Scourge's Power, Devs need to see that

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

I’ve been in a lot of situations where the disorganized zerg, even with siege, made no noticeable impact on the organized one. It happens literally every day.

So, no, these videos show nothing other than organization trumps disorganization.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: Bigpapasmurf.5623

Bigpapasmurf.5623

2 firebrand, 2 scourge and either another scourge or optional Utility. Lots of stab, barrier, corrupts and range while also not being easily pushed on.

We can call it the SFU meta, shame there’s no class beginning with a T….

ooh oohh i know this….TEMPEST

Do I win?

- Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/MC_Celestia
- I am currently a main thief roamer for SF in WvW. LOVE ME!
- {SOAP} Solo/Havoc roamer, lover of good fights

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Posted by: Spurnshadow.3678

Spurnshadow.3678

Some of you guys just want to put your heads in the sand. This isn’t about the video. The video is just theory put into motion. Is it the perfect form of proof? No, but it’s kitten good and much better than people like me saying the scourge will ruin WvW cause of x,y, and z.

Before any of these videos were made, however, people like me DID say scourge will ruin WvW because of x,y, and z. It’s so obvious to many of us. Why do some of you say this is healthy for WvW? Why do some of you defend the class as is or near to it?

WvW, like any game mode in any MMO will gravitate towards the highest dps with the best survivablility. This one class supplemented by a guard, will do that. No other class is necessary. I truly think that many of you haven’t been playing this game since launch and don’t know some of the completely dumb things Anet has done over the years. This will be one of them.

Blackgate Native. It takes tremendous strength and skill to pull a lever.

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Posted by: Artaz.3819

Artaz.3819

Oh how theorycrafting can be fun…

Tome of Justice spam (start with 5, then just face roll) + Renewed Justice (gives perma use when targets die) + Legendary Lore (more burn stacks). Then
sprinkle in Amplified Wrath + Wrath of Justice (1200 range immobilize too good) + the lovely GM trait combo of Loremaster + Permeating Wrath (for passive AoE burn) and always pumping out AoE perma-Quickness boon and equip mantras for insta AoE condi cleanse and elite AoE stun break/stab of course and don’t forget the beauty of Purging Flames in this spec…wow! I dare not mention the Aegis spam share version (real invincibility).

Ooo the fun. Let’s see if I can find another premade coordinated 40-man version that will annihilate in AoE at range against any PUG zerg.

(edited by Artaz.3819)

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Posted by: LetoII.3782

LetoII.3782

Oh how theorycrafting can be fun…

Tome of Justice spam (start with 5, then just face roll) + Renewed Justice (gives perma use when targets die) + Legendary Lore (more burn stacks). Then
sprinkle in Amplified Wrath + Wrath of Justice (1200 range immobilize too good) + the lovely GM trait combo of Loremaster + Permeating Wrath (for passive AoE burn) and always pumping out AoE perma-Quickness boon and equip mantras for insta AoE condi cleanse and elite AoE stun break/stab of course and don’t forget the beauty of Purging Flames in this spec…wow! I dare not mention the Aegis spam share version (real invincibility).

Ooo the fun. Let’s see if I can find another premade coordinated 40-man version that will annihilate in AoE at range against any PUG zerg.

A poor analogy, the Firebrand group would never get into melee range, Not to mention no cross-reinforcing barrier at all there…..

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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

It is a return of pirateship meta, the boonstrip is real, is not joking! Your stab won’t even last!

Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
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Posted by: Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

scourge is power. And by just saying “You’re talking nonsense”, you’re not prooving anything nor you’re countering what I said.

You just said, “Scourge is power”, and provided a video that doesn’t show this to be the case.

I’m not arguing for or against the Scourge, but your argument requires stronger evidence.

Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.

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Posted by: Solori.6025

Solori.6025

This is the most troubling thing to me when I hear this. This attitude is what’s wrong with gaming and the world. If you condone this mentality, then there will be very few, if any, quality players left in the game. We already lost a lot of good, quality guilds with HoT because they didn’t have it anywhere close to right upon release and it took months for them to fix. I think so many of us are super concerned because we don’t want to see another mass exodus.

.

I predict this is hyperbole, I predict people will see new things, cry about them, a-net will nerf a lot of classes to be unusable, then we will be right back were we started.

A change in the meta scares people, and in this game like others, peoples first reaction is to cry about it, and create (OR showcase as the OP has done) unrealistic scenarios where what you want changed is at it’s peak performance, un-countered and unchallenged. Then you take that scenario and promote it as a common occurrence. Even though people tell you what you can do to counter or stop said build and scenario, you will continue to ignore them until your goal of getting class A,B,C nerfed.

Then your class will be on the chopping block, and you will come to it’s defense and naysay everyone, those people will do the same thing you did, present a scenario where your class performs unrealistically until it’s nerfed. The cycle will then continue.
What I would love to see, is actual substance to a “please nerf” post, not showcasing disorganized fights, or one sided matches. Post an organized fight, with you fighting a group or guild of organized people. Post what you had trouble with and explain why that build or group wont be common to encounter.
Not the showcase.

@OP
What I saw in your vid was an organized Zerg, much bigger than a lot of others steamrolling everyone.
At that point I immediately lost interest, because it showed nothing but numbers carrying you through victory every time.
What you managed to highlight is a long standing problem that WvW has had.

