Guild Wars 2

Yes, I’ll be the one to say it.

Far from me to defend pip AFK farmers, but these changes do more damage than good. Revert the Outnumered and Decay changes and think of better solutions.

Lets not forget to actually test them either before annoying players with band-aid fixes on live servers.

I know the devs are trying and respect to them for doing so, but these just aren’t the best solutions.

No

I haven’t even noticed the changes as a player actually playing WvW.

Sarge.9730:

I haven’t even noticed the changes as a player actually playing WvW.

Just because you haven’t doesn’t mean others don’t.

I’m still deciding about the decay timers and participation itself, while I personally don’t agree with everything, like the fact that some participation events force people to ignore previously held concepts on wvw itself (like waiting for RI, Tapping is annoying, running from fights is chicken, yada yada) the changes to the decay timers really didn’t kill those concepts, the pip system itself did.

The outnumbered changes on the other hand were a good thing, and I’ve benefitted from the new changes atleast once each night so far and it felt good to get that boost because I’d earned it.

Nah dude they don’t have to revert the timers. I don’t even notcie they were changed. In fact, the numbers given by mckenna (spelling might be off) was very fair.

If you’re one of those “i need to scout every tower” guys, then jsut tell your com so he or she can give to participation.

The outnumbered thing really isnt that bad, though I think the timer should be half a tick instead of a full tick.

The participation issue is just… sigh. While I understand some timers, its just pushes a 100% offensive karma train policy that punish the dirty work of WvW which has already been brushed aside over the years. The worst part is that this combined with insanely strong T3 objectives and defensive siege cause extreme frustration to those of us that run small scale – we can no longer spend time trying to slowly drain objectives because we’re apparently not participating in WvW. Our participation hangs on the enemy gracefully allowing us to get some participation.

The people that have seen the change are afk leechers, just Roaming it is so easy to maintain T6 participation without even trying since almost everything gives Participation, now players even know how much Participation time is given per objective/kill.

This change only makes it so players can’t afk leech in keeps and spawn, now they actually have to participate to get rewards.

This is coming from someone that Solo roams on Thief, Rev and Fa Ele, so far it has not changed my Roaming habits and I get full T6 Participation within 10-20 minutes of Logging into WvW.

You don’t have ktrain or blob.

Killing camp guards gives Participation you don’t even need to cap the camp if you get chased away and if you can kill at least one guard in a couple seconds you have much bigger problems.

It is significantly harder to keep participation (especially on guarded map). If you don’t have enough time to solo camp before group that protects it nukes you, you don’t have enough time to go to another camp, period. Getting to the tower barely possible (and mostly not possible on the desert map). Basically everything is “do it with the zerg” mode. No zerg = good chance of participation insta-decaying before you have a chance to keep it up.

I guess “true roamers” don’t care — they are there to stomp noobs and cut off individuals from the tail of the zerg, not to get some pips and whatnot.

Sly.9518:

The people that have seen the change are afk leechers, just Roaming it is so easy to maintain T6 participation without even trying since almost everything gives Participation, now players even know how much Participation time is given per objective/kill.

This change only makes it so players can’t afk leech in keeps and spawn, now they actually have to participate to get rewards.

This is coming from someone that Solo roams on Thief, Rev and Fa Ele, so far it has not changed my Roaming habits and I get full T6 Participation within 10-20 minutes of Logging into WvW.

You don’t have ktrain or blob.

You’re right, you don’t have to zerg right now, you just can’t sit in a T1 tower and seige it and babysit it, ya know, scout your tower. Some of those leechers you speak of are our former scouts that were participating in wvw the way it was BEFORE pips, even after pips, it’s still participating, just not in Anet’s eyes.

So while your playstyle hasn’t been affected YET, understand that some peoples have, and the things that used to bring them joy are now by and large ignored for the almighty pip.

Since wvw is rewards based now, its just a matter of time before all the old burns though, so be careful who you call a leech.

The changes are fine.

Bugabuga.9721:

It is significantly harder to keep participation (especially on guarded map). If you don’t have enough time to solo camp before group that protects it nukes you, you don’t have enough time to go to another camp, period. Getting to the tower barely possible (and mostly not possible on the desert map).

I guess “true roamers” don’t care — they are there to stomp noobs and cut off individuals from the tail of the zerg, not to get some pips and whatnot.

Was able to two man a tower with a superior Cata yesterday, which means a return to the camp, and time to kill the lord. Didn’t see participation drop. No, we didn’t get zerged down which was a risk, but that was in the desert BL. Distances wasn’t an issue then.

And as you noted ‘true roamers’ stomping ‘noobs’ gives them significant participation. So, they are getting PiPs too.

The biggest issue to me are scouts that aren’t flipping anything.

I think picking a corner in any map and tagging things is their best option, unless there was a way to give participation for some of their tasks. Which would be hard to do without it being abused heavily.

