Guild Wars 2

I wanted to bring this up because honestly this mechanic is only affecting the game negatively. For those who dont know, Righteous Indignation is a buff that the supervisor of a camp or tower receives for five minutes whenever you cap it. The buff renders him immune to dmg, at least that is the intention.
The problem with RI is that it encourages zergballing around the map, and running in smaller groups are simply not as effecient.
The problem is that the supervisor can actually still take dmg with RI on. The supervisor is only immune to direct damage, which means that condition damage will still kill him.
If you go for a camp with RI as a group of 5 people or even single-handed, it is impossible to kill the supervisor with RI. However, if you are 30+ people he will go down very fast.
Another issue is the fact that his attack deals huge amounts of dmg with RI. This is an issue when roaming in smaller groups or soloing a camp, if you are with a zerg however, you can seek shelter in the masses and someone else can take the aggro.

I know that this buff is intended to stop ninjaing, but i’d much rather have to stay and defend a supply camp or go look for ninjas than having to give up on a camp.
Either RI should be removed completely (favored) or the supervisor should be immune to all dmg including condition damage. That way zergs are just as useless as smaller groups, and splitting the forces would now be favored.

Another problem with RI is that it does not encourage defending the supply camp, because you know that a small group cannot take the camp within 5 minutes, and if the zerg should arrive you would be killed nevertheless. Therefore people cap a camp and immediately run to the next. This results in zergs circling the map without any form of combat.

I dont blame servers for running with a single huge group consisting of 50+ people, because i know that this is definitely the most efficient strategy as of now. But this needs to stop, there should NEVER be an incentive to zerg. WvW has to be about quality and not quantity.

Now if we could only get them to remove RI and uncap max targets on AOE we’d be moving in the right direction

Removing RI would be game breaking, i agree it should be immune to all damage.

I believe it should be kept the way it is.

A group of 30 players shouldn’t be brought to their knees by one guy.

And I don’t think it should be removed because than you will have a group of 5 players just hanging out at a supply camp you just capped waiting for your zerg to leave to cap it right back. This buff will discourage, not prevent but discourage, players from doing this.

But Dynnen, I enjoy wiping out people when they have the buffed supervisor. It’s more humiliating that way.

Honestly, RI is necessary. First, it gives a team a chance to at least get 5 min worth of supply before a camp is rolled. Secondly, it actually forces coordinated play. Yeah, zergs can be mindless beasts, but when your server is full of small groups running different objectives, that can be just as ineffective. Sometimes grouping back up to take back camps is a positive thing.

take 2-3 necro’s with bleeding dmg and watch him go down faster then your average zerg can

Oozo.7856:

But Dynnen, I enjoy wiping out people when they have the buffed supervisor. It’s more humiliating that way.

lol

Wicked.5479:

take 2-3 necro’s with bleeding dmg and watch him go down faster then your average zerg can

Retaliation also hurts him. It’s not really a deterrent to 5 people if they have the right classes and builds. Vulnerability allows him to take direct damage, as well.

Look, every decision is zerg centered. This wvw part is aiming more and more that way. RI is supposed to stop an easy ninja by a small group, but its useless vs a zerg, so people mostly wander around in a zerg. AoE – useless vs a zerg, culling – ninja zergs. portals and stealth walls – culling abuse by zergs. Top tier servers? oddly enough, zerg-centric. And now no ressing in combat – so more players = win. Sport ability? none. Is it still fun with a small group, yes but you’re always waiting to get hit by a zerg. RI had a purpose, but it wasn’t intended to stop a zerg – just a small quick solo ninja, which it does. But its just 1 more incentive to zerg up. Which makes sense really as zerg = more players = more customers.

Dark Aidget.3879:

Honestly, RI is necessary. First, it gives a team a chance to at least get 5 min worth of supply before a camp is rolled.

Unfortunately this is not true since a zerg can cap a camp very fast. If you have a zerg running around with a lot of swiftness your camps will dissapear just as fast as you took them.