-Conditions.
Condition application and the ability to spread conditions with little to no risk is a problem in WvW and makes the entire gamemode pretty dependent on having a Resistance bot or dedicated Cleanses, without them, your zerg melts to necro epidemics and burn guard trains. This isnt healthy, and needs to be addressed.

-Crowd Control
We are going to be entering a boonhate meta.
Too many classes are getting ways to deny or strip boons. This means that CC’s from ele’s, gaurds, warrior, engi, necro, mesmer, ranger, rev, and thieves is going to become a lot more problematic to the point where running into anything is going to result in a wipe.
This means more zergs circling around each other using range and not actually committing into a fight.
That is boring.

They have more fundamental issues they need to fix.
Your video does more about those issues than necro.

TLDR;
You want to crusade against scourge, make a video fighting an organized guild, run your full scourge group vs theirs, then make a group with 2/3 scourges and explain why you had success fighting the organized groups ( you may want to contact your resident fight guilds because fighting a group of no names wont do you any favors).
Showcase montage vids don’t help you, and honestly do nothing but flag you as a clickbaiter to get views

Edit:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Path-of-Fire-Stress-Test-September-7
Looks like you can do this thursday and make a vid


The world needs more KUNG FURY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS5P_LAqiVg

(edited by Solori.6025)

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Posted by: Spurnshadow.3678

Spurnshadow.3678

Oh how theorycrafting can be fun…

Tome of Justice spam (start with 5, then just face roll) + Renewed Justice (gives perma use when targets die) + Legendary Lore (more burn stacks). Then
sprinkle in Amplified Wrath + Wrath of Justice (1200 range immobilize too good) + the lovely GM trait combo of Loremaster + Permeating Wrath (for passive AoE burn) and always pumping out AoE perma-Quickness boon and equip mantras for insta AoE condi cleanse and elite AoE stun break/stab of course and don’t forget the beauty of Purging Flames in this spec…wow! I dare not mention the Aegis spam share version (real invincibility).

Ooo the fun. Let’s see if I can find another premade coordinated 40-man version that will annihilate in AoE at range against any PUG zerg.

Common man. A rev in every party would shut this down. Most condi centric groups do very little damage as is due to Rev’s spamming resistance and mesmers duplicating it. ONly a very well co-ordinated necro boonstrip group shuts down the rev/mesmer combo. Why? to get rid of resistance.

Stop being so hyperbolic and use well though out arguments to justify your position that scourges are ok as is.

Blackgate Native. It takes tremendous strength and skill to pull a lever.

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Posted by: Spurnshadow.3678

Spurnshadow.3678

It is a return of pirateship meta, the boonstrip is real, is not joking! Your stab won’t even last!

K, I’ve seen a lot of responses like this. I don’t know where it’s coming from. This mentality didn’t play beta weekend, didn’t watch the mutiple videos of a scourge heavy gorup, and haven’t looked at the spec.

A scourge group want’s to be in melee range. The shades benefit allies and hurt enemies.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Oh how theorycrafting can be fun…

Tome of Justice spam (start with 5, then just face roll) + Renewed Justice (gives perma use when targets die) + Legendary Lore (more burn stacks). Then
sprinkle in Amplified Wrath + Wrath of Justice (1200 range immobilize too good) + the lovely GM trait combo of Loremaster + Permeating Wrath (for passive AoE burn) and always pumping out AoE perma-Quickness boon and equip mantras for insta AoE condi cleanse and elite AoE stun break/stab of course and don’t forget the beauty of Purging Flames in this spec…wow! I dare not mention the Aegis spam share version (real invincibility).

Ooo the fun. Let’s see if I can find another premade coordinated 40-man version that will annihilate in AoE at range against any PUG zerg.

Common man. A rev in every party would shut this down. Most condi centric groups do very little damage as is due to Rev’s spamming resistance and mesmers duplicating it. ONly a very well co-ordinated necro boonstrip group shuts down the rev/mesmer combo. Why? to get rid of resistance.

Stop being so hyperbolic and use well though out arguments to justify your position that scourges are ok as is.

That the problem necro is about to become the end all be all condi class as well as boon stripper the main counter to this game play. On top of that they are going to be the end all be all anty condi class as well. Necro is going to be able to play so many rolls all contain into one class that your going to see an real “necrofcation” of class in wvw.

The worst part of it is having boon strip get in the way of the necor best game play. If you have a mez with boon strip your waiting boons on the other team that will become condis. In a lot of ways for the best game play you want as many scourges in your group as you can all other class with boon strip and condi clear (condi on your team become boons with a scourge on your side) are getting in the way of optimization of your group in wvw.

How is this “balanced” when you have one class who effects makes the other team action on your team positivist and the action on them self bad? When you have a class that clashes with other classes other then the other classes simply being body that put out dmg or simply get condis to feed the scourge.

Scourge is going to be THE toxic class for wvw but this time its not going to be a roaming toxic but zerg toxic.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Sylvyn.4750

Sylvyn.4750

It is a return of pirateship meta, the boonstrip is real, is not joking! Your stab won’t even last!