Commanders will need to help the good ones out by sharing for now. So, as a scout, try to be vocal and helpful. Hopefully people will get you shared Participation

good changes keep it the way it is

So far I have found both the participation and the outnumbered changes to be just fine.

I have run around solo, capturing camps, killing sentries, killing and being killed by players, having to run back from spawn, getting to a camp a split second after allies finish capping it, waiting the last minute or two for a camp to be capturable, and so on without any difficulty maintaining my participation.

You’ll be the one to say it? Sorry, you’re not the first or the only one to even make a thread about it.

Nor have you put anything new here.

The chances of this making a meaningful contribution to the discussion that is enveloping the entire forum are thus…unlikely.

Note, any of the above posts could have been copy/pasted from other threads—even the OP.

Try roaming for a night and then tell me how much you still like this change.

Drakh.3128:

Try roaming for a night and then tell me how much you still like this change.

I did.

The changes didnt seem to impact me to a noticeable degree. I like the outnumbered change and dont see any impact from the participation degrade change.

That said, I am intending to play more, over a few sessions, before forming a final opinion. Perhaps Ive just been very lucky so far and will see the downsides with a larger sample.

There is not much of a problem if you play attacker. However, this game mode needs also people who defend the stuff, or all you have is a bunch of karmatrains flipping objectives everytime the timer runs out.

Play outside of the prime time, don’t change maps, stay in your part of the map, build siege weapons, refresh their timer, guard yaks, defend your camps instead of flipping them back and you may understand, that not only afk’ers are left behind by the new system. Basically, the least rewarding role in the least rewarding game mode was nerfed or at least made more difficult.

The outnumbered change, however, is fine.

Roamers, scouts, defenders or a structure and people on desert bl are punished by increased decay ALSO outnumbered punishes people who move maps to defend a structure. Not cool…

“Oh look! The players can farm the pips waaaay to fast.”

“But well Sir, it still takes a lot of time to get all chests and even if you get all chests it still takes some time to get the things you want for the tickets…”

“Yes you are right: let’s nerf the pips!”

“Sir thats not what i wanted to…”

“NERF THE PIPS!”

Seems like a typical ANet WvW thing, hear some criticism, come to an absolute false conclusion and give the players a “fix” that breaks more than it fixes.

Well done… again…

Vortigern.1987:

There is not much of a problem if you play attacker. However, this game mode needs also people who defend the stuff, or all you have is a bunch of karmatrains flipping objectives everytime the timer runs out.

Play outside of the prime time, don’t change maps, stay in your part of the map, build siege weapons, refresh their timer, guard yaks, defend your camps instead of flipping them back and you may understand, that not only afk’ers are left behind by the new system. Basically, the least rewarding role in the least rewarding game mode was nerfed or at least made more difficult.

The outnumbered change, however, is fine.

All week, I’ve played exclusively as a scout/defender on Desert BL in T4 NA. I haven’t once had any participation problems. The only time I’ve seen decay is after sieging a wall but being attacked before it goes down and failing to kill any of the attackers. Even then, I’ve never actually dropped a tier—even without going out of my way to get participation.

That said, I do think some changes could be made to ease the pressure a bit. For example, defense events should give credit for damaging an enemy player or their siege. They should also give credit for destroying enemy siege. I imagine they don’t currently to make it harder to game the system, but the fact is we don’t have people gaming the system with cooperation from enemy servers on any noticeable level. With the new participation system, there are some edge cases that are now much more painful since getting credit for defending is so spotty.

please fix this game. it’s broken now. i can’t play with the decay so fast. i can’t make it without people ganking me. they are leeching off me because i don’t have the proper gear and squad. they gang up on me. give bonus points for dying. remove time gained for killing people. make it friendly please.

Drakh.3128:

Try roaming for a night and then tell me how much you still like this change.

Still roaming and i barely see the changes you guys cry about.

I have noticed 0 change since that patch. I am always on the move, and rarely am I just standing around. I personally feel that if you just keep capturing, killing, and other such fun things you will not notice any change to the system.

I roam most days for a hour or two when I get home, and get plenty of pips as I am always doing something that counts towards those pips. I really do not think people that are actually doing the same as me are having any issue with this change.

If you just stand around, then I guess you should expect decay. If your not consistently taking objectives and killing other players, then you will get decay. Seems fairly simple to me. Unless I missed something?

Malerian.8435:

If you just stand around, then I guess you should expect decay. If your not consistently taking objectives and killing other players, then you will get decay. Seems fairly simple to me. Unless I missed something?

Yeah, you did. Consider the opposite: If you just ktrain, then I guess you should expect decay. If you’re not consistently defending objectives or preparing to defend objectives, then you will get decay. Still seems pretty simple, but do you feel it would be a positive change . . ?

WvW needs both of those players, so just bc the change didn’t affect you doesn’t make it a good change. I too have been rarely affected by the change bc I mostly roam. But since I do sometimes scout as well I understand the importance of it and I think driving that role out of wvw would be a mistake . . .