I am usually soloing or camp-raiding with minor groups and even if there are other groups helping (at other camps), we simply can’t beat a zerg due to RI. It takes WAY too long for a 5-man group to bring down the supervisor compared to a 30 man group. Eventually the zerg will catch up and we will wipe.
I’d rather have a gameplay where splitting forces was the most efficient strategy. This would also help improve the general experience of WvW since culling and lag would be less an issue.

Now there might be ways for smaller groups to take down the supervisor, but there should never be a mechanic that requires a certain combination of builds. it is fine that people find ways to optimize the progress using certain builds, it shouldn’t be the only solution however.

I’m not sure if this is possible but what about having the length of the buff be based on how many people attacking him. If it’s a zerg, it’ll be the full length. If it’s just a small group then it could be less.

DivineBeing.2086:

And I don’t think it should be removed because than you will have a group of 5 players just hanging out at a supply camp you just capped waiting for your zerg to leave to cap it right back.

Exactly. People will be forced to defend the camp, if they want supply for a tower/keep. That’s the entire point. Instead of mindlessly following the zerg, capping camps because it’s a sure 5 mins of supply, people will be forced to split up tactically and defend key points on the map (ie. Supply Camps). This will minimize the incentive to create zergs, and force people to think on their own. Oh the horror.

Dark Aidget.3879:

Honestly, RI is necessary. First, it gives a team a chance to at least get 5 min worth of supply before a camp is rolled. Secondly, it actually forces coordinated play. Yeah, zergs can be mindless beasts, but when your server is full of small groups running different objectives, that can be just as ineffective. Sometimes grouping back up to take back camps is a positive thing.

Running in a zerg is not considered “coordinated play”. Not even close. And no one said you shouldn’t group up and attack larger structures. Of course you should! But without RI, smaller groups will also have an impact on WvW – unlike now.
Also, if removing RI would cause your server to split up in hundreds of small groups, then the problem lies within your server.

I would much rather prefer ninja-capping of camps, than being forced to run in a giant zerg. That being said, I honestly think that making RI neglect ALL damage, would be the prefered solution.

RI is meant to prevent a camp from being flipped back to fast because two enemies were hiding around the cornor. Same applies to towers and keeps.

RI fills this role perfectly well. But when a zerg comes around, they can burn him down with single ticks from conditions and the damage done due to Vulnerability. This is, imo, also fine. A single NPC shouldnt arbitrarily stay alive just because a timer says so, in the face over overwhelming opposition.

RI is fine. It stops small or single man teams from recapping supply camps immediatly, as per same rules applied to towers and keeps. But it doesnt stall an entire zerg for minutes on end.

RI really does not account for much with only a 5 minute buff. If a camp has been flipped by the time I get there the Supervisor will have maybe 2-3 minutes left. With proper pulling by the time I take care of the rest of the NPCs the Supervisor is ready for the kill. So at the most 6 minutes from the time it was flipped to the time I can flip it back, solo.

Terrahero.9358:

RI is fine. It stops small or single man teams from recapping supply camps immediatly, as per same rules applied to towers and keeps. But it doesnt stall an entire zerg for minutes on end.

This is the problem. There is no reason to actually defend the supply camp, since smaller groups cannot recap it before 5 minutes has passed. Therefore the most efficient solution is to group up in zergs.
If the supervisor was immune to all dmg he wouldn’t stall the zerg, because the zerg should know not to go there but to send a smaller group instead.

Theftwind.8976:

RI really does not account for much with only a 5 minute buff. If a camp has been flipped by the time I get there the Supervisor will have maybe 2-3 minutes left. With proper pulling by the time I take care of the rest of the NPCs the Supervisor is ready for the kill. So at the most 6 minutes from the time it was flipped to the time I can flip it back, solo.

I have capped camps with RI as well, kiting the boss around until it weared off. However, most of the times 2-3 people showed up and then i was suddenly supposed to fight 3 guys and a supervisor with RI, which is pretty kitten difficult. Soloing a camp can take a while, and if you have to wait for the RI to go off as well, the risk of the enemy showing increases.

Terrahero.9358:

RI is fine. It stops small or single man teams from recapping supply camps immediatly, as per same rules applied to towers and keeps. But it doesnt stall an entire zerg for minutes on end.

