Guild Wars 2

Just follow the trail of mini’s

Tosh.5780:

Just follow the trail of mini’s

There is always one person!

It’s very simple, SM is rarely held or upgraded any longer. That Castle is supposed to be the “Big Thing” of WvW to grab and hold. Way pointing SM used to be a huge accomplishment. Now, no one ever really tries to way point it at all. It just acts as a huge supply shed and something to KTrain. They are adding bonuses to it to make it worth holding. There’s nothing wrong with that at all.

For the conversation of SM not being held or flipped often, I just checked Millenium for how long SM has been held for. Here’s are the minutes held in descending tier order.

NA : 9, 19, 19 18, 70, 196, 69, 349
EU: 13, 52, 5, 12, 52, 773, 1, 7, 13

So except for the 3 outlier’s, SM is rarely ever held and upgraded any longer.

In matchups where one server is rolling the others, this won’t make a difference besides having the other two servers give up a bit earlier in the week (maybe Sunday instead of Monday).

In matchups where the ppt “matter,” all this’ll do is encourage people to make more spy accounts.

f’n stealth…..

Boggles the mind. These forums are filled with posts calling for mesmers to be nerfed because of stealth and complaining about thieves one shotting out of stealth. After reading through the pros and cons, I have to say I am not looking forward to this. And I play a mesmer!

1. Will this stealth work on golems, too?
2. Can you waypoint with stealth on? … or to another map?

Svarty.8019:

1. Will this stealth work on golems, too?
2. Can you waypoint with stealth on? … or to another map?

Stealth should work exactly as it does now. Which is yes on Golems and way pointing, no on map changes.

I really don’t like the idea of mass invisibility for 2 minutes for the whole zerg, because it supports karmatrain even more.

Instead I would like to see some improvements to obliterate karmatrains.

For example:
- rewards for killing other players
- nerf golems
- nerf stealth
- buff rewards for a successfully defense

It is no fun flipping some keeps with a golem army with the help of mesmer ports – there is no challenge. It is no fun losing your keep when you don’t have any chance.

Kaiser.9873:

I get it…..it’s to make stealth gyro TB skill needed.

Nope it’s to bring more reveal to nerf thief.

this is fantastic……….now all anet has to do is to stealth SM..towers and castles …and we will spent all our gamingtime looking for the gates……..
when we are at it ………………why not wrap the whole map in stealth ….

It is really a bad a idea… pretty bad for balance, because if a server can hold SM long enough to upgrade all tiers you can be sure they are crushing the other servers, no one can keep SM so long without greater numbers, and numbers are what really break balance in WvW.

So what would I expect… mechanisms to help lower population servers to have a chance, and not to give the fat servers even more advantages.

Hope some one from anet reads this… instead of putting this fountain on SM put it on spawn camps for outnumbered servers, something like when you are outnumbered you gain the fountain but with a very high cool down, like 30 minutes.

meltdown.5870:

this is fantastic……….now all anet has to do is to stealth SM..towers and castles …and we will spent all our gamingtime looking for the gates……..
when we are at it ………………why not wrap the whole map in stealth ….

Be careful, Anet seems to LOVE stealth more then the players. They might pick this idea up.

DeWolfe.2174:

It’s very simple, SM is rarely held or upgraded any longer. That Castle is supposed to be the “Big Thing” of WvW to grab and hold. Way pointing SM used to be a huge accomplishment. Now, no one ever really tries to way point it at all. It just acts as a huge supply shed and something to KTrain. They are adding bonuses to it to make it worth holding. There’s nothing wrong with that at all.

For the conversation of SM not being held or flipped often, I just checked Millenium for how long SM has been held for. Here’s are the minutes held in descending tier order.

NA : 9, 19, 19 18, 70, 196, 69, 349
EU: 13, 52, 5, 12, 52, 773, 1, 7, 13

So except for the 3 outlier’s, SM is rarely ever held and upgraded any longer.