K, I’ve seen a lot of responses like this. I don’t know where it’s coming from. This mentality didn’t play beta weekend, didn’t watch the mutiple videos of a scourge heavy gorup, and haven’t looked at the spec.

A scourge group want’s to be in melee range. The shades benefit allies and hurt enemies.

It might be a back-and-forth feeling out of which group has the most scourges, and the group that figures out they do not have enough will stay at range. Might see groups that know they don’t have a scourge turn tail and run. We’ll see…fun to speculate but we won’t really know until it has been out long enough for strategies to fully develop and how the synergy of new elites will work in WvW.

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Posted by: Spurnshadow.3678

Spurnshadow.3678

This is the most troubling thing to me when I hear this. This attitude is what’s wrong with gaming and the world. If you condone this mentality, then there will be very few, if any, quality players left in the game. We already lost a lot of good, quality guilds with HoT because they didn’t have it anywhere close to right upon release and it took months for them to fix. I think so many of us are super concerned because we don’t want to see another mass exodus.

.

I predict this is hyperbole, I predict people will see new things, cry about them, a-net will nerf a lot of classes to be unusable, then we will be right back were we started.

A change in the meta scares people, and in this game like others, peoples first reaction is to cry about it, and create (OR showcase as the OP has done) unrealistic scenarios where what you want changed is at it’s peak performance, un-countered and unchallenged. Then you take that scenario and promote it as a common occurrence. Even though people tell you what you can do to counter or stop said build and scenario, you will continue to ignore them until your goal of getting class A,B,C nerfed.

Then your class will be on the chopping block, and you will come to it’s defense and naysay everyone, those people will do the same thing you did, present a scenario where your class performs unrealistically until it’s nerfed. The cycle will then continue.
What I would love to see, is actual substance to a “please nerf” post, not showcasing disorganized fights, or one sided matches. Post an organized fight, with you fighting a group or guild of organized people. Post what you had trouble with and explain why that build or group wont be common to encounter.
Not the showcase.

What I’m talking about, and others, isn’t hyperbole because it actually happened, and not long ago, so it’s still fresh in our memories. Hyperbole is taking an exaggerated, singular stance on a subject that is ignoring a lot of nuance or gray area of the topic. I’m not doing that. It is a fact that we lost a lot of guilds and good players when HoT came out. Some people who got bored with the game came back to try it and left. We warned Anet about all the issues that were bad, like with DBL, but they ignored us.

IMO, WvW has never recovered from this. The higher quality guilds and players made the bar of excellence lower.

PoF idn’t releasing a new map, but PoF does have a class that a lot of people are considering totally OP. HoT didn’t have that. Yeah, a lot of the classes had some over the top damage, like the rev hammer auto, CoR, a couple other things here and there, but it was consistently across the board, and usually had an attack having a lot of damage. It was manageable. But, I’m sorry, when one class is able to convert boons with almost every single skill, and passively do so, and adding barrier to it, and a high health pool and toughness, that is completely broken.

That will turn a lot of people off, just like HoT, It will make people find a new game, and they won’t come back. The bar of excellence dropped after HoT, and if nothing is done about this, it’s gonna drop even lower. That’s hyperbole.

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Posted by: Ubi.4136

Ubi.4136

Wall of text.

*looks at above signature

You do realize, that everyone bandwagoning to create a superserver that can never lose probably cost the game more players than any skill balance or changes…right?

Right?

Lost in the Maguuma [TC]
Te Nosce [TC]

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Posted by: Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

A rev in every party would shut this down.[..]

Stop being so hyperbolic and use well though out arguments to justify your position that scourges are ok as is.

Well I just spat tea over my monitor, thanks!

Firstly, a Rev zerg would be just as if not more powerful than the Scourge zerg. 50x CoR = everybody dead, Dave.

Secondly, it’s preposterous for the anti-Scourge lobby to tell people to stop being hyperbolic.

My head exploded.

Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.

(edited by Svarty.8019)

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Posted by: Spurnshadow.3678

Spurnshadow.3678

Wall of text.

*looks at above signature

You do realize, that everyone bandwagoning to create a superserver that can never lose probably cost the game more players than any skill balance or changes…right?

Right?

How does that “opinion” negate anything I or others have said? It doesn’t.

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Posted by: Ubi.4136

Ubi.4136

1. They already said the elites are being changed before launch – this thread is beating a dead horse.
2. There are videos going back to year one showing turtles surviving everything thrown at them…scourge is no different.
3. Adjustments are needed (likely to the number of targets barrier affects), but everything is pure speculation since they already said changes are coming (vague, but it’s something).

I’m honestly more concerned about the power creep, where classes are getting the ability to do 2x-5x the average players total health in a single shot. No class should be able to use a single ability (regardless of setup) and down every other class in the game regardless of health/toughness. But, hopefully, they will adjust that too in the changes they are currently making.

I main a necro, and will still be playing reaper after testing scourge, unless they make changes to how it plays.

Lost in the Maguuma [TC]
Te Nosce [TC]

(edited by Ubi.4136)

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Posted by: Hana.8143

Hana.8143

Edit:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Path-of-Fire-Stress-Test-September-7
Looks like you can do this thursday and make a vid

Nope, it’s an other PvE stress test.

