Guild Wars 2

Heheh for years other classes get to spam out boon sharing stability, protection, resistance, regen, healing to the point that it went overboard. The moment necros finally get to support with barriers, NERF IT!

Frankly I was kinda surprised it was made a group cast instead of personal shielding, as I figured it was a way to give necros that extra shielding they lost from going into shroud.

Anet wants to build combat to be boons vs conditions, with more emphasis on conditions and corruption this expansion, I think they felt they needed another type of protection spell like resistance.

Don’t think we would see 40 necros raids much, as not everyone wants to play them, elementalist were pretty op back in the day, did you see 40 man elementalist raids regularly?

But don’t worry I’m sure Anet will nerf the barrier in a hard way, as they’ve turned their two elites into garbage already and nerfed one of their main shroud traits, shouldn’t be hard for them to do.

Whoever started this post needs to calm down.

Things being powerful is not a problem. That’s the whole point in a fantasy game.

Number 2 – This hasn’t been released yet. Let it play out for 3-6 months at most and the determine course of action balance wise.

You remember what happened to core necromancer AT RELEASE just after the beta in 2012? Yea, kittening got overnerfed to the ground.

And it was themetically stiffled because “it’s not supposed to have stability” for some odd reason other than theme. The class became very inefficient and was just stupid design without creative forethought to understand what the profession is, while still allowing creative fun ways to compensate and maintaining it’s power despite it’s limitations

This is what the Scourge does, LET IT PLAY OUT. If anything, Scourge doesn’t need attention.

The core necro needs buffs FIRST. They should leave Scourge as is, let it play for 3-6 months tops, buff core necro if they decide to nerf Scourge.

Think about how dumb it’ll be to nerf Scourge, after the Reaper Nerf, and the subsequent lack of forethought with core necro.

Thank you. lord…

too many really dumb people caught up on “40 TIGERS VS 40 SHARKS LETS THEORYCRAFT”

the point is the concept of barriers that has very little opportunity cost, how barriers work (stacking), and most importantly, all applied with a above average ally aoe limit. people are really not appreciating how having up to 20 allies be affected by anything is an insane power multiplier

I can’t imagine a world where scourge isn’t dragging the game back to an unhealthy state where zergs are too tanky. Again, this is because scourge’s mechanics scale unhealthily with number of allies around you. Scourge is already VERY good in 5 man, but gets stupid in zergs due to previously mentioned mechanics.

Hana.8143:

To explain a little bit more, we were 40 scourges (and probably 25 at the end of the event) We

Any classs stacking class zerg is a test driven error, is not an appropriate test. 40 guards zerg is over-powerful. 40 minions necros or rangers win by laggins the server with pet spam and so on.

An appropriate test would be with zergs stacking by groups formation, like classic 2xguards/necro/ele /rev VS to any zerg also with groups formed by some new elite specs.

Lahmia.2193:

Jski.6180:

If Scourge ship as is that will be the end of class out side of necor. I am not sure why Anet is letting this one dev. make such broken classes.

Scourge may brake wvw to the point of not being playable unless you are a scourge.

A message from the Skills and Balance Team:
There have been a number of changes and bug fixes to some of the specializations since the first time you were able to play them during the WvW/PvP Preview Weekend. However, we still are vetting and testing many of the changes, and as a result the stress test today will have the same versions that were featured during the preview weekend. You’ll be able to see the updated elite specialization changes on September 22nd!
See you in Tyria!

Good! I hope boons are not going to become more of a risk then a well boon.

Ubi.4136:

Where is the OP’s uproar at the video showing a thief hitting another player for over 100k damage?

?
Nobody has 100k hp

LetoII.3782:

Ubi.4136:

Where is the OP’s uproar at the video showing a thief hitting another player for over 100k damage?

?
Nobody has 100k hp

There’s been some uproar over that hit and for the many others in the 40k range.

XenesisII.1540:

LetoII.3782:

Ubi.4136:

Where is the OP’s uproar at the video showing a thief hitting another player for over 100k damage?

?
Nobody has 100k hp

There’s been some uproar over that hit and for the many others in the 40k range.

Spvp kind of broken like that there realty no def gear. As this is wvw talk not as big of a deal.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Hana.8143:

It’s like the mesmer in 2013 (or 2014 ?), when he had that trait, and took fall damages, and did 20k every sec with the aoe that pop under its feet.

I’m sorry, what?

Chaos storm has never done 20k damage a second.

It was a bug and lasted like 2 weeks. Fun as hell while it lasted. Only affected Chaos Storm from the falling trait.

Tzozef.9841:

Whoever started this post needs to calm down.
Number 2 – This hasn’t been released yet. Let it play out for 3-6 months at most and the determine course of action balance wise.

This is the most troubling thing to me when I hear this. This attitude is what’s wrong with gaming and the world. If you condone this mentality, then there will be very few, if any, quality players left in the game. We already lost a lot of good, quality guilds with HoT because they didn’t have it anywhere close to right upon release and it took months for them to fix. I think so many of us are super concerned because we don’t want to see another mass exodus.

Tzozef.9841:

This is what the Scourge does, LET IT PLAY OUT. If anything, Scourge doesn’t need attention.

Seriously? It’s called using ones mind to predict an outcome. There are a lot of people here in the WvW forums and the other forums saying this is bad. They like the class, find it interesting where it’s going, but it’s bad for the game. Why is that so hard for folks to understand. Prediction based on past behavior and extrapolation information presented to us.

