Guild Wars 2

I realize there have been many threads on this subject over the years but I’d just like to discuss it further as it’s been particularly bad lately.

I’d like to make a few points before I begin, all of which will be stating the obvious so we can focus on the matter at hand rather than what we all already know:

Gw2 is a team based game.
Gw2 is not balanced around 1v1.
Roaming was not an intended style of play when WvW was created.
Some people prefer to be with the company of others.
Roaming is one of, if not the most, unrewarding way to play the game.
Dueling and roaming are two different things.

Now, the problem:

No one solo roams anymore. As someone who has been doing so for a very, very long time, albeit not since headstart, I’m finding it more and more frustrating to try anything alone. Unless you’re on T7 or 8, it’s almost impossible to both start and finish a fight as just a 1v1. There’s always either a zerg nearby or someone ready to tackle you from way out of left field as soon as you’re about to win. And if that’s not the case, it’s a group of 3 – 8+ “roaming”, which is the most common scenario. Now again, Gw2 is a team based game and it’s much easier to get things done in groups, for that I can’t blame people. Still, it makes me wonder why said groups are often willing to lurk around specific areas on a map looking for “fights” when really all they’re doing is ganking people. I have to question their motives if they’re not interested in capturing objectives or losing to an even fight.

No one likes to lose but apparently no one wants a challenge anymore either. I enjoy roaming because I enjoy fighting not because I enjoy winning. I get frustrated over losses as much as the next person might but I also enjoy the fight while it’s being had regardless of the end result. What I don’t like is trying to find fights and only ever finding small groups that will chase you halfway across the map. Let me just say that I consider people who do this to be ruining roaming and I don’t consider them roamers at all… By pairing up with people (excluding duo roamers, I’m talking 3+) you’re just further killing people’s desire to try anything without the help of a blob.

I beg of the community to do more things by yourselves and without groups… There are a lot of us out there that still enjoy a good fight but are too afraid to try because we’ve been discouraged by the constant gankings. I’ve pretty much given up on it myself thanks to peoples irritating behavior and what happened tonight is what inspired me to write this post:

The borderlands and EBG were being dominated by Dragonbrand as they usually are in the early hours of the morning so I decided to head over to EOTM for a change. I set out looking for some fights (I know, a silly idea in EOTM but I got much worse than what I had expected) and ran in to some… Lovely people… I got ganked, repeatedly, by small guild and PUG groups of 3 – 8 or so that would tonic form and jump on my corpse. I found a few uplevels by themselves but didn’t touch them as I was looking for fights not wins. Frustrated by the constant gankings I eventually caved and started zerging again and just felt depressed that that was always the only option no matter where I went… I’ve been on I think 10? Servers now and it’s the same everywhere. No one wants a challenge they just want easy wins. There used to be lots of people looking for fights but those days seem to have passed…

So if anyone is out there that still enjoys the exhilaration of a good fight, I look forward to meeting you on the field…

Roamers should be killed… ganked..camped..laugh about …cry over…and throw a ram on top of them

meltdown.5870:

Roamers should be killed… ganked..camped..laugh about …cry over…and throw a ram on top of them

Nice to see you flaming both in and out of WvW

meltdown.5870:

Roamers should be killed… ganked..camped..laugh about …cry over…and throw a ram on top of them

Why the hate at roamers, they ganked you outside your blob?

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

What I don’t like is trying to find fights and only ever finding small groups that will chase you halfway across the map. Let me just say that I consider people who do this to be ruining roaming and I don’t consider them roamers at all… By pairing up with people (excluding duo roamers, I’m talking 3+) you’re just further killing people’s desire to try anything without the help of a blob.

Wat? Going up against 4 people make you want to blob, lol?

I get that solo roaming is hard but a party is not all that illogical. Everything in GW2 is based on parties of 5. Yet in WvW you scoff at it, saying they arent roamers? I highly disagree. A full party is just as much roaming and seeing plenty of them is a good thing. You are supposed to be playing with others, not alone.

meltdown.5870:

Roamers should be killed… ganked..camped..laugh about …cry over…and throw a ram on top of them

Hahaha, someone is salty today.

Roamers are essential for WvW!

First they can easily solo a camp, no need for the entire zerg to be there.

Second they can act as scouts, informing the commander if they see the enemy zerg or a small enemy group trying to sneak to get something.

And of course third, they can take out enemy zerg stragglers. It’s not the roamer’s fault the stragglers fall behind their zerg, it;s your zerg’s for leaving you behind. And if a roamers takes out 2 or 3 stragglers, whenn that means a couple fewer enemy players in the enemy zerg.

Dawdler.8521:

You are supposed to be playing with others, not alone.

Says who? An MMO is just that, a massively multiplayer online game, multiplayer does not mean you have to be grouped at all times, if he solo roams and fights 20 other solo roamers over an evening then he is playing a multiplayer game.

1v1 in WvW means nothing and is the most brainless form of fighting. It’s 90% about what build you are running.

Thing is OP, when the majority of the roamers nowadays have abundant sources of stealth (either PU condi mesmers or thieves), most people, sensibly, think its a good idea to roam in small groups of 3-5 to avoid needless surprise ganks. Like that magic moment when you’re flipping a camp and, suddenly, 3 thieves and 2 mesmers “happen” upon you (and if you’re not a thief or a mesmer you’re very dead very quickly).

