Guild Wars 2

So, the forums have barely been up and i’ve already seen many references to this issue, so i figured i’d make a post to consolidate the discussion. At this point, there are many who think it is a valid tactic, so i dont think i’m spilling the beans on some exploit. This is something most WvWvW players are aware of by now. Sorry to AN ahead of time if this is considered an exploit and i’m bringing more attention to it, take my post down if you must, but this happens almost every match up at this point, so i dont think i’m breaking any news here…

Let me first say that this thread is NOT to bicker and talk junk about other servers who may or may not have used this method. It is purely to discuss both sides of the topic in a cogent and respectful manner to give AN the best feedback as possible.

Ok, so first, let me explain the concept for those that are not aware are caught up. Basically, the SM keep lord can be damaged (and killed) from below using arrow carts and other forms of aoe (Ele’s fire rain for example). This circumvents any defenses set up in the actual lords room and allows for a server to kill the lord without actually stepping foot in the room. Of course, they must still enter the room to take control of SM, but without the lord to defend, it can be overtaken much more easily.

Now, on one side of the argument, there are those who believe this is working as intended. These people claim that the lord stands on a grated floor, and thus, was purposefully designed for projectiles to be able to hit him. They think that it is a perfectly acceptable tactic to downing the lord before storming into the room to claim the castle as their own. They think it is similar to how you can damage players through gates via flame rams or how you can shoot below a bridge and damage people on top of it. They will argue that you still have to push into the lords room, through the choke point and into defenses and seige equipment, to claim the castle.

On the other side of the coin are players who think this, at best, was not the intended design, and at worst, is an exploit. They believe that the lord is put in the upper floor for a reason; namely that the enemy must come through a choke point to down the lord, giving the defenders an extra line defense (making SM the hardest lord to down). These people think that being able to rain arrows above someone through a floor doesn’t make sense in terms of game physics and that even though you still have to go up into the room to claim the castle, not having to deal with an NPC that can one-shot you is a significant advantage over having to deal with both the lord and the players.

Personally, i am in the second group, feeling that there is no way AN spent the time to design the ramps and the choke point in front of the lord if they thought he should be able to be taken down without even going up to his room. I dont think its an acceptable argument to say he is standing on a grate so projectiles should go through. You cant hit him with a ballista…so if some things LOS him and others dont, can that really be WAI?

All that being said, i appreciate the other side of this argument and i want to hear what you all think. Should you be able to kill the keep lord through the ground without going up to his room?

Sig – “Eredon Terrace” I know where this is going >_>

Lofty.8759:

Sig – “Eredon Terrace” I know where this is going >_>

actually, i want to hear both sides. it has happened to every server. i honestly dont care about previous wins or losses from it, i want to get a real conversation going that isn’t about talking smack on other servers…good contribution btw

This is obviously an exploit.

I am pretty sure the bottom of the floor where his stands is “grated” as in not a solid floor. And, considering it has been like this through all the betas, I don’t consider it an exploit. You Still have to stand in the circle up above and cap, killing the keep lord is not the only thing you have to do to capture SM. If Anet want to change that behavior, then its up to them. Why not wipe then below before they kill the keep lord…

Fugly.5287:

This is obviously an exploit.

Then the opposite is true, because arrow carts can shoot down through walls just as easily.

in first place seige weapons shouldn’t be deployed inside. 15 people with Seige on top of lord room, can hold 100 back which is pathetic and stupid.

Seige should be used outside only, not abused inside rooms, i mean a cata deployed inside a room… really?

If the enemy has managed to get into SM and can set up arrow carts to do this….I think you’ve lost it anyway.

If the Keep Lord would rush down the stairs to the bottom level, I would say this is working as intended. But if he isn’t even aggro’d and he dies without being aggro’d (which I believe is the case), then it is not working as intended.

If arrow carts and other AoE abilities have been able to hit the Stonemist Keep Lord since the beta and the issue has been expressed to ArenaNet on multiple fronts, the only deciding factor is ArenaNet.

Let’s quickly point out that when ArenaNet discovered an exploit where small amounts of karma were traded for large amounts of gold, the reaction was swift and decisive.

As we haven’t heard anything from ArenaNet on the issue, it may be SAFE — not necessarily prudent or correct — to avoid calling it an exploit. From the “physics” stand point, it doesn’t make much sense, but neither does the aforementioned ability for players and flame rams to hit through gates as they try to get in. This works on the opposite side, considering catapults + ballista emplacements can be created to hit the door from the inside and players can also attack those on the outside.

This may be working as intended, like the keep gates, to avoid conflicts/engagements turning into wars of attrition, which are significantly more drawn out.