We’re not talking about roaming, or 1v1s. Most of WvW is large group combat. I think that’s another point of failure here and another reason why so many people don’t want any “nerf.” But multiply this class, as is by 20 or more, and it’s game over. Throw in a guard or warrior spellbreaker for good measure. No reason to have any other class.

THIS ISN’T HARD TO FIGURE OUT!!!

Tzozef.9841:

The core necro needs buffs FIRST. They should leave Scourge as is, let it play for 3-6 months tops, buff core necro if they decide to nerf Scourge.

These are two different arguments completely and should not be joined. All base classes need to be buffed, not just the necro. Reaper is superior to base necro, and the scourge, in WvW, will be better than both. Making the base necro better will not change how damaging the scourge is to WvW unless drastically changed.

Move out of the Shade and l2p. Spellbreaker will impact WvW far more then Scourge dmg with there anti-boon bubble. This thread is made up by post from ppl that have no clue standing still in a Shade during Beta weekend.

yes the Scourge offense ouput is high, not so much ST but AoE for sure, however it lacks any defense… Barrier is NOTHING compared to Shroud, and it still lack all the tools every necro type lacks: Invun,Block,Reflect,Resist and now u expect us to negate ALL incomming dmg by just using barrier ? and u still want to nerf Scourge dmg cause u forgot to move out of the kitten Shade ?

The Shade does twice the dmg then the Actual Scourge does, maybe get a clue and bait him out ? After a few days to a week somewhat skilled players will figure that out plus the fact that Scourge cant mitigate ANY DMG AT ALL from range.

A good player will figure out counters, a bad cry-baby comes here and whines

ugrakarma.9416:

Hana.8143:

To explain a little bit more, we were 40 scourges (and probably 25 at the end of the event) We

Any classs stacking class zerg is a test driven error, is not an appropriate test. 40 guards zerg is over-powerful. 40 minions necros or rangers win by laggins the server with pet spam and so on.

An appropriate test would be with zergs stacking by groups formation, like classic 2xguards/necro/ele /rev VS to any zerg also with groups formed by some new elite specs.

OK, first off 2 Gaurds, necro, ele, rev is not classic. Heck, the rev wasn’t even introduced until HoT. The fifth slot is up for grabs really. But lets break this down as it is wehre we are now.

It has evolved that way mainly becuase we need 2 guards siince they ruined stability 2 years ago, made it better, then just ruined it again a few months ago by getting rid of all pulsing stability. So, we use 2 guards. it’s also useful for the sustain healing from dodgerolls, F2, might, protection, and cleansing, medium dps pressure.

The necro is the big dps dealer and it’s his main function. Whether power or condi, that’s what he’s there for. If condi, then also focuses more on boon corruption.

Rev. Main role is resistance. For some guilds, also high damage dealer

5th slot is guild choice depending on how the others are built. Popular choice is mesmer for boonshare/lots of group invunrability, veils, portals, etc. Another is a healer but not really necessary if guards are more supportive. Another popular choice is another dps, like necro, warrior for more CCs, or engi for more reflects, water, cleanses.

So, I think that covers most of the current meta. There might be a fringe here or there, but GENERALLY, I think that about covers things. Now that we see how things are broken down into roles, lets look at a scourge heavy group.

Guard: Could still use a guard for stability. That’s really it. Medium dps preassure? Nope, scourge has that covered. Protection or other defensive things? Nope, don’t need it. Condi cleanse? Scourge is doing that in spades. Barrier pretty much has everything defensive covered plus they do generate other defensive boons. Scourge puts out a lot of group might.

Rev: Resistance? Not necessary. There’s so much condi to boon conversion going on, you actually don’t want resistance. High dps? Who needs it when the enemy is already dead from the scourges.

Necro. Already got it.

5th slot:

Mesmer: Boonshare is always useful. Don’t need the invunerability, as we already have barrier for days, but being invunerable every 5 seconds is still great. But might use one or two for veils or a longer portal (lol, yeah, the scourge does portals too) than what the scourge does. So, mesmers will still be relevent.

Healer: Don’t need one. Already healing allies and barrier prevents most damage. Another necro? Hell yeah. Just make it all necros!!! Warrior. OK, this might be good to have a couple spellbreakers as there’s one skill that is OP, still good for might generation and CCs, but you don’t want too many as that will compete with the scourges boon corruption. Engi? Why when you could have another scourge?

………………………..

See what I mean? The scourge, as it is, makes all other classes pretty much irrelevant. My personal biggest concern is just the massive amount of boon corruption, that is both active and passive, will ruin things. Whoever gets hit first will win. That’s just dumb.

Actually, F1 is 2.5k barrier, F3 is 3k or so, F5 and heal are a 5k barrier with trailblazer, which means really high toughness and condition damage and lots of vitality(barrier depends on both vitality and healing power so not having healing power is no problem) not to say the necro hp is really high at first. (trailblazer stuff = 28k+ hp, 3.2k+ armor, 1.5k+ condition damage, and I say + because it was only exotic trailblazer, no ascended, with kittenty food (pizza yumyum) you can actually gain some stats here and there, which is not super crazy but still…)

It’s not a full healing power stoupid scourge, it’s a condition-scourge with armor, hp, and a lots of deadly condition

Torment is already part of F1, Burning comes from Soul reaping last trait in GM, dhuumfire which grants burning on first deathshroud skill, but with scourge, it’s on F1(since no deathshroud), so it’s just a joke considering the cd on F1 and the number of targets.