That is weird, last couple days i woke up to see a waypoint in SM in our match up. and the match ups before it so this is not really true. Maybe in t1 it might be but not on lower tiers and match up blow outs.

Sentry’s and towers can spot enemies, and if I’m not mistaken this works on invisible units. It shows them on the map not the character model. If it’s a little strong I expect ArenaNet will look into it. Despite the past it seems ArenaNet is putting some focus on WvW I just hope the ‘forum community’ (the toxic ones) don’t scare them away.

Culling all over again…

Offair.2563:

DeWolfe.2174:

It’s very simple, SM is rarely held or upgraded any longer. That Castle is supposed to be the “Big Thing” of WvW to grab and hold. Way pointing SM used to be a huge accomplishment. Now, no one ever really tries to way point it at all. It just acts as a huge supply shed and something to KTrain. They are adding bonuses to it to make it worth holding. There’s nothing wrong with that at all.

For the conversation of SM not being held or flipped often, I just checked Millenium for how long SM has been held for. Here’s are the minutes held in descending tier order.

NA : 9, 19, 19 18, 70, 196, 69, 349
EU: 13, 52, 5, 12, 52, 773, 1, 7, 13

So except for the 3 outlier’s, SM is rarely ever held and upgraded any longer.

That is weird, last couple days i woke up to see a waypoint in SM in our match up. and the match ups before it so this is not really true. Maybe in t1 it might be but not on lower tiers and match up blow outs.

Its a lot easier now to upgrade sm due to high supply coming in from 4 yacks after the update the yacks cut time but you cant simply rush a wp in sm any more you must wait for it. Making it a bit harder to hold sm.

soulsugger.5726:

Culling all over again…

I wonder if it would be easier to just bring back culling instead of implementing the fountains.

You know you’ve been in one place too long when things come around full circle.

Swamurabi.7890:

You know you’ve been in one place too long when things come around full circle.

So living on earth for one year is too long :P. Sorry had to

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Sentry’s and towers can spot enemies, and if I’m not mistaken this works on invisible units. It shows them on the map not the character model. If it’s a little strong I expect ArenaNet will look into it. Despite the past it seems ArenaNet is putting some focus on WvW I just hope the ‘forum community’ (the toxic ones) don’t scare them away.

I just hope all the people sucking up to Anet at every opportunity don’t give Anet the false impression that their terrible ideas are, in fact, wonderful.

I’ll have you know there was no sucking up on my part Mr.K.

I was just being my usual pollyanna and actually looking at this new thing like a puzzle to be solved.

Oddly I had this weird dream about you last night sir. I was on your doorstep, rang the bell, you opened it, and I started singing “The sun’ll come out tomorrow! Betchya bottom dollah that tomorra! There’ll be sun!”

And then you slammed the door on me.

Jayne.9251:

I’ll have you know there was no sucking up on my part Mr.K.

I was just being my usual pollyanna and actually looking at this new thing like a puzzle to be solved.

Oddly I had this weird dream about you last night sir. I was on your doorstep, rang the bell, you opened it, and I started singing “The sun’ll come out tomorrow! Betchya bottom dollah that tomorra! There’ll be sun!”

And then you slammed the door on me.

I am right there with ya. Not a suck up to anyone in particular. Just a postive person. I think that the stealth ninja assassin stuff is fun…

Don’t hate on my fun

That stealth fountain it’s a horrible idea.
I loved WvW because those (very) rare fights that lasted for a while, where each side could win. Not because all that prankish foolery (called “cheese”) and one sided “good laughs”, that have no place in a long lasting PvP. RvR it’s not a 5mins birthday clown battle, keep that around those “Box o’ Fun” in PvE.

For us who love fights, design choices like these are more than disappointing. If you don’t want us in your game, keep it up like this.

thats the worst idea ive ever seen.

Lord Kuru.3685:

I just hope all the people sucking up to Anet at every opportunity don’t give Anet the false impression that their terrible ideas are, in fact, wonderful.

