Okay, I would like to actually enjoy WvW for the past couple weeks but I can’t… the same results always occur.
Fort Aspenwood vs Tarnished Coast vs Yak’s Bend
Could anyone actually give me any explanation on how the draws work? I’m sure going up against the same opoonents three times in a row IS NOT supposed to happen.
[TC] Tarnished Coast
Officer / Warden – [GC] Golden Company X I I I
Rynn Ames – Staff (D/D) Elementalist
From my understanding you’re ranked according to point values, not merely win/loss, so continual close matches will fail to move your positioning enough to push you into a new matchup.
I agree that something should be done, yes. Maybe instead of making tiers of 3 all the time, take the first 3 out of rank 1, 2, 3 and 4, then take the next 3 out of the one that isn’t in that group and then two from ranks 5, 6 & 7 and so on.
Now it is very stale
Tallis – Perpetual newbie – Tarnished Coast.
Always carries a towel – Never panics – Eats cookies.
I agree that something should be done, yes. Maybe instead of making tiers of 3 all the time, take the first 3 out of rank 1, 2, 3 and 4, then take the next 3 out of the one that isn’t in that group and then two from ranks 5, 6 & 7 and so on.
Now it is very stale
Dude, I’d much rather have somewhat balanced and stale matchups rather than dynamic matchups where one server just ends up crushing by 300k points. There is a pretty big difference between some of the tiers of servers.
[AoS] Army of Shepherds | Jade Quarry
That thief shooting rainbows at you? That’s me.
I don’t mind having great fights against opponents, but being on TC we have beat YB 3 weeks in a row, this time by 70,000 points, and we have beaten FA 2 weeks in a row where IoJ the server above us has lost the last 2 weeks. At least since I have been paying attention to their match up. I think the servers ranked first and last of each tier should automatically switch no matter how close the match was just so you can get a bit of change going. This is obviously not counting the server ranked #1.
Buleye
Chronicles of Tyria (CoT)
Tarnished Coast (TC)
Okay, I would like to actually enjoy WvW for the past couple weeks but I can’t… the same results always occur.
Fort Aspenwood vs Tarnished Coast vs Yak’s Bend
Could anyone actually give me any explanation on how the draws work? I’m sure going up against the same opoonents three times in a row IS NOT supposed to happen.
If your server was dominant in this tier it would move up. If it was getting stomped it would move down. You are facing the same servers because it is the most even match up available.
Okay, I would like to actually enjoy WvW for the past couple weeks but I can’t… the same results always occur.
Fort Aspenwood vs Tarnished Coast vs Yak’s Bend
Could anyone actually give me any explanation on how the draws work? I’m sure going up against the same opoonents three times in a row IS NOT supposed to happen.
This site shows your all the information you need about the current week, what your ranking score will be based on the score, and who you will fight the following week.
/sign
Before people complained about server unbalance match up.
Now the match up are closed enough, a complaint about same opponents shows up.
There’s always transfer option for your needs though.
Wrath T – Asura Necro | Don Hohenheim – Norn Guard | Bellcroxx – Human Mesmer
[DKJ] – Jade Quarry
I honestly don’t know why the name of the server matters.
Do you want a balanced match? These matches are balanced based on a rating system that determines performance based on the ratings of those you face. We are matched together because we are more balanced together. Those above/below us aren’t in our bracket because they’d be a breeze/impossible.
Not sure why the text matters. Go out and have fun fighting competitive fights.
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
Okay, I would like to actually enjoy WvW for the past couple weeks but I can’t… the same results always occur.
Fort Aspenwood vs Tarnished Coast vs Yak’s Bend
Could anyone actually give me any explanation on how the draws work? I’m sure going up against the same opoonents three times in a row IS NOT supposed to happen.
If your server was dominant in this tier it would move up. If it was getting stomped it would move down. You are facing the same servers because it is the most even match up available.
Don’t get me wrong…I’ve had a great time playing with Yaks going on 4 weeks now…. but I would really love to see if TC can take on the guys in Tier 2. I’m also sure Yaks and FA would love a chance of taking on someone new instead wondering which one of them will come in second this week :P
JK YB and FA
Buleye
Chronicles of Tyria (CoT)
Tarnished Coast (TC)
Facing the same opponents means that you are the most closely matched servers. The goal of Glicko is to have as evenly matched games as possible. It’s trying to pair you with servers that you can compete with.