You guys really needs to read what i’m saying, massive scourge = perma barrier, you can pewpew if you want, you won’t even scratch em… stop trying to think of stoupid things geez.

Ravezaar.4951:

Move out of the Shade and l2p.

Barrier is NOTHING compared to Shroud, and it still lack all the tools every necro type lacks: Invun,Block,Reflect,Resist and now u expect us to negate ALL incomming dmg by just using barrier ? and u still want to nerf Scourge dmg cause u forgot to move out of the kitten Shade ?

That’s why you should read what I said before.

What can you do when 15 shades pop under you feet, removes every single boon you have, put 15 torments, 15 burning instantly, ? You move right, then a second shade pop under your feet, what you do ? you try to move right ? then a freaking 3rd shade pop under you feet, what do you do mate ? with almost no cd left ? YOU DIE, OFFC

Barrier is nothing ? Let me laugh and come back in 3hours, maybe I wouldn’t be laughing anymore. What do you not understand in : 14K. BARRIER. ALL. THE. TIME. ?
What do you not understand in : NO. CONDITION. CAUSE. CLEANSING. ALL. THE. TIME. ?
You have to massive bomb a 3.2k toughness + 28k hp in less than one second in order to MAYBE kill one of em, or else, the barrier goes up, and you wasted your cds. If it was easy mate, trust me I wouldn’t be there. It might be possible for raid guilds (but I doubt), but It won’t for the regular pugs (which are about 90% of wvw actually, since guilds are kancers <3). So should we let the scourge as it is ? Definitly not.

Barrier can’t be countered and you gain 3k / 5K barrier from yourself, and from people all the time, that’s why you’re wrong saying it not better than shroud. It’s definitly the strongest thing i’ve ever see in wvw and it’s not a 90sec cd aoe which removes boons that will compete with the scourge mechanic (and again, trust me, me old player, me following metagame, me part of a long gone #2 EU guild <3)

Spurnshadow.3678:

See what I mean? The scourge, as it is, makes all other classes pretty much irrelevant. My personal biggest concern is just the massive amount of boon corruption, that is both active and passive, will ruin things. Whoever gets hit first will win. That’s just dumb.

That’s exactly what I’m trying to say, Scourge is actually doing everything, it makes the other classes irrelevant. Do you need guard ? no you’re invulnerable cause barrier. So you don’t need stab.
Do you need power ? No, you have 25stacks everytime. So no need empower.
Do you need resistance ? No you have perma condition cleansing
Do you need regular necro or reaper ? Hell no, you’re a condition master with a lot of debuff, so no need spellbreaker either.
Do you need damage ? No, you’ve access to conditions that make your dps super great. So fack glassy warrior or staff ele (wait, staff ele is dead lol, nvm, better be tempest auramancer now)
Do you need healing ? Hell no, you don’t take damage, CYA tempest auramancer ele (qq)
Do we need 1500 range deadeye ? well actually that might be funny but hell no, it’s just a lost of barrier, who needs deadeye when you can get free barrier ?

that’s what i’m talking about. Scourge > All

Actually, F1 is 2.5k barrier, F3 is 3k or so, F5 and heal are a 5k barrier with trailblazer

This is factually incorrect. You may ahve an agruument but being this hyperbolic doesnt help your cause..at all.

Sigmoid.7082:

Actually, F1 is 2.5k barrier, F3 is 3k or so, F5 and heal are a 5k barrier with trailblazer

This is factually incorrect. You may ahve an agruument but being this hyperbolic doesnt help your cause..at all.

Well, if you don’t trust me then, go play a trailblazer scourge next time if they didn’t nerf it yet, you’ll see that i’m not joking. It’s almost that.

Why people are trying to counter what i’m saying while it’s clear they haven’t check anything from scourge ? It’s sad that you guys are trying to protect a class you didn’t even try with the exact same combo of stats.

Let’s see at what the wiki says for a naked scourge :

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Flare
Healing skill 4.2k barrier to 5 allies every 25 sec
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desert_Shroud
F5 skill 5k barrier for yourself every 20 sec
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Cascade
F3 skill 2.1k barrier for 5 allies every 8 sec
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Manifest_Sand_Shade
+
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desert_Empowerment
+
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Savant
F1 is a 1.4k barrier for 10 people every 10 sec (3 charges)

Well, It was a little higher in my memory, but holy cow, 4.1k on 5 person on heal ? 5k on yourself ? 1.4k for 10 people ? 2.1k on 5 people ? Looks like the number are crazy, as i said previously(sorry for not remembering the EXACT same number, at the exact digit, what a pityful human I am…)

Now let’s see,

10 scourges having access to F1 = 14k barrier every sec, three times, then little 10sec cd (just that, you’ve access to an amazing barrier)
add the heal for 5 people, add the F3 for 5 people
and you can just rotate like an idiot and everything will be @ full barrier

Don’t trust me ? Then quit the game, thank you <3

Jski.6180:

Spvp kind of broken like that there realty no def gear. As this is wvw talk not as big of a deal.

