Guild Wars 2

To those people who support this idea: Should have moved down a couple of tiers and see how imbalanced it can be! Ofcourse you can flip sm when its un defended but that counts for every single objective. And 2 minutes is long enough to get to any place from SM.

Why Anet keeps on adding more stealth? It is really beyond me. Thought other games had bad stealth design, but i was totally wrong apparently..

Jayne.9251:

vespers.1759:

Jayne.9251:

Have you tried the stealth fountain yet? Nope.

Have you been unable to flip SM during prime? Nope.

This feels like whining for the sake of whining.

I don’t need to cut off my arm to know it’s a bad idea and I don’t need to have my angus stretched wide open to know unlimited 2min stealth is an equally terrible one.

And this doesn’t even just apply to zergs. it also applies to gank squads that are already bad enough. prepare yourself because you’re going to be jumped… a lot.

That’s not nice to do to cows.

If it’s crap it’s crap. And you have reason to call out Anet.

But at least TRY the crap first?

Then you have an experiential means of criticizing.

I could wind up hating it too. Dunno. But going to give it a fair go first — and I’m going to be just that stubborn enough to learn how to counter and master it.

Actually, we have tried it and it was called culling.

Culling made whole zergs dissappear when they stacked in one spot. I’ll admit I have called for the return of culling, but only as a way for smaller groups to defeat larger groups.

This is just another bloodlust, a bad snowball mechanic.

I understand that some liked the orb as a way to bring out fights and that this might be similar, but once one determined side gets mass stealth the outmanned sides will leave the map.

There’s no reason for it, it’s a terrible idea that serves no purpose other then causing more of a rift between Players and Dev’s. This is just about the dumbest thing they have implemented in quite some time and they have implemented some pretty dumb crap. This ranks up there and probably beyond the bright idea of Golem week.

Puck.9612:

Quells.2498:

Two minutes isn’t enough time to do anything substantial.

It’s long enough to go anywhere in EB, bypassing every scout on the map…..

If you don’t have a scout sitting in every tower, and multiple scouts for your keep you can have an enemy zerg appear and bust through the gates before you can organize a response.

Good thing one warrior can disable all their siege once then reveal and commit to attacking giving as much time as needed as long has they have supply and traps. (Warrior because un-blockable is nice to ensure disable lands)

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Puck.9612:

Quells.2498:

Two minutes isn’t enough time to do anything substantial.

It’s long enough to go anywhere in EB, bypassing every scout on the map…..

If you don’t have a scout sitting in every tower, and multiple scouts for your keep you can have an enemy zerg appear and bust through the gates before you can organize a response.

Good thing one warrior can disable all their siege once then reveal and commit to attacking giving as much time as needed as long has they have supply and traps. (Warrior because un-blockable is nice to ensure disable lands)

So I guess you volunteer to sit in a tower for hours in case an invisible zerg shows up? I sure hope you have enough people that are willing to do this for every tower in EB, and several people for your keep.

Make it a 10-20 second buff so it’s an actual defensive SM option without being a map wide terror.

2 minutes is actually insane and means whoever control SM can AppleJelly any other zerg without warning.

15ish seconds means if someone is in your SM you get a VERY strong defensive option to smash whoever is in SM with a surprise zerg.

Puck.9612:

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Puck.9612:

Quells.2498:

Two minutes isn’t enough time to do anything substantial.

It’s long enough to go anywhere in EB, bypassing every scout on the map…..

If you don’t have a scout sitting in every tower, and multiple scouts for your keep you can have an enemy zerg appear and bust through the gates before you can organize a response.

Good thing one warrior can disable all their siege once then reveal and commit to attacking giving as much time as needed as long has they have supply and traps. (Warrior because un-blockable is nice to ensure disable lands)

So I guess you volunteer to sit in a tower for hours in case an invisible zerg shows up? I sure hope you have enough people that are willing to do this for every tower in EB, and several people for your keep.