The Glicko rating system works by predicting match outcomes. When those expectations are not met or exceeded, you lose rating. This is why you can go up in rating even if you lose a match and vice versa. It’s all relative to how well the system predicted you would do versus how well you actually did.
If you want to face new opponents you need to do better or worse than your previous results by a large enough margin that you get bumped into another tier. You can also see a tier change if other servers are volatile enough – meaning they gain or lose enough rating to swap positions with you.
Facing the same opponents means that you are the most closely matched servers. The goal of Glicko is to have as evenly matched games as possible. It’s trying to pair you with servers that you can compete with.
The Glicko rating system works by predicting match outcomes. When those expectations are not met or exceeded, you lose rating. This is why you can go up in rating even if you lose a match and vice versa. It’s all relative to how well the system predicted you would do versus how well you actually did.
But where is the fun in that…fighting the same people over and over again because you’re so called evenly matched. I would rather fight a superior server with the slim possibility in winning. Cause if you do win the victory is all the sweeter.
I think the system should incorporate victories and losses over just ratings. I mean if a sports team loses every game they are expected to be in last not stay in say 3rd place because all their games were really close.
Buleye
Chronicles of Tyria (CoT)
Tarnished Coast (TC)
I don’t mind the matchup as it’s been consistently a pretty even fight. But if you really want the match to change, you should focus on attacking Yaks. According to the millenium system the matchup might change if Yaks loses by a wider margin and Crystal Desert wins their bracket by a sizable margin as well. If that were to happen, Crystal Desert would move up and replace Yaks as the T3 server. This is the way the matchups can change the fastest as Yaks is closer in total rank to Crystal Desert than Tarnished Coast is to Isle of Janthir. Assuming TC wins again and IoJ loses again they will likely swap the week after this current week.
Tldr: if you want the match to change by next week, focus on making Yaks lose badly. The week after next week it’s likely that TC will move up as long as everything stays roughly the same.
Well the only solution is to have more point gaps. Remember to move up one bucket, winning only in your bucket is not enough. You need to win over the 3rd server in higher bucket by means of point as well. Because just winning in current bucket does not mean your server is better than 3rd server in higher bucket. Just by mere win, the higher rank server should not moved down in the rank. It’s a fair system imo.
Wrath T – Asura Necro | Don Hohenheim – Norn Guard | Bellcroxx – Human Mesmer
[DKJ] – Jade Quarry
But where is the fun in that…fighting the same people over and over again because you’re so called evenly matched. I would rather fight a superior server with the slim possibility in winning. Cause if you do win the victory is all the sweeter.
I think the system should incorporate victories and losses over just ratings. I mean if a sports team loses every game they are expected to be in last not stay in say 3rd place because all their games were really close.
No, you really wouldn’t rather face a superior server. WvWvW mechanics require appropriate population and coverage, and if your server can’t hack it, you’ll log in to a huge deficit and facing fully reinforced/upgraded towers/keeps etc. Your fairweathers will stop playing, and you’ll have no chance. Then the superior server will get more ahead.
Where’s the fun in playing the same people over and over? You learn their subtleties. You figure out their personal styles and if you put half an effort, you can exploit it. Where’s the fun in fighting randoms that you don’t know with different text before “Invader” or “Defender”? Does that really spice it up at all? If so, how?
You can try to come up with “oh different worlds will have different strategies”, but if your strategies aren’t working well enough to stomp the servers you’re facing, why not start trying new ones in this match-up? Throw a curve-ball at players you’ve seen multiple weeks in a row.
I’d rather develop rivalries with WvWvW servers and recognize people in-game than just fight new servers every week.
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
There is a fairly wide gulf between tiers at the moment. T2-T3 is a huge jump. T2 servers such as SoR and BG have destroyed TC in the past, and IoJ have shown that they are capable of hanging with those two (in the same way YB is hanging with tier 3). Swapping IoJ and TC will predictably result in a blowout both ways – IoJ will crush through T3 and TC probably doesn’t stand a chance in T2.
