Guild Wars 2

So on IoJ yesterday, we had a breather in the early evening. We took the opportunity to start upgrading and stocking Bay for the attack that would surely come. And it did.

And as we’re defending, a person who doesn’t frequent WvW (I at least recognize most of the names out there by now) comes into the keep, builds a golem, marches it out the gate and bails out. I reported him and tried to call him out on his actions, but he just said “I’m having some fun” and to get a life.

How do you handle this type of sabotage? Is it just “part of the game”? Is it a bannable offense? What’s to stop me or someone else from having another account just to do this type of thing?

Can we get a better reporting option?
Right now it’s something like selling gold, scamming, botting, or inappropriate name – none of which really fall into this category.

It doesn’t sound like griefing to me. You want people who build siege you don’t approve of to be banned?

So, my IRL friend who doesn’t do WvW and resides on another server – I can ask him to switch to CD, send him some gold, and tell him to go have some fun in CD’s borderlands, and that’s just cool?

If it is, I need to switch tactics. That’s a MUCH easier way to drain a keep’s supply than sieging it!

Your only assume he isn’t originally from your server, let me remind you it is his golem blue print he is entitled to do with it what he chooses if he wants to use some Supply to build it and try out a golem only to ditch it outside realising 1 it aint fast and second it’s no good without a door to pound on then that’s his loss not yours.

It would be a whole different matter if he was building multiple golem with the keeps supply and ditching them then he really would be suspicious or worse still stealing your golems to ditch outside. My conclusion is an isolated incident here where some dude wanted to probably try out a golem for the first time don’t jump too quick to conclusions.

Kincaidia.3192:

So, my IRL friend who doesn’t do WvW and resides on another server – I can ask him to switch to CD, send him some gold, and tell him to go have some fun in CD’s borderlands, and that’s just cool?

If it is, I need to switch tactics. That’s a MUCH easier way to drain a keep’s supply than sieging it!

It is apparently a “legitimate tactic”.

Unfortunately, the best response at the moment is to take screenshots/fraps it, report it (even though that is likely pointless), inform people in your BL it is happening and that they shouldn’t rely on supply, and then man up and play through it.

I personally try to think of it like a negative random event that happens from time to time (i.e., “a spy has spawned in your keep and wasted 200 supply”), but it does suck and it’s unfortunate when players do it because you know that there is a thinking person behind the keyboard who is choosing to be antisocial.

Most of the time, the person doing it is likely a troll/griefer just looking for attention and to ruin your day. It was good you didn’t say their name or post screenshots here, in fact. It’s fine to tell ppl in your map that so-and-so is wasting supply though, but don’t feed the troll or give them publicity here.

And, yeah, honestly… Pinko has a point. The only thing that really prevents ppl from doing stuff like that is a social contract between players. Not everybody is going to conform to those rules and it is very hard to stop people from violating the intended design of the game.

Of course, there are rules against players engaging in activities that disrupt matches (which supply wasting definitely qualifies as), but the manpower and time needed to enforce that kind of a rule makes it very unlikely you’ll see anything done about it. If you want that kind of support in an MMO you play, your best bet is to build a time machine and go back and play UO or Meridian 59 when they first launched. Not that I agree, just saying what I think the reality is at the moment… ;P

To be fair, at least you can nick the golem and waypoint it away

This week is the first week I’ve actively seen supply griefing to the point of 10 rams being built round a supply depot and upgrades being ordered during a siege. If you can’t buy siege equipment when a place is being attacked then why on earth should you still be allowed to buy upgrades that could decimate precious supply?

Only way to combat it, is always carry supply and keep those supply routes open and hope they don’t keep doing it.

You remember that this is a game, right? If that player came to WvW to play around, and try stuff out, that’s his fun and his business. Freaking out at him will just ensure that he doesn’t come back. If he has some fun learning how siege works, he may get interested enough in WvW to join and “be useful” in the future. Alienating players who are just trying things out is a sure fire way to prevent new players joining the shrinking WvW community.

Not a good example in the op. Players just trying something out, having fun, at minor expense to your team aren’t griefers. Though it’s certainly a breach of etiquette if this happened when the supply was direly needed.

Most similar cases aren’t griefing, it concerns newbs who think it’s a good idea (aside from people clicking the wrong blueprint). Matter of educating and staying sharp.