Well you only really need one per objective, also if towers do reveal stealth on map with new tower upgrades most tower’s won’t need a scout in them but just near them to disable. So, you kinda only really need one person to keep an eye on the keep and have some siege disablers ready. There are already lots of people that scout (on more competitive servers that actually will have a zerg show up if you keep them disabled) on these servers and much of what they do will not change. Yes the 10 to 20 seconds that you can see a zerg coming towards an objective will be lost to stealth however many zergs won’t respond to objectives getting attacked until siege is committed. Therefore in the realm of objective taking I see not much of a difference, just more so in the ‘ganking’ of players outside of towers.

Phzt.9864:

Make it a 10-20 second buff so it’s an actual defensive SM option without being a map wide terror.

2 minutes is actually insane and means whoever control SM can AppleJelly any other zerg without warning.

15ish seconds means if someone is in your SM you get a VERY strong defensive option to smash whoever is in SM with a surprise zerg.

I don’t think it is supposed to be use defensively, I think it’s intent is offensive. A lot of people mentioned the new guild upgrades seemed to make defending a lot easier/stronger so they had to put a few offensive ones in. Don’t need the stealth to be defensive when you have the pact airship bombardment as an active upgrade.

When I first heard of the fountains I figured it would be something that while in it you’d have stealth and upon leaving you get maybe a few seconds. Which would be plenty for a defense. 2 min is not for a defense, its 100% for cheesy offense attacks. All a zerg would need is to send a couple stealthed scouts to run ahead of the zerg to pop any stealth traps. I thought bloodlust was the dumbest thing to happen to WvW but now its the second dumbest.

Edited to add that the gank squads will be the worst part. If you don’t have perma-stealth then what’s the point of roaming as you are guaranteed to be jumped over and over. Currently if you pay attention to surroundings you can normally spot trouble and prepare your self. This makes it so all those classes that are balanced for not having stealth can out of no where 100-0 you with out any kind of counter play.

Like I mentioned above, its the dumbest thing to ever happen to WvW. Its proof that the devs have no clue WTF they doing.

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Well you only really need one per objective

RIP…

Reality check for you. Not everyone play in T1. Down below what seem so simple for you is a real nightmare and absolutely not viable. We have all the problem in the world to have 1 dedicated scout per bl is our reality since forever. How many times did I had to sacrifice myself to be that guy because otherwise there would be nobody.

Beside, why does it have to be kittening stealth again? Why can’t it be another kind of far less problematic defense?

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Puck.9612:

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Puck.9612:

Quells.2498:

Two minutes isn’t enough time to do anything substantial.

It’s long enough to go anywhere in EB, bypassing every scout on the map…..

If you don’t have a scout sitting in every tower, and multiple scouts for your keep you can have an enemy zerg appear and bust through the gates before you can organize a response.

Good thing one warrior can disable all their siege once then reveal and commit to attacking giving as much time as needed as long has they have supply and traps. (Warrior because un-blockable is nice to ensure disable lands)

So I guess you volunteer to sit in a tower for hours in case an invisible zerg shows up? I sure hope you have enough people that are willing to do this for every tower in EB, and several people for your keep.

Well you only really need one per objective, also if towers do reveal stealth on map with new tower upgrades most tower’s won’t need a scout in them but just near them to disable. So, you kinda only really need one person to keep an eye on the keep and have some siege disablers ready. There are already lots of people that scout (on more competitive servers that actually will have a zerg show up if you keep them disabled) on these servers and much of what they do will not change. Yes the 10 to 20 seconds that you can see a zerg coming towards an objective will be lost to stealth however many zergs won’t respond to objectives getting attacked until siege is committed. Therefore in the realm of objective taking I see not much of a difference, just more so in the ‘ganking’ of players outside of towers.

Being able to see them coming gives scouts a chance to prepare. If an invisible zerg spike builds 5 rams on a tower and no one sees them until after the ramming has begun, the chances of saving it are minimal.

With the keeps you will have a chance to defend inner, but outer will be down before your 1 scout figures out where you are being hit from.

In the past few months I have played on servers from T2 all the way down to T7. The defensive scouting is done around the pathways to your side of the map, where you are likely to get into fights with the offensive scouts from other servers. Having people sitting in each tower is boring for them and wasteful to the server.

