Guild Wars 2

- Exploit
or
- Clever use of game mechanics

In wiki ( http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Battle_Standard ), it is stated :
The banner only revives players and NPCs when it is first summoned. After it is summoned, it no longer revives players or NPCs. The banner revives from Downed state only, not Defeated state. For friendly NPCs who are capable of being revived, the banner considers Defeated status as Downed status.

So what’s your opinion?

It’s not an exploit but I don’t think it should be happening.

Clever use of mechanics, it even says in the description it revives NPCs

It’s not an exploit in terms of people using it need to be banned, but it is something that shouldn’t be happening.

why not ? working as intended i guess, ressing the downed….

working as intended IMO

@Heijincks

Keep lords can be revived at least until the keep is flipped.

People have to complain just about everything.

Works as intended considering the last sentence of the description. If it was done on purpose: Clever warrior :-)

Edit: Its the wikis own explanation added to the skill. So you may indeed have to ask Anet whether thats intended.

Now if only somebody would rez the warrior..

Most of the classes have a skill to do it… not only war and elite banner. But wait ! you have to take another skill out to get it like warriors do since it isnt the most sexy elite they have
Also they arent invisible, have to get in range and are easy to interrupt since its a really animated 2s cast
So just do like good guilds do. Defense, push them back and give thie focus job when a lord is done to people spec rightly in your raid

If you can not rez the keeplord during combat it should be, according to game mechanics, judged as a defeated player. So it’s imo an explout/ bug.

Bur guess we have to wait for developersto give us a clear awnser on thi.

Refuge/timewarp rezzing is still far better than the banner. Add an ele in there sitting in water to heal it up. The Lord loves running away from the heals. Sort of like how players love running out of healing circles.

Only thiefs can’t do it
All classes can with non elite… so with a shorter cd….easier to remplace it after 15 to 40s
Only warrior is forced on an elite
Also ranger but he have 2 ways to do it : an elite and a non elite

Perhaps people should look a bit more about their skills and the game

In my opinion in no way is this working as intended. You cannot be expected to kill enemies pooring into a keep non stop whilst also having to defeat/defend against the keep lord multiple times, due to him being instant rezzed with the rezzer putting himself in limited danger.

I’m pretty sure it works with the ranger spirit elite too.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/is-insta-rezzing-a-keep-lord-intended/first#content

Offski.4897:

In my opinion in no way is this working as intended. You cannot be expected to kill enemies pooring into a keep non stop whilst also having to defeat/defend against the keep lord multiple times, due to him being instant rezzed with the rezzer putting himself in limited danger.

I’ll second that. The thing you should keep in mind is that this skill balance of having long cd etc you are talking about doesn’t scale well.

I have a 45min video of our team in enemy Garrison lord room. Consider this: for 45 minutes we were there alive destroying all the waves pouring from resp and through the WP (which is btw a separate and serious issue but it should be fixed soon). They are wiping for 45 minutes, we are holding the ground at lord room. Shouldn’t this be reflected somehow in keep capping progress and rewarded? Sure, you have capping progress bar gradually filling tick by tick. But with constant Lord insta-res by kamikaze doctors and progress reset as a result, this is all hopeless. Because at some point you just get tired. While enemy just keeps running at you half-naked like hordes of zombies.

It may be intended by Anet or not. But this should not be happening IMO. If it is intended, we who disagree with such mechanics ask them to reconsider.

Definitely not an exploit. It says it rezzes NPCs in the description. NPCs don’t have downed mode so it’s obvious the downed mode statement applyies to players, whilst NPCs can be revived from dead form.

working as intended
This can also be achieved with engineers + elixir R btw. (although you need 2 engineers instead of one for this), but their range revival can range from 84s cooldown to 120s depending on traits.

So its not really a crime that’s based on warriors alone, but every class that has a form of range revival.

Only thing I can say is push out of the lords room and do a complete wipe, and don’t just stand in the circle staring at the enemy.

Offski.4897:

In my opinion in no way is this working as intended. You cannot be expected to kill enemies pooring into a keep non stop whilst also having to defeat/defend against the keep lord multiple times, due to him being instant rezzed with the rezzer putting himself in limited danger.

LoL you are still at it, L2P issue, working as intended.

Just out of curiosity, what is considered a downed NPC. Don’t all NPC’s go right to the defeated stage?

boondocksaint.6529:

Just out of curiosity, what is considered a downed NPC. Don’t all NPC’s go right to the defeated stage?

If you’ve been the ascalonian fractal. Not all the npc are rezzable. This is not with banners or anything. I guess those are considered ingame mechanics as defeated npc. And rezzable npc’s are the once that re considered as downed. I’m not 100% sure on this though

“For friendly NPCs who are capable of being revived, the banner considers Defeated status as Downed status”.

When these threads pop up I always wonder if the people who consider them exploits simply never played with the skills that do this. When I run around in open world PvE I often bring the spirit elite solely for this purpose. Reviving lots of NPCs at an event or cap all at once feels like something an elite should do. It’s very situational and it’s not an instant win, but it’s how these skills function.

I don’t even consider it clever. Sure, resetting the tick on the circle can be really annoying (especially during those zerg rush defenses on keeps next to spawns) but actually bringing the lord back isn’t that big of a deal. If you have enough people to capture a keep, you have enough people to kill a keep lord no problem, he doesn’t even come back at full health and he won’t have the buff or anything.

