Guild Wars 2

Who, what

Roaming is roughly defined as small scale capture and combat. Typically consisting of 1 – 2 players, though definitions vary.

Players who adventure by themselves or with a friend(s) are prepared for and often seeking fights. Their builds will be meta or custom to suit their needs, usually with mobility taking top priority.

These players will capture small objectives such as sentry and supply camps, kill dolyaks and contest objectives if necessary. Depending on the motivation of the player(s), they may also attempt larger objectives.

Why

• Some players are more independent than others and prefer to have greater control over their goals.

• Boredom, practice, recording combat videos or to support their main zerg by counter capturing and contesting to split up the enemy.

• For most – just because they can.

How

An effective roamer is a vigilant one. Strong map awareness and in a constant state of seek and destroy. To survive for extended periods of time, they must be skilled combatants by themselves or supported by players they are familiar with. Their limitations are clear and they are familiar with when to retreat and when to commit.

Build, communication, knowledge and practice keep them afloat while the desire for the surprises that every encounter holds spurs them on.

Roaming is as much a part of WvW as zerging but it was not/is not the purpose of the game.

There are many players who are passionate about small scale combat, most who are driven by the hopes that Anet will bring a near perfect balance to their passion. There is no God. Your balance won't happen.

While skill is a great deal of what keeps a good roamer alive, build and the build(s) they face have a near equal say in the outcome. A good player can achieve victory over almost anything, but due to the rock, paper, scissor design of combat, even the best can fall to mechanics. This can be remedied with co-op, however the drawbacks of doing so are significant; One players decisions are not as impactful, effort needed to defeat a single player is greatly reduced, more players will avoid you, and the more players you are with, the more chances of having your positions scouted and becoming overwhelmed.

Many players have become frustrated with roaming thanks to powercreep and design changes in objectives over the years. While there is still a breathing community of players that enjoy the small scale side of things, a lot of these players feel betrayed or forgotten due to the aforementioned.

I’m sure everyone already knows all of this, but I just wanted to bounce it back to you.

That’s why it’s important to remember that having fun should be the #1 priority, not being the best there ever was. Don’t worry about what builds are broken, whether Anet is listening to you or if you’re making a difference. Adapt to the meta and use what you can to your advantage – no one ever said fights had to be fair. If you’re expecting balance, if you’re expecting your elite knowledge of all the nuances of every mechanic, you’re wrong, everyone loses sometimes.

So please, continue to play what you like, how you like, and get out there. I can’t wait to see all the new faces once Path Of Fire drops but most of all, I can’t wait to see those who are passionate still enjoying themselves.

With all that said, what are some of your most memorable moments roaming? What was your favorite time in the meta? What does roaming mean to you? And anything else you want to discuss! (:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

There are many players who are passionate about small scale combat, most who are driven by the hopes that Anet will bring a near perfect balance to their passion. There is no God. Your balance won't happen.

I’ve seen even people suggesting a magic buff that would detect when it was 1 × 50 and give that solitary the strength of 50 men, while weakening the 50’s.

Numbers is part of the strategy if a server / side (ignoring population problems) is failing to send numbers to a battle, obviously it should lose.

Any overpowered buff would turn a good roamer a god. I seen that kind of buff is Wow. The side with fewer players still loses but they act like a raid boss one shotting anyone that comes close. We did have a buff like that with bloodlust but it was mostly taken by the winning server.

quite an interesting read although I’m kind of surprised by the numbers estimate you have put out.

I mean I have totally been roaming in a past with parties up to 5 people, although 5 people could already tackle a tower aside from sentries/camps/ocasional player gank…

I wonder how would you call the groups that are too big to classify as roamers for your set of definitions but too small to be called zerglings or blobs…..

as for balancing – in my little perfect world, the perfect situation would be where the game discourages blobing up to anywhere like 50 players for one encounter while encouraging strategical split of forces into groups between 10 to 20 players.

although last time I remember fortifications serving as a force multiplier strong enought for such means people were complaining over stale gameplay and impossible to cap objectives…..

Havoc groups or dungeon groups are balanced enough that they can take anything on the map. They may have to run supply to take a keep but they have enough supply to set-up on the out wall. Not sure who came up with the name havoc group. Probably because their was a time with no sentry buffs so some groups could flip unattended fully upgraded keeps.

Roamer never have enough supply to take a tower unless they are high rank, so they can only focus on picking off the slow zergers in their pve specs or camps. I mean roamers do account for close to half of the warscore. They are the one the get bloodlust, keep your camps to upgrade keep to t3 and scout.

I actually view roaming as a form of bullying, let me explain. For one it’s not really rewarded with anything significant compared to being in a havoc group or a large zerg. You get low amounts of objective caps and not a ton of kills like you get in zerg, and thus you get low bags and low wxp gain. Therefore it’s not really supported by Anet as being the targeted activity that Anet rewards in wvw.

Second they usually pick players off who are trying to catch up to a havoc or large zerg. Granted, this does have some tactical significance for a server as this slowly reduces the size of the enemy zerg, but unless there are a ton of roamers, (which there usually isn’t because the activity isn’t well rewarded) it’s not enough to really turn the tide for a server unless they are very evenly matched.

Lastly the players who do roam, primarily kill other players who have zerg vs zerg builds which are not designed for 1v1 combat, which of course, the roamers are speced for. Roamers run builds that are heavy with toughness/vitality with tons of leaps and escapes or stealth so they can get in and out of 1v1 combat specifically at will, giving them a huge advantage over other players.

So in summation roaming is an activity that Anet doesn’t really encourages because it’s not very rewarded, roamers even have trouble keeping participation now. Secondly, roamers engage in pvp combat that heavy favors them and their one vs one speced builds, which means it’s almost never a fair fight for those with whom they engage and they usually escape and reset fights when they are put at a disadvantage. And lastly it has minimal impact on the PPT and the server.

So why do roamers engage in pvp that heavily favors them, is low rewarded and has minimal impact to their server? Because they like to bully others.

Ulion.5476:

Havoc groups or dungeon groups are balanced enough that they can take anything on the map. They may have to run supply to take a keep but they have enough supply to set-up on the out wall. Not sure who came up with the name havoc group. Probably because their was a time with no sentry buffs so some groups could flip unattended fully upgraded keeps.