In some cases, sure it does happen. Some servers may send over spies to drain supply at a critical moment, or players of your server go griefing for the sake of it. Seeing how there is no way for us to punish or even stop them, this is up to ANet. Report such players and, if they make a habit of it and reports come in regularly, I suspect ANet will act. Imo getting banned over that should be enough to make people reconsider whether that bit of fun or those few thousand points were worth their account.

Oh well, at least they don’t make their minions neutral in a Lord’s Room :P

Not the best example, but there is, for sure, some legitimate cross-team griefing going on:

• Claim a critical enemy cannon or mortar with your secondary account, then sit on it and do nothing, just to tie it up. Also works with all other siege, if the owner isn’t around.
• Claim a major enemy keep with your guild (which is actually just your secondary account) so that a real guild can’t claim it and put buffs up.
• Buy silly, largely worthless upgrades at forts just to burn supply.
• The old “deploy 10 rams and use up all the supply” trick. Note that this doesn’t even necessarily cost money since you can get free siege from jumping puzzles.
• Jump on enemy trebs and turn them 180 degrees. Yes, I have actually seen people do this. How lame can you get?

Most of this stems from the fact that transfers are free, you can do it once a week, and you can jump into WvW immediately.

Arenanet saw all of this coming and said that transferring would lock you out of WvW for at least one full cycle, perhaps two, but they have never implemented this. All of the predicted abuses are in full swing now.

Arenanet could also fix most of these problems by changing the design slightly…

• The guild that claims a fort should be able to kick people off of fort siege engines (this was actually in the patch notes, but never worked)
• A guild with more buffs running can take ownership away from a guild with fewer buffs running
• All of the stupid, worthless waste of supply fort upgrades should be improved or else have their supply cost lowered dramatically.
• Jumping puzzles should stop dropping free siege. If you want to waste supply, spend silver or badges to get the blueprints.

Tortun.5946:

If you can’t buy siege equipment when a place is being attacked then why on earth should you still be allowed to buy upgrades that could decimate precious supply?

At least some upgrades restore a keeps/towers gates and walls to full health, so if you manage to hold of the enemy long enough, your enemy may suddenly be staring at a reinforced gate at 100% health.

Was defending garrison once, had a comfortable amount of supply, and then BAM someone queues up hire merchants right as the enemy zerg is forming up outside. 600 supply gone in an instant, at the price of what 10-15s?

There has to be ways to fix that type of thing. It is too easy, and there is no way to counter-play it.

I’m really tempted to transfer to a Tier 1 server and see how hard I can troll. I imagine that would get some needed attention.

Interesting idea for a solution though – the claiming guild has a public and a private supply stash, and only the claiming guild can order upgrades.

Somebody else once suggested that commanders should have the ability to destroy unwanted siege and recover the supply that was used to build it … limited to the upgrade level of the camp/fort/keep of course. The only problem I see with it is that a commander could himself be a rogue agent planted by the enemy to destroy important siege.

Some people have also said that spies and saboteurs exist in real life wars and therefore should be expected here as well, but that ignores the fact that in real life we have the ability to permanently kill them on the spot … in GW2 we don’t.

Kincaidia.3192:

I’m really tempted to transfer to a Tier 1 server and see how hard I can troll. I imagine that would get some needed attention.

Interesting idea for a solution though – the claiming guild has a public and a private supply stash, and only the claiming guild can order upgrades.

I like your first idea but hate your second one. There are MANY times during off hours that I am the only one upgrading a tower after a flip and guarding the supply yaks to it. Besides, what would prevent a saboteur from doing the claiming for some obscure guild that doesn’t even exist except for him and then refusing to order upgrades?

Kincaidia.3192:

Interesting idea for a solution though – the claiming guild has a public and a private supply stash, and only the claiming guild can order upgrades.

That’ll be a logistical nightmare.

Under the current system, I can claim a keep, put up my guild buffs, and let my server enjoy the benefits of our sweet buffs even after everyone in my guild has logged for the night. With your proposal, we shouldn’t claim anything unless we set up 24-hour presence to manage the keep.

Also, as bad as some random using up supply might be, imagine a couple of guys locking you out of upgrading ANYTHING EVER by just claiming kitten and abandoning it.

Safir.9203:

Unfortunately, the best response at the moment is to take screenshots/fraps it, report it (even though that is likely pointless), inform people in your BL it is happening and that they shouldn’t rely on supply, and then man up and play through it.

I personally try to think of it like a negative random event that happens from time to time (i.e., “a spy has spawned in your keep and wasted 200 supply”), but it does suck and it’s unfortunate when players do it because you know that there is a thinking person behind the keyboard who is choosing to be antisocial.

Most of the time, the person doing it is likely a troll/griefer just looking for attention and to ruin your day. It was good you didn’t say their name or post screenshots here, in fact. It’s fine to tell ppl in your map that so-and-so is wasting supply though, but don’t feed the troll or give them publicity here.

And, yeah, honestly… Pinko has a point. The only thing that really prevents ppl from doing stuff like that is a social contract between players. Not everybody is going to conform to those rules and it is very hard to stop people from violating the intended design of the game.

Of course, there are rules against players engaging in activities that disrupt matches (which supply wasting definitely qualifies as), but the manpower and time needed to enforce that kind of a rule makes it very unlikely you’ll see anything done about it. If you want that kind of support in an MMO you play, your best bet is to build a time machine and go back and play UO or Meridian 59 when they first launched. Not that I agree, just saying what I think the reality is at the moment… ;P

I love that you referenced the old UO. I miss that game more than any game ever. The best thing about that game was that it was implicitly balanced because of the open PvP. Idiots got handled. I’d give anything to go back to playing UO around ’99. There was – and as far as I can tell – there never will be another game as great as that one.

Kincaidia.3192:

So, my IRL friend who doesn’t do WvW and resides on another server – I can ask him to switch to CD, send him some gold, and tell him to go have some fun in CD’s borderlands, and that’s just cool?

If it is, I need to switch tactics. That’s a MUCH easier way to drain a keep’s supply than sieging it!

This has been going on for awhile, where have you been?

Kincaidia.3192:

So on IoJ yesterday, we had a breather in the early evening. We took the opportunity to start upgrading and stocking Bay for the attack that would surely come. And it did.

And as we’re defending, a person who doesn’t frequent WvW (I at least recognize most of the names out there by now) comes into the keep, builds a golem, marches it out the gate and bails out. I reported him and tried to call him out on his actions, but he just said “I’m having some fun” and to get a life.

How do you handle this type of sabotage? Is it just “part of the game”? Is it a bannable offense? What’s to stop me or someone else from having another account just to do this type of thing?

Can we get a better reporting option?
Right now it’s something like selling gold, scamming, botting, or inappropriate name – none of which really fall into this category.

Hard to prove thats griefing. The guy could just be new to WvW, have got his hands on a golem blueprint but picked the worst possible time to try it out. If you think its griefing, report to ArenaNet so they can track the guy and see if he builds up a history of doing that, in which case it becomes provable he’s griefing.

On its own though, this is just muppetry. Annoying as hell, but just muppetry.

Axle.5182:

Your only assume he isn’t originally from your server, let me remind you it is his golem blue print he is entitled to do with it what he chooses if he wants to use some Supply to build it and try out a golem only to ditch it outside realising 1 it aint fast and second it’s no good without a door to pound on then that’s his loss not yours.

It would be a whole different matter if he was building multiple golem with the keeps supply and ditching them then he really would be suspicious or worse still stealing your golems to ditch outside. My conclusion is an isolated incident here where some dude wanted to probably try out a golem for the first time don’t jump too quick to conclusions.

I don’t think the OP cared about the golem blueprint, it’s the supply that bugged him. It would bug me too. Tower/Keep supply is communal, and is generally only spent on agreed upon things or left to trusting hands. There are a lot of times supply can mean the difference between victory and defeat. So it is kind of everyone’s loss.

As for whether or not he is guilty of anything, who knows. It’s too small an incident to warrant any inquiry really. I would simply keep an eye out for that to happen again from the same player.

I got upset the other day because this guy kept taking tower supply, during an upgrade, to build a couple ballista’s in obviously bad spots. Found out later it was a mother’s 6-yo she let play a bit while she was busy with something. She said he thought he was helping. Needless to say I felt like a grade-A kitten.

Tortun.5946:

To be fair, at least you can nick the golem and waypoint it away

This week is the first week I’ve actively seen supply griefing to the point of 10 rams being built round a supply depot and upgrades being ordered during a siege. If you can’t buy siege equipment when a place is being attacked then why on earth should you still be allowed to buy upgrades that could decimate precious supply?

Only way to combat it, is always carry supply and keep those supply routes open and hope they don’t keep doing it.

The following didn’t took place during a siege:
I think I was present at that time and place, and as far as I remember people were just totally fooling around with siege, being morons for the lols of it, because a big golem army was supposed to be build and everyone was being totally silly. Fooling people into building rams and stuff and generally having fun
The problem is…. when I returned to said spot, pugs were building all the rams… probably just because of sillyness also, but when someone sees this place afterwards, it must have been like seeing a spy supply drain, which it wasn’t.

Devs should really implement a function to destroy unwanted siege to get supplies back, but on the other hand, spies would then abuse this mechanic.
I remember ANet saying that WvW would never be fair…. so there.

You should chillax and enjoy the video game too

Part of being a regular in Tarnished Coast’s battlegrounds is that we frequently get people new to WvW who have heard we are more patient than most and feel like checking it out. I remember my first night in WvW and I can tell you, it is very confusing.

If you actually make it to a commander without getting destroyed by thieves, you are usually told conflicting directions on when to take supply, when not to take supply, when to build and when not to build. If you are lucky enough to find a golem blueprint off a kill, there’s no instructions that say this isn’t a kick kitten fighting robot, but a boring door smasher that gets slowly dragged around the map to hit doors then pop immediately back to spawn.

My point is that so much of this can be solved by one person relaying some now common sense information to new people and offering to answer questions in tells if anyone needs it. Most people genuinely want to be helping rather than hurting, and if you are just clear on the best way to help and the reasons some things hurt, then you will be surprised how fast they start doing the right thing over the wrong.

Pannonica.5378:

Tortun.5946:

To be fair, at least you can nick the golem and waypoint it away

This week is the first week I’ve actively seen supply griefing to the point of 10 rams being built round a supply depot and upgrades being ordered during a siege. If you can’t buy siege equipment when a place is being attacked then why on earth should you still be allowed to buy upgrades that could decimate precious supply?

Only way to combat it, is always carry supply and keep those supply routes open and hope they don’t keep doing it.

The following didn’t took place during a siege:
I think I was present at that time and place, and as far as I remember people were just totally fooling around with siege, being morons for the lols of it, because a big golem army was supposed to be build and everyone was being totally silly. Fooling people into building rams and stuff and generally having fun
The problem is…. when I returned to said spot, pugs were building all the rams… probably just because of sillyness also, but when someone sees this place afterwards, it must have been like seeing a spy supply drain, which it wasn’t.

Devs should really implement a function to destroy unwanted siege to get supplies back, but on the other hand, spies would then abuse this mechanic.
I remember ANet saying that WvW would never be fair…. so there.

erm u a re aware of the fact, that your solution backfires?
If we are able to destruct siege, spies will destroy your siege the moment their server approaches with a golem rush or so…

selan.8354:

Pannonica.5378:

Tortun.5946:

To be fair, at least you can nick the golem and waypoint it away

This week is the first week I’ve actively seen supply griefing to the point of 10 rams being built round a supply depot and upgrades being ordered during a siege. If you can’t buy siege equipment when a place is being attacked then why on earth should you still be allowed to buy upgrades that could decimate precious supply?

Only way to combat it, is always carry supply and keep those supply routes open and hope they don’t keep doing it.

The following didn’t took place during a siege:
I think I was present at that time and place, and as far as I remember people were just totally fooling around with siege, being morons for the lols of it, because a big golem army was supposed to be build and everyone was being totally silly. Fooling people into building rams and stuff and generally having fun
The problem is…. when I returned to said spot, pugs were building all the rams… probably just because of sillyness also, but when someone sees this place afterwards, it must have been like seeing a spy supply drain, which it wasn’t.

Devs should really implement a function to destroy unwanted siege to get supplies back, but on the other hand, spies would then abuse this mechanic.
I remember ANet saying that WvW would never be fair…. so there.

erm u a re aware of the fact, that your solution backfires?
If we are able to destruct siege, spies will destroy your siege the moment their server approaches with a golem rush or so…

Last part of the second to last sentence in my post…. the post you quoted kitten
Ah, what the heck… italic’d it for you in the above. ^^.

• The guild that claims a fort should be able to kick people off of fort siege engines (this was actually in the patch notes, but never worked)

No. That’s honestly a load of BS. And people wouldn’t drop siege if this were to happen since 80% of guilds who claim a location don’t drop siege in it, non guildies do/other guilds.

• A guild with more buffs running can take ownership away from a guild with fewer buffs running

Agreed