When I hear people desperately wanting someone to use skill to revive a keep lord I keep wondering why, very rarely will it ever turn the tide in a battle any more than another elite skill.

This skill is working as intended and honestly, if you can’t shrug off a Keep Lord res (outside of a very specific situation where you fight for 30+ minutes to get the capture bar to fill and someone resets it) I don’t understand how you killed him in the first place, let alone hope to capture the keep.

Shiren.9532:

When these threads pop up I always wonder if the people who consider them exploits simply never played with the skills that do this. When I run around in open world PvE I often bring the spirit elite solely for this purpose. Reviving lots of NPCs at an event or cap all at once feels like something an elite should do. It’s very situational and it’s not an instant win, but it’s how these skills function.

I don’t even consider it clever. Sure, resetting the tick on the circle can be really annoying (especially during those zerg rush defenses on keeps next to spawns) but actually bringing the lord back isn’t that big of a deal. If you have enough people to capture a keep, you have enough people to kill a keep lord no problem, he doesn’t even come back at full health and he won’t have the buff or anything.

When I hear people desperately wanting someone to use skill to revive a keep lord I keep wondering why, very rarely will it ever turn the tide in a battle any more than another elite skill.

This skill is working as intended and honestly, if you can’t shrug off a Keep Lord res (outside of a very specific situation where you fight for 30+ minutes to get the capture bar to fill and someone resets it) I don’t understand how you killed him in the first place, let alone hope to capture the keep.

The specific fight most Desolation people are raging about (in the old t1 thread) was a Garrison, with a waypoint, assault.
They ressed the keep lord 6 times, including 1 time where we just needed 1 more tick to capture and the res completely reset the bar.

This over the course of about 10-15 minutes i think it was.

When we realised what they were doing, people were trying to drag the lord to the center of the room (he wouldnt move because some people werent listening and then he died again, he was in an extremely accessible place if you jumped down from ramparts for example), and aoe all around his corpse (didn’t change the tiniest bit).

I’m not angry about the situation/fight/whatever, but claiming people are silly for being frustrated when something like that happens, That is silly.

PS: I don’t think it was an exploit, or needs to be changed omg, but kitten that was frustrating.

Senseless post/thread.

This is L2P issue, end of story.

next we will be complaining that other classes can heal the keep lord -.-

username.4932:

This is L2P issue, end of story.

No, this is an issue with balance not scaling well. There’s actually a number of issues of this type in GW2 in my opinion. Not in “bug” category, more in a “fine-tuning” or “suggestion” one.

No this is pure L2P issue (there are many successful tactics to counter this), balance is perfectly fine on this point.

username.4932:

No this is pure L2P issue (there are many successful tactics to counter this), balance is perfectly fine on this point.

i would like to hear what anet have to say about this not some nobody on the forums

username.4932:

No this is pure L2P issue (there are many successful tactics to counter this), balance is perfectly fine on this point.

You must never been in situations described above as a reason for concern about this mechanics. To just survive in these kinds of battles you need to move constantly, to avoid majority of damage and to select best positions and timing for focused attacks. It’s not your “Right, we wiped them out of the circle, now spread at the center of lord room, land AoE around and make sure nothing hostile gets close to that corpse” or “Hey private, your group guards this corpse while we steamroll enemy remainings around” kinds of scenarios.

You cannot guard static object, survive, and destroy your enemy at the same time in these kinds of situations with constant enemy incs. You’ll be overwhelmed and wiped floor with.

Given the amount of culling you get in large scale battles, it is even less possible.

username.4932:

No this is pure L2P issue (there are many successful tactics to counter this), balance is perfectly fine on this point.

you clearly have never been in the situation yourself.

DavidMonthen.4398:

username.4932:

No this is pure L2P issue (there are many successful tactics to counter this), balance is perfectly fine on this point.

you clearly have never been in the situation yourself.

True that, He use to take empty keep/towers when enemies are in bed/work.

This is obvious l2p issues, coz he needs 30 ppl and 6 golem to get that keep with 3 defenders inside.

Haha obvious troll is not so obvious it seems

Indeed it’s frustrating, when you got to get the progressbar ticking again. And with the endless flow of enemies coming due the Waypoint running your forces can’t keep up for that long.

And yes in the specific battle after sieging that garrison for 3 hours and beating their defending zergs time after time. This was quite dissapointing.

But guess we won’t know if it is intended or not until there will be an official post about it.

Offtopic:

Haha obvious troll is not so obvious it seems

Seems trolling is all you can (seeing your replies to other threads aswell).

To be clear, I didn’t take part in that recent Garrison siege everyone else from Deso seems to be referring to. I’m talking about my experience during a number of earlier battles of same scale both in Garrison and in other keeps.

Masori.3528:

Seems trolling is all you can (seeing your replies to other threads aswell).

1/10 really poor troll

Good use of game mechanics.

It’s most effective when the attackers themselves are “exploiting” by pulling the lord as far away from the circle as possible. They try to get him away from the crowds where they can kill him around a corner without interference but the downside is they now have two distinct areas to defend: the circle and the Lord’s body.

If they just killed the Lord in the circle, they could defend both at the same time.

Besides, the circle flips SO FAST that defenders often have little chance of turning things around at that point. A quick rez of the lord for a reset of the circle is the only hope they have of really drawing out the fight and giving more defenders a chance to show up.