Roamer never have enough supply to take a tower unless they are high rank, so they can only focus on picking off the slow zergers in their pve specs or camps. I mean roamers do account for close to half of the warscore. They are the one the get bloodlust, keep your camps to upgrade keep to t3 and scout.

oh so they call these “havoc” groups now? ^-^

as for taking towers….
it’s totally not like I did capped redbriar patch tower in a “party” of 2 people….

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

So why do roamers engage in pvp that heavily favors them, is low rewarded and has minimal impact to their server? Because they like to bully others.

there is an old saying, that if you ended up in a fair fight, you have already screwed up

also you are forgetting one detail in your analysis.
group requirements.

to be precise in here – there are an interesting lot of people whom does not want to hook up with coordinated dedicated groups, while they also wants to enjoy the “fun” provided by the area of warfare in the mists. if you do not like big groups or dedicated wvw guilds have too high requirements for your tastes – you agree upon working mostly alone. and when you agree upon having lower wxp rewards [getting participation up to t6 and keep it there is not a hard for a solo player as long as there is no party of 5 actively hunting you down] you start to build yourself upon concept of working alone and it just goes through.

also some does not really care about “rewards” from WvW because they do not seem anything of worthyness there….

I dunno why roamers don’t just spvp, the rewards are better and the fights are more fair and engaging. I don’t care if people roam or not but it seems like bullying to me, but If that’s what they want to do and how they want to play I don’t mind, I just get a kick out of players who roam and then act like they are amazing players, when the pvp is so heavily in there favor. Granted, some of them are good players but they also have huge advantages.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

You get low amounts of objective caps and not a ton of kills like you get in zerg, and thus you get low bags and low wxp gain. Therefore it’s not really supported by Anet as being the targeted activity that Anet rewards in wvw.

Pound for pound, I’d say roamers contribute more than people in a zerg. Meaning, pit 20-30 roamers on a map against 20-30 in a blob, and the roamers will gain far more ppt, have a better handle on what’s happening on the map, and bag more kills unless the roamers try to attack the zerg head on (assuming the zerg is actually capable and not just a blob of potatoes).

The differences with roaming vs zerg are just the loot bags and scale of the fight. Participation is not an issue and wxp is about the same. Killing an enemy player or taking a camp every 10min resets the participation timer. Roaming tend to be more relaxing for some small scale fights. In spvp you can fight but alot of players care about winning more than fighting (alot of rage in spvp). In spvp you can win every fight but still lose due to rotations. I always look at wvw as a slow build up of roamers into a zerg. Not every playtime will have a zerg online. Lately I been in alot of 1vx which is harder to deal with in HoT compared to pre-HoT.

@Trejgon I meant that you have to run back for supply instead instantly build siege. Running back for supply enables anyone to attack the siege. The time it take for super siege to destroy a wall/gate is close to the amount of time it take for a supply run.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I actually view roaming as a form of bullying, let me explain. For one it’s not really rewarded with anything significant compared to being in a havoc group or a large zerg. You get low amounts of objective caps and not a ton of kills like you get in zerg, and thus you get low bags and low wxp gain. Therefore it’s not really supported by Anet as being the targeted activity that Anet rewards in wvw.

Second they usually pick players off who are trying to catch up to a havoc or large zerg. Granted, this does have some tactical significance for a server as this slowly reduces the size of the enemy zerg, but unless there are a ton of roamers, (which there usually isn’t because the activity isn’t well rewarded) it’s not enough to really turn the tide for a server unless they are very evenly matched.

Lastly the players who do roam, primarily kill other players who have zerg vs zerg builds which are not designed for 1v1 combat, which of course, the roamers are speced for. Roamers run builds that are heavy with toughness/vitality with tons of leaps and escapes or stealth so they can get in and out of 1v1 combat specifically at will, giving them a huge advantage over other players.

So in summation roaming is an activity that Anet doesn’t really encourages because it’s not very rewarded, roamers even have trouble keeping participation now. Secondly, roamers engage in pvp combat that heavy favors them and their one vs one speced builds, which means it’s almost never a fair fight for those with whom they engage and they usually escape and reset fights when they are put at a disadvantage. And lastly it has minimal impact on the PPT and the server.

So why do roamers engage in pvp that heavily favors them, is low rewarded and has minimal impact to their server? Because they like to bully others.

its the good old Camper Syndrome, which leads in many game that try open “pvp world areas” be empty when that playerbase have all they wish.

In other words, this Syndrome occurs when a game places a big pve prize in an open X area thats is also open to pvp, so come the Uber-Lords of death who do not do anything else then spend all day there killing the poor noobs.

Now I don’t know how much things have obscured over the years since I don’t really pay that much attention to the organized scene anymore since my guild quit and what such people are talking about these days, but I do know over time the differentiation in the terms of ‘Roaming’ and ‘Havoc’ have blurred. If these definitions aren’t any longer accurate, feel free to clarify, but I find people use them interchangeably and you can never really tell what they’re trying to talk about.

A few years ago, ‘roaming’ was referred to as a small-scale crew dedicated to scouting territory far from the blob and killing other players in groups of 1-5 (depending on coordination/build) in any and all locations in the map. Most of this was done with 1-2 players. In roaming, objectives were not prioritized; the work of a roamer was to simply kill players and stay moving around the map to to report enemy activity. If there was a camp in the area, a solo roamer may elect to take it, but it wasn’t considered an utmost priority given the speed of solo clearance possibly warranting a response from other solo players or small groups. Roaming often consisted of thief/ranger/mesmer due to their otherwise lack of utility for the ZvZ fights.

‘Havoc’ traditionally was kind of the flipside; a small group usually of 3-8 players focused to work with deliberate synergy with the main zerg for the sake of PPT. Havoc squads had deliberate objectives in the best interest of PPT and cut down on as much excess bulk in their groups as possible to take virtually any structure desired at a reasonable pace. Denying supply via taking camps on cooldown, backdooring keeps, clearing T3 siege-laden towers for the blob to follow up with for an assault on the keeps. etc., or simply clearing out other small groups of roamers or havoc squads and being a general annoyance to divert attention or to keep spawns safe were some of the major goals for havoc groups.