The same applies to T4-T3. T4 is already feeling the effect from Crystal Desert which is obviously stronger than the other T4-regulars. Any of the current T3 servers are on average stronger or at least on par with Crystal Desert, so whoever moves down will still crush through T4.
The way the ratings work is to ensure that the matches are as close and competitive as possible, not to ensure variety. Looking at the stability of the top 3 tiers, it is already starting to work.
They just need to add more events and features to WvW, to spice things up a bit.
Yeah, just a few touches to make it “a bit different”.
Random colors, like multiple people mentioned, would be a good start. We could also have a randomly selected bonus pool at the start of the match. It would be list a list of in-game WvW bonus that each server randomly gets 2 of at the start of each week. We can call them “Ripples of the Mists”, and can include things like:
- Siege building and repair takes place 25% faster
- Each player can carry a maximum of 12 supplies instead of 10
- 50% more mercenary reinforcements
- Ally NPCs have 25% higher stats
- Workers upgrade structures 15% faster
- Supply camps restock 15% faster
- Siege weapons do 5% more damage
- Walls and gates have 15% more health
- Siege weapons have 10% more health
- Point capture is 25% faster
This is obviously a shoddy list of possible things and are no way balanced – only to provide some kind of idea of what bonus may be possible. Based on the 2 randomly assignment bonus, each server can formulate a slightly different strategy perhaps (also depending on the bonus that the opposing server is given). In this way, each if the same 3 server match up every week, the difference in the ripple bonus will make each week a bit more fresh.
I really don’t mind fighting the same servers week in week out. What I don’t like is for example Beastgate won by 20,000 points this week but still ends up loosing 40 rating points. If you win you should gain points regardless of your comparison rating. It should be scaled down in points if your expected to trounce the opposition, but you still should gain points which would mean if you keep winning you will eventually get your shot at the next level.
The way it is now, I cold see how a server with as much ambition as beastgate could feel frustrated that they keep winning and don’t get their shot again because the Glicko system is not right for this game in its current form. It’s close to right though, just modify the points calcs so that if you come 3rd you loose points if you win you gain points and it scales according to your current points ranking.
But where is the fun in that…fighting the same people over and over again because you’re so called evenly matched. I would rather fight a superior server with the slim possibility in winning. Cause if you do win the victory is all the sweeter.
I think the system should incorporate victories and losses over just ratings. I mean if a sports team loses every game they are expected to be in last not stay in say 3rd place because all their games were really close.
No, you really wouldn’t rather face a superior server. WvWvW mechanics require appropriate population and coverage, and if your server can’t hack it, you’ll log in to a huge deficit and facing fully reinforced/upgraded towers/keeps etc. Your fairweathers will stop playing, and you’ll have no chance. Then the superior server will get more ahead.
Where’s the fun in playing the same people over and over? You learn their subtleties. You figure out their personal styles and if you put half an effort, you can exploit it. Where’s the fun in fighting randoms that you don’t know with different text before “Invader” or “Defender”? Does that really spice it up at all? If so, how?
You can try to come up with “oh different worlds will have different strategies”, but if your strategies aren’t working well enough to stomp the servers you’re facing, why not start trying new ones in this match-up? Throw a curve-ball at players you’ve seen multiple weeks in a row.
I’d rather develop rivalries with WvWvW servers and recognize people in-game than just fight new servers every week.
Then why even have ranks. The whole purpose is to win until your server is number 1, no matter how difficult that may be. But don’t forget Guilds heavy in WvW jump to new servers all the time if they look promising. So who knows if the number and strength of personnel will change for that weeks match up. Already met a few people from FA who have join TC’s ranks.
The fun in fighting new servers every week is that you have to adapt quickly to win. I won’t speak for my server, everyone probably feels different, but winning every week for 4 weeks against the same opponents at rank 7 is starting to get old. Also the only reason servers use to get stomped so badly was when they had the orbs you needed to capture. Since then scores don’t seem to ever be that high anymore. So I feel winning by 70,000 is a pretty decent win since you will never see those 400,000 to 90,000 scores anymore unless your opponent really isn’t trying. And those servers like SoR and BG beat TC when the orbs still existed, same with the other servers above us.
Buleye
Chronicles of Tyria (CoT)
Tarnished Coast (TC)
For the people that say the name of the server doesn’t matter, if your having balance populations it should be great matches. If its red its dead.
