and can kill them if the person being turned into a moa keeps their wits instead of running in panic.
The patch actually nerfed quite a few mesmer things and the only buff they got was on a scepter that has just as much chance to kill the mesmer than it has to kill their foe. But then we don’t expect people who qq about mesmers to know how to play the game.
Another qq warrior – spend a year invincible in wvw and when a patch comes out that gives one of the weakest classes in the game a chance to actually do some damage to a warrior they cry about how OP mesmers are….
sorry but that is complete rubbish… I can wear full berz gear and have all my weapons and stats set to maximum damage and not even move the health bar of a warrior. The only way to possibly do any damage to a warrior is to use conditions or spend 40 minutes dodging and hitting without being hit in return.
And running in zergs the class that repeatedly gets the least amount of loot and wxp is the mesmer.
If you can’t be bothered to target your attacker and re-target after they come out of cloak then you deserve to die like the noob you are… mesmers are the least loved class in GW. The skill fail-rate on a mesmer is unbelievable and it is the only class in the game that has an elite that buffs the player they are fighting and can kill them if the person being turned into a moa keeps their wits instead of running in panic.
The patch actually nerfed quite a few mesmer things and the only buff they got was on a scepter that has just as much chance to kill the mesmer than it has to kill their foe. But then we don’t expect people who qq about mesmers to know how to play the game.
Another qq warrior – spend a year invincible in wvw and when a patch comes out that gives one of the weakest classes in the game a chance to actually do some damage to a warrior they cry about how OP mesmers are….
WTF are you talking about. Warriors are pretty much the last roaming holdouts for power builds and they SUCK against kiting builds (PU Mesmer, P/D Thief). Invincible… only reason they have lasted this long roaming is good speed, great direct damage moderation and decent condi removal. I can tear one apart on just about any class. Their burst is crap at least on roaming builds.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
Man, all of you crying about LB rangers haven’t seen DB yet. Two of their guilds run 90% LB rangers, no exaggeration. We’ve run into zergs of exclusively LB rangers.
Man, all of you crying about LB rangers haven’t seen DB yet. Two of their guilds run 90% LB rangers, no exaggeration. We’ve run into zergs of exclusively LB rangers.
Sounds like you need some mesmers :P
Cufufalating – Ranger / Part-Time Mesmer
Gunnar’s Hold
read my revised comment