If the only way to defend against this terrible idea is to have people sitting in each tower with disablers ready then what is the point? How is that fun? They are giving zergs the ability to blitzkrieg objectives and WP away to restealth without having to fight anyone, and forcing defenders to sit around in tower instead of getting a little roaming action in. All this idea is doing is taking away from fights.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Well you only really need one per objective

RIP…

Reality check for you. Not everyone play in T1. Down below what seem so simple for you is a real nightmare and absolutely not viable. We have all the problem in the world to have 1 dedicated scout per bl is our reality since forever. How many times did I had to sacrifice myself to be that guy because otherwise there would be nobody.

Beside, why does it have to be kittening stealth again? Why can’t it be another kind of far less problematic defense?

There is a reason that lower tier servers don’t often have scouts, they don’t have the forces to stop the attack even if it is scouted. In terms of stealth affecting the ease of taking objectives I don’t think it will play much of a role. In terms of stealth affecting how many times people die running around solo, that will be significantly higher.

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Well you only really need one per objective

RIP…

Reality check for you. Not everyone play in T1. Down below what seem so simple for you is a real nightmare and absolutely not viable. We have all the problem in the world to have 1 dedicated scout per bl is our reality since forever. How many times did I had to sacrifice myself to be that guy because otherwise there would be nobody.

Beside, why does it have to be kittening stealth again? Why can’t it be another kind of far less problematic defense?

There is a reason that lower tier servers don’t often have scouts, they don’t have the forces to stop the attack even if it is scouted. In terms of stealth affecting the ease of taking objectives I don’t think it will play much of a role. In terms of stealth affecting how many times people die running around solo, that will be significantly higher.

What T8 server were you playing on that you believe that crap?

Jayne.9251:

And one guy is insta-revealed and gets aoe’d then the rest of his teammates magically appear because aoe puts a player into .. wait for it .. combat. Well I guess max five players per aoe, technically.

This shows how little you know. Being attacked doesn’t remove stealth. You have to attack something yourself which does not happen automatically. You are defending mechanics that you know nothing about. This mechanic is for the winning server to troll the other servers. Nothing more. Its a horrible idea with no counter play.

Just had a thought.

How would you stop 2-man groups with two minute stealth and supply traps dropping the supply traps in front of a zerg, destroying 200 supply each time?

They could look at the camp timer and run to a camp waiting for it to be flipped and deprive the enemy of supply after the camp is flipped. At least Dane, Rogues and Pangloss can be effectively stealth trapped, but the other three camps are wide open.

^ Having a few people running in front of the zerg and thus triggering the traps without the main group getting hit?

The same thing can be done without the stealth as well. Not to mention the fact that you are actually revealed when you are trying the place the traps. But I suppose we are disregarding that slight piece of information?

Puck.9612:

What T8 server were you playing on that you believe that crap?

It’s not T8 but it experiences the population imbalance of non T1 servers. I play on GoM with some friends (T7) who chose not to transfer back when I transferred. The have people that scout, and I do myself sometimes when there is a group on that can defend if an objective get’s attacked. If there is no group on then it’s mostly get watch stuff get flipped and do what you can with small havoc groups (flipping camps maybe a tower). The winner and loser of these matches (often with T1 as well) is just about coverage. What server do you play on and what are your experiences?

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Well you only really need one per objective

RIP…

Reality check for you. Not everyone play in T1. Down below what seem so simple for you is a real nightmare and absolutely not viable. We have all the problem in the world to have 1 dedicated scout per bl is our reality since forever. How many times did I had to sacrifice myself to be that guy because otherwise there would be nobody.

Beside, why does it have to be kittening stealth again? Why can’t it be another kind of far less problematic defense?

There is a reason that lower tier servers don’t often have scouts, they don’t have the forces to stop the attack even if it is scouted. In terms of stealth affecting the ease of taking objectives I don’t think it will play much of a role. In terms of stealth affecting how many times people die running around solo, that will be significantly higher.