The problem with that is you are playing against the same people for long periods of time. Which more likely then not means the same tactics at the same times of day by the same numbers. If I can log into WvW and basically write a script for how my night will proceed, this is a problem, and yes it is boring. We all like the changing up. Rotating colors randomly would be something, but the BL’s would be the same. Tier stagnation I think is a big problem for WvW future something Anet needs to look into. People get bored, people move on, I have been hearing a lot of it lately from people.
I think this is basically a symptom of major population issues on servers. A problem that should never been allowed to escalate as it has. Fix the population issues and you will have no shortage of balance matches as well as much more variety and even more competition, which is stuff I think we all want.
Okay, I would like to actually enjoy WvW for the past couple weeks but I can’t… the same results always occur.
Fort Aspenwood vs Tarnished Coast vs Yak’s Bend
Could anyone actually give me any explanation on how the draws work? I’m sure going up against the same opoonents three times in a row IS NOT supposed to happen.
well except for the fact that all three servers get around the same score for the majority of the “match.”
sure TC usually pulls ahead but perhaps going up one will be ruinous for YB and FA and going down one might not be fair to those “below” us on the scale (no disrespect to those ranked lower then us intended), leaving TC as the best match up possible atm.
idk, but thinking it through and coming up with a possible reason to me seems like a better way to figure it out then QQing on the forums.
The problem with that is you are playing against the same people for long periods of time. Which more likely then not means the same tactics at the same times of day by the same numbers. If I can log into WvW and basically write a script for how my night will proceed, this is a problem, and yes it is boring. We all like the changing up.
Actually, using the same tactics will not be the most likely scenario, specially because you are fighting them over long periods of time. The servers will come up with counter tactics that will gain them the edge. As time goes on, these counter-tactics will be countered, and so on, making the matches more skillful till the servers involve go up/down in rank, where they will meet opponents that are worthy of their advanced strategy.
The problem with that is you are playing against the same people for long periods of time. Which more likely then not means the same tactics at the same times of day by the same numbers. If I can log into WvW and basically write a script for how my night will proceed, this is a problem, and yes it is boring. We all like the changing up.
Actually, using the same tactics will not be the most likely scenario, specially because you are fighting them over long periods of time. The servers will come up with counter tactics that will gain them the edge. As time goes on, these counter-tactics will be countered, and so on, making the matches more skillful till the servers involve go up/down in rank, where they will meet opponents that are worthy of their advanced strategy.
While this is very very true, one variable that counters it to a degree for this grouping of 3 is that TC has vastly more people. Not saying they arent skilled by any means, but bigger numbers means you can get away with sloppier play and still come out ahead. There are really not that many options you have when outnumbered….and I think most are actively being used.
The problem with that is you are playing against the same people for long periods of time. Which more likely then not means the same tactics at the same times of day by the same numbers. If I can log into WvW and basically write a script for how my night will proceed, this is a problem, and yes it is boring. We all like the changing up.
Actually, using the same tactics will not be the most likely scenario, specially because you are fighting them over long periods of time. The servers will come up with counter tactics that will gain them the edge. As time goes on, these counter-tactics will be countered, and so on, making the matches more skillful till the servers involve go up/down in rank, where they will meet opponents that are worthy of their advanced strategy.
While this is very very true, one variable that counters it to a degree for this grouping of 3 is that TC has vastly more people. Not saying they arent skilled by any means, but bigger numbers means you can get away with sloppier play and still come out ahead. There are really not that many options you have when outnumbered….and I think most are actively being used.
Then they will move up in rank soon. It’s not about just your current matchup, but about the others too.
Actually, using the same tactics will not be the most likely scenario, specially because you are fighting them over long periods of time. The servers will come up with counter tactics that will gain them the edge. As time goes on, these counter-tactics will be countered, and so on, making the matches more skillful till the servers involve go up/down in rank, where they will meet opponents that are worthy of their advanced strategy.
In an ideal world that would be true but that just does not happen. This is not a server specific thing either. Please don’t think this is a comment about a specific server. The losing servers do the same tactics again and again as well, even my own. This is why it is good to get some variety among servers, different guilds, different commanders, different ideas, a new challenge. Without this I really cannot understand why people play WvW at all. When the opponent becomes predictable how is that different then PvE?