I truly think, based on my WvW experiences, that small roaming parties not only are a natural occurrence (have always, always, seen them. Rarely I see a non-stealth class roaming alone and, when I do see it, its a warrior with lots of mobility or a d/d ele), they’re also a perfectly viable defense strategy against frustration. You get to be with people (all those fun things that you can collectively do with dead bodies… fun times!), you get to have a chance against stealth if you don’t have reliable stealth and you get to flip things faster and more reliably, only advantages, as opposed to taking 2 steps and being sneak attacked by a thief (which is usually deadly for non-heavies because of thief damage spike) or a mesmer (which is just a nuisance if you have condi cleanse). Do I think thieves or mesmers are in the wrong for using their class mechanics? Definitely not, but neither are people who group up to do stuff for whatever reason. Are you allowed to seek fun and play (or at least try to) in a way you actually like (solo roaming)? Definitely, I hope so and same goes for other people. Which is why I don’t see a problem, you can’t simply force people to play in a way you expect or desire and/or blame them for not doing so (kitten you people, why aren’t you solo roaming anymore!?).

Honestly,
I had the same problem as you about a year ago,

Spend all day roaming around alone and hopefully I’ll get 2 or 3 actual good fights in for my entire playtime.
OR
I could go to sPvP, and have those same kind of encounters every 1-2 minutes.
If I really wanted to duel, any Dueling Arena has that covered too.

There is a game mode that caters far more to the “good fight” aspect of the game than WvW does, and I honestly had a /far/ better time once I just accepted that.

Mitz.5741:

meltdown.5870:

Roamers should be killed… ganked..camped..laugh about …cry over…and throw a ram on top of them

Nice to see you flaming both in and out of WvW

REXXXXXX my favorit Ranger….lol…im still at RoS …i spent all my gold to transfer there to excecute the hacktides lol…im grinding a lot to get back to my home sweet home… to do some Roaming.

Urfarah.2951:

Thing is OP, when the majority of the roamers nowadays have abundant sources of stealth (either PU condi mesmers or thieves), most people, sensibly, think its a good idea to roam in small groups of 3-5 to avoid needless surprise ganks. Like that magic moment when you’re flipping a camp and, suddenly, 3 thieves and 2 mesmers “happen” upon you (and if you’re not a thief or a mesmer you’re very dead very quickly).

I truly think, based on my WvW experiences, that small roaming parties not only are a natural occurrence (have always, always, seen them. Rarely I see a non-stealth class roaming alone and, when I do see it, its a warrior with lots of mobility or a d/d ele), they’re also a perfectly viable defense strategy against frustration. You get to be with people (all those fun things that you can collectively do with dead bodies… fun times!), you get to have a chance against stealth if you don’t have reliable stealth and you get to flip things faster and more reliably, only advantages, as opposed to taking 2 steps and being sneak attacked by a thief (which is usually deadly for non-heavies because of thief damage spike) or a mesmer (which is just a nuisance if you have condi cleanse). Do I think thieves or mesmers are in the wrong for using their class mechanics? Definitely not, but neither are people who group up to do stuff for whatever reason. Are you allowed to seek fun and play (or at least try to) in a way you actually like (solo roaming)? Definitely, I hope so and same goes for other people. Which is why I don’t see a problem, you can’t simply force people to play in a way you expect or desire and/or blame them for not doing so (kitten you people, why aren’t you solo roaming anymore!?).

I think it’s abit inaccurate to suggest that Mesmers/Thieves are the reason people don’t tend to go solo anymore. It’s not as if Mesmers and Thieves are the only professions that will repeatedly gank you; I have many fond memories of getting my kitten handed to me by groups consisting of neither of them. In MY experience as a Thief roaming, I very very rarely see another Thief roaming, and even more rarely a good one. Most of the time its Mesmers, and thats more due to the fact (imo) that Mesmer has longer stealth and better burst/the most frustrating condi build to play against in the entire game, lol. But the camp situation you described, whilst I agree is frustrating, is just as likely to happen if those guys are playing as Warriors, Eles, Engis, or whatever else, as is any other gank. Only difference is that you can’t really ‘keep an eye out’ for Thieves/Mesmers like you can with the others.

I think that the whole party thing is more down the game just being designed that way; you’re not exactly rewarded for playing solo, you’re rewarded for playing in a group because it means easier kills, more loot, less dying. Solo can be frustrating because you’re far more vulnerable to dying and it means having to constantly run away from, or run to, a fight. I’m solo-roaming less and less as time goes by for that very reason; I probably spend more time running around aimlessly looking for a fight or retracing my footsteps after dying than I do actually fighting, and eventually it gets kinda old.

I don’t think we should be discouraging people from partying up because there’s not really anything wrong with that, but I DO think it’d be nice if players that solo (or duo, that’s fun too) roamed could have some better incentives for doing so, because then hopefully roaming will be popular again, and having multiple ways to play is always a good thing.

Urfarah.2951:

Thing is OP, when the majority of the roamers nowadays have abundant sources of stealth (either PU condi mesmers or thieves), most people, sensibly, think its a good idea to roam in small groups of 3-5 to avoid needless surprise ganks. Like that magic moment when you’re flipping a camp and, suddenly, 3 thieves and 2 mesmers “happen” upon you (and if you’re not a thief or a mesmer you’re very dead very quickly).

I truly think, based on my WvW experiences, that small roaming parties not only are a natural occurrence (have always, always, seen them. Rarely I see a non-stealth class roaming alone and, when I do see it, its a warrior with lots of mobility or a d/d ele), they’re also a perfectly viable defense strategy against frustration. You get to be with people (all those fun things that you can collectively do with dead bodies… fun times!), you get to have a chance against stealth if you don’t have reliable stealth and you get to flip things faster and more reliably, only advantages, as opposed to taking 2 steps and being sneak attacked by a thief (which is usually deadly for non-heavies because of thief damage spike) or a mesmer (which is just a nuisance if you have condi cleanse). Do I think thieves or mesmers are in the wrong for using their class mechanics? Definitely not, but neither are people who group up to do stuff for whatever reason. Are you allowed to seek fun and play (or at least try to) in a way you actually like (solo roaming)? Definitely, I hope so and same goes for other people. Which is why I don’t see a problem, you can’t simply force people to play in a way you expect or desire and/or blame them for not doing so (kitten you people, why aren’t you solo roaming anymore!?).