Regardless of it being spvp or wvw, my issue what that is players have the potential to hit that hard, basically 4-5x as much as a normal player would have. Why is there no cap for player damage? Are we really ok with them implementing skills that can hit harder than a players health pool?

It’s a bug, and deadeye is not the main thread here, you won’t see 100k damage with deadeye anymore, it’s not balanced.

@Hana u are so dead wrong on numbers its not even close to whats happening. Take the Vid link for ex. Those players are amking more mistakes in 30sec then I done in 5y playing the game. Barrier 14k constant vs who ? Are u playing with Gods vs complete kittens 24/7 then or what ? get a clue before posting on the Forums.

And u think the Scourge Boonstrip/convert is the issue why none has boons ? Maybe take a look at Spellbreaker and come here again. Players like you tires me out.

But dont worry cause Anet listen to your ppl crying hence why Nec always gets nerfed to unplayable lvls see no diffrence now.

Ravezaar.4951:

.
Nec always gets nerfed to unplayable lvls see no diffrence now. Do u know why u actually see Necs in WvW ? yea cause the class has so kitten dps output its useless if it cant hide among a Zerg.

There it is. Condi Reaper weak, needs buffs.

(sorry for not remembering the EXACT same number, at the exact digit, what a pityful human I am…)

Yes. It wasn’t exactly hard to look them up now was it? That’s something you do when you want to accurately prove a point instead of exaggerating. I played trailblazer scourge in WvW all weekend and i get some of your points but stuff like the exaggeration makes you hard for others to believe.

Come on Sigmoid, now you’re the one being stoupid mate, it wasn’t exaggeration (just little mistakes), look at the number
1.4k 2.1k 4.1k 5k. the real numbers
2.5k 3k 5k 5k. my numbers

I don’t see a huge difference
I see a total of 12.6k barrier with real numbers
15.5k with my numbers
it’s 2.9k barrier, but when you have 12.6k barrier with 5 to 25 sec cd, this is where it starts to be crazy.

12.6k barrier with no healing power is strong. You may have something stuck in your eyes so you don’t see it correctly.

Does it looks weak to you ?
In which way going from 15.5k to 12.6k barrier is better for you ?
Maybe it’s just a way to try to get an argument (since i’m only fighting people who just want to, once again, protect the scourge, which is going to actually destroy wvw… )

Also Scourge has… no problem with cd ? (25sec, come on, it’s nothing, it’s not like 60 or 90 is it ?)

Here is where things become funny.

Can we actually talk about real number in terms of target ?
F1 -> 14k barrier (1.4*10)
F3 -> 10.5k barrier (2.1*5)
F5 -> 5k barrier
Heal -> 20.5k barrier (4.1*5)

It’s 50k barrier in total for you and allies, now if you want me to do some math, i’ll do it for ya.
4 buttons = 50k barrier from a single scourge.
What if 10 scourges press the same 4 buttons ?

Wow mathematics are really hard nowaday.

IN.WHICH.WAY.IT’S.LEGIT ?

Tell me now, i’m listening. Really.

Oh and please, don’t say something like “uh but wi don uze hil everi teime so zats a laut less of barierr” I’m tired of this. I’ll gladly use my heal for nothing if it can prevent my team and me to receive damages. Plus, you just have to add more and more scourges so you don’t even have to worry about any damage / condition / cleansing / debuff.

Some people think we played badly the scourge, well if we did, i don’t want to imagine better people playing it. But the fact is it’s strong, and with this video, even if we were bad (cause noone likes us qq) we actually prooved that scourge is too much. But if it’s not nerf, it’s ok, we’ll just do another event like that (it’s actually funny to one push everything xD)

XenesisII.1540:

Jski.6180:

Spvp kind of broken like that there realty no def gear. As this is wvw talk not as big of a deal.

Regardless of it being spvp or wvw, my issue what that is players have the potential to hit that hard, basically 4-5x as much as a normal player would have. Why is there no cap for player damage? Are we really ok with them implementing skills that can hit harder than a players health pool?

Called block and reflection. The dead eye more likely to kill them self.

Heeeey, jski is on to something there.
Scourge gets to stay as-is, all other classes get an easy counter to it.

LetoII.3782:

Heeeey, jski is on to something there.
Scourge gets to stay as-is, all other classes get an easy counter to it.

Counter to condi in gw2 that complete nonsense your speaking. Even clears a group of skill made only to deal with condis and condis alone cant even be called real counters because the condis in them self counter them though throwaway spamable condis.

So this is a topic about an unrealistic situation (40 scourges, really ? Pit them against 40 of the same class, at least. Why not 40 Deadeye, just to see how many second they stays alive ?), with an edited video as “proof” (so worth absolutely nothing since it’s edited) and that’s not counting the fact that it was done during the demo where plenty of bugs weren’t fixed and people were learning their new spec’…
Is this really the reason a nerf is called ? You seriously think the devs will fall for that ?
That’s the most obvious troll I’ve ever seen.

The problem is : All the people in front weren’t playing the new specs, but they still died pretty quickly, I don’t agree with you when it comes to a 40 vs 40 against deadeyes, it’s out of context, and once again, what makes you think a perma barrier can be countered ? Deadeye hits like a truck but a perma 14k barrier + 28k hp + 3.2k toughness is not something you can deal with a full glass deadeye my friend. As I said, it’s about large scale battle, if you just think about a 1v1 40 times, you’re totally wrong, cause the exact same scourge you can counter with a single deadeye has also 39 other friends who do the same as him, supporting themselves all the time, applying barrier barrier barrier corrup condi burst and it’s the end.