You’re advocating the zerg-mentality. You’re basically saying “RI is fine, because zerging is fine, and I like zerging”.
I won’t try and change your opinion, but you have to understand, that not everybody enjoys running in a laggy, no-skilled zerg-fest. I don’t, and thus, I approve of all changes that will swing the metagame away from zerging.

RI actually exists to prevent groups on opposing servers from XP farming objectives in WvW, i.e 2 groups of players systematically letting the opposing team stay inside Lord’s room in a keep for example, and flipping it back and forth for massive XP gain. The XP gain on camps however, is so miniscu that IMO it’s not needed.

Gab Superstar.4059:

RI actually exists to prevent groups on opposing servers from XP farming objectives in WvW, i.e 2 groups of players systematically letting the opposing team stay inside Lord’s room in a keep for example, and flipping it back and forth for massive XP gain. The XP gain on camps however, is so miniscu that IMO it’s not needed.

That’s a legit reason. However, making the Supervisor completely invulnerable with RI active, would solve this issue.

Adian.8756:

Gab Superstar.4059:

RI actually exists to prevent groups on opposing servers from XP farming objectives in WvW, i.e 2 groups of players systematically letting the opposing team stay inside Lord’s room in a keep for example, and flipping it back and forth for massive XP gain. The XP gain on camps however, is so miniscu that IMO it’s not needed.

That’s a legit reason. However, making the Supervisor completely invulnerable with RI active, would solve this issue.

I Agree. Making it completely invulnerable would:
.1 – Efficiently make a stance against Zergs. They would have to wait too.
.2 – Create strategic plays, when people would have a 4 minute window to lure invaders and go somewhere else.

If not scale it’s difficulty accordingly to the amount of players hitting them.
If > 15, full invulnerability.

Cheers

Not to whine too much but what RI says is that the game wasnt thought out well. Its a design problem and ri is a bandaid.

I agree with the OP, RI should either stop all damage or be removed altogether. This way zergs get a big advantage over smaller teams.

I also like the idea of removing it altogether, as that would indeed force people to actually defend their camps. If you are really afraid of camp swapping as an exploit you could make the duration of RI depend on the time since the last swap (and don’t put up the buff if the camp hasn’t swapped in the previous 5 minutes or something).

So.This thread is basicly QQ about how a big group can kill things faster than a small group.Totally unballanced.Remove ? /sarcasm off

Some ppl will just cry and moan until all is left in WvW is …idk .they removed pretty much anything by now,next thing is terrain considering some of the other threads. Lol at Anet is u guys keep listening to all these posts.

Actually, I’m in favor of Immune to all damage. It is what RI is by definition, and not immune to some damages.

graverr.6473:

So.This thread is basicly QQ about how a big group can kill things faster than a small group.Totally unballanced.Remove ? /sarcasm off

Some ppl will just cry and moan until all is left in WvW is …idk .they removed pretty much anything by now,next thing is terrain considering some of the other threads. Lol at Anet is u guys keep listening to all these posts.

No, it’s a thread about how large groups of players can kill an NPC that is supposed to be immune to all forms of damage.

Sovereign.1093:

Actually, I’m in favor of Immune to all damage. It is what RI is by definition, and not immune to some damages.

Immune to all damage is a really bad concept and should not be implemented at all ,or else WvW will become a last minute camp camping wich will not be fun at all.The current state works perfectly and i cannot see a bunch of ppl that cannot get a bigger group together should ruin it for everyone.A hge change like that will affect WvW in all aspects and will encourage griefing,wich from what i understant yoy guys are trying to do by tricking Anet in removing it under the false assumption that this is not intended.

graverr.6473:

Sovereign.1093:

Actually, I’m in favor of Immune to all damage. It is what RI is by definition, and not immune to some damages.

Immune to all damage is a really bad concept and should not be implemented at all ,or else WvW will become a last minute camp camping wich will not be fun at all.The current state works perfectly and i cannot see a bunch of ppl that cannot get a bigger group together should ruin it for everyone.A hge change like that will affect WvW in all aspects and will encourage griefing,wich from what i understant yoy guys are trying to do by tricking Anet in removing it under the false assumption that this is not intended.