Believe me, we could have prevent at least 80% of out objective being flipped had we the means to put a scout in each towers. Beside, we play vs servers of relatively similar strength as us so their means are often similar to ours (Well except for the last few weeks but that is another story).

Dude, there are guilds of mesmers. Entire guilds of mesmers that stay kitten hidden for 9/10 of a fight. I think they are taking their clothes off right now to skinny dip in that kitten fountain.

Quells.2498:

Two minutes isn’t enough time to do anything substantial.

If you really think that you know little of tactics and strategy.

Jayne.9251:

What server are you on by the way that you feel you’re so weak you cannot flip SM?

The question is not that it can’t be flipped, it is the amount of time one dominating servers holds it compared to another. This isn’t hard math. If one server has enough forces to hold it over 33% of the time during a matchup, then there will be imbalance. Especially, for the smallest server in the 3 server matchup as they will hold it significantly less. Since I can guarantee there is almost never an equal balance of holding SM on any tier and for lower tier servers this is vastly the case, the imbalance will be worse.

Look, they will put this in no matter what anyone says and in 3 months it will be gone as the WvW portion of the game will BLEED. No one likes to die to people they can’t see. People do not like dying and don’t stick around to die to a dominant server. Now a dominant server will have an extra boost. Yes, you can counter it, but every single boost given to a dominant server will mean more people stop playing WvW.

People are not encourage to enter a gameplay mode and stick with it when they have even less of a chance than before. This wouldn’t matter if it turns out to be only a small bonus. The small bonuses add up and with no real effective way to counter the issue. This WILL tip the balance of annoyance up to total frustration and people will leave the game…..the straw that breaks the camels back… so to speak. Whle it might not be that way to everyone, at this point, can ANET really afford to lose anyone in WvW since new games, with a WvW focus are less than 4 months out?

Given that PU mesmer stealth duration has been nerfed to 50%, perhaps this fountain thingie should be nerfed to give 30s of stealth maximum?

wyther.8372:

Jayne.9251:

What server are you on by the way that you feel you’re so weak you cannot flip SM?

The question is not that it can’t be flipped, it is the amount of time one dominating servers holds it compared to another. This isn’t hard math. If one server has enough forces to hold it over 33% of the time during a matchup, then there will be imbalance. Especially, for the smallest server in the 3 server matchup as they will hold it significantly less. Since I can guarantee there is almost never an equal balance of holding SM on any tier and for lower tier servers this is vastly the case, the imbalance will be worse.

Look, they will put this in no matter what anyone says and in 3 months it will be gone as the WvW portion of the game will BLEED. No one likes to die to people they can’t see. People do not like dying and don’t stick around to die to a dominant server. Now a dominant server will have an extra boost. Yes, you can counter it, but every single boost given to a dominant server will mean more people stop playing WvW.

People are not encourage to enter a gameplay mode and stick with it when they have even less of a chance than before. This wouldn’t matter if it turns out to be only a small bonus. The small bonuses add up and with no real effective way to counter the issue. This WILL tip the balance of annoyance up to total frustration and people will leave the game…..the straw that breaks the camels back… so to speak. Whle it might not be that way to everyone, at this point, can ANET really afford to lose anyone in WvW since new games, with a WvW focus are less than 4 months out?

Versus the No.1 EU server with the most bodies. Note the red arrows.

This is during EU prime.

This “No. 1 Server” is loosing against rank 6 server and is only very slightly above your poor rank 10 server. Nobody said, sm isn’t flipped constantly in matches like yours.

But it is a fact – there is nothing to discuss – that matches exist, where one server is dominating enough to be able to fully upgrade and defend sm for the majority of the time.

YOU won’t be affected by the stealth fountain much. But others will be, and not in a positive way.

@Jayne, try to see this in a whole picture rather then your own point of view.

@Offair. The photo is just one example. I have played the bottom tiers in NA, too. It’s not just based on one singular tier/experience. I just used this current example because of the disparity in population in this current match, and the fact that we still are flipping it.

As I said, I could wind up hating it too. But I’m at least going to give it my best at learning to counter.