I both agree and disagree. I’m not saying it’s wrong to roam in groups I’m saying it’s wrong to not want a challenge. I guess I just don’t understand the desire to only ever gank. I’m not talking about the groups that are going around taking supply camps and towers and fighting who they happen across I’m talking about the groups that troll around certain areas of the map and jump solos or groups smaller than them.

So many people claim roaming is dead and yet those same people are probably the ones that are always 5 inches from a friend to back them up when they need help. It’s fine to roam in groups and get stuff done for your server but if you’re looking for fights, and I mean fights not insta-gib solos for bags, then going alone or looking for evenly sized groups will yield a lot better results.

Maybe I didn’t word my OP perfectly but more than anything I’m just upset that I used to find lots of good fights once upon a time but now it happens only a couple times a day, if that… I don’t have a problem with there being an abundance of Mesmers and Thieves in roaming because when you know how to deal with stealth it’s not as irritating as when you don’t. I just get tired of people not wanting to actually challenge themselves.

I guess I’m just being stubborn but I can’t wrap my head around how it’s fun to always win with little effort. If I chase down a solo with a group/zerg do I feel good about it? Not usually… I just find it a lot more rewarding mentally when you put up a long hard fight against a skilled player (or even an OP build, especially if you manage to come out on top) than putting in minimal effort to bring down a person or two who hardly stand a chance.

EnRohbi.2187:

Honestly,
I had the same problem as you about a year ago,

Spend all day roaming around alone and hopefully I’ll get 2 or 3 actual good fights in for my entire playtime.
OR
I could go to sPvP, and have those same kind of encounters every 1-2 minutes.
If I really wanted to duel, any Dueling Arena has that covered too.

There is a game mode that caters far more to the “good fight” aspect of the game than WvW does, and I honestly had a /far/ better time once I just accepted that.

I’m never going to accept that PvP is the place to go if I want fights because like the people that enjoy dueling in WvW (though I’m not one of them), WvW offers more diversity and less focus on point capturing. It might be a lot less balanced and obviously more frustrating if you’re looking for a good fight like I am but it feels less restrictive.

Not only that but as I’ve stated in the OP, Gw2 is not balanced around 1v1’s. That’s why I like roaming… Because you have to be prepared for anything. Where as in PvP/WvW duels, you just re-spec for what you’re going to face and it becomes even less balanced… I’d rather go against someone who happens to be totally prepared to fight me than duel someone who would have lost but swapped a few traits and utilities before the fight to beat me.

I solo roam all the time, I’ll admit I understand what you are saying lots of people run in small groups now but you can still find the solo players out in the world. Also solo players can still capture camps and sentrys (shrines in the new map) or defend one vs 3 or 4 players.

zinkz.7045:

Dawdler.8521:

You are supposed to be playing with others, not alone.

Says who? An MMO is just that, a massively multiplayer online game, multiplayer does not mean you have to be grouped at all times, if he solo roams and fights 20 other solo roamers over an evening then he is playing a multiplayer game.

Says WvW. Yes, you are supposed to play together to achieve the goals of WvW.

I solo it alot, I like running around capping camps on my own compared to the enemy usually running around with 3+ people and port away when they meet me alone. But its a choice. I am willingly solo roaming. Finding 4 other peeps and filling a party would be alot more effective. Partying up, like we’re supposed to. Dont complain about things you willingly subject yourself to even though you dont have to.

The best form of roaming is with a group of 3-5 players, if you can have that, then you’re golden. Take camps, contest towers and keeps while your server blob is messing with the enemy’s blob, while getting exp, gold, drops and ascended mats. Run into a enemy roaming group? Then let the fun begin. Seriously, if you’re not doing it this way, you better try the Mists or join the K-train, otherwise you’ll definitely grow poor and starve on item/material farm.

Solo roaming has been losing flavor for a long time and now it’s practically gone outside of stealth profession/builds which sport the most unbalanced setups for 1v1 in WvW but can deal with 1vX situation very well. Even so, like it was already mentioned, it is the least rewarding activity if you’re only doing it for dueling or looking for 1v1’s.

Dawdler.8521:

zinkz.7045:

Dawdler.8521:

You are supposed to be playing with others, not alone.

Says who? An MMO is just that, a massively multiplayer online game, multiplayer does not mean you have to be grouped at all times, if he solo roams and fights 20 other solo roamers over an evening then he is playing a multiplayer game.

Says WvW. Yes, you are supposed to play together to achieve the goals of WvW.

Nonsense, WvW says nothing of the sort, though feel free to show me where it says players are supposed to be grouped up at all times, if you are bothered about PPT, then a guy who solo roams (assuming he is the sort bothered about PPT) is one of the most valuable players on the map, certainly more use than yet another zergling, PPT inclined roamers take camps, defend camps, keep waypoints contested, kill stragglers, stop supply by killing dolyaks and give out scout reports, they are even more valuable off-peak, where most servers barely have anyone online.

Orochimaru.4730:

Roamers are essential for WvW!

First they can easily solo a camp, no need for the entire zerg to be there.

Second they can act as scouts, informing the commander if they see the enemy zerg or a small enemy group trying to sneak to get something.