Ehm. I think you misinterpret my intention a bit too much here. I’m not trying to trick Anet into anthing, i am merely sharing my thoughts about a gameplay mechanic.
And no, i am not mad because i can’t find people to group up with, but i prefer different playstyle than zerging. Unfortunately as it is now my prefered playstyle is not rewarded in any way, but only made more difficult with mechanics like RI.
I am pretty sure i am not alone with this preference, as i’ve noticed a lot of players tired of the zergwars WvW is turning into.
If you like zerging and think those battles are more epic, that is fine. However, there will still be a lot of incentive for that, for instance sieging keeps and garrisons. But there has to be something for us that do not like being a part of a zerg, and would rather have smaller fights.

Last minute camp camping would only encourage people to defend the supply camps. In fact scattering the forces and sending out smaller groups to defend would in this instance be the most efficient strategy, since a zerg would only be able to cap one camp.

graverr.6473:

The current state works perfectly and i cannot see a bunch of ppl that cannot get a bigger group together should ruin it for everyone.A hge change like that will affect WvW in all aspects and will encourage griefing,wich from what i understant yoy guys are trying to do by tricking Anet in removing it under the false assumption that this is not intended.

I almost can’t understand a word you’re saying, but I’ll try to respond anyways.

The current problem of WvW is, that running around in a huge group, circling the map, capping everything on the path, is by far the most effective strategy if you want to win. This takes no skill, no coordination, and attracts bots (there’s a reason people named it “The Karma Express”). Meanwhile, small, organised groups are almost completely useless, and are being forced to join up with the zerg, if they want to have any impact on the outcome.

If we wanted to gather a large group of people, we could fairly easily do so. This is not a problem. The problem is being forced to do so, in order to achieve anything. Would it ruin your idea of ‘fun’, if you weren’t able to follow a giant zerg, and earn easy karma points that way? Running in a giant lag-fest is not my definition of fun, and by the looks of this thread, I’m not alone in that opinion.

Also, I’m interested in hearing what types of griefing you assume would happen, if they changed the way RI works, or removed it completely.

Being forced to not be able to get supply in your keeps and towers for 5 whole minutes is really a really bad concept,far worse that the current state,since even a solo player can easily cap a camp and hold everyone trolled for ever.A server should be able to retake their things back no matter what,and if they can bring a zerg to do so only means that zerg cannot be attacking/deffending other objectives on the map.

Making the camps and bosses completely immune to damage for 5 minutes will only promote griefing and hacking like the orbs used too.I would rather see the buff removed completely and imo that wilol be a far better ideea than what you guys are suggesting.

Giving to a single player the ability to distrup and entire tower defense or upgrading is just gamebreaking.I am sure you all know what a d/d ele or perma stealth thief can do and they would do it forever.Is enough already that the dolyaks can be killed so easy by even a solo lvl1 character.

graverr.6473:

Being forced to not be able to get supply in your keeps and towers for 5 whole minutes is really a really bad concept,far worse that the current state,since even a solo player can easily cap a camp and hold everyone trolled for ever.A server should be able to retake their things back no matter what,and if they can bring a zerg to do so only means that zerg cannot be attacking/deffending other objectives on the map.

Are you actually in favor of zergs running around in the map, stomping everything that they pass by in 1 sec? Mind you tell us your server?

Making the camps and bosses completely immune to damage for 5 minutes will only promote griefing and hacking like the orbs used too.I would rather see the buff removed completely and imo that wilol be a far better ideea than what you guys are suggesting.

I fail to see how that would promote griefing and hacking. Care to explain?

graverr.6473:

Making the camps and bosses completely immune to damage for 5 minutes will only promote griefing and hacking like the orbs used too.I would rather see the buff removed completely and imo that wilol be a far better ideea than what you guys are suggesting.

Giving to a single player the ability to distrup and entire tower defense or upgrading is just gamebreaking.I am sure you all know what a d/d ele or perma stealth thief can do and they would do it forever.Is enough already that the dolyaks can be killed so easy by even a solo lvl1 character.

Removing the buff completely was one of my initial suggestions. Might want to read my post again.
I do not quite understand what you mean by the last section. A D/D ele would not be able to cap camps forever if someone just defended. And dolyaks being easy to kill is probably the only thing in WvW that makes running in smaller groups worth anything.

Adian.8756:

Terrahero.9358:

RI is fine. It stops small or single man teams from recapping supply camps immediatly, as per same rules applied to towers and keeps. But it doesnt stall an entire zerg for minutes on end.

You’re advocating the zerg-mentality. You’re basically saying “RI is fine, because zerging is fine, and I like zerging”.
I won’t try and change your opinion, but you have to understand, that not everybody enjoys running in a laggy, no-skilled zerg-fest. I don’t, and thus, I approve of all changes that will swing the metagame away from zerging.

Exegerate much? So what do you want? Supplycamps flipping side every minute or less? yah that will be perfectly fine. Im sure there wont be teams camping the same supplycamp, capping it over and over for insane karma/exp. NahBut, allow me to hyperbole as much as you did. Since you want RI to be gone, apparently you just want to farm the same supplycamp over and over for easy exp and karma.
Rediculous claims are rediculous.

RI is there to stop exactly THAT kind of behavior. But why does it bother you that a zerg can bypass it? How many zergs are running around a map exactly? And when they are busting down a camp, who’s wtching the keep?
And extra layers of drama are added, making it sound as if all camps always have a Lord with RI, and it lasts forever and only a zerg could ever possibly take one down.

Nonsense, pure utter nonsense. Only if you go after a camp that was very recently flipped will you run into an obstacle as a small supplycapping team. Well, there are 5 more supply camps around the map, aswell as 4 nodes for quaggans. You really cant find anything else to do?

graverr.6473:

Making the camps and bosses completely immune to damage for 5 minutes will only promote griefing and hacking like the orbs used too.I would rather see the buff removed completely and imo that wilol be a far better ideea than what you guys are suggesting.

We suggested that the buff should be removed as well. Please do read the thread before replying. Thanks.

Terrahero.9358:

Exegerate much? So what do you want? Supplycamps flipping side every minute or less? yah that will be perfectly fine. Im sure there wont be teams camping the same supplycamp, capping it over and over for insane karma/exp.

I kinda already answered this earlier in the thread. There’s 2 options here;
1. If RI is removed, smaller groups will have to defend the camps as well. That way, the camps won’t flip sides every minute, and an extra layer of strategy is added to WvW.
2. As I mentioned earlier, the most reasonable change would be to make the Superviser completely invulnerable to damage, when RI is active.

Terrahero.9358:

RI is there to stop exactly THAT kind of behavior. But why does it bother you that a zerg can bypass it? How many zergs are running around a map exactly? And when they are busting down a camp, who’s wtching the keep?

Who’s watching the keep? For starters, the guards and the ‘gate’ is. How exactly do you want my smaller group to invade a tower, in the time it takes for the zerg to kill a superviser with RI? We’ve tried this numerous times, and each time, the zerg runs us over before we can cap the tower – even with 2 – 3 rams. That bothers me.

I guess I struck a nerve when I said that you favored zerging. If that’s not the case, kindly explain the negatives of RI protecting from all kinds of damage.

Removing the buff is unrealistical since it will only cause karma camping and farming the event.

Making the camp completely immune to captures for entirely 5 minutes after the cap will be more than gamebreaking

So please ,what other options will you suggest?

graverr.6473:

Removing the buff is unrealistical since it will only cause karma camping and farming the event.

Implementing diminishing returns on the camps (if the same player captures the same camp multiple times in a row, in a given timeframe), shouldn’t be much of a problem. At least, it’s a solution.

graverr.6473:

Making the camp completely immune to captures for entirely 5 minutes after the cap will be more than gamebreaking

Please enlighten me. How is it gamebreaking?

graverr.6473:

Removing the buff is unrealistical since it will only cause karma camping and farming the event.

Making the camp completely immune to captures for entirely 5 minutes after the cap will be more than gamebreaking

To karma-farm a supply camp, someone would have to recap the camp. And if you KNOW that there might be a group waiting to take back the back, instead of running away immediately you search for them and stay to defend the camp. This has been explained a lot of times already.
I had not however thought about the fact of two servers working together to farm camps. This will definitely be a problem, but i do believe there is a way to avoid that.

graverr.6473:

Making the camp completely immune to captures for entirely 5 minutes after the cap will be more than gamebreaking

Please enlighten me. How is it gamebreaking?
[/quote]
Imo if you seek an answer to that you do not belong in WvW and you are not entitled to ask for changes.I will say no more regarding the issue.

Adian.8756:

graverr.6473:

Removing the buff is unrealistical since it will only cause karma camping and farming the event.

Implementing diminishing returns on the camps (if the same player captures the same camp multiple times in a row, in a given timeframe), shouldn’t be much of a problem. At least, it’s a solution.

graverr.6473:

Making the camp completely immune to captures for entirely 5 minutes after the cap will be more than gamebreaking

Please enlighten me. How is it gamebreaking?

My opinion is that if you seek an answer to that you do not belong in WvW and you are not entitled to ask for changes..I will say no more regarding the issue.

graverr.6473:

Sovereign.1093:

Actually, I’m in favor of Immune to all damage. It is what RI is by definition, and not immune to some damages.

Immune to all damage is a really bad concept and should not be implemented at all ,or else WvW will become a last minute camp camping wich will not be fun at all.The current state works perfectly and i cannot see a bunch of ppl that cannot get a bigger group together should ruin it for everyone.A hge change like that will affect WvW in all aspects and will encourage griefing,wich from what i understant yoy guys are trying to do by tricking Anet in removing it under the false assumption that this is not intended.

Are you accusing me of something? Hmmm you are heh? So, I’m not allowed to state my opinion now?

graverr.6473:

Imo if you seek an answer to that you do not belong in WvW and you are not entitled to ask for changes.I will say no more regarding the issue.

So in other words you don’t know.

If it has full immunity all it would do is basically put a 5 minute timer on the camp switching sides, this would in no way be game breaking. At most it would be annoying to the zerg that has to wait for the buff to go away before the karma train can resume.

Vilkata.4725:

graverr.6473:

Imo if you seek an answer to that you do not belong in WvW and you are not entitled to ask for changes.I will say no more regarding the issue.

So in other words you don’t know.

If it has full immunity all it would do is basically put a 5 minute timer on the camp switching sides, this would in no way be game breaking. At most it would be annoying to the zerg that has to wait for the buff to go away before the karma train can resume.

You do not understand..Smaller population servers relly in fortifying their towers and defending them heavily ,therefore by giving the opposition the means to completely negate without any means of recapturing the supply for periods of time into those towers will be utterly gamebreaking.Also will discourage any defending of the camps whatsoever for those 5 minutes since there will be no risk that anyone will ever take them back making the game even more predictable and dull.I fail to understand why a group of 10 ppl should not be able to retake their camp back after it was rolled over by a 50+ zerg,giving the zerg even more safety and advantage on the tactical plan.

My turn ^^

If Arenanet wanted pure invulnerability, that would be insanely easy to program. No camp guard should be immortal, but no camp should be steamrolled every five minutes.

Its pretty clear that none who have replied so far has ever created a camp buster party. Basically five players oriented at giving the supervisor 25 stacks of bleeding and 25 stacks of vulnerability among other Damage over Time conditions along with retaliation and maintaining it. The Lord goes down pretty quickly actually…

It is also clear you’ve never had a party of 3 – 5 defend a camp where the extra damage from the supervisor along with a ballista or superior ballista allows you to wipe parties twice to three times your size. There have been times where my group have wiped anywhere from 8 – 12+ players attempting to take our camp.

Of course if you take away the buff, then you will deal with anywhere from 1 – 3 players easily taking a camp. Seriously. If that buff is gone my team would obliterate most of those camps in a matter of seconds. Who needs a team? There are so many solo-builds out there specially among thieves to take a camp on one person.

Oh yes and if 30+ players have to zerg to that camp, it means that 30+ players are at one spot on the map, where only 10 can claim supply. I love how that buff proves just how mindless some zergs are.

Now I’ve played for a long time between Tier 3 and Tier 2, and have played in Tier 1 matches. Trust me, while the three tiers have the mindless groups that exist, what wins games most tend to be smaller, structured groups as well as experience and coordination. The zerg has its place too as having a standing army helps, but there are also zerg-busting strategies where groups of 10 – 12 can wipe the floor with groups of 25 – 30.

I like the buff itself. It gives camps time to survive and encourages that camps are defended as well. Its great considering most of the camps dont have walls to protect them and the time the buff has wards of mindless attackers and gives me a window to set up siege, buy an upgrade and set up a defense.

…and for those who say “Its just a camp” in such mentality. Camps are holy to war, without supply we can’t fight a war, mount a siege defense or win a war.

I agree RI is crap. Either remove it or make it a complete immune for 3 minutes. To people saying well if Zerg is at camp they are not attacking a tower, yeah I would buy that if you could t spit on a keep and two towers from almost every supply camp.

As of right now I have to agree with people when they say that There are to many reasons to run with the Zerg. It is over incentived RI bypassed by conditions easier with a large group, maps too small, to easy to Rez, etc etc. I’m not saying the Zerg needs to go away I would just like there to be more reason for small groups. Yes I run in a small group and you know what? I would gladly help the Zerg out if it was needed, with a change to ri and bigger maps small groups would be needed to take road guards and supply camps well the Zerg attacked towers and keeps. The Zerg would have its place and so would roaming groups.

Setsunayaki.4907:

Its pretty clear that none who have replied so far has ever created a camp buster party. Basically five players oriented at giving the supervisor 25 stacks of bleeding and 25 stacks of vulnerability among other Damage over Time conditions along with retaliation and maintaining it. The Lord goes down pretty quickly actually…

It is also clear you’ve never had a party of 3 – 5 defend a camp where the extra damage from the supervisor along with a ballista or superior ballista allows you to wipe parties twice to three times your size. There have been times where my group have wiped anywhere from 8 – 12+ players attempting to take our camp.

I have never been with a so called camp-buster party. But as i have already stated no mechanic should force certain build combinations. To me all that indicates is that the mechanic is flawed.
However, i have been defending a supply camp for a very long time with the help of ballistas, even though we were easily outnumbered 2-1. Using ballistas to defend supply camps is only viable at certain spots, and i must admit that the supervisor didnt really help at all, it was pretty much the ballistas that did all the work.

Setsunayaki.4907:

Of course if you take away the buff, then you will deal with anywhere from 1 – 3 players easily taking a camp. Seriously. If that buff is gone my team would obliterate most of those camps in a matter of seconds. Who needs a team? There are so many solo-builds out there specially among thieves to take a camp on one person.

Yes a group of 1-3 people could easily take a camp, but they can do that now as well if RI is not activated. With RI preventing all dmg all it would do, would be to prevent zergs from being superior to small groups.

Setsunayaki.4907:

Oh yes and if 30+ players have to zerg to that camp, it means that 30+ players are at one spot on the map, where only 10 can claim supply. I love how that buff proves just how mindless some zergs are.

That is not often the case with zergs. A lot of the times (at least at tier 5 where i play) there is plenty of supply, because people help with the camp even though they have full supplies. People run with the zerg to get easy rewards, not necessarily to help the server – hence the karma-express.

I wonder why they don’t just put a timer on the cap itself, then have the guards (if left alone upon respawn) go around reviving everyone. Too obvious?

DivineBeing.2086:

A group of 30 players shouldn’t be brought to their knees by one guy.

DivineBeing.2086:

And I don’t think it should be removed because than you will have a group of 5 players just hanging out at a supply camp you just capped waiting for your zerg to leave to cap it right back.

So what you’re saying is that you’re pro-zerg and anti skill-based smaller groups?
K.

I’m with the OP, we need to promote/reward smaller groups of skilled players rather than skill-less zergballs.

Small groups can easily take down the camp supervisor.

You get everyone in your group to spam attacks that cause vulnerability and then direct damage will work. We have a thief in our group that spams pistol 2 (Body Shot).

Our guild group with 4-7 people (1-2 thieves spamming vulnerability) flip buffed camps easily.