Yes you can flip sm , no doubt about it. But this will just favor the big dominating server in a match up for most of the times. Dont have to be a rocket scientist to foresee the problems it would give.

It’s just a bad idea, Zergs stealthing across the map which makes scouts pretty much pointless.

Roamers will use it to camp between SM and Keeps killing anyone attempting to get back to their force, they will be able to run back to SM and refresh as needed. At least currently you can avoid or see them coming to defend yourself.

This is going to hurt lower populations even more than they already are hurting. Now the larger force can just camp SM while giving their force stealth to have free reign to take whatever they want without warning.

Which Dev comes up with these ideas ? He/She clearly doesn’t play a lot of WvW.

Random.4691:

It’s just a bad idea, Zergs stealthing across the map which makes scouts pretty much pointless.

Roamers will use it to camp between SM and Keeps killing anyone attempting to get back to their force, they will be able to run back to SM and refresh as needed. At least currently you can avoid or see them coming to defend yourself.

This is going to hurt lower populations even more than they already are hurting. Now the larger force can just camp SM while giving their force stealth to have free reign to take whatever they want without warning.

Which Dev comes up with these ideas ? He/She clearly doesn’t play a lot of WvW.

this

Maybe this a plot to make us play the new map? What will be worse; EB with invisible zergs or the eotm on roids desert map?

vespers.1759:

Maybe this a plot to make us play the new map? What will be worse; EB with invisible zergs or the eotm on roids desert map?

Well keep atacking SM to avoid others to have it :P, while this happens keeps are safe from being easilly taken.

Aeolus.3615:

vespers.1759:

Maybe this a plot to make us play the new map? What will be worse; EB with invisible zergs or the eotm on roids desert map?

Well keep atacking SM to avoid others to have it :P, while this happens keeps are safe from being easilly taken.

It’s not always that easy, when heavily outmanned the larger force can easily hold SM. Currently Servers don’t usually go out of there way to lock down SM, sure they defend it but they don’t camp it, with this change those large populations will camp it because it’s way to beneficial to lose it. Lower Population servers just got kicked in the teeth by Anet yet again.

On the good side, with the change in reset time, some people will log in to a t3 SM for their first chance at wvw on saturday night. Poor suckers wont even see it coming.

Wryscher.1432:

On the good side, with the change in reset time, some people will log in to a t3 SM for their first chance at wvw on saturday night. Poor suckers wont even see it coming.

Hey thats a different QQ topic. Kind of hard to keep track of all the bad idea’s being brought to WvW lately.

Things like this buff should be given to the losing server, not the one on a roll

Doug.4930:

Wryscher.1432:

On the good side, with the change in reset time, some people will log in to a t3 SM for their first chance at wvw on saturday night. Poor suckers wont even see it coming.

Hey thats a different QQ topic. Kind of hard to keep track of all the bad idea’s being brought to WvW lately.

Sorry didnt mean to cross the QQ streams.

LetoII.3782:

Things like this buff should be given to the losing server, not the one on a roll

If the losing server takes SM then they get a stealth buff? Sounds interesting, actually.

So haven’t been on to test this at all .. has it been the game-ending change that everyone feared?

Given the amount of upgrades required, I hardly believe we will see it before Christmas.

Dawntree.7246:

Given the amount of upgrades required, I hardly believe we will see it before Christmas.

yea all the guilds need to grind out their upgrades before we see this atrocity in action.

Winter is coming……….

Wryscher.1432:

Doug.4930:

Wryscher.1432:

On the good side, with the change in reset time, some people will log in to a t3 SM for their first chance at wvw on saturday night. Poor suckers wont even see it coming.

Hey thats a different QQ topic. Kind of hard to keep track of all the bad idea’s being brought to WvW lately.

Sorry didnt mean to cross the QQ streams.

Thats ok, just be careful not to do it again. It would be bad.

Wow i had no idea about this.

The new WvW is so full of kittens that i can’t even keep track of all them apparently.

I’m not sure if people answering with “well, use AC mastery” “well, use stealth traps” “well, use more scouts” are either trolling, just inexperienced players or straight forward stupid guys (no offense, but really).