And of course third, they can take out enemy zerg stragglers. It’s not the roamer’s fault the stragglers fall behind their zerg, it;s your zerg’s for leaving you behind. And if a roamers takes out 2 or 3 stragglers, when that means a couple fewer enemy players in the enemy zerg.

you misunderstand what roamers actually are, they are akin to gvg guilds. they are in wvw but are not actually a part of it. they dont have any interest in the team aspect of wvw and you are confusing them with havoc players.

this topic is why so many of us miss the old days in the obsidian sanctum. there was a complex map lay out perfect for stalking prey, bait at the end to lure in noobs but no other goal besides kill other players.

its the format that matters, just like spvp want to fight over the sumo rings, gvg wants TDM, the wvw player (does not care much about PPT contrary to popular belief) just wants to fight over towers/keeps in a defender vs attacker scenario.

the roamer wants fair and random as part of their scenario but with out objective. the border land ruins were created for this and they are used occasionally. as many other posters have observed the class imbalances are causing the decline.

I think the desert bl maps will provide a format the roamers will enjoy. everyone is hoping HoT saves this game.

Synosius.9876:

Orochimaru.4730:

Roamers are essential for WvW!

First they can easily solo a camp, no need for the entire zerg to be there.

Second they can act as scouts, informing the commander if they see the enemy zerg or a small enemy group trying to sneak to get something.

And of course third, they can take out enemy zerg stragglers. It’s not the roamer’s fault the stragglers fall behind their zerg, it;s your zerg’s for leaving you behind. And if a roamers takes out 2 or 3 stragglers, when that means a couple fewer enemy players in the enemy zerg.

you misunderstand what roamers actually are, they are akin to gvg guilds. they are in wvw but are not actually a part of it. they dont have any interest in the team aspect of wvw and you are confusing them with havoc players.

this topic is why so many of us miss the old days in the obsidian sanctum. there was a complex map lay out perfect for stalking prey, bait at the end to lure in noobs but no other goal besides kill other players.

its the format that matters, just like spvp want to fight over the sumo rings, gvg wants TDM, the wvw player (does not care much about PPT contrary to popular belief) just wants to fight over towers/keeps in a defender vs attacker scenario.

the roamer wants fair and random as part of their scenario but with out objective. the border land ruins were created for this and they are used occasionally. as many other posters have observed the class imbalances are causing the decline.

I think the desert bl maps will provide a format the roamers will enjoy. everyone is hoping HoT saves this game.

LOL what? I solo roam and most of that is taking camps to you know help my server. The rest is reacting to swords on the map and scouting the enemy zergs. I flip things like merc camps that no one else seems to want to flip and zergs just run through them but could have flipped it 10x faster then I can. I tap gates when we are hitting a big objective to throw off the enemy. Saying roamers do nothing for the server is nonsense and nothing more.

Don’t confuse pvp’ers as roamers.. I get jumped all the time and its just part of solo roaming. The people that want fair fights are playing the wrong game mode.

Fine call them roamers or whatever you want. I am defining a different motive. A label creates boundaries seperating one thing from another and aids in understanding. If im wrong let the op say so and we call them… Flying Squirrels or what ever.

I solo roam. A lot. At least while I am in WvW anyway. I never follow commanders and just scout or take camps at their request. I get into some 1v1s but I find more 1v2 than anything else. If I can’t win, I do what I can until I did or help arrives, I NEVER run, except to reposition or bait. I find a decent amount of fights personally.

@SpellofIniquity and @TheDarkSoul: I get what both of you are saying and, essentially, I don’t disagree with any of it. My experiences in WvW, having always been on HoD and never having joined a large WvW guild (I mostly know the players due to always seeing those that stick around and the times that they log on. That said, I usually roam alone or havoc in 3-5 groups with my ele, my thief, my necro, my ranger or my shatter mes and from times to times I join medium scale battles between 10-20. I always found 20+vs20+ to be too laggy and chaotic for my tastes, sometimes it can be fun, most of the times it doesn’t do it for me), are probably different from yours, which doesn’t make them necessarily better or worse, just different to varying degrees.

That being said, I think the combination of available “safe” builds and a general lack of challenge (or at least a change of pace) in the WvW maps generates/motivates this behaviour of just “going with the flow” in a lot of people. That and the fact that some people can’t deal with failure, like at all. Once I met a necro who raved at me because I escaped from him (while jumping all the time because, well, he was a necro, what was he going to do to stop me?) when he was trying to kill me near 10+ other people from Emily Bay. He was really mad because I fled and didn’t stay to die, because ele had mechanics that allowed me to flee, because I used blink and cleanses to toy with him and didn’t die (don’t blame him though, having played necro myself I know it can feel exasperating). And this is one case, I meet as many people who feel the need to insult others when they win as people who do that when they lose or feel somehow frustrated. Are they the majority? Fortunately no, otherwise my block list would be way bigger than it is. But from what I see this is somewhat telling, most people want rapid gratification, they don’t want a challenge or a change of pace, they want to feel good. And, frankly, things haven’t changed for the better in WvW for the last 3 years, the population is dwindling and only now we are getting new maps (which hopefully will be a good thing but I’m not holding my breath), I can’t really blame the players for this, this is more of a game development/maintenance problem as I see it. Until things change for the better, mechanically speaking, I sincerely don’t expect player behaviour to improve (c’mon people, surprise me and prove me wrong, I double dare you).

@TheDarkSoul: I agree with your point about good thieves but it can be applied to all classes, it just so happens that thieves and mesmers, since they have stealth, seem to motivate people to make less effort. From times to times players do surprise me, like a necro from NSP whom I attacked with my shatter mes the other day, totally underestimated her, which led me to blow my CDs in the wrong order and not pay attention to the environment, she used that to her advantage, held the fight for the longest time, peppered me with a gazillion condis and had the upper hand to the point where I would need to reset to survive but I ended up dying from an arrow on my back (most of the merit was hers though, she played her class and my mistakes well).