Also i’m just waiting for people to focus on the main point, which is :
too much barrier, too much condi, too much support, too much debuff.

What can you guys do against a perma barrier scourge (look at the first video carefully, and especially at the hp bar, or life force bar (since it’s also the main thing which grants barrier) of the one who made the video, or even the ones in squad (just have to look on the characters, you see their hp bars))

What can you guys do against unlimited torment / cripple / burning (look at all the ennemies targeted during the video and especially at the condition bar)

What can you guys do against your no stab characters. (look at how many time people tried to cross the scourge zerg, and especially at what happened to the one who tried to cross the zerg)

You have 4 hours, please be quite during the exam, thanks.

(edited by Hana.8143)

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

You can let the Scourges starve themselves of life force, thus drastically reducing the Barrier (no more 20 target sharing, only 5 target on a 30 second cooldown), condition cleanse, and damage (no more shade pulses).

Then, just kill them. They’re even more vulnerable to CC and spikes than regular Necros are.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

You can let the Scourges starve themselves of life force, thus drastically reducing the Barrier (no more 20 target sharing, only 5 target on a 30 second cooldown), condition cleanse, and damage (no more shade pulses).

Then, just kill them. They’re even more vulnerable to CC and spikes than regular Necros are.

That not going to fix the problem its about making a boon on players more of a risk then a benefit. When they added in war doing more dmg for each boon a person had that they where attking ppl went crazy over the fact that a “boon” has become less of a postive effects and more of a bad effect by having one. Scourge dose this but to a much higher level.
Path of Corruption with Nefarious Favor is game braking. Add in Unending Corruption and Feed from Corruption the scourge becomes unstoppable because cc will no longer work vs it and they will eat more boons. Add in other effects like Corrupt Boon, Trail of Anguish, and realy all of the skill on scourge as well as the wepon effects it becomes game ending for most builds and classes. At what point is it ok for your own team to do more harm to you as a player then what the other team can do you to?

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Necro has always made boons a potential liability. Why are you treating it as though Scourge is some new thing in that regard? Well of Corruption has been in the game since launch and has been meta for zerg play since a meta formed.

FYI, starving them of life force also cuts their corruption potential.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: Ubi.4136

Ubi.4136

There is no reason to continue this since we don’t know what the changes are…but:

1. The thread is made by an Ele who isn’t happy with weaver or their barrier.
2. He keeps referring to “the video”, the same could be said about the 2 year old Revenant video…look at how the turtle loses no health and can’t be killed.
3. The other Ele is worried about boons being bad instead of good. Boons should not be an “I win” card because you can spam them and keep 100% uptime during fights for your roaming build.
4. Deadeye will be more broken as will the burn guard build in my opinion.

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Te Nosce [TC]

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Posted by: Artaz.3819

Artaz.3819

Yes, please starve the Necros of life force. They have nothing on weapon sets or combinations with utilities/traits that generates it. Also, don’t die either and don’t let those couple of plebs die that seem to fall at the beginning of just about every zerg clash.

This is kind of nonsense though. 40 coordinated and built with synergy of mechanic stacking will always beat 40 random or even more.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

If you’re outside 900 range, Necros have one weapon for life force. That’s it. And it’s slow at building it, too if it can’t manage piercing. They can’t gain appreciable life force without something to hit or without people dying frequently.

A couple plebs dying early should be the end of it. Long range pressure will do wonders to break apart an all-Scourge zerg because they can’t do any appreciable damage back and the barriers they’re throwing up to protect themselves cost them life force.

Funny how the answer to fighting Necros of any stripe is “attrition them to death.”

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
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I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: Lahmia.2193

Lahmia.2193

If you’re outside 900 range, Necros have one weapon for life force. That’s it. And it’s slow at building it, too if it can’t manage piercing. They can’t gain appreciable life force without something to hit or without people dying frequently.

A couple plebs dying early should be the end of it. Long range pressure will do wonders to break apart an all-Scourge zerg because they can’t do any appreciable damage back and the barriers they’re throwing up to protect themselves cost them life force.

Funny how the answer to fighting Necros of any stripe is “attrition them to death.”

But that requires minimal effort and co-ordination. OP doesn’t want to have to do that. Nerf Scourge instead.

Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death.

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Posted by: LetoII.3782

LetoII.3782

Yeah…
There’s more than one person that thinks scourge is redic

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Posted by: Hana.8143

Hana.8143

Stap saying I’m ele and I’m sad about the weaver
I made my shining blade and I’ll play weaver even if it sucks.
I’m one with my class, and if it dies, I die with it. (such love for ele wow)

I didn’t make this thread cause I’m an ele. I did it cause scourge doesn’t have a proper way to be countered (Once again :

“What can you guys do against a perma barrier scourge (look at the first video carefully, and especially at the hp bar, or life force bar (since it’s also the main thing which grants barrier) of the one who made the video, or even the ones in squad (just have to look on the characters, you see their hp bars))

What can you guys do against unlimited torment / cripple / burning (look at all the ennemies targeted during the video and especially at the condition bar)

What can you guys do against your no stab characters. (look at how many time people tried to cross the scourge zerg, and especially at what happened to the one who tried to cross the zerg)" )

You’re all saying “let them waste their life force” But as a Scourge, you basically have to jump into the ennemy zerg without thinking, be aggressive and you win, cause you’ll kill at least 2 or 3 people, and have your lifeforce back (always a pug dying first push, on every server) repeat until you kill a lot of guys and make cry the ennemy commander.