Not sucking up to them, just generally like that they saw the lack of ‘intrest’ in holding SM the largest and debatable hardest to hold objective in the game. They are making SM a ‘power play’ objective and I think it’s something that has been missing. I understand the concern, nobody wants to be trying to get somewhere and get ganked by a group of invis players. This happens now and will continue to happen with or without this change. Getting ganked is part of WvW as it is part of any open world PvP, it’s what brings interest to the game mode (along with other things like large scale pvp).

I think people fear the most is getting ‘camped’ by invisible groups. This buff can only be picked up at SM and has a 2 min cd. If they camp you by your spawn they have to walk back to SM every time they attack to get stealth back. I think may people would rather bring a Mesmer than run back and forth to SM to camp people with stealth.

Offair.2563:

DeWolfe.2174:

It’s very simple, SM is rarely held or upgraded any longer. That Castle is supposed to be the “Big Thing” of WvW to grab and hold. Way pointing SM used to be a huge accomplishment. Now, no one ever really tries to way point it at all. It just acts as a huge supply shed and something to KTrain. They are adding bonuses to it to make it worth holding. There’s nothing wrong with that at all.

For the conversation of SM not being held or flipped often, I just checked Millenium for how long SM has been held for. Here’s are the minutes held in descending tier order.

NA : 9, 19, 19 18, 70, 196, 69, 349
EU: 13, 52, 5, 12, 52, 773, 1, 7, 13

So except for the 3 outlier’s, SM is rarely ever held and upgraded any longer.

That is weird, last couple days i woke up to see a waypoint in SM in our match up. and the match ups before it so this is not really true. Maybe in t1 it might be but not on lower tiers and match up blow outs.

Actually those look like the times that Stonemist has been held since it was last taken, therefore they do not support a low time between ownership transfers. For that you would need an average time held within a period of at least several weeks.

I quite often see SM with a waypoint on a mid tier server. It depends on one side having enough coverage to hold it long enough and upgrade.

WTF are you doing arena net??
I bet i would run this game better at making decisions about this kind of stuff than all your developing nerd toghether do. I really belive in that…

Jayne.9251:

I’ll have you know there was no sucking up on my part Mr.K.

I was just being my usual pollyanna and actually looking at this new thing like a puzzle to be solved.

Oddly I had this weird dream about you last night sir. I was on your doorstep, rang the bell, you opened it, and I started singing “The sun’ll come out tomorrow! Betchya bottom dollah that tomorra! There’ll be sun!”

And then you slammed the door on me.

Annie! Where do people know it from these days?

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Sentry’s and towers can spot enemies, and if I’m not mistaken this works on invisible units. It shows them on the map not the character model. If it’s a little strong I expect ArenaNet will look into it. Despite the past it seems ArenaNet is putting some focus on WvW I just hope the ‘forum community’ (the toxic ones) don’t scare them away.

Also on that note, as much fun as it Is having a laugh at this very silly idea, I do hope that people do refrain from becoming too toxic. Because I truly do enjoy WvW and I really do want this issue to be addressed. I don’t want to log on to find that Anet has deleted this thread because people were getting out of hand. Thus condemning us to endure the invis karma train.

As frustrating as it is, patience is the key if we don’t want this abomination to become a reality haha.

IT’s fine buff that adds tactical play. Pls stop qq and go cap sm. Sm is easy to take even for groups that are outnumbered, treb it from different sides etc. It’s not like who got 80 man always can save it, it’s bs.

Hvaran.6327:

IT’s fine buff that adds tactical play. Pls stop qq and go cap sm. Sm is easy to take even for groups that are outnumbered, treb it from different sides etc. It’s not like who got 80 man always can save it, it’s bs.

Come on this is a thread for serious discussion. We’ve all had our jokes but enough is enough.

“Its a fine buff that adds tactical play”.

At least be more subtle with your humor next time.

How can it encourage karma train if k-train doesn’t care about upgrading SM?