In my experience, I see roaming thieves ALL the time (and condi PU mesmer is the new thief now, ever since that patch. I gotta say though, I prefer to find a condi mesmer than a zerk thief, the zerk thief might be good and might surprise me and kill me with a burst, the condi mesmer… annoys me, that’s it. There wasn’t a single instance yet where I just couldn’t simply ignore a condi PU mesmer and move on). I used to see many warriors back in the cheese adrenaline (HAMMER STUN!) days, now I see fewer of them. I still see a fair number of eles (because d/d is just such a solid choice for aggressive small scale battles), a few rangers, fewer than I used to see engis and almost no necros and guards (and more guards than necros because they at least have some mobility). With some luck, the new maps will change things up a bit.

I still roam solo! The vast majority of my time in-game is spent roaming or theorycrafting builds to roam with.

I agree with many of your points. It’s difficult to finish fights without other players joining in, though this can be alleviated somewhat by luring the enemy to a more isolated part of the map. This is why I rarely initiate a fight; I always get the enemy to come to me. Surprisingly, most enemies will approach you if you don’t approach them; I’ve never really found myself to be missing out on fights just because I don’t initiate.

Being chased by small groups halfway across the map… story of my life. I usually roam on my warrior and whenever I encounter a group of three people or more, I’ll usually turn tail and run. Honestly though, I kinda enjoy being chased; it’s thrilling to have a sea of red names behind you desperately trying to catch up, their projectiles falling just short of hitting me. I sometimes wonder why people waste their time trying to catch a single warrior. Even on my own server, I just have to cringe when I see 10 or 20 teammates chasing after a lone thief or something. I secretly cheer for the enemy whenever it happens.

I run my M/S + GS warrior for two main reasons: one of them is the reflects. I have two reflect skills with one on a 10s cooldown). Perfect for LB rangers, PD thieves, and engineers. Mobility is the other reason. It’s sad to say that if you want to roam solo without getting frustrated all the time, you need a class/build with reliable disengage options: either stealth, mobility, or both. This is why necros and guards are the only classes I don’t roam with.

I’m on Borlis Pass, so if you ever face us, keep an eye out for a female Norn warrior with a Whispers helm. I’m always up for a fight. Unless you’re a PU condi mesmer.

/wave

While I empathize with your frustrations over the state of solo/duo-roaming, I think the problem has more to do with zerk-laden pugs that will AJ a fight whenever they sense blood. I want to shed light on why people do take an interest in small group roaming however.

There’s More Build Diversity

When you’re solo/duo-roaming, you’re shoehorned into ticking a lot of boxes, e.g., damage output, condition clears, stealth or mobility. For most classes, this necessitates a high amount of Zerk or Rabid/Dire and builds that gib people in under ten. You end up with a lot of cookie-cutter builds like PU condition Mesmer and D/F Elementalist that become eyesores to fight because of how strong their 1v1 offensive pressure is combined with their survivability. In small group roaming, a good 1v1 build isn’t the same trump card when you’re fighting 3-5 players. Weapons, skills, and traits that provide team synergy are a lot more useful. Suddenly, stat sets like Clerics, Cav, and Valk become a lot more attractive when you can make theory crafting assumptions like 100% Fury uptime, to give an example.

It’s More Challenging

You’re probably rolling your eyes, thinking how 3v1ing a hapless roamer can be challenging. In the same way that solo/duo-roamers often get chased by pugs from a zerg, small man teams often get chased by the entire zerg itself. I can’t tell you how many times we’ve been tailing a zerg only for it to reverse and chase us halfway across the map. It happens with SoR, AR, SF, DH, DB- every server. But to be honest, that’s what makes small group roaming so much fun. We fight outnumbered but not outmatched. The combination of our comms, builds, and teamwork often pull us ahead of the players running selfish builds that try to pick us apart. Every player matters and you either get better or get bent.

Moving Forward

Like solo/duo-roaming, small group roaming has also been dying a slow death. Players that are willing to work together have flocked to GvG guilds and sPvP teams. Many players simply are unwilling to put in the time and effort needed to be able to kite and survive zergs. Those that do face strong competition from other small man teams and often disband if they can’t trade wins.

I could try to have my guys refrain from picking apart groups smaller than us, even though nobody aside from [MR] will give us the same luxury. Have you considered joining/starting a small man team? That’s partially why I tried contacting you…

expandas.7051:

-snip-

You’re the only person I occasionally see solo from GFC otherwise the rest of your guild is exactly what I hate to run in to… Small groups/guilds ready to insta-gib anything that moves.

No, I prefer to be alone. It’s mostly being stubborn and anti-social so I understand that that’s my fault. As I’d said in the OP, I’m not saying it’s “wrong” for people to roam in groups it just sucks that that seems to be the only option anymore… I’m tired of it and I prefer to do things at my own pace my own way. I die a lot less when I’m alone than I do when I’m in a group because people don’t always know when to pull off. I just trust my own intuition over others.

You make a lot of good points but to be honest this thread is just venting/ranting about something I used to be really passionate about. I might not be an amazing fighter but I love doing it even if I’m only mediocre. I just find it far more exciting to race to the end of a fight before more people show up than to run for my life from a group or put up a feeble effort to survive a 1v2/3. It just doesn’t give me the same feeling of satisfaction when I’m with a group and we kill a player(s) because I don’t feel like it was personal enough.

It’s difficult to explain unless you’re in the same stubborn state of mind that I am. I can’t stress enough how much I understand that a lot of it is my own fault but that doesn’t mean people roaming in small groups and being afraid to lose a fight is also my fault.

I believe in being productive when I’m roaming by myself or with 1 or 2 other people, so while I frequently engage in fights against bold people, I also make an effort to steal camps and towers whenever possible. I’m being a positive influence on the map AND I get to have fun in difficult 1v1-2 scenarios (I’m a necro, so more than two is generally ending in me being cc’ed to death). Of course, this is in T1, so I have to be sneaky and aloof, because it only takes 1 scout to be crushed by 30 people. Still quite doable, of course.

I can see why it’s no longer an attractive entertainment option for a solo player after nearly three years of WvWvW being a largely neglected mode that’s the gutter for all of Anet’s eSports/PvE combat changes (see the hot and gooey condi stealth builds smothering small man fights).

I still solo roam alot….

Just because you don’t solo roam anymore doesn’t mean others don’t.

(There is a tonne of fights to be had as solo roamer, just be one of the few gamers who isn’t scared of virtual death)

WvW isn’t supposed to be fair, nor is it balanced, or even have structured fights, still in sPvP you’ll find uneven fights against things you cannot 1v1.
So I don’t know, in most situations there are better fights in PvP, even when people are fighting over capping points.

When I see many of these solo roaming videos, I wouldn’t even want to fight some of these guys in sPVP (bunkers), running high regen builds, tanky as heck with lots of mobility, nevermind the condition heavy specs and over the top zerker damage.

The unknown is just engaging to play against, which is what people play for, I guess.

EFWinters.5421:

1v1 in WvW means nothing and is the most brainless form of fighting. It’s 90% about what build you are running.

If by “brainless” and “what build you are running” you meant did you put careful thought into your build, what other builds it might counter, what it might be weak against, can it escape, can it handle conditions, timing all your abilities appropriately to fight the faceroll FOTM mesmer you ran into, can you pull off a 10 minute escape from the 5 players that chase you across the map… then sure.

Large group WvW is composed of might stacking through firefields and guardians, then running through the other blob spamming hammer cc and brainless ele/necro aoe’s like a bunch of trained seals with down syndrome. Maybe if you are super skilled you throw in a water field or a viel, wooo. stop, stack, blast, balance this ball on your nose, repeat until your commander begrudgingly approves of the performance and attributes the success to his “leadership.” congratulations, you’re a Red Guard now.

Lets not get into how skilled you must be for PPT, which is either a matter of PvD (cuz why take a defended keep) or who has the most arrow carts / golems.

EFWinters.5421:

1v1 in WvW means nothing and is the most brainless form of fighting. It’s 90% about what build you are running.

As a fellow DH servermate to the OP, I’m surprised they lasted this long “roaming.”

This is pretty much the conclusion I’ve come to after playing every tier. I used to do a lot of solo play, but it’s gotten to the point where pretty much every person you see who isn’t surrounded by more than three people has one of the cheesiest and easiest free-win builds out there. The meta of “roaming” is about countering the meta of “roaming” as hard as possible by removing the elements of skilled solo play. There used to be a lot of respect for solo players, but it’s long-since degraded, at least in my eyes.

I’ve honestly removed most of my associations from “roaming” to “havoc”, instead, and frankly, I’ve come to the conclusion that fights in the current state of things are just way better when in groups of 3-5, especially if you’re organized, as you can just tear through bad gank squads of similar and usually much larger numbers when playing well. I know my guild recently formed a party of four and ended up pushing our way through numerous groups of 10-15 and holding a huge number of DB pugs at spawn while the main blob flipped SMC. I’ve been also enjoying myself a lot lately as playing a front-line glass-cannon thief. Really fun to engage the zerg first at melee and with proper timing be evasive enough for a brief period to force all of their periph and front-line to blow everything because their commander just lost 75% of his health in under a second, just to disengage before there any real proper reactions :P

I’ve always kind of preferred playing on the periphery of larger things in small-scale rather than just strict 1v1’s, though. I do like a good mirror-match, but what I play is so far out of what most “roamers” play from even a weapon perspective that getting into those kinds of fights where it’s truly skill-driven is far too rare and frankly not worth investing the time and effort into doing for how rare they are.

Synosius.9876:

Orochimaru.4730:

Roamers are essential for WvW!

First they can easily solo a camp, no need for the entire zerg to be there.

Second they can act as scouts, informing the commander if they see the enemy zerg or a small enemy group trying to sneak to get something.

And of course third, they can take out enemy zerg stragglers. It’s not the roamer’s fault the stragglers fall behind their zerg, it;s your zerg’s for leaving you behind. And if a roamers takes out 2 or 3 stragglers, when that means a couple fewer enemy players in the enemy zerg.

you misunderstand what roamers actually are, they are akin to gvg guilds. they are in wvw but are not actually a part of it. they dont have any interest in the team aspect of wvw and you are confusing them with havoc players.

this topic is why so many of us miss the old days in the obsidian sanctum. there was a complex map lay out perfect for stalking prey, bait at the end to lure in noobs but no other goal besides kill other players.

its the format that matters, just like spvp want to fight over the sumo rings, gvg wants TDM, the wvw player (does not care much about PPT contrary to popular belief) just wants to fight over towers/keeps in a defender vs attacker scenario.

the roamer wants fair and random as part of their scenario but with out objective. the border land ruins were created for this and they are used occasionally. as many other posters have observed the class imbalances are causing the decline.

I think the desert bl maps will provide a format the roamers will enjoy. everyone is hoping HoT saves this game.

THIS!

I remember the good ol’ days in Obsidian Sanctum, when everyone fought their brains out to get to the top. So many good fights throughout the mini map. It surely was my best memory about GW2.

I solo roam sometimes, usually when activities die down a bit, or maybe after I’ve already blobbed it up for a few hours and needed a break. My issues with roaming is that too many people don’t respect a nice 1 v 1 fight. And I don’t mean getting run over by a zerg, that I don’t mind at all because it’s WvW, you expect it. Anybody who rage over getting their fights ruined by a large group should probably stop roaming.

But when you’re having a 1 v 1, especially one that’s initiated by the opponent, you expect to be able to duke it out with that individual. But too often these days halfway through the fight the guy/gal’s stealth buddies pop out and gank me. Often from the same guild so they weren’t random +1’s or +2’s.

And I roll a necro, so nobody can accuse me of stealth ganking on a cheese condi mesmer/thief. So people roll me over in 3-5’s when all I’m looking for is a nice chill 1 v 1 fight, that can get old fast. But eh, whatever. Roaming is definitely more lame these days, and it’s disappointing to see some of the duelers gank you 5 to 1. It’s like when they’re in a group they automatically have to act stupid or something.

zinkz.7045:

Dawdler.8521:

zinkz.7045:

Dawdler.8521:

You are supposed to be playing with others, not alone.

Says who? An MMO is just that, a massively multiplayer online game, multiplayer does not mean you have to be grouped at all times, if he solo roams and fights 20 other solo roamers over an evening then he is playing a multiplayer game.

Says WvW. Yes, you are supposed to play together to achieve the goals of WvW.

Nonsense, WvW says nothing of the sort, though feel free to show me where it says players are supposed to be grouped up at all times, if you are bothered about PPT, then a guy who solo roams (assuming he is the sort bothered about PPT) is one of the most valuable players on the map, certainly more use than yet another zergling, PPT inclined roamers take camps, defend camps, keep waypoints contested, kill stragglers, stop supply by killing dolyaks and give out scout reports, they are even more valuable off-peak, where most servers barely have anyone online.

Just read Anets description of WvW under game info :/

Not saying that you cant go alone – you can always go alone. Sometimes its even effective. But its still a choice. People that do 1v5 all day and then complain about all combat being 1v5 so thus roaming sucks have themselves to blaim, unless by chance the server population is one and the only guild there is kitten.

Dawdler.8521:

zinkz.7045:

Dawdler.8521:

zinkz.7045:

Dawdler.8521:

You are supposed to be playing with others, not alone.

Says who? An MMO is just that, a massively multiplayer online game, multiplayer does not mean you have to be grouped at all times, if he solo roams and fights 20 other solo roamers over an evening then he is playing a multiplayer game.

Says WvW. Yes, you are supposed to play together to achieve the goals of WvW.

Nonsense, WvW says nothing of the sort, though feel free to show me where it says players are supposed to be grouped up at all times, if you are bothered about PPT, then a guy who solo roams (assuming he is the sort bothered about PPT) is one of the most valuable players on the map, certainly more use than yet another zergling, PPT inclined roamers take camps, defend camps, keep waypoints contested, kill stragglers, stop supply by killing dolyaks and give out scout reports, they are even more valuable off-peak, where most servers barely have anyone online.

Just read Anets description of WvW under game info :/

Which says there are “three huge teams”, players can be spread all over the map and be part of the team, it also states the players “can band together to lay siege to castles, raid enemy supply caravans, clash with other players in truly massive battles”, ‘can’ being the operative word. And you know when the zerg lays siege to a keep, other than the commander, often the most useful person in the “team” is the player or two who are starving the keep of supply by taking out dollies/camps and keeping other waypoints contested.

Anet don’t seem to have the problem with roamers you think they do, when they added bloodlust they stated specifically it was for small scale, roamers, etc, or if you go read the post a few pages back from a dev (John Corpening), he talks about things like “Whether you defend, scout, run havoc, zerg bust, roam, conquer or win team fights you should be fairly compensated from the game and not rely on the hope that your team may kick you back some gold at the end of the night for you to feel rewarded for the valuable effort you put into the success of your world.”.

You’ve shown nothing that states people “are supposed” to be playing a certain way and should not be roaming.

Lahm.7056:

The best form of roaming is with a group of 3-5 players, if you can have that, then you’re golden. Take camps, contest towers and keeps while your server blob is messing with the enemy’s blob, while getting exp, gold, drops and ascended mats. Run into a enemy roaming group? Then let the fun begin. Seriously, if you’re not doing it this way, you better try the Mists or join the K-train, otherwise you’ll definitely grow poor and starve on item/material farm.

Solo roaming has been losing flavor for a long time and now it’s practically gone outside of stealth profession/builds which sport the most unbalanced setups for 1v1 in WvW but can deal with 1vX situation very well. Even so, like it was already mentioned, it is the least rewarding activity if you’re only doing it for dueling or looking for 1v1’s.

+10000000!!!

roaming with a few guildies is the best way to fight, sorry if you don’t have any friends op.

VaaCrow.3076:

roaming with a few guildies is the best way to figh

The sad truth about the state of roaming in WvW (other than maybe the first 12 months or so of the game), is whether you roam solo or as a group, the number of decent fights you typically get over an hour is pitiful, it is so bad you are better off playing hotjoin.

So unless as a roamer / small group you are a full PvE PPT hero and don’t actually care about getting decent fights so are fine rolling your face across the keyboard spending most of your time ganking lesser numbers, people in zerg builds or running away from blobs, then the “best way to fight” is to go play PvP or play another MMO that has real open world PvP, where most of the players on the map are not in zergs, towers, etc, and actually want to fight small scale, which is exactly what most roamers / roaming guilds have done.

Solo roaming isn’t hard and it is not even challenging on the lower tier servers. Of course the only class you will face are mesmers on the lower tiers. Especially for ET, as soon as you step foot anywhere outside of any exit you have you will find a couple mesmers/thief gank roamers waiting for you.

I saw an engineer (enemy) last night and I wanted to hug him. It was the first class I had seen not a mesmer or thief gank roamer or blob in weeks.

Anything 5 and below is still roaming. More than that and it’s just no fun anymore.

My server, borliss pass doesn’t have enough roamers.

Our core community is good at sticking with a queue blob or their guild. Roamers are killing us. The few roamers we’ve got can barely keep our own camps flipped & it’s killing us.

Not to mention that a home borderlands with 3 enemy controlled camps is just a green light for enemy commanders.

If you are a roamer and want to go where you’ll be appreciated. BP!

SoI, it’s been too long… Join me on far Shiverpeaks we have great roaming here o/

Didn’t read any of this.

I know for a while (and it isn’t always the case) but in Tier 2 at least…and even Tier 3 (back when DB was ascending and before YB had bought a bunch of guilds to ascend)

There were servers who were….for lack of a better word, talentless…their members for whatever reason were terrible. absolutely terrible.
1v1? no…they couldn’t, there were just hordes of horrible players. But they did well whenever giant globs of them came along.

then there were servers with much lower populations, but that had much more high-skilled players.

This made roaming interesting.

however, with specializations/transfers/over time blah blah blah…that just isn’t the case anymore. Even servers with high skill level players aren’t roaming around, they’re forming groups…because It’s very hard to fight globs.

This is also because Tier 1 is the only tier until like 4 or 5 where the servers have similar populations.

Tier 2 is occupied currently by fort aspenwood (relatively low it seems) and SoS (also relatively low) compared to recent drop-downs from Tier 1 blackgate and Tarnished coast (who have many more people on at any given time.)

This is not taking into account prime-time or anything, just the average.

I used to roam on my mesmer

I no longer play my mesmer.
I just throw on a staff and run around on my ele.

I feel kinda spoiled tbh. I’ve had some pretty good roaming the past few months on AR. Yes, I know it’s Tier I don’t care, but I do find it much more fun and opportunity is better than my T3 account.

I face just about every class in game so not sure why all the fuss about mesmers and thiefs. I mainly play necro and realize I’m the most lame slowest roaming class in the game, but I still have a good time and know I’m asking to get chased down easily by those oh so OP roaming guilds that make youtube vids Do I get ganked? Oh yeah…Do I get locked down easily by 2-3 players running cheese builds….you know it…Do I get mad?…..Nope cause I’m stupid for running necro as I get ganked more than any other class I think lol

Just go out, have fun and know it is just a game. Jabronis are going to throw siege on you, people are going to jump on you, and you have to realize that players running 5 man roaming crews are just having fun together in TS at your expense. Who cares what they emote or do, just a game.

I don’t typically roam, but when I do it’s always solo.
With so many players grouping up and/or running cheesy builds I’ve found a way to still have quite a lot of enjoyment out of roaming

So when I do come across other roamers, I tend to have my fun in the chase and to (in a way) waste our time. If you think about it, I’m stopping them from doing anything meaningful so it is helpful in a sense :P

The main idea is to be on a high mobility class, with tanky stats, decent condi removal
(variations of a Nike warrior is good for this), when you find other roamers / a group of roamers, get them to take chase. The only time I find this a challenge is when groups chase me, but that’s okay, I slow down my pace a little for solo roamers

There’s a delicate balance to it, you don’t want to get too far ahead or they’ll smarten up and stop chasing, but you want to draw out the encounter as long as humanly possible. I’ve once got a solo thief to do a full lap around the northern half of a borderlands map :’)

I find roamers typically much better squirrels than zerglings, and to me it’s certainly much more satisfying than fighting cheesy builds or groups of roamers.

Considering how often I find others who are willing to chase me for a decent cross-country, I’d guess they have fun also, otherwise why chase for so long.

MattyjRulz.2840:

I don’t typically roam, but when I do it’s always solo.
With so many players grouping up and/or running cheesy builds I’ve found a way to still have quite a lot of enjoyment out of roaming

So when I do come across other roamers, I tend to have my fun in the chase and to (in a way) waste our time. If you think about it, I’m stopping them from doing anything meaningful so it is helpful in a sense :P

The main idea is to be on a high mobility class, with tanky stats, decent condi removal
(variations of a Nike warrior is good for this), when you find other roamers / a group of roamers, get them to take chase. The only time I find this a challenge is when groups chase me, but that’s okay, I slow down my pace a little for solo roamers

There’s a delicate balance to it, you don’t want to get too far ahead or they’ll smarten up and stop chasing, but you want to draw out the encounter as long as humanly possible. I’ve once got a solo thief to do a full lap around the northern half of a borderlands map :’)

I find roamers typically much better squirrels than zerglings, and to me it’s certainly much more satisfying than fighting cheesy builds or groups of roamers.

Considering how often I find others who are willing to chase me for a decent cross-country, I’d guess they have fun also, otherwise why chase for so long.

People like you are exactly why myself and a few of the people i roll with in wvw tend to slot alot of hard/soft cc. We don’t usually allow you to get your giggles with the “chase me chase me” part, we usually force you to skip ahead to the “OMG THEY CAUGHT ME, ALTf4!!!!!!!” lol.

VaaCrow.3076:

MattyjRulz.2840:

-snip

People like you are exactly why myself and a few of the people i roll with in wvw tend to slot alot of hard/soft cc. We don’t usually allow you to get your giggles with the “chase me chase me” part, we usually force you to skip ahead to the “OMG THEY CAUGHT ME, ALTf4!!!!!!!” lol.

I haven’t found that to be all too common actually, the groups I tend to come across I think expect opponents that will fight back.

EDIT: Also like to mention that as I said it’s a delicate balance, you need to give your opponents some hope, but letting them get close enough to you to lock you down is just bad form on the runners part, and incase it does happen: having a clutch stability/condi removal is an important backup plan.

You do not expect balanced duels – or balanced anything – in wvw, do you?