How would you use AC to reveal a stealthed zerg? You place multiple ACs all around SM in the middle of nowere pressing #5 (everytime it is not on cooldown) in a random direction hoping for the best?

Stealth traps? Yeah, in a lifetime i havent’ seen a server putting effort in using supply removal traps massively and with coordination near own structures. Coordination to deploy any routh the enemies can take from SM while stealthed (aka everywhere) is never going to happen.

Scouts were a rare sight, they’ll slowly die with new WvW “autoupgrades and yay for karma train-mechanics” so that’s never going to happen either.

= this massive stealth is the 95th nail in WvW’s coffin.

Johje Holan.4607:

Why does Anet do half the things they do for WvW?

I think it’s a number of factors:

1. They love cheese; like stealth, Golems, falling to your death, ambient creatures, etc.
2. They don’t really know what to do with WvW.
3. Therefore in their minds, the more cheese the better.

+1 man!
Add to this all other dull, stupid and not WvW crap like spikes getting from the floor, teleporting lords, lava pounds, auto turrets, bouncing air, no falling damage shrines, etc… I hoped so much WvW is about large scale player vs. player fighs, like PvP, just with greater numbers… Apparently I was so wrong…

Xeno.4610:

Johje Holan.4607:

Why does Anet do half the things they do for WvW?

I think it’s a number of factors:

1. They love cheese; like stealth, Golems, falling to your death, ambient creatures, etc.
2. They don’t really know what to do with WvW.
3. Therefore in their minds, the more cheese the better.

+1 man!
Add to this all other dull, stupid and not WvW crap like spikes getting from the floor, teleporting lords, lava pounds, auto turrets, bouncing air, no falling damage shrines, etc… I hoped so much WvW is about large scale player vs. player fighs, like PvP, just with greater numbers… Apparently I was so wrong…

so a plain square is all u guys wanted? the new maps are have alot in commin with GW1 gvg maps with those mechanics, except stealth fountian offcourse.

Nedus.6952:

I’m not sure if people answering with “well, use AC mastery” “well, use stealth traps” “well, use more scouts” are either trolling, just inexperienced players or straight forward stupid guys (no offense, but really).

Absolutely. I’m a noob. :P

Aeolus.3615:

Xeno.4610:

Johje Holan.4607:

Why does Anet do half the things they do for WvW?

I think it’s a number of factors:

1. They love cheese; like stealth, Golems, falling to your death, ambient creatures, etc.
2. They don’t really know what to do with WvW.
3. Therefore in their minds, the more cheese the better.

+1 man!
Add to this all other dull, stupid and not WvW crap like spikes getting from the floor, teleporting lords, lava pounds, auto turrets, bouncing air, no falling damage shrines, etc… I hoped so much WvW is about large scale player vs. player fighs, like PvP, just with greater numbers… Apparently I was so wrong…

so a plain square is all u guys wanted? the new maps are have alot in commin with GW1 gvg maps with those mechanics, except stealth fountian offcourse.

so they should have made some GvG maps and added that game mode. Honestly I preferred the original alpine map with Quagan Island. I hated the bloodlust claiming and I hate all the cheese they add that only helps a larger server snowball. I swear the people making these choices are just trolls because these ideas are just for trolling.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Aeolus.3615:

Xeno.4610:

Johje Holan.4607:

Why does Anet do half the things they do for WvW?

I think it’s a number of factors:

1. They love cheese; like stealth, Golems, falling to your death, ambient creatures, etc.
2. They don’t really know what to do with WvW.
3. Therefore in their minds, the more cheese the better.

+1 man!
Add to this all other dull, stupid and not WvW crap like spikes getting from the floor, teleporting lords, lava pounds, auto turrets, bouncing air, no falling damage shrines, etc… I hoped so much WvW is about large scale player vs. player fighs, like PvP, just with greater numbers… Apparently I was so wrong…

so a plain square is all u guys wanted? the new maps are have alot in common with GW1 gvg maps with those mechanics, except stealth fountian offcourse.

so they should have made some GvG maps and added that game mode. Honestly I preferred the original alpine map with Quagan Island. I hated the bloodlust claiming and I hate all the cheese they add that only helps a larger server snowball. I swear the people making these choices are just trolls because these ideas are just for trolling.

The old BL’s were completely karma train maps(imo that is the wvw fights most talk for sure…and they want that back), they also had alot of flaws.

Everything started to help the larger servers after the big patch, even if they are unorganized they have plenty of more chances to win plus stealth from SM…

About GvG for sure Anet as something prepared to add to the GH, maybe 2 teams of 5 since game “tries” to be balanced to a full team.

Aeolus.3615:

Xeno.4610:

Johje Holan.4607:

Why does Anet do half the things they do for WvW?

I think it’s a number of factors:

1. They love cheese; like stealth, Golems, falling to your death, ambient creatures, etc.
2. They don’t really know what to do with WvW.
3. Therefore in their minds, the more cheese the better.

+1 man!
Add to this all other dull, stupid and not WvW crap like spikes getting from the floor, teleporting lords, lava pounds, auto turrets, bouncing air, no falling damage shrines, etc… I hoped so much WvW is about large scale player vs. player fighs, like PvP, just with greater numbers… Apparently I was so wrong…

so a plain square is all u guys wanted? the new maps are have alot in commin with GW1 gvg maps with those mechanics, except stealth fountian offcourse.

actually, yes!
less is more in wvw. we the players desing the way the battles go. the new maps are pve driven maps and not the same sandbox kinda game mode maps where the servs are given empty simple keeps and fight over it. instead of improving that sandbox style anet has turned wvw into a pve circus!

Dawntree.7246:

Given the amount of upgrades required, I hardly believe we will see it before Christmas.

After evaluating scribe costs, given the cost to assemble a single use Tier 1 camp Improvement (55 gold today), we could even assume we won’t ever seeing this stuff. Ever. At any level.

Aeolus.3615:

The old BL’s were completely karma train maps(imo that is the wvw fights most talk for sure…and they want that back), they also had alot of flaws.

Everything started to help the larger servers after the big patch, even if they are unorganized they have plenty of more chances to win plus stealth from SM…

K-training wasn’t caused by old BLs layout, nor by lack of cheesy pve mechanics, but by 1) players mentality, 2) rewarding players numbers over players skill. All different mechanics introduced to WvW for all previous updates were focused on: 1) limiting efficiency of smaller size skilled group in favour of the mindless blob, 2) giving bigger advantage to structure defenders. This started with increasing AC’s power, terbuchets stealing supplies, stability nerf, and pirate ship meta. By design this was intended to discourage blobbing/k-training, but made something completely opposite.

I remember the very early WvW battles, where a good organized group was able to wipe a much bigger pug blob and claim fortified structures. For now both of this is no longer possible, since the numbers is the main factor of victory. More numbers = more supplies, more sieges, more cc, more ranged aoe, more stabi removal…

And all this will continue to be the same after the expansion. Introducing all the new crappy pve mechanics will not change it, it only makes playing on BLs more annoying and tedious. What could discourage k-traing is however bigger map size and longer time needed to claim a structure (e.g. lord killing time). But bigger map size makes the BLs to look empty and results in less chances for any fights. This makes easier to take empty structures, which leads back to k-training… Vicious circle…

A thing that would help stop K training is making it worth while to hold onto a site. Something like participation rewards they added to the new maps that would include PPT into it. So that point ticks really matter the higher you get them and event completion is needed so people can’t just AFK. Have event completion and ppt both factor in to the reward. This way you would really try to get your ppt up as high as possible and players would be very active in attacking and defending to get participation % up.

Also the current map layout and design makes it so you are better off K training. It needs to be redone. Its a beautiful map but the design is not good for healthy WvW, unless you consider the K train healthy.

Edit to add: I would still keep the rewards for taking a site. It would make WvW lame if anet took away those rewards and added them to a system like I mentioned. Keep the current rewards as is for short term goals so people that jump on for 30 min to kill some time roaming still get rewarded and have the new ppt/participation for extra incentive for those that play for the duration.