And just running away won’t help since, as I said thousands of time, Scourges just have to not waste their barrier. cause you’ll all be out of range too and can’t harm them.

(edited by Hana.8143)

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Scourge effective range: 900

How many classes have viable 1200+ range weapons? They won’t have a choice but to spend their life force on barrier. If they don’t, you kill them. If they do, they eventually run out and are easy kills.

If Scourges are charging, well, you have literally the least mobile class in the game charging you. One that has no Stability, I might add. There are plenty of options already in meta zerg builds to punish them for such a maneuver.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: Solori.6025

Solori.6025

If you’re outside 900 range, Necros have one weapon for life force. That’s it. And it’s slow at building it, too if it can’t manage piercing. They can’t gain appreciable life force without something to hit or without people dying frequently.

A couple plebs dying early should be the end of it. Long range pressure will do wonders to break apart an all-Scourge zerg because they can’t do any appreciable damage back and the barriers they’re throwing up to protect themselves cost them life force.

Funny how the answer to fighting Necros of any stripe is “attrition them to death.”

The attrition class, gets attritioned to death.


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS5P_LAqiVg

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Posted by: Solori.6025

Solori.6025

Edit:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Path-of-Fire-Stress-Test-September-7
Looks like you can do this thursday and make a vid

Nope, it’s an other PvE stress test.

Also i’m just waiting for people to focus on the main point, which is :
too much barrier, too much condi, too much support, too much debuff.

I think people are still waiting on you to provide nonhyperbolic evidence?
Like I said, find an organized zerg, and fight them doing your 40 scourge, tell us how that goes.

What can you guys do against a perma barrier scourge (look at the first video carefully, and especially at the hp bar, or life force bar (since it’s also the main thing which grants barrier) of the one who made the video, or even the ones in squad (just have to look on the characters, you see their hp bars))

This is what I was talking about.
If something relies on life force, you spend life force spamming one move and no one gives you life force.
What happens?
I wonder if you even read the replies from people that play the class you are crusading against?

What can you guys do against unlimited torment / cripple / burning (look at all the ennemies targeted during the video and especially at the condition bar)

What can you guys do against your no stab characters. (look at how many time people tried to cross the scourge zerg, and especially at what happened to the one who tried to cross the zerg)

Did you do this against an organized group?
Do you have a video of those fights?

You have 4 hours, please be quite during the exam, thanks.

See my first reply.
You have provided N.O.T.H.I.N.G.
nothing of substance or value to prove anything you say is factually correct.
Conditions are strong, yea base necro does that
turtling is strong?
People have been doing that since 2012 that’s nothing new
And all of them have had the same or similair weaknesses.

I think you need to go take the remedial exam down the hall
Thanks
Edit:

As Ubi pointed out there is no reason to continue this discussion
There is no reason to continue this since we don’t know what the changes are…but:
1. The thread is made by an Ele who isn’t happy with weaver or their barrier.
2. He keeps referring to “the video”, the same could be said about the 2 year old Revenant video…look at how the turtle loses no health and can’t be killed.
3. The other Ele is worried about boons being bad instead of good. Boons should not be an “I win” card because you can spam them and keep 100% uptime during fights for your roaming build.


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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Necro has always made boons a potential liability. Why are you treating it as though Scourge is some new thing in that regard? Well of Corruption has been in the game since launch and has been meta for zerg play since a meta formed.

FYI, starving them of life force also cuts their corruption potential.

Your right but this is on a comply different level. Some corruption is good but they are liniment by ranged long cd and slow hits. What scourge has and will bring is low cd long ranged and big aoe of corruption. As well as corruption to a set type. It dose not mean much to convert swiftness into crippler but it means a lot to convert swiftness into torment. Ontop of getting the boon it self something that is mostly a mez class effect as well as thf taking away a lot of these 2 class id as “magic thfs.”

Most of necro corruption are held back by being on long cd long cast times or must get in to melee ranged to have full effect they are also held back to being a 1 for 1 a boon can only become a set condi type. Necro also as a class is harder to support and not able to self support as well. Scourge takes all of these balancing that necor has at it core and removes them comply. This is a real problem if they do not fix scourge for things like wvw and spvp. This is pure power creep and maybe a real P2W effect.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Ubi.4136

Ubi.4136

Most of necro corruption are held back by being on long cd long cast times or must get in to melee ranged to have full effect

Do you even play necro?

Weapons:
Focus 5 – Spinal Shivers; 1 sec cast, 20 sec cooldown, 1200 range
Dagger 3 – Dark Pact; 1 sec cast, 25 sec cooldown, 600 range
Axe 3 – Unholy Feast; 1 sec cast, 12 sec cooldown, 600 range

Utility:
Corrupt Boon – .5 sec cast, 15 sec cooldown, 1200 range
Well of Corruption – .25 sec cast, 40 sec cooldown, 900 range

Traits:
Major-Chill of Death – below 50% cast Lesser Spinal Shivers on foe, 1200 range
Grandmaster-Spiteful Spirit – convert boons to conditions entering shroud, 600 range

All of these corrupt boons, and the only one on a long cooldown is well of corruption. Longest cast time is 1 sec and that really isn’t long and none of these are melee range.