Where some builds work in pvp, it’s bad in wvw, just because numbers. So why are you guys even talking about 40 v 40 ? It doesn’t make sense… When I say that you can litteraly have perma barrier and take no damage (Even 4 acs hit 50 people and does around 2k damage each, which is 8k per second on 50people, we stayed under for 45min…) do you think 40 deadeyes can have more than 8k dps on every single target ? i don’t think so. You’ll have one or two big hits, but that’s not enough, and you can’t be sure that, between those two hits, the scourge didn’t get barrier. We’re not in pve, wanna one shot 2 or 3 scourges by hard focusing them ? Fell free, just need to press f f f since you have no bomb pressure (once again it’s all thanks to the large scale) but you also have to worry about yourselves, and even if the deadeye has great mobility, by running away you might just end up giving time for the scourges to rez / apply even more pressure to your partners. 1500 range is great, but you’re also not moving while you want to dps, so the 1500 range can become 900 pretty quickly, which is the range for the scourge.

I don’t even know why I’m trying to debate about that… Since duel and wvw are so differents.

Simply : countering 1 scourge, and countering 40 scourges is not the same thing.

Jski.6180:

XenesisII.1540:

Jski.6180:

Spvp kind of broken like that there realty no def gear. As this is wvw talk not as big of a deal.

Regardless of it being spvp or wvw, my issue what that is players have the potential to hit that hard, basically 4-5x as much as a normal player would have. Why is there no cap for player damage? Are we really ok with them implementing skills that can hit harder than a players health pool?

Called block and reflection. The dead eye more likely to kill them self.

Yeah every class has access to block and reflection…. …

The fact that people want to turn this game even more into a first person shooter makes me laugh, how low combat has come in this game.

Kaladel.1670:

So this is a topic about an unrealistic situation (40 scourges, really ? Pit them against 40 of the same class, at least. Why not 40 Deadeye, just to see how many second they stays alive ?), with an edited video as “proof” (so worth absolutely nothing since it’s edited) and that’s not counting the fact that it was done during the demo where plenty of bugs weren’t fixed and people were learning their new spec’…
Is this really the reason a nerf is called ? You seriously think the devs will fall for that ?
That’s the most obvious troll I’ve ever seen.

YES! because its wvw. If scourge ships as is that is what wvw will become all the time.
The thing is this is more then just the 40 man groups its the small groups now can remove all condis on there team and all boons on the other team and heal and keep a high shield up and keep a good set of boons on it self and do high condi dmg. One class should not be able to do all of that its just too much and will push all other classes out of viability in all formats of game play but the super small raids where they will be worthless for the most part and fool the devs. into buffing them all the more.

You will only need one firebrand, one spellcaster, rest scourge to form a basic 5, and then 50 full blob to go around destroying people. Firebrand just to be multiple small stab machine, spellcaster for op elite dome, 10 spellcasters sure can cover a big area. Scourge just doing their nonsense and everyone rip. No need ele, the new ele spec is not special enough for wvw i think. Condi rev is great now but scourge is a massive tune up in boonstripping which is greater than the condi rev and the new spec for rev is not special too. Scourge can cast barrier, strip, do dmg. Dafaq we need ele and rev for anyway?!

Spurnshadow.3678:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Hana.8143:

It’s like the mesmer in 2013 (or 2014 ?), when he had that trait, and took fall damages, and did 20k every sec with the aoe that pop under its feet.

I’m sorry, what?

Chaos storm has never done 20k damage a second.

It was a bug and lasted like 2 weeks. Fun as hell while it lasted. Only affected Chaos Storm from the falling trait.

That lasted for 2 weeks??

Holy crap, I really must be on a different wave length from the developers of this game.

That would’ve received an immediate response of disabling the chaos storm part of the trait from me. Wow….

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Spurnshadow.3678:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Hana.8143:

It’s like the mesmer in 2013 (or 2014 ?), when he had that trait, and took fall damages, and did 20k every sec with the aoe that pop under its feet.

I’m sorry, what?

Chaos storm has never done 20k damage a second.

It was a bug and lasted like 2 weeks. Fun as hell while it lasted. Only affected Chaos Storm from the falling trait.

That lasted for 2 weeks??

Holy crap, I really must be on a different wave length from the developers of this game.

That would’ve received an immediate response of disabling the chaos storm part of the trait from me. Wow….

Here’s a video of a 1 Warrior, 4 Mesmer team clearing Lupicus in about 5 seconds with the bug.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf_L16XMl3Y

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Spurnshadow.3678:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Hana.8143:

It’s like the mesmer in 2013 (or 2014 ?), when he had that trait, and took fall damages, and did 20k every sec with the aoe that pop under its feet.

I’m sorry, what?

Chaos storm has never done 20k damage a second.

It was a bug and lasted like 2 weeks. Fun as hell while it lasted. Only affected Chaos Storm from the falling trait.

That lasted for 2 weeks??

Holy crap, I really must be on a different wave length from the developers of this game.

That would’ve received an immediate response of disabling the chaos storm part of the trait from me. Wow….

I seem to recall it was fixed in a matter of hours (patch came out in the late evening EU time, by the next morning it was sadly fixed so we didnt get experience the fun.

Might be remembering some other bug though

Dawdler.8521:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Spurnshadow.3678:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Hana.8143:

It’s like the mesmer in 2013 (or 2014 ?), when he had that trait, and took fall damages, and did 20k every sec with the aoe that pop under its feet.

I’m sorry, what?

Chaos storm has never done 20k damage a second.

It was a bug and lasted like 2 weeks. Fun as hell while it lasted. Only affected Chaos Storm from the falling trait.

That lasted for 2 weeks??

Holy crap, I really must be on a different wave length from the developers of this game.

That would’ve received an immediate response of disabling the chaos storm part of the trait from me. Wow….

I seem to recall it was fixed in a matter of hours (patch came out in the late evening EU time, by the next morning it was sadly fixed so we didnt get experience the fun.

Might be remembering some other bug though

If so, that’s good. Weeks for a bug that bad would be pretty absurd.

Hey Hana, could you guys organise another scourge run when PoF comes out, if you don’t mind (and record of course)?

You have not proven anything. Just showed us how organized you guys are.
I can do better with a bunch of catapults, ACs or cannons againts you.

So… let me put a spellbreakers blob againt you guys and then we think about that.

Please Anet dont nerf the scourge.

Pirate ship here we come again!

Avast ye salty dogs and stuff. Wash the mainsails and dragoon the… portside? Is “portside” a thing? I dunno.

Anyway, Melee is suicide in any way shape or form. Bring back portable cannons I say!

Trajan.4953:

Pirate ship here we come again!

Avast ye salty dogs and stuff. Wash the mainsails and dragoon the… portside? Is “portside” a thing? I dunno.

Anyway, Melee is suicide in any way shape or form. Bring back portable cannons I say!

More bunker then pirate ship (i still do not see how pirate ship works as a name but i think i lost that fight some time ago) you need to move in the spaces you crate with the scourge. Its going to be a game of venn diagrams getting the best use of the souls. So lots of stops and goes no real push. I image it would be like space fight with out the 3d.

All though we may see a rize to minm pts groups. Set builds and classes who do not use boons at all. You cant crouped what they do not have.

2 firebrand, 2 scourge and either another scourge or optional Utility. Lots of stab, barrier, corrupts and range while also not being easily pushed on.

We can call it the SFU meta, shame there’s no class beginning with a T….

LOL the Scourge isn’t even out yet and you want it nerfed.

Post launch you wont see 40 Scourge’s you wouldn’t see 40 of any class, its just not viable for WvW, unless you are running around killing pug groups with no leadership, or K-Training, any organised group would run over you.

Ok I Did It.2854:

LOL the Scourge isn’t even out yet and you want it nerfed.

Post launch you wont see 40 Scourge’s you wouldn’t see 40 of any class, its just not viable for WvW, unless you are running around killing pug groups with no leadership, or K-Training, any organised group would run over you.

Just compare it to what in the game now. Mez is the end all be all anty boon though riping them off not converting them into condis. Scourge has much better version of this then mez could ever dream of. At the same time the scourge effectly steals these boons something that was know for mez. Scourge also convits condis on there team mates to boon and clears condis on barror application. They are doing this all from melee to 1,500 ranged even more then what a ranger can do.

Look scourge dose every thing you want from a class in pvp its going to be weaker in pve and raids but in pvp its the only class you need.

What keeps the necro class balanced is lack of serviabitly when in death shoud. So you cant be healed by other players during this new set of skills and effects but scourge not having a death shoud hp is more of a buff to the class then a disadvantages as it can heal it self and get healing from others players and still has the ability to use its 1-5 skills from its death shoud. Its like you gave necro 5 more skills for free.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scourge

Look at all the effects it has that comply blow every other counter boon effect in the game out of the water. Even spell beaker (the ideal end all be all counter to mages) looks like a joke compaid to this .

Abrasive Gift is a Adept level and its stronger then the GM Cleansing Water on ele.

DemonSeed.3528:

Hey Hana, could you guys organise another scourge run when PoF comes out, if you don’t mind (and record of course)?

Well, if it’s not nerfed, we won’t have to make any scourge run, we’ll just post the build and you guys will see by yourselves. But if we plan on doing a scourge zerg, ofc it’ll be recorded and uploaded. Never give up guys !

If it’s already nerfed, then it’s gg.

I played DE a lot during the demo, and it would be really interesting to see a 40vs40 DE vs. Scourge. You’d have to get stability somehow b/c the DE utility Binding Shadow knocks down their marked target. I’d assume all 40 deadeyes would mark all 40 scourges, so if you don’t move out of range or LoS you’ll be constantly marked giving the DE all the benefits they get from marked targets (take less dmg from them, knocking down instead of immobilizing, etc.). Plus, it would be an interesting back and forth b/c it seems many, many DE skills do the exact same thing as scourges – turn boons into conditions and vice versa (see Cursed Bullet and Skirmisher’s Shot).

Soo…that’d be one great fight :P DE @ 1500 range with 40 marked scourges — I’m pretty sure keeping 8k dps on each marked target would be quite easy, with bursts of about 28k every 15-20 secs with Deaths Judgement and constant might with 3 round burst, which can easily top 8k. At least, that’s if I’m remembering how my Deadeye in even mediocre and non-optimized gear played in WvW.

Kaggura.4839:

I played DE a lot during the demo, and it would be really interesting to see a 40vs40 DE vs. Scourge. You’d have to get stability somehow b/c the DE utility Binding Shadow knocks down their marked target. I’d assume all 40 deadeyes would mark all 40 scourges, so if you don’t move out of range or LoS you’ll be constantly marked giving the DE all the benefits they get from marked targets (take less dmg from them, knocking down instead of immobilizing, etc.). Plus, it would be an interesting back and forth b/c it seems many, many DE skills do the exact same thing as scourges – turn boons into conditions and vice versa (see Cursed Bullet and Skirmisher’s Shot).

Soo…that’d be one great fight :P DE @ 1500 range with 40 marked scourges — I’m pretty sure keeping 8k dps on each marked target would be quite easy, with bursts of about 28k every 15-20 secs with Deaths Judgement and constant might with 3 round burst, which can easily top 8k. At least, that’s if I’m remembering how my Deadeye in even mediocre and non-optimized gear played in WvW.

i assure you deadeye will be useless with their rifles in WvW for the same reason engineer is performing worst in WvW even though they have 1500 range mortars

Projectile hate: anti projectile fields,bubbles, reflect fields,bubbles, shields,blocks

all of these things necromancers ignore with wells and marks and so will the new scourge versions

so even in this perfect deadeye vs scourge scenario you mention deadeye loses because of the conditions being slapped from 1200 range alone and the fact that necromancers do have an anti projectile field or two as well

Hana.8143:

If it’s already nerfed, then it’s gg.

^^ Said the Ele main. Which is the whole purpose of his crusade here.

I see heaps of fights exactly like this in T1 WvW where 1 big blob smashes another big blob and completely wipes it.

How do you know it isn’t just player discipline?

How do you know this due to the Scourge?

How do you know this isn’t due to the enemy commander being a complete scrub?

Most pathetic thread about scared players that cry for nerf rather then look for a counter, and the Elite isnt even out yet, lmao

Kaggura.4839:

I played DE a lot during the demo, and it would be really interesting to see a 40vs40 DE vs. Scourge. You’d have to get stability somehow b/c the DE utility Binding Shadow knocks down their marked target. I’d assume all 40 deadeyes would mark all 40 scourges, so if you don’t move out of range or LoS you’ll be constantly marked giving the DE all the benefits they get from marked targets (take less dmg from them, knocking down instead of immobilizing, etc.). Plus, it would be an interesting back and forth b/c it seems many, many DE skills do the exact same thing as scourges – turn boons into conditions and vice versa (see Cursed Bullet and Skirmisher’s Shot).

Soo…that’d be one great fight :P DE @ 1500 range with 40 marked scourges — I’m pretty sure keeping 8k dps on each marked target would be quite easy, with bursts of about 28k every 15-20 secs with Deaths Judgement and constant might with 3 round burst, which can easily top 8k. At least, that’s if I’m remembering how my Deadeye in even mediocre and non-optimized gear played in WvW.

Deadeye is strong and great, but I don’t feel complaining about it since it’s just a regular thief getting access to 1500 range skills. It has great mobility, but this doesn’t mean it’s invulnerable. It doesn’t have a way to counter a bomb, and so can’t survive if it’s caught. I’ve seen multiple good people playing deadeye, but they killed people and died here and there. It’s GW2 routine.

Scourge, as I said multiple times, as access to some crazy barrier which has no real counter. If, for countering the barrier, you need to play as a big fat focus party 24/7, the wvw will be pointless (since it’s large scale fights and not about who can call a spike on a single target, i don’t think arenanet designed WvW to be a place where things like focus lead is a thing for example) Pushing a zerg when it’s the right time, calling a bomb which can deal effective damages, everything will be irrelevant since the barrier is here and always up (as I said 50k barrier with 4 skills on a single scourge, on you or allies, 10 scourges will be 500k barrier. With a proper rotation, who can actually die with that much barrier ? An 10 scourges is not even hard to gather.)

To put it clear, if we were dumb enough to not use the 5sec cd when it’s up and spam our 4 skills at the exact same time every 25sec, 40 scourges has about 2M barrier… and it’s for naked scourges without healing power, every 25 seconds, and this number is not even the real one since i’m not counting us spamming the 5sec cd skills everytime it’s up nor i’m counting the actual right way to play scourge : keeping the barrier for the good moment when not at full barrier cause damage income. i’m just trying to show you how big this number is, and since barrier needs to be refresh, you have access to a lot of barrier to do so.

A full trailblazer scourge (during the demo) had 28k hp (cause celestial exotics infusions on trinkets) it’s about 14k barrier.
so 40 scourges needs only 560k barrier, it’s close to a quarter of the actual barrier you can have by pressing only 4 buttons. That means you have too much barrier for 40 people (1.440M barrier which can be used for refreshing barrier and/or putting the barrier back cause you took some damages)

If it was only about fights, I would have question myself “Is it really the scourge ?”
But since a light armor class can survive 45min in a T3 keep…

So if surviving under 4 ACs (sup ofc) + people pewpewing on walls, is something you can’t really do with bad people playing a spec for the first time. By doing that with JS, we might have prooved that scourge is really strong ?

It’s not only cause we killed everyone during fights, it’s also cause whatever we were doing, we didn’t die. Under sieges, during fights, in mortar aoe (lol 0 burning stack, so easy, mortar needs to be up) always 14k barrier.

Here is the second video you can find on page 1 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVgxqj_-ihU&=&feature=youtu.be

We had few scourges in the squad, and as you can see, pushed or not, with or without sieges on us, we were fine, even if we didn’t move at all (turtle ? really ?)
And it’s just few scourges, double that number and it’ll be even easier. Take only scourge, and it’s a no damage squad. It’s as simple as that.

Ravezaar.4951:

Most pathetic thread about scared players that cry for nerf rather then look for a counter, and the Elite isnt even out yet, lmao

Thanks for being nice with me and having such an impact on the thread with your arguments, we tried scourges during the demo, so even if it’s not out yet, we’ve seen enough.

I also appreciate when people call the counter strategy without even thinking of it themselves. Let me explain why there is no such a strategy with the barrier.

When barrier can only be removed by dps / condi, that make this thing stronger than you think. Scourge has no condi cause traits and has a full toughness / vitality stuff packed with a perma barrier. You can try to dps a full scourge zerg, but they’ll use 1/4 of the barrier to be @ full barrier, and keep 3/4 for refresh and putting back the barrier. Can you do enough damag within 25sec in order to kill them all ? uhhh, don’t think so.

You might want to lay here by my side and cry with me, don’t you ?

Also, as I said multiple multiple times, i’m just asking for a rescale of the targets, so that won’t impact your sweet scourge which is not strong enough qqqq. But that sure will prevent WvW and PvP to die from it (cause let’s be honest, we don’t care about PvE)

We learn nothing about Scourge in this video.

In the first “fight”, the enemy are;

1. in a choke
2. smaller than you
3. disorganised, with many not on tag
4. make a poor decision to glide nearby
5. only half of the enemy do so
6. the ones who glided are wiped first and then the other half of the enemies

In the second fight;

1. You steamroll a small group with a larger one. Nothing to see here.

In the third fight;

1. same as second fight

In the fourth fight;

1. The enemy begin in a good tight ball
2. but it goes wrong straight away when they are pushed
3. people run in all directions
4. wipefest

I stopped watching here.

You are simply bigger and better organised than your awful opponents. You would have won these fights with a normal zerg.

Svarty.8019:

We learn nothing about Scourge in this video.

In the first “fight”, the enemy are;

1. in a choke
2. smaller than you
3. disorganised, with many not on tag
4. make a poor decision to glide nearby
5. only half of the enemy do so
6. the ones who glided are wiped first and then the other half of the enemies

In the second fight;

1. You steamroll a small group with a larger one. Nothing to see here.

In the third fight;

1. same as second fight

In the fourth fight;

1. The enemy begin in a good tight ball
2. but it goes wrong straight away when they are pushed
3. people run in all directions
4. wipefest

I stopped watching here.

You are simply bigger and better organised than your awful opponents. You would have won these fights with a normal zerg.

Exactly, but they just dont wanna see that

Svarty.8019:

We learn nothing about Scourge in this video.

In the first “fight”, the enemy are;

1. in a choke
2. smaller than you
3. disorganised, with many not on tag
4. make a poor decision to glide nearby
5. only half of the enemy do so
6. the ones who glided are wiped first and then the other half of the enemies

In the second fight;

1. You steamroll a small group with a larger one. Nothing to see here.

In the third fight;

1. same as second fight

In the fourth fight;

1. The enemy begin in a good tight ball
2. but it goes wrong straight away when they are pushed
3. people run in all directions
4. wipefest

I stopped watching here.

You are simply bigger and better organised than your awful opponents. You would have won these fights with a normal zerg.

Let’s say it’s that, how can we survive 45min under 4 sup acs with all the guys pewpewing at us in a t3 garrison ?

Can you look at the video just above, and tell me what’s wrong (and please, don’t tell me something like “its obvius zey suk, zats wy zey dai”)
Can you explain to me why, with few scourges, we’re able to survive under a sup ac, a sup balista, and all the aoe from 50+ people.

Cause if you can’t i’ll just tell you “Cause barrier mate. Look the squad life”

If you’re not done, just know that I was in the zerg during the second video, and was playing a full zerker weaver, did I die ? Well hell no mate. I didn’t, even with a 50 target sup ac and a sup balista on us. (It takes about 3 hits on a 11k hp zerker elementalist from a sup ac to kill the ele. But I manage to survive, just like that (not cause zerker ele is super tough, just cause barrier.)

Also, can we be serious just a second, it can’t always be because of the enemies. The scourge video was on sunday, and the other one was the day before. Also if they’re bad or not doesn’t mean anything when we’re talking about perma barrier most of the time. This doesn’t depend of the enemies, that’s something scourges do by themselves, even if you call a big fat bomb. They might be bad (which I doubt, but let’s say they are) but that doesn’t help you since scourge still has access to crazy amount of barrier and crazy amout of debuff / cleansing / conditions you can’t even counter with your actual cds.

Also, since barrier can be applied a lot and can’t be removed, that’s just the definition of “Something strong”.

You can complain all you want and say i’m dumb, but that’s a fact, scourge is power. And by just saying “You’re talking nonsense”, you’re not prooving anything nor you’re countering what I said.