If the winning server keeps winning doing what they do it’s probably up to the losing servers to think of something new. Ideally, something eventually works and the winning server is forced to adapt, driving competition forward.
The losing servers do the same tactics again and again as well, even my own.
That’s why they are the losing servers. See the part where I said
making the matches more skillful till the servers involve(sic) go up/down in rank
If a server is not adapting, they will lose, and they will go down in rank to face opponents with similar strategies. If they want to go back up, they will have to adapt.
I think the issue you actually have is that it takes time for that to happen, because matches are 1 week long and, as I said in another post, it’s not about just your current matchup, but all the others above or below as well; their ratings will affect your matchup in the next week.
I take this to mean that server populations are settling and that there is less bandwagonning going on. I was bound to happen, and as someone else stated, these are the most even matches available.
That’s not to say that playing the same people doesn’t get boring. I think a seasonal ladder reset would be nice, resetting everything ever 3 months or so.
I take this to mean that server populations are settling and that there is less bandwagonning going on. I was bound to happen, and as someone else stated, these are the most even matches available.
That’s not to say that playing the same people doesn’t get boring. I think a seasonal ladder reset would be nice, resetting everything ever 3 months or so.
Resets don’t work because ranking is basically a function of server populations. This is at the core of all WvW problems at the moment if you ask me (aside from lack of development/rewards).
As far as adapting goes, the hypothesis of this is that skill = win. When that idea is simply not true. Adapting new tactics will not give you a win in WvW against a much larger force, that just is what it is. There are many limitations in WvW as it currently stand so depending on your resources (man power or money) you can only try a set of things. There is also the issue of time slot coverage which new ‘tactics’ or adapting will not help fix. Only when every server has the exact same population at the exact same times (or at least very similar) can we really talk about strategy as if it really mattered.
Thank goodness sports teams/organizations don’t use the Glicko rating system. Imagine if you always got to watch the same two football/basketball/baseball/soccer teams playing every single time. Wouldn’t that be exciting. hehe
So we’re finally in a balanced, competitive, and stable matchup and people start to complain…
I thought this is what we wanted since everyone was complaining about server transfers borking the rankings in the first place?
What you call “stale” I call balanced. Any time FA dropped back into T4 we completely dominated and we aren’t ready for T2. This is our place to improve.
Thank goodness sports teams/organizations don’t use the Glicko rating system. Imagine if you always got to watch the same two football/basketball/baseball/soccer teams playing every single time. Wouldn’t that be exciting. hehe
Yeah and round robin WvW would be so much more fun. /sarcasm
Stonesolid – Sylvari Mesmer
Member of Unlimited [ULTD]
Fort Aspenwood’s Force of Chaos
Thank goodness sports teams/organizations don’t use the Glicko rating system. Imagine if you always got to watch the same two football/basketball/baseball/soccer teams playing every single time. Wouldn’t that be exciting. hehe
Look its not even remotely the same. Its a 3 way not a 2 way. Now if there were say 3 basketball teams and another hoop at half court for the third team……..
I take this to mean that server populations are settling and that there is less bandwagonning going on. I was bound to happen, and as someone else stated, these are the most even matches available.
That’s not to say that playing the same people doesn’t get boring. I think a seasonal ladder reset would be nice, resetting everything ever 3 months or so.
Resets don’t work because ranking is basically a function of server populations. This is at the core of all WvW problems at the moment if you ask me (aside from lack of development/rewards).
As far as adapting goes, the hypothesis of this is that skill = win. When that idea is simply not true. Adapting new tactics will not give you a win in WvW against a much larger force, that just is what it is. There are many limitations in WvW as it currently stand so depending on your resources (man power or money) you can only try a set of things. There is also the issue of time slot coverage which new ‘tactics’ or adapting will not help fix. Only when every server has the exact same population at the exact same times (or at least very similar) can we really talk about strategy as if it really mattered.
Agree. WvW is a numbers game….tier 1&2 are “FULL” servers….as is TC in tier 3. The only viable independent strategy for the other servers in tier 3 is to recruit and get more and better coverage as well if the ultimate goal is a more competitive (score wise) match-up.
I honestly don’t know why the name of the server matters.
Do you want a balanced match? These matches are balanced based on a rating system that determines performance based on the ratings of those you face. We are matched together because we are more balanced together. Those above/below us aren’t in our bracket because they’d be a breeze/impossible.
Not sure why the text matters. Go out and have fun fighting competitive fights.
I honestly don’t know why the name of the server matters.
Do you want a balanced match? These matches are balanced based on a rating system that determines performance based on the ratings of those you face. We are matched together because we are more balanced together. Those above/below us aren’t in our bracket because they’d be a breeze/impossible.
Not sure why the text matters. Go out and have fun fighting competitive fights.
Agree. WvW is a numbers game….tier 1&2 are “FULL” servers….as is TC in tier 3. The only viable independent strategy for the other servers in tier 3 is to recruit and get more and better coverage as well if the ultimate goal is a more competitive (score wise) match-up.
I agree the only way for those lower servers to compete is to get more people. But they what will end up happening is you will have say 5 totally super full servers and the rest become a wasteland.
I would really like to see Anets response on this issue, as far as I know they have not really said anything at this point in time. And personally I really doubt ‘guesting’ will really solve this problem.
As a note a lot of people have seen this coming and population issues have been discussed on these forums for months.
I honestly don’t know why the name of the server matters.
Do you want a balanced match? These matches are balanced based on a rating system that determines performance based on the ratings of those you face. We are matched together because we are more balanced together. Those above/below us aren’t in our bracket because they’d be a breeze/impossible.
Not sure why the text matters. Go out and have fun fighting competitive fights.
Ratings =/= balance. DUCY?
No. I don’t see why. Now that the ratings are (semi)correct were in a much more balanced matchup. We aren’t dominating the entire map for most of the day and neither is any other server. We actually have competition and contention over the overall scores not to mention tons of great fights day after day.
Explain to me how the ratings don’t balance matches.
Stonesolid – Sylvari Mesmer
Member of Unlimited [ULTD]
Fort Aspenwood’s Force of Chaos
Agree. WvW is a numbers game….tier 1&2 are “FULL” servers….as is TC in tier 3. The only viable independent strategy for the other servers in tier 3 is to recruit and get more and better coverage as well if the ultimate goal is a more competitive (score wise) match-up.
I agree the only way for those lower servers to compete is to get more people. But they what will end up happening is you will have say 5 totally super full servers and the rest become a wasteland.
I would really like to see Anets response on this issue, as far as I know they have not really said anything at this point in time. And personally I really doubt ‘guesting’ will really solve this problem.
As a note a lot of people have seen this coming and population issues have been discussed on these forums for months.
What does guesting have to do with it? It has nothing to do with WvW.
Now the fact that free transfers will end when guesting is up, does.
According to the mos site, it looks like there will be a lot of movement in the rankings. CD and YB might switch which will affect T3 and T4. AR is moving to T6 which will make for a good match against SF and BP. HoD will move down to T7 which will still have ET in it. GoM will be a big winner there in terms of score. Will be a boring match though.
I’m excited to see CD if they really do get to come up again. We (FA) haven’t fought against them in a 7-day match yet. TC/YB/CD already happened and TC/FA/YB is on its third round. FA/YB/CD would be interesting but it is unlikely TC will collapse and fall to T4. Edit: Another possibility is for one of the top six servers to collapse so TC goes up and that server makes its way down, but that also isn’t likely.
I´m quite sure twas already mentioned .. but this “idea”, would also get rid of your .. ehm .. “unecessary” requests for change in the game mechanics. We have American, European & Asian regions .. multiple servers for each. So how about you take ONLY one, two groups & try out teaching, or doing something “abroad”? Transfers are limited by one week & you still be in your own guild – so social talk will remain the same.
Go have some “suicidal” fun .. point number two – with your knowledge of warfare, you will be able to 5man any low tier zergs .. won´t ya?
Charr Engineer
Death is Energy [DIE]
Underworld server; WvW – UW border/defence
Any change is highly likely to be a one week hiatus, so you guys might as well get used to this match up. If Yak’s moves down, we most likely would crush T4, and I don’t think there’s any reason to believe CD has changed enough in the past 3 weeks to do anything in T3. And trust me TC, you do not want to fight SoR and Blackgate in T2.