Coincidentally, I currently have all of these in my wvw build, except I don’t use axe.

We do not know what changes are being made. How about you wait until launch to see what they have done.

Lost in the Maguuma [TC]
Te Nosce [TC]

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Posted by: Khenzy.9348

Khenzy.9348

This thread is very informative.
You get to know the name of those actually defending Scourge. You know, those that have 0 credibility or any notion of balance whatsoever.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

This thread is very informative.
You get to know the name of those actually defending Scourge. You know, those that have 0 credibility or any notion of balance whatsoever.

So this guy can bother you in-game.

Yeah, your time is probably better spent thinking about how you can counter things rather than harassing people in game.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)

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Posted by: Ubi.4136

Ubi.4136

Condition damage should be removed ENTIRELY as a play-style.

And he says no one in THIS thread has credibility.

Personally, I hate the way scourge plays. After testing, have decided I would rather stay in my reaper build. I really don’t get why the scourge barrier affects other players, I think it should be personal, but that’s just my opinion.

I will stick with HoT elites for several classes. My ranger wilI stay druid and my mesmer will stay chrono. Ele will stay tempest. My engineer will definitely switch to holosmith, cause the damage is stupidly over the top unless it gets changed too. Deadeye…just lol.

What I take issue with is a bunch of Ele mains complaining they should nerf other classes elites just because they don’t like Weaver.

The devs have said changes are coming before launch. I have stated numerous times, why don’t we wait to see how the class is changed before continuing the nerf hammer crusade.

Boons should not be an “I win” card. Whoever can stack the most for the most duration wins. I really like that a hard counter is coming. The blob-fest that is wvw will be interesting for a few months as people try new things. Not a fan of the shift to “all condition all the time” but that was already happening and I will adapt like always.

Lost in the Maguuma [TC]
Te Nosce [TC]

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Most of necro corruption are held back by being on long cd long cast times or must get in to melee ranged to have full effect

Do you even play necro?

Weapons:
Focus 5 – Spinal Shivers; 1 sec cast, 20 sec cooldown, 1200 range
Dagger 3 – Dark Pact; 1 sec cast, 25 sec cooldown, 600 range
Axe 3 – Unholy Feast; 1 sec cast, 12 sec cooldown, 600 range

Utility:
Corrupt Boon – .5 sec cast, 15 sec cooldown, 1200 range
Well of Corruption – .25 sec cast, 40 sec cooldown, 900 range

Traits:
Major-Chill of Death – below 50% cast Lesser Spinal Shivers on foe, 1200 range
Grandmaster-Spiteful Spirit – convert boons to conditions entering shroud, 600 range

All of these corrupt boons, and the only one on a long cooldown is well of corruption. Longest cast time is 1 sec and that really isn’t long and none of these are melee range.

Coincidentally, I currently have all of these in my wvw build, except I don’t use axe.

We do not know what changes are being made. How about you wait until launch to see what they have done.

Lots of long cast times and very targeted / speed limented. Also long recast. The thing is your going to get all of that AND what scourge has so if your suggesting these alone are strong then your saying that what scourge going to get added to this is going to be all the stronger.

THAT is the problem. Necro already has too much as a boon croupstion scourge is going to get more benfit from the croupstion as well as more of it. All on top of getting a self support effect that dose not kill self healing and healing from others.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

(edited by Jski.6180)

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Posted by: grave of hearts.7830

grave of hearts.7830

Boonspam issues:
1:Constant server load and skill lag when there isnt even a battle,making the wvw experience horrible for everyone in the map.
2:It is unskilled spam,keeping low skill people alive with no real improvement to theyr abilities since the majority is there only to get rewards.
3:it makes the game too forgiving for low skill guild commanders that pick theyr compos from youtube and go on to fight pugs that dont have ways to counter it.
4:It makes other more inteligent tactics and compositions that could breathe life into wvw non competetitive,thus making the mode stale.
5:brainless spam costs anet money,thus shortening game life.

Scourge Issues:
1:Works only when the enemy has boons,like a lot of them,like none on pve and only on wvw.
2:at 900 range of a blob any necro reaper or scourge gonna be dead because of random targeting during 1 spamming and a criminaly lack of defence mechanisms and escapes.
3:On objective defences 900 range means nothing when the walls are nuked from 1500.
4:On objective attacks,no one will ever care about your bone totems on wall when theres 4 meteor swarms and several temporal curtains getting the bags.

The op just didnt think when he made the post,he probably only made it to promote hate speech to get scourge nerfed.
Because thats his daily bread and butter ktrain threatened there.

SoS Defence and Emergency commander
If you see a gear above my head……run
If you see me Offline,its totaly not a trap

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Boonspam issues:
1:Constant server load and skill lag when there isnt even a battle,making the wvw experience horrible for everyone in the map.
2:It is unskilled spam,keeping low skill people alive with no real improvement to theyr abilities since the majority is there only to get rewards.
3:it makes the game too forgiving for low skill guild commanders that pick theyr compos from youtube and go on to fight pugs that dont have ways to counter it.
4:It makes other more inteligent tactics and compositions that could breathe life into wvw non competetitive,thus making the mode stale.
5:brainless spam costs anet money,thus shortening game life.