It’s a nice defense mechanic and I really like it. This keep is supposed to be the ultimate fortress, a giant castle with huge defense mechanics, and not to change its owner more often than a prostitute her customers.

I’m depressed… I, I, uh nvm….

We need more stealth… clearly.

I mean, why not just give it to Warriors, Guards, Necro’s and Ele’s… the other classes already have it.

Then no one can kitten about it anymore. This game is going towards the toilet.

Entenkommando.5208:

How can it encourage karma train if k-train doesn’t care about upgrading SM?

Funny that. Did you miss the blog post where they announced objectives auto-upgrade?

Entenkommando.5208:

It’s a nice defense mechanic and I really like it. This keep is supposed to be the ultimate fortress, a giant castle with huge defense mechanics, and not to change its owner more often than a prostitute her customers.

Except it’s not a defensive mechanic at all. If the stealth lasted 10 seconds it’d be a fine defensive mechanic. From a SMC fountain, I can literally go to any given point of EBG before my two minute stealth expires. How is that defense?

Entenkommando.5208:

How can it encourage karma train if k-train doesn’t care about upgrading SM?

It’s a nice defense mechanic and I really like it. This keep is supposed to be the ultimate fortress, a giant castle with huge defense mechanics, and not to change its owner more often than a prostitute her customers.

Some of us here in WvW put Karma trains under the same banner/category as PPT try hards.

The karma train in normal WvW is different to the species of karma train in EOTM. EOTM trains actually work together to K train. However In WvW, when people actually care about PPT (for some reason), Karma training is usually a one sided affair and typically involves one server rolling over all the others. As their intention is to obliterate the competition as much as possible, we call this Karma training. (its kind of an expression rather than the actual pursuit of karma)

The SM mass stealth fountain give the biggest blobbing karma training server yet another leg up to continue their blobbing, whilst smaller servers have yet another disadvantage they need to overcome.

A server having a vast coverage/numerical advantage is horrible enough. A server with a vast coverage /numerical advantage that can move about the map undetected?

No thank you.

stealth isn’t “god mode” … there will be a bit of “surprise effect”. seems legit and cool

What a mind bogglingly bad idea… I can’t believe nobody lauhed this idea into oblivion when it was brought up.

Instead many people said it sounded awesome and implemented it. Wow.

Two minutes isn’t enough time to do anything substantial.

Quells.2498:

Two minutes isn’t enough time to do anything substantial.

It’s long enough to go anywhere in EB, bypassing every scout on the map…..

If you don’t have a scout sitting in every tower, and multiple scouts for your keep you can have an enemy zerg appear and bust through the gates before you can organize a response.

Quells.2498:

Two minutes isn’t enough time to do anything substantial.

We’re trying to have a serious discussion here, please take your trolling elsewhere.

Quells.2498:

Two minutes isn’t enough time to do anything substantial.

0_o

Oh, I get it. It was a sarcasm… it was right? RIGHT!?

It’s not as long as you think, I promise. Also you’re assuming you’ve always had scouts following a zerg previously which is only true half the time, mostly at reset. All you see is two minutes of uncertainty and you’re freaking out. Besides, we still have answers to counteract it.1

Quells.2498:

You’ll have around a minute left once you hit the outer SM wall.

Wait, you do know where these fountains are, right? Because there’s literally 500 range between the fountain and SMC outer wall. Watch the video in the OP of this thread.

It would take you 15 seconds maximum to walk through a fountain and jump of SMC wall without any movement speed buffs or abilities.

Sure if everyone is optimal but 9/10 times we take a little longer to move as a zerg and then sit on the outer wall until we get relevant info. I’m just saying it’s a little too early to start freaking out about it.

The incoming yelling and rage fits when inevitably several of the inviso-zerg stop to kill the sentry along the way, instantly revealing themselves … lol.

Jayne.9251:

The incoming yelling and rage fits when inevitably several of the inviso-zerg stop to kill the sentry along the way, instantly revealing themselves … lol.