Small-scale is mostly dead in GW2 because most of the existing profession design does not encourage fun or even skilled gameplay in small-scale. As OP mentions, it’s doubtful at best that these means of playing which have taken drastic cuts since HoT will ever be revived due to the changes which adversely affected the identities and efficacy of these players, particularly the Havoc scene, which quite frankly inadvertently housed a majority of the active and recognizable small-scale players, even if they didn’t use the label.

As the OP mentions, this is intended to be a fun way to play; the issue, and why so many people quit, was because those who fought in the mindset of havoc, which was intended to be useful, found themselves at huge deficits across virtually every aspect of the game, from the guild hall/buff level, tactivators, increases in un-fun and cheesy builds, nerfs to core, etc. Like the sPvP community, havoc groups were goal-oriented and focused on results. After HoT, a lot of the utility of the groups was removed, and in the context of profession design and balance, so was a lot of the fun.

What I find is mostly left of small-scale is gankers which is mostly the bile of the small-scale community that has no intention to really be productive except to take a larger number of players, typically with lots of stealth and FoTM builds, and focus down individuals or smaller groups, who flee at the first sight of a potentially-losing encounter. These are the guys who spawncamp and don’t move much around the map unless it’s to run away from being killed by a group of similar or slightly-larger size.

I enjoy listening to these people say roaming is bullying. It’s nice to see people who clearly have never attempted actual roaming chime in.

Personally roaming is anything from 1-5 players, with 5 being on the high end and the ideal being 2-3 if you want good fights (though I love solo roaming). Actual roamers aren’t looking for even numbered fights usually and want to challenge themselves to do group v X. Having played in gvg guilds at the height of gvg, I would easily say a good roaming guild is much more difficult to play in and requires more skill.

As for roaming vs havok. It’s about your group size and objective. Havok in my eyes is much more objective based and isn’t focused on fights. While roaming is entirely centered around fighting.

And for those who seems to think that all roamers do is pick off Zerg tails, by all means check out some of my guilds or others videos on YouTube. See if it’s just us picking off zergs tails.

Helly.2597:

I enjoy listening to these people say roaming is bullying. It’s nice to see people who clearly have never attempted actual roaming chime in.

Personally roaming is anything from 1-5 players, with 5 being on the high end and the ideal being 2-3 if you want good fights (though I love solo roaming). Actual roamers aren’t looking for even numbered fights usually and want to challenge themselves to do group v X. Having played in gvg guilds at the height of gvg, I would easily say a good roaming guild is much more difficult to play in and requires more skill.

As for roaming vs havok. It’s about your group size and objective. Havok in my eyes is much more objective based and isn’t focused on fights. While roaming is entirely centered around fighting.

And for those who seems to think that all roamers do is pick off Zerg tails, by all means check out some of my guilds or others videos on YouTube. See if it’s just us picking off zergs tails.

Idk I have lost some admiration for vT due to the level of tryharding a couple of your members have had the last week.

3v1 chasing a hammer rev with a bunker ele, berserker and a thief, that’s pretty disapointing for a guild who wants challenge fights. Or maybe hammer rev really is that op idk.

DeceiverX.8361:

Now I don’t know how much things have obscured over the years since I don’t really pay that much attention to the organized scene anymore since my guild quit and what such people are talking about these days, but I do know over time the differentiation in the terms of ‘Roaming’ and ‘Havoc’ have blurred. If these definitions aren’t any longer accurate, feel free to clarify, but I find people use them interchangeably and you can never really tell what they’re trying to talk about.

A few years ago, ‘roaming’ was referred to as a small-scale crew dedicated to scouting territory far from the blob and killing other players in groups of 1-5 (depending on coordination/build) in any and all locations in the map. Most of this was done with 1-2 players. In roaming, objectives were not prioritized; the work of a roamer was to simply kill players and stay moving around the map to to report enemy activity. If there was a camp in the area, a solo roamer may elect to take it, but it wasn’t considered an utmost priority given the speed of solo clearance possibly warranting a response from other solo players or small groups. Roaming often consisted of thief/ranger/mesmer due to their otherwise lack of utility for the ZvZ fights.

‘Havoc’ traditionally was kind of the flipside; a small group usually of 3-8 players focused to work with deliberate synergy with the main zerg for the sake of PPT. Havoc squads had deliberate objectives in the best interest of PPT and cut down on as much excess bulk in their groups as possible to take virtually any structure desired at a reasonable pace. Denying supply via taking camps on cooldown, backdooring keeps, clearing T3 siege-laden towers for the blob to follow up with for an assault on the keeps. etc., or simply clearing out other small groups of roamers or havoc squads and being a general annoyance to divert attention or to keep spawns safe were some of the major goals for havoc groups.

Small-scale is mostly dead in GW2 because most of the existing profession design does not encourage fun or even skilled gameplay in small-scale. As OP mentions, it’s doubtful at best that these means of playing which have taken drastic cuts since HoT will ever be revived due to the changes which adversely affected the identities and efficacy of these players, particularly the Havoc scene, which quite frankly inadvertently housed a majority of the active and recognizable small-scale players, even if they didn’t use the label.

As the OP mentions, this is intended to be a fun way to play; the issue, and why so many people quit, was because those who fought in the mindset of havoc, which was intended to be useful, found themselves at huge deficits across virtually every aspect of the game, from the guild hall/buff level, tactivators, increases in un-fun and cheesy builds, nerfs to core, etc. Like the sPvP community, havoc groups were goal-oriented and focused on results. After HoT, a lot of the utility of the groups was removed, and in the context of profession design and balance, so was a lot of the fun.

What I find is mostly left of small-scale is gankers which is mostly the bile of the small-scale community that has no intention to really be productive except to take a larger number of players, typically with lots of stealth and FoTM builds, and focus down individuals or smaller groups, who flee at the first sight of a potentially-losing encounter. These are the guys who spawncamp and don’t move much around the map unless it’s to run away from being killed by a group of similar or slightly-larger size.

Agreed with much of what you’ve said.

Roaming has greatly diminished since HoT release because as far as I’m concerned, it has become a lot less enjoyable for most. I know I used to roam a lot more prior to HoT, so much so it was almost exclusively how I played. Ever since however, I’ve found too often that I’m losing to mechanics and not skill, be it build or objective design like being marked on the map.