Scourge Issues:
1:Works only when the enemy has boons,like a lot of them,like none on pve and only on wvw.
2:at 900 range of a blob any necro reaper or scourge gonna be dead because of random targeting during 1 spamming and a criminaly lack of defence mechanisms and escapes.
3:On objective defences 900 range means nothing when the walls are nuked from 1500.
4:On objective attacks,no one will ever care about your bone totems on wall when theres 4 meteor swarms and several temporal curtains getting the bags.

The op just didnt think when he made the post,he probably only made it to promote hate speech to get scourge nerfed.
Because thats his daily bread and butter ktrain threatened there.

Condis are harder on the server then boons are due to how condi dmg updates all the time and only one boon reg updates over time i guess.
I think your mixing up condis for boons.

Spvp and wvw are effected by boon croupstion pve to a lesser point but that more of an argument spiting pve from every thing else and keep wvw / spvp in its own system.
As this is talking about wvw best to stay with wvw in mind.

The max ranged on scourge is 1,500 and can attk from the other side of walls with no LOS.

If you lock down siege on the wall they care a great deal. Scourge maybe the best end all be all attk / def keep/tower siege class in the game.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

(edited by Jski.6180)

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Posted by: Khenzy.9348

Khenzy.9348

This thread is very informative.
You get to know the name of those actually defending Scourge. You know, those that have 0 credibility or any notion of balance whatsoever.

So this guy can bother you in-game.

Yeah, your time is probably better spent thinking about how you can counter things rather than harassing people in game.

Lmao. What? Are you actually serious with this post?

Condition damage should be removed ENTIRELY as a play-style.

And he says no one in THIS thread has credibility.

Why don’t you quote my entire post? Oh wait, that doesn’t serve your argument. Contextomy much? lol.

Some posters in this thread are so in denial that are actually resorting to ad hominems, hilarious.

(edited by Khenzy.9348)

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Yes, I really am serious. I was getting whispers from you (or someone with your exact same style and thought process) in-game over this thread.

Pretty pathetic, really.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Do this look at the build your running on a non necro (odds are your going to go scorges if your playing necor now so not realty going to be helpful). Try to make that build give out as few boons as you can make it and still make it fill that same roll you where playing. Ask your self how viable is that build now with out boons can you even use skill on one wepon vs another with out giving out boons.

THAT is what you must do to be viable vs a scourge and the nightmare to come to wvw. This is a problem for GW2’s pvp because there is no viable way to play any class with out having boons both aoe and self only.

Anet please nerf the hell out of scourge corruption or your killing any type of pvp game play and adding in a friendly fire system though you boons.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: LetoII.3782

LetoII.3782

Anet please nerf the hell out of scourge corruption or your killing any type of pvp game play and adding in a friendly fire system though you boons.

Scourge is Anet’s retribution for all the infractions and whiny posts.
All is vain

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Posted by: Ravezaar.4951

Ravezaar.4951

Anet please nerf the hell out of scourge corruption or your killing any type of pvp game play and adding in a friendly fire system though you boons.

Scourge is Necros retribution for all the infractions and whiny posts.
All is vain

#fixeditforya

Underjordens Furste 80 Necro Piken-server
Servant of Dhuum

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Anet please nerf the hell out of scourge corruption or your killing any type of pvp game play and adding in a friendly fire system though you boons.

Scourge is Necros retribution for all the infractions and whiny posts.
All is vain

#fixeditforya

As necro been the dmg class in wvw for about 3 years now i do not get your fix. Also very rude to do that.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: grave of hearts.7830

grave of hearts.7830

Boonspam issues:
1:Constant server load and skill lag when there isnt even a battle,making the wvw experience horrible for everyone in the map.
2:It is unskilled spam,keeping low skill people alive with no real improvement to theyr abilities since the majority is there only to get rewards.
3:it makes the game too forgiving for low skill guild commanders that pick theyr compos from youtube and go on to fight pugs that dont have ways to counter it.
4:It makes other more inteligent tactics and compositions that could breathe life into wvw non competetitive,thus making the mode stale.
5:brainless spam costs anet money,thus shortening game life.

Scourge Issues:
1:Works only when the enemy has boons,like a lot of them,like none on pve and only on wvw.
2:at 900 range of a blob any necro reaper or scourge gonna be dead because of random targeting during 1 spamming and a criminaly lack of defence mechanisms and escapes.
3:On objective defences 900 range means nothing when the walls are nuked from 1500.
4:On objective attacks,no one will ever care about your bone totems on wall when theres 4 meteor swarms and several temporal curtains getting the bags.

The op just didnt think when he made the post,he probably only made it to promote hate speech to get scourge nerfed.
Because thats his daily bread and butter ktrain threatened there.

Condis are harder on the server then boons are due to how condi dmg updates all the time and only one boon reg updates over time i guess.
I think your mixing up condis for boons.

Spvp and wvw are effected by boon croupstion pve to a lesser point but that more of an argument spiting pve from every thing else and keep wvw / spvp in its own system.
As this is talking about wvw best to stay with wvw in mind.