The funny thing about it, that can actually be used to help the zerg. Oh 5-10 people off tag at a slightly different location. Sounds like perfect bait to me.

Even if few players reveal themselfs, you don’t know, how many are still stealthed. It could be just a small grp or a big zerg.

This change won’t affect balanced matchups much, but in unbalanced matches it will benefit an already dominating server even further …

Jayne.9251:

Tao.5096:

Jayne.9251:

I actually think it will make scouting more crucial, and response time/coordination more challenging. Good scouts will adapt to use tools to thwart. it means it will be crucial to have eyes everywhere, or at the very least monitor spawn.

Hrm, I wonder if they can stealth and jump maps?

Scouting won’t be crucial.

Even if you’ll follow 80 people blob into SM who will get stealthed, you have no idea where they will go, because you can’t see them.

What will you do next? Pop revealed on them?
I doubt you’ll manage to avoid all CCs and bombs from ~10 people.

Despite that, you won’t follow them anymore, and next scout won’t be so sure if those 10 are exactly the ones who are with the blob or not.

Pretty much, if that 2min stealth is true, then it means that Anet has plans to coffin nail Scouting in the future.

You drop stealth traps at key choke points (think gate exits of SM, narrowed pathways/tunnels/caves), you keep your eye out for traps that have been triggered. You lay more than one after the other so that advance scouting guys don’t accidentally trigger the traps.

You max out your AC ability so that AC aoe reveals stealth. You fire at the dorks that stop to kill the sentry along the way and reveal them all in return. And there will always always ALWAYS be two or three randoms that go chasing after the invis blob and don’t stop to get the fountain stealth. Those will be your warning drones.

You play one of these classes that can reveal stealth: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed. This may finally make engi’s and rangers the new meta in WvW

Final bit: They magically poof outside your gate. If no scout is there, there’s no time to react. At all. Which makes having reliable scouts monitoring areas on map so crucial. It takes about 2.3 minutes to ram down a gate with five superior rams. That’s hardly enough time to call for help, but with enough hair-trigger reaction, they can come up the back end and wipe the blob. I think it will actually lead to more fights than before, and more epic last-minute saves. It just means more accurate and faster scouting and faster response. It’s doable.

But gone are the days of “oh look there’s white swords at Anza, I’ll take a run over and look.” You need scouts to be present and active and have established trust with commanders who know how to think and react quickly. It’ll take some adjustment. But the server with the better scouts will ultimately prevail.

It’s time to think outside the proverbial box.

I read this as ‘you use up all your supplies randomly throwing down stealth traps along every single possible route to every tower you own and hope you can both scout everywhere and replace triggered traps (while opposition has 5 randoms popping any traps you lay down, totally wasting your efforts and draining your supply).’

Oh, and have 10-15 scouts doing nothing but looking out for traps that triggered and wasting all supplies, who then get totally bored and unrewarded…

I did laugh at traps at gate exits to SM, given you can jump off any part of the wall.

And the 2.3 minutes to ram down with 5 superior rams- 60 people can blob down a gate in that time with no rams at all. Now think about golem rushes from SM with mesmers porting invisible golems.

It’s a lot harder to counter on less populated servers, or those that don’t have 10-15 people who want to spend all their leisure time planting stealth traps and then standing in towers being bored.

It’s doable on t1 prime time. Outside of that, I can’t see how it helps the smaller servers compete against bigger ones (who will get the advantage).

It’s just a bad idea. But Anet like no downside stealth mechanics so I guess we’re stuck with it- a bit like ‘root, immobilise, while steal triggers boons, guaranteed criticals and ends 0.5 seconds later back in stealth’ while you stand there then wonder why the thief can re appear at 100% HP out of stealth 2000 range away.

Should be fun watching thiefs with 2 minutes of stealth, first you’ll know of it is when 3-4 of them pop out and insta down you (oh wait, that happens now…).

Scouts are already unrewarded. You don’t scout for the loot. .

I still think there’s panic over this before it’s tried. Even on smaller servers.