It’s still fun in it’s own right and I don’t blame anyone for playing how they do, but the community has changed a great deal since it’s glory days. That’s why I’m always respectful of players I see roaming about by themselves. I won’t 1vX them if the fight starts a 1v1 and I will usually let them live if I happen to win. I want it to be enjoyable for those that still have the determination to keep on keeping on.

I still roam and would say well over half that time it Solo. At times I might link up with another group roaming but will often break off as we go our own way.

I intercept yaks, flip sentries and camps, kill people trying to flip camps, report enemy movements, defend towers when i find they under siege, join groups that might be taking a tower and then move on.

It really has not changed as much as people suggest save when the populations spike or our server faces one well above it in numbers. I play a mixture of builds across all classes but am mostly on Thief or Warrior and usually use a power build. I have one core thief build that is Condition and a warrior build that is condition but rarely roams. (too slow)

I still have fun at it. The times it becomes less fun is when the populations spike. The UNFUN has little to do with builds I meet and more with just sheer numbers. I can adapt to a given build , or see it as a challenge to try and best. I just can’t adapt to a 1v5 and more

Roaming is the best fun in GW. Solo roaming that is. Beats the heck out of playing a zerglet.

Having fun is the only reason to play a video game.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I dunno why roamers don’t just spvp, the rewards are better and the fights are more fair and engaging. I don’t care if people roam or not but it seems like bullying to me, but If that’s what they want to do and how they want to play I don’t mind, I just get a kick out of players who roam and then act like they are amazing players, when the pvp is so heavily in there favor. Granted, some of them are good players but they also have huge advantages.

Why don’t roamers just sPvP?

I want to be doing open world PvP. I don’t want to sit in a bunch of tiny circles on a tankyass build 2v1ing enemies while the rest of my team loses 4v3 and gets Full Locked. I don’t want to use those silly locked runes and amulets sPvP has, I want to min-max my stats as I like and use combinations of runes and actually-useful sigils.

Also the only time I’d kill a zergling is when I want to refresh my participation. Actual roamers will look for other roamers and even or outnumbered fights. Frankly, I don’t take nicely to being put in the same boat as gankers.

And if you have a problem with gankers, just freaking change your skills while you’re running back from a zerg. Almost every class in the game has mobility skills they can use to avoid gankers (or in the case of Necro, just turn and kill them). If you can’t, you need to improve your play (because clearly, you died and were forced to run back, perhaps repeatedly). Don’t just come and whine here, because it won’t do anything except put me on the lookout so I can come bully you for real (I strongly dislike whining).

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I actually view roaming as a form of bullying, let me explain. For one it’s not really rewarded with anything significant compared to being in a havoc group or a large zerg. You get low amounts of objective caps and not a ton of kills like you get in zerg, and thus you get low bags and low wxp gain. Therefore it’s not really supported by Anet as being the targeted activity that Anet rewards in wvw.

Second they usually pick players off who are trying to catch up to a havoc or large zerg. Granted, this does have some tactical significance for a server as this slowly reduces the size of the enemy zerg, but unless there are a ton of roamers, (which there usually isn’t because the activity isn’t well rewarded) it’s not enough to really turn the tide for a server unless they are very evenly matched.

Lastly the players who do roam, primarily kill other players who have zerg vs zerg builds which are not designed for 1v1 combat, which of course, the roamers are speced for. Roamers run builds that are heavy with toughness/vitality with tons of leaps and escapes or stealth so they can get in and out of 1v1 combat specifically at will, giving them a huge advantage over other players.

So in summation roaming is an activity that Anet doesn’t really encourages because it’s not very rewarded, roamers even have trouble keeping participation now. Secondly, roamers engage in pvp combat that heavy favors them and their one vs one speced builds, which means it’s almost never a fair fight for those with whom they engage and they usually escape and reset fights when they are put at a disadvantage. And lastly it has minimal impact on the PPT and the server.

So why do roamers engage in pvp that heavily favors them, is low rewarded and has minimal impact to their server? Because they like to bully others.

You have to be kidding me. O_O

I don’t mean to sound mean Jumpin Lumpix.6108 but you may not belong on wvw.

I recommend PVE for you or Minecraft or Lego Star Wars.

World Versus World is the name of this game mode.

You kill, we kill, we all kill. It’s a blood fest of epic proportions and it pits you and your skill
against others ( unless those people blob, use siege, or a lot of condi.

Roaming is another facet of wvw and is like an art. Someone can duel /1v1 someone

and for some it’s tests / challenges their skills or approach.

Also I recommend chocolate milk to enjoy while you do PVE ,Minecraft, or Lego Star

Wars.

I’m just trying to help because you are blaming a game mode on the game mode. O_o

The Chocolate milk always makes me happy (A&E brand is the best) that or coffee, but

if you are getting stressed from wvw caffeine may stress you out and make you tense.

But then again you may just be talking about “gankers” who pick people off, but in a

way that is a teaching process. It teaches you to not let yourself get behind and to learn

your skills and get a better build.

Namer.9750:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I dunno why roamers don’t just spvp, the rewards are better and the fights are more fair and engaging. I don’t care if people roam or not but it seems like bullying to me, but If that’s what they want to do and how they want to play I don’t mind, I just get a kick out of players who roam and then act like they are amazing players, when the pvp is so heavily in there favor. Granted, some of them are good players but they also have huge advantages.

Why don’t roamers just sPvP?

I want to be doing open world PvP. I don’t want to sit in a bunch of tiny circles on a tankyass build 2v1ing enemies while the rest of my team loses 4v3 and gets Full Locked. I don’t want to use those silly locked runes and amulets sPvP has, I want to min-max my stats as I like and use combinations of runes and actually-useful sigils.

Also the only time I’d kill a zergling is when I want to refresh my participation. Actual roamers will look for other roamers and even or outnumbered fights. Frankly, I don’t take nicely to being put in the same boat as gankers.

And if you have a problem with gankers, just freaking change your skills while you’re running back from a zerg. Almost every class in the game has mobility skills they can use to avoid gankers (or in the case of Necro, just turn and kill them). If you can’t, you need to improve your play (because clearly, you died and were forced to run back, perhaps repeatedly). Don’t just come and whine here, because it won’t do anything except put me on the lookout so I can come bully you for real (I strongly dislike whining).

I never said I had a problem with roamers or gankers, I’m a spvp Legend so 1v1 isn’t anything new to me. However judging from these posts and watching the video that was mentioned, I am even more firm in my opinion that the primary motivator with this type of activity is bullying. Endless accounts of people chasing down zerg vs zerg players with roaming builds or those with not full ascended or buffs.

I really don’t care if you roam or gank, I tend to kill most griefers and roamers much to their surprise. I’ve even tired roaming on multiple occasions with full ascended, food, utilities and I quit because it was too easy and it felt mean at least 70% of the time. the motivation seems to be to Grief or bully others since the fights are almost lopsided in favor of the roamers.

It is true that the term “roaming” has morphed. It is now all of what has been said above: scouting, camp stomping, objective contesting, tower or even keep ninja-ing, and of course fighting.

In terms of fighting, roamers will do “fair” fights, ganking (I call it vulture style), pin sniping, back line assassinations, sneak attacks, silly stuff (ever seen alpha golems duke it out, Rock’em, Sock’em style?), all in the spirit of having fun.

Roamers think a lot about their builds, both solo and team, exercising their creativity. I’ve come across a number of effective 2-man teams taking out 4-5.

My own best solo roaming accomplishment was taking Anzalias Pass from the red team. Mind you, I play in t1, where there is no shortage of players.

My guild is comprised mostly of WvW roamers. We laugh when our group of 2-6 forces an EWP pull, calling a 50-man blob to save an objective. We feel sorry when we come across a newbie WvWer roamer all the while stomping them. We consider it vitality important when our Zerg is trying to take a t3 bay that our role is to camp between bay and the enemy garrison to try to prevent enemy reinforcements from trickling in. While we don’t mind playing along with the blob, it eventually bores us and we split off in our direction.

There you have it at it’s core for the answer to “why roam?” It offers freedom, creativity, flexibility, and ingenuity.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Namer.9750:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I dunno why roamers don’t just spvp, the rewards are better and the fights are more fair and engaging. I don’t care if people roam or not but it seems like bullying to me, but If that’s what they want to do and how they want to play I don’t mind, I just get a kick out of players who roam and then act like they are amazing players, when the pvp is so heavily in there favor. Granted, some of them are good players but they also have huge advantages.

Why don’t roamers just sPvP?

I want to be doing open world PvP. I don’t want to sit in a bunch of tiny circles on a tankyass build 2v1ing enemies while the rest of my team loses 4v3 and gets Full Locked. I don’t want to use those silly locked runes and amulets sPvP has, I want to min-max my stats as I like and use combinations of runes and actually-useful sigils.

Also the only time I’d kill a zergling is when I want to refresh my participation. Actual roamers will look for other roamers and even or outnumbered fights. Frankly, I don’t take nicely to being put in the same boat as gankers.

And if you have a problem with gankers, just freaking change your skills while you’re running back from a zerg. Almost every class in the game has mobility skills they can use to avoid gankers (or in the case of Necro, just turn and kill them). If you can’t, you need to improve your play (because clearly, you died and were forced to run back, perhaps repeatedly). Don’t just come and whine here, because it won’t do anything except put me on the lookout so I can come bully you for real (I strongly dislike whining).

I never said I had a problem with roamers or gankers, I’m a spvp Legend so 1v1 isn’t anything new to me. However judging from these posts and watching the video that was mentioned, I am even more firm in my opinion that the primary motivator with this type of activity is bullying. Endless accounts of people chasing down zerg vs zerg players with roaming builds or those with not full ascended or buffs.

I really don’t care if you roam or gank, I tend to kill most griefers and roamers much to their surprise. I’ve even tired roaming on multiple occasions with full ascended, food, utilities and I quit because it was too easy and it felt mean at least 70% of the time. the motivation seems to be to Grief or bully others since the fights are almost lopsided in favor of the roamers.

You’ve whined about the pips, you’ve whined about raids and now your whining about roamers. I’m sure I could stop in the pvp forum and fine some more whining there.

You must need some training.

My characters name is “the complainer” why are u surprised about this? The surprising thing that might throw you off guard is that I am actually a highly skilled/knowledgeable mmo player.

After 2k PVP games on thief I switched to roaming in WVW. Roaming (compared to PVP) to me is more fun and relaxing, and offers a open-world environment where I can choose to do what I want (be it flipping camps, contesting key enemy structures, cutting off supply, scouting, etc.)

And of course looking for challenging 1v1 fights. I often target other solo roamers that are running builds that I find challenging to fight against (DH, Condi Mesmer, etc.) After a good fight vs a skilled enemy player, I often invite them into a party and we end up dueling at that same spot for a couple of fights. That is how I improve my own skills.

Do I gank zerg tails running back to a fight, of course – but it’s not about me trying to be a bully (as another poster has suggested about roamers in general), it’s because it benefits my server zerg/commander. Those extra few players that I hamper getting back to their zerg could be running a lot of supply, or even tip the fight in the enemy server’s favor, etc.

Is it rewarding in game monetary terms? – Probably not, but I find it fun and therein lies my reward.

A lot “roaming” now is groups of 6-8 players building an absurdly broken group composition while hunting down PUGs to bait into a gank for an easy bag and +2 points. They are out there in different variations and they are not really looking for “good fights.” Of course, they will swear up and down that’s what they’re doing. Sure, that group of two condi mesmers, a condi thief, and condi warrior where the mesmer pops stealth while the thief baits out that player thinking it’s just a thief were just looking for good fights. Sure they were!

There are some havoc groups that do in fact take camps, towers, and try and contribute to the overall effort of the server. Depending on what tier your server falls in they can be very hard to find. Broken balance among many class mechanics and skills regarding small scale fighting has eroded the meaning of what being a roamer is over time. Will that change? I seriously doubt it.

Am I still a bully if I genuinely roam to look for other solo roamers (and because when I come home from work all my guildies/friends are asleep on the other side of the world)? Didn’t know playing a game mode as intended (war zone) where defeating your enemy makes you a bully. I feel terrible, I should probably uninstall the game and end my life.

Also these forums are to list problems that are actual problems and people give advice and possible solutions. Complaining just to complain about anything and everything blocks out the big stuff that actually needs looked at.

Main things that people want looked at mainly right now:

Skill lag in wvw when all 3 server are close to each other

Skill lag on the Siren’s call map for some people ( maybe it’s because a lot of people are on a map’s instance.

Help buying the expansion if it won’t work in the game or website

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

So why do roamers engage in pvp that heavily favors them, is low rewarded and has minimal impact to their server? Because they like to bully others.

As someone who enjoys roaming and small scale wvw play I strongly disagree with this and find it a bit insulting.

I wil firstly say how I prefer to roam. I always try to:
- react to rather than initiate combat with another player, unless its obvious they want to engage in a fight and I need to get the initial attack in.
- use objectives (camps/sentries) to set targets. I never roam aimlessly, I’ll always look out for the distribution of captured objectives on a map and decide where is the best place to flip camps, whether that means running around northcamp in enemy BL or flipping southern camps or whatever, there will always be a goal in mind if the situation arises that I happen to not run into any decent fights.
- on a similar note, I will join in with small or large groups trying to flip a tower or keep if I happen to be moving in that direction or there are no other good objectives on the map, but eventually I’ll get bored of it and move off in my own direction if it looks like a camp needs taking.
- not chase/hunt players who are obviously built/geared for zerg play or are upscaled, or at an obvious disadvantage – unless they have decided to attack me and initiate the combat or I am outnumbered and they are the squishiest target in a group of players attacking me. If an enemy is running past me not wanting to engage in combat I will let them go.
- on that note, when I am outnumbered, whether 1v2+, 2v3+, 3v4+ then as far as I’m concerned anything goes, I don’t care what build or gameplay the enemy is geared for in that situation, I will play to win/survive.
- but I will chase players who are geared for roaming even if we outnumber them 2v1 for example enemy condi mesmers.
- if I come across a good fight, whether solo or with one or two allies vs other players who are geared for small scale or roaming, I will abandon objectives to engage in it, even if it means juking back and forth for an extended period of time with no clear victory or failure in sight. Yes it might not be getting points, but in this situation I don’t care because the fun of the combat is more important.

Secondly although I can’t speak for other players, I will give reasons why I enjoy wvw roaming compared with large scale gameplay or even pvp:
1. Less lag – large scale wvw is not fun when the gameplay is not smooth due to lag.
2. Less screen clutter and unpredictable effects – I don’t find dying to aoes that deal thousands of damage any fun.
3. Ability to build gear exactly as I want, unlike in pvp where the amulet stat restrictions are stupid. For example I would run Viper in pvp but it’s either all glass or nothing. In wvw I can round it out with other stats to get the exact stat distribution I want for the playstyle I prefer.
4. No stupid capture points to play around – taking camps/sentries and having fights is far more fun than running around a tiny map trying to hold capture points.
5. On that note the freeform nature of wvw is more appealing than the rigid match structure of pvp. Maybe you’re in a 1v1 then 3 other enemies come along… what do you do? It’s stuff like that that I get a kick out of, you never know what is around the corner and need to be prepared for anything.
6. More individual control over skills – I don’t like the large scale blob or even medium scale gameplay in the same way as I don’t like high end instanced pve – I prefer to have control over all the skills I’m using rather than being a “skill” for a macroscopic entity consisting of multiple players.
7. Challenge – I enjoy the challenge of running solo or with one/two allies and especially running into outnumbered situations or with skilled opponents where what you do as an individual matters, either in securing a single stomp or surviving and escaping.

I know some might say roaming is dead for multiple reasons – supposedly “broken” HoT builds being one of them, however I don’t think it’s in as dire a state as it is made out to be. I build to be self sufficient when solo, in order to survive and harass, whether that involves objectives or players or both, and there is certainly a lot of fun and challenge to be had if you look for it and aim to challenge yourself.

Zephyra.4709:

Am I still a bully if I genuinely roam to look for other solo roamers (and because when I come home from work all my guildies/friends are asleep on the other side of the world)? Didn’t know playing a game mode as intended (war zone) where defeating your enemy makes you a bully. I feel terrible, I should probably uninstall the game and end my life.

I dunno, If u like chasing people who clearly don’t want to 1v1 and aren’t geared or speced for it, then maybe? I always feel like roamers can’t handle the minimal amount of fairness that is put into spvp, so they go to wvw instead to have a huge advantage.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Zephyra.4709:

Am I still a bully if I genuinely roam to look for other solo roamers (and because when I come home from work all my guildies/friends are asleep on the other side of the world)? Didn’t know playing a game mode as intended (war zone) where defeating your enemy makes you a bully. I feel terrible, I should probably uninstall the game and end my life.

I dunno, If u like chasing people who clearly don’t want to 1v1 and aren’t geared or speced for it, then maybe? I always feel like roamers can’t handle the minimal amount of fairness that is put into spvp, so they go to wvw instead to have a huge advantage.

on the other hand, our zerg is attacking enemy home t3 bay, and there is a mass fight inside, small scale roamers don’t belong in that fight, so stopping enermy zerglings returning back to defend their bay is legit play and not “bullying (lol)”

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I dunno, If u like chasing people who clearly don’t want to 1v1 and aren’t geared or speced for it, then maybe? I always feel like roamers can’t handle the minimal amount of fairness that is put into spvp, so they go to wvw instead to have a huge advantage.

How do they have a huge advantage when everyone else has the exact same build options? As for killing people who don’t want to 1v1, I regularly come across people who don’t want to 1v1 but they sure want to 3+v1.

As others have pointed out, wvw is an open world competitive game mode. As soon as you leave spawn, it’s clear that there are two sides who are going to want to kill you, whether by way of a big group, an individual, or everything in between. That’s the game.

Yes roamers who gang up on zerglings trying to rejoin the main blob are bullies. So is a blob chasing down one roamer, dontcha think?

@Jumpin Lumpix
Only bully is you trolling around in a thread made out of passion for a dying playstyle.

You guys can put whatever label or justification you want on it, but chasing down players that don’t want a 1v1 because they aren’t speced for it and u get no reward for it seems like bullying to me. It barely helps out your server and then the rest of the time I see roamers standing around in an open field waiting for people to come along. Seems like they want pvp where they stand little chance of losing.

Also saying that everyone has access to the same builds, while true the difference between a 1v1 build (which might it add uses stats and skills that were deemed op and were balanced out of spvp for that exact reason, or were balanced out because the goal is to hold an objective and not reset a fight a million times at your leisure) vs someone speced for zerg vs zerg, is like someone going up against a hand cannon with a knife.

Roamers are simply seeking unfair matchups and little else.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I dunno, If u like chasing people who clearly don’t want to 1v1 and aren’t geared or speced for it, then maybe? I always feel like roamers can’t handle the minimal amount of fairness that is put into spvp, so they go to wvw instead to have a huge advantage.

Every build and class has terrain or situations that play to their advantage. I guess you would consider the folks who run builds that are great at sniping players near tower doors as bullies towards those who cross paths with the tower?

Or, you know, maybe those who choose to fight someone who has such a huge advantage are legitimately the ones at fault? Why would you even try to engage at that point?

It would be like whining about condi roamers and having absolutely no cleanses when you eventually fight one. Are the condi roamers bullies too?

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

You guys can put whatever label or justification you want on it, but chasing down players that don’t want a 1v1 because they aren’t speced for it and u get no reward for it seems like bullying to me. It barely helps out your server and then the rest of the time I see roamers standing around in an open field waiting for people to come along. Seems like they want pvp where they stand little chance of losing.

Also saying that everyone has access to the same builds, while true the difference between a 1v1 build (which might it add uses stats and skills that were deemed op and were balanced out of spvp for that exact reason, or were balanced out because the goal is to hold an objective and not reset a fight a million times at your leisure) vs someone speced for zerg vs zerg, is like someone going up against a hand cannon with a knife.

Roamers are simply seeking unfair matchups and little else.

How about instead of being a victim, you practice and hone your skills so you can give as good as you get. There’s pride in knowing your class so well that you can handle anything you encounter, and it makes you an invaluable member of your team.

Every person in WvW has done 1,000 faceplants. Learn from them.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

You guys can put whatever label or justification you want on it, but chasing down players that don’t want a 1v1 because they aren’t speced for it and u get no reward for it seems like bullying to me. It barely helps out your server and then the rest of the time I see roamers standing around in an open field waiting for people to come along. Seems like they want pvp where they stand little chance of losing.

Roamers are simply seeking unfair matchups and little else.

i thought you said previously that you are a knowledgeable player and yet you are labelling gankers as roamers. the example I gave was a few people built for small scale fighting/roaming standing in the way between spawn and their defended t3 keep. we are not chasing them but in fact they are coming to us (there is more then 1 entrance to bay btw) roamers can actually win keep fights just by starving the zerglings thats going back to the keep because they died in the first place for what ever reason, yet they are also called bullys lol. thats where the enermy server should get their own “bullys” to fight the others.

are 40 person zerg bullys as well for chasing of 3 roamers at a camp/sentry?

I just roam to kitten off other servers. I claim every single camp/tower I can. I want them to know where I am. That is the fun part for me. I may die eventually but that is ok. Waypointing is free and so are repairs. You will know you have done your job right when they bring a big group for one person.

Jayne.9251:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

You guys can put whatever label or justification you want on it, but chasing down players that don’t want a 1v1 because they aren’t speced for it and u get no reward for it seems like bullying to me. It barely helps out your server and then the rest of the time I see roamers standing around in an open field waiting for people to come along. Seems like they want pvp where they stand little chance of losing.

Also saying that everyone has access to the same builds, while true the difference between a 1v1 build (which might it add uses stats and skills that were deemed op and were balanced out of spvp for that exact reason, or were balanced out because the goal is to hold an objective and not reset a fight a million times at your leisure) vs someone speced for zerg vs zerg, is like someone going up against a hand cannon with a knife.

Roamers are simply seeking unfair matchups and little else.

How about instead of being a victim, you practice and hone your skills so you can give as good as you get. There’s pride in knowing your class so well that you can handle anything you encounter, and it makes you an invaluable member of your team.

Every person in WvW has done 1,000 faceplants. Learn from them.

Again I don’t have a problem with roamers or gankers personally, I don’t care how you spend your day in wvw. I don’t care if it helps your server a ton or if your just trolling people and killing level 20s in greens. I’m just observing the motivation behind this activity and calling it how I see it.

People keep saying they enjoy it and that’s fine, but it also is what it is, and you might want to consider the motivations behind why people “enjoy” this type of behaviour/activity. All I know is that when I did it (and I did it well) it felt unrewarding, too easy and mean and also pointless.

Malerian.8435:

I just roam to kitten off other servers. I claim every single camp/tower I can. I want them to know where I am. That is the fun part for me. I may die eventually but that is ok. Waypointing is free and so are repairs. You will know you have done your job right when they bring a big group for one person.

not to mention that big grp corpus jumping and seiging ;D

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

You guys can put whatever label or justification you want on it, but chasing down players that don’t want a 1v1 because they aren’t speced for it and u get no reward for it seems like bullying to me. It barely helps out your server and then the rest of the time I see roamers standing around in an open field waiting for people to come along. Seems like they want pvp where they stand little chance of losing.

Also saying that everyone has access to the same builds, while true the difference between a 1v1 build (which might it add uses stats and skills that were deemed op and were balanced out of spvp for that exact reason, or were balanced out because the goal is to hold an objective and not reset a fight a million times at your leisure) vs someone speced for zerg vs zerg, is like someone going up against a hand cannon with a knife.

Roamers are simply seeking unfair matchups and little else.

I honestly disagree with what you’re saying, because I feel like you’re labeling any “player that mostly runs alone” as roamer, which is too broad.

That said, I acknowledge that the small scale scene is more and more filled with jaded and lame players that are just looking for easy kills, using a cheesy build and a cheesy more or less macro-ed rotation, mostly consisting in spiking out of the blue, nuking and running their kitten off if it didn’t work (which proves they’re looking for easy kills, instead of challenging fights). Should I also mention the grotesque use of emotes or siege tossing ?

That’s sad because some builds are very appropriate for that be it power spikes, condi spikes, or high stealth/mobility, and they prevent the small scale scene from having maybe slower builds but not so lame fight-wise, or fun to play. Overall, I think that brings undesirable toxicity in a game mode that truly doesn’t need it, and it kills the thing.

These players unfortunately exist, they should have left the game ages ago, but the last string keeping them on may be related to a “bully” (or just troll) behaviour. I wouldn’t name them “roamers” though.

My solo roaming consists of me getting outnumbered 9 times out of 10 (usually intentionally on my part because its fun and challenging), be it by Havocs, zergs I dive, or just other “roaming groups”.

There are a good amount of 1v1’s where I realize that the player is new or inexperienced and I down them and walk away. There’s times I have really good fights and I let the guy get back up and we PM eachother and duel for the fun of it.

I think that anyone that has been roaming for a decent amount of time is looking for surprising, engaging, and almost sandbox-like PvP in the sense of not having the ability to control how many enemies they will face; aside from utilizing mobility.

JumpinLumpix, as per usual, is completely wrong. No point in feeding into such obvious ploys for attention.

Jayne.9251:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

You guys can put whatever label or justification you want on it, but chasing down players that don’t want a 1v1 because they aren’t speced for it and u get no reward for it seems like bullying to me. It barely helps out your server and then the rest of the time I see roamers standing around in an open field waiting for people to come along. Seems like they want pvp where they stand little chance of losing.

Also saying that everyone has access to the same builds, while true the difference between a 1v1 build (which might it add uses stats and skills that were deemed op and were balanced out of spvp for that exact reason, or were balanced out because the goal is to hold an objective and not reset a fight a million times at your leisure) vs someone speced for zerg vs zerg, is like someone going up against a hand cannon with a knife.

Roamers are simply seeking unfair matchups and little else.

How about instead of being a victim, you practice and hone your skills so you can give as good as you get. There’s pride in knowing your class so well that you can handle anything you encounter, and it makes you an invaluable member of your team.

Every person in WvW has done 1,000 faceplants. Learn from them.

I consider 1000 faceplants as a beginner. Roaming ehhh bullying since 2012!

Is it also “bullying” to engage in 1v2’s or 1v3’s? Most solo players look for fights and kills, regardless if they’re easy or not. If the fight goes south, of course they’re going to attempt to disengage or escape and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

They’re also not going to stop and ask nicely if you’re properly built for a 1v1 before every engagement. That would be nonsensical, and they would get run over by the brainless blobbers in the time it takes to request a formal duel. Antagonizing the enemy, drawing their attention and becoming a hunted target is more helpful than you’d think. And you don’t have to receive loot to be rewarded. The rewards are the satisfaction that you demoralized the enemy off of your map, or took out more than one enemy at once, or diverted 10 people to squirrel away from their dorito.

By calling solo roamers “bullies” you’re making this out to be way more simplistic than it really is, effectively labeling something you don’t understand in a negative light because of your own individually biased morals you created.

Turk.5460:

By calling solo roamers “bullies” you’re making this out to be way more simplistic than it really is, effectively labeling something you don’t understand in a negative light because of your own individually biased morals you created.

Exactly, it’s far too simplistic. It’s taking the definition of bullying to the point where it loses meaning and can pretty much include all competitive activities where there are situations to repeatedly draw opponents into an unfavorable position.

Sure sometimes u find other roamers and then it’s legit 1v1 but the vast majority of players run zvz builds so by just simple numbers the fights are lopsided in favor of roamers, you also get almost no loot or wxp compared to a havoc or a zerg so the motivation primarily is to have pvp with an extreme advantage. And from the point of view of the person who is being attacked by a roamer it’s akin to bullying, since there isn’t really any other motivation besides griefing others.

Why not spvp where it’s somewhat balanced and there are objectives and it’s fair stat/gear wise. Instead it’s killing players who are completely reluctant for no reward. It’s like doing open world pvp in wow and being lvl 60 and fighting against a lvl 30, and the gloating about it, there is no honor.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Sure sometimes u find other roamers and then it’s legit 1v1 but the vast majority of players run zvz builds so by just simple numbers the fights are lopsided in favor of roamers, you also get almost no loot or wxp compared to a havoc or a zerg so the motivation primarily is to have pvp with an extreme advantage. And from the point of view of the person who is being attacked by a roamer it’s akin to bullying, since there isn’t really any other motivation besides griefing others.

Why not spvp where it’s somewhat balanced and there are objectives and it’s fair stat/gear wise. Instead it’s killing players who are completely reluctant for no reward. It’s like doing open world pvp in wow and being lvl 60 and fighting against a lvl 30, and the gloating about it, there is no honor.

Why do you even WvW if you prefer PvP?

Most of the people here do NOT want pVp and that is why they are not there. No one is stopping you from going to pvP.

Offair.2563:

I consider 1000 faceplants as a beginner. Roaming ehhh bullying since 2012!

I’m approaching 12k deaths on my main for the reason. #RoamerLife

roaming nowadays is just huehue i hide huehue i 1 bang you out of hide (or leave you with super low hp) heuhue i won.

roaming has hit new lvl in gw2 for few years now its more like ganking in some kittenty faction game where a high lvl is going to some low lvl zone acting like a complete boss knowning these lower lvls cant even tickle his balls yet he feels so good killing em.

u see when i roam i want good fights i dont care if i die, i can roam also with 1 shot heuhue build but i dont have fun like that evey1 can press few buttons out of hide and fight is done. i prefer to fight and have to use everything and try hard to not die.

if u roam for 1 shotting people id suggest making a guardian get a loot stick cus its far more fun and yields 1000 times more loot

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Instead it’s killing players who are completely reluctant for no reward. It’s like doing open world pvp in wow and being lvl 60 and fighting against a lvl 30, and the gloating about it, there is no honor.

A zerg isn’t going to pass up the chance to kill the exact same person the roamer would kill.

Ignoring for a moment that Jumpin Lumpix is ascribing behaviours and motivations to roamers that don’t seem to match the majority of roaming that I see in others and do myself, even the behaviour he describes is a completely legitimate strategy.

He’s described a scenario in which people built for zerging are trying to rejoin the zerg, but getting killed by roamers geared for solo or havoc play before they can make it. The people trying to return to the zerg are, effectively, resources who contribute more as a part of a larger whole than they do individually.

If one (or more) roamers can slow or stop the stream of resources flowing to replenish an enemy zerg, then they’re arguably helping their server more than they would by joining their own zerg. They’re cutting supply lines (players who bring damage, heals, buffs, clears, and actual supply), which is a totally legitimate and valuable strategy.

And that’s true just by assuming everything Jumpin Lumpix is accurate, which it isn’t.