The max ranged on scourge is 1,500 and can attk from the other side of walls with no LOS.

If you lock down siege on the wall they care a great deal. Scourge maybe the best end all be all attk / def keep/tower siege class in the game.

Boonspam is done constantly,condis need a target.
Everyone feels the cancer called boonspam when a guild walks into a wvw map spamming boons.
Also boons do update as much with condis with traits that increase healing and boon duration and banners etc.
Maximum range on scourge isnt 1500,dont confuse leash ranges with cast ranges.
A 300 radius shade remains as useless as a mark on a wall,and you need external help to trigger it from focus mesmer.
Even warrior longbow can negate larger areas of walls for longer periods.
And calling it possible best objective based for wvw is just wishfull thinking when elementalists have no issues of wiping the walls clean.
I could see it beeing problematic on spvp,but tbh bunkering on a ring shouldnt been a thing.
And last but not least,the boon conversion on scourge is just a makeshift solution that came at the expence of other builds.
They removed the signet conversion which was a semi decent way to fight off the toxic builds like warrior and boonspam eles,and gave nothing back that is competitive.
If you want to talk about grossly overpowerered lets talk Deadeye,and how easily one can kill while spamming spotter shot as a zerker or condi or viper.

SoS Defence and Emergency commander
If you see a gear above my head……run
If you see me Offline,its totaly not a trap

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Boonspam issues:
1:Constant server load and skill lag when there isnt even a battle,making the wvw experience horrible for everyone in the map.
2:It is unskilled spam,keeping low skill people alive with no real improvement to theyr abilities since the majority is there only to get rewards.
3:it makes the game too forgiving for low skill guild commanders that pick theyr compos from youtube and go on to fight pugs that dont have ways to counter it.
4:It makes other more inteligent tactics and compositions that could breathe life into wvw non competetitive,thus making the mode stale.
5:brainless spam costs anet money,thus shortening game life.

Scourge Issues:
1:Works only when the enemy has boons,like a lot of them,like none on pve and only on wvw.
2:at 900 range of a blob any necro reaper or scourge gonna be dead because of random targeting during 1 spamming and a criminaly lack of defence mechanisms and escapes.
3:On objective defences 900 range means nothing when the walls are nuked from 1500.
4:On objective attacks,no one will ever care about your bone totems on wall when theres 4 meteor swarms and several temporal curtains getting the bags.

The op just didnt think when he made the post,he probably only made it to promote hate speech to get scourge nerfed.
Because thats his daily bread and butter ktrain threatened there.

Condis are harder on the server then boons are due to how condi dmg updates all the time and only one boon reg updates over time i guess.
I think your mixing up condis for boons.

Spvp and wvw are effected by boon croupstion pve to a lesser point but that more of an argument spiting pve from every thing else and keep wvw / spvp in its own system.
As this is talking about wvw best to stay with wvw in mind.

The max ranged on scourge is 1,500 and can attk from the other side of walls with no LOS.

If you lock down siege on the wall they care a great deal. Scourge maybe the best end all be all attk / def keep/tower siege class in the game.

Boonspam is done constantly,condis need a target.
Everyone feels the cancer called boonspam when a guild walks into a wvw map spamming boons.
Also boons do update as much with condis with traits that increase healing and boon duration and banners etc.
Maximum range on scourge isnt 1500,dont confuse leash ranges with cast ranges.
A 300 radius shade remains as useless as a mark on a wall,and you need external help to trigger it from focus mesmer.
Even warrior longbow can negate larger areas of walls for longer periods.
And calling it possible best objective based for wvw is just wishfull thinking when elementalists have no issues of wiping the walls clean.
I could see it beeing problematic on spvp,but tbh bunkering on a ring shouldnt been a thing.
And last but not least,the boon conversion on scourge is just a makeshift solution that came at the expence of other builds.
They removed the signet conversion which was a semi decent way to fight off the toxic builds like warrior and boonspam eles,and gave nothing back that is competitive.
If you want to talk about grossly overpowerered lets talk Deadeye,and how easily one can kill while spamming spotter shot as a zerker or condi or viper.

From necro it dose not condis are very AoE.
Boons are often not a chose of the skill more of an after efect of it.
Boons do not tick like condis do so they dont update or at least they do no need to.
The soul things de-spawn at 1,500 ranged letting scourge preset up there field.
You do not need LoS once you put them down so if you defing you just need to put them down where you think some one will be if your attking you put them where ppl need to be to land there attks. Its the end all be all ground denial.
The less you need to move the more you can set up with a scourge. So siege spvp or simply holding is what scourge is the best at.
What scourge has is the necro boon conversion as well as its own boon conversion. Its not just the stander converstion is the any boon into torment making every boon you have a condi dmg effect. If its last min add on then it should be removed and the effect of core necro changed to some level to make it less op Path of Corruption is going to be a real problem when you can use it ever 5 mins and hit 10+ targets.
Ele spamming the weak boons not stab quickness and resistant. Resistances is the counter to condi dmg but as a class type this corruption is a hard counter to the hard counter.
Dead eye is a projectile easy to stop scourge is an pAoE there no counter to this effect.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA