Guild Wars 2

Lord Kuru.3685:

Making T1 the Gold league by itself won’t help push players into transferring to lower tiers (which I believe is one of the reasons behind the League idea).

With T1 and T2 as the Gold league, there may be just enough boring weeks of blowouts that some guilds might consider transferring, but not enough to destroy WvW with too many blowouts.

That’s likely what they are hoping but they are taking a horrible risk. The current format will definitely encourage people to move off the #4-6 Servers when facing 6-7 weeks of less than fun matches, but ANet better start praying that more people do decide to move rather than just quit the game.

If I were in charge I would have set it up for more long-term sustainability/success:

Champions League: #1-3
Gold League: #4-12
Silver League: #13-18
Bronze League: #19-24

With Gold League having 9 Servers most would only face the #4-5 Ranked Servers once while hopefully experiencing much more competitive matches overall.

The #4 Server would get “bandwagoned” to hopefully receiving enough numbers that when it is “promoted” to Champions League the following Season (especially seeing transfers from the “relegated” Server) that it is competitive there.

There would be a constant “transfer cycle” every 7 weeks for people who enjoy “Champions League” play while hopefully all the other Leagues see a bit more parity outside of the pending #4 Ranked Server.

To me that is a much more viable and sustainable model than the one they chose to go with.

Keep in mind Rackhir… the whole reason they dropped the original tiers was because the big three were complaining all they ever faced was themselves.

Anet catered and added the random matchups, which then caused the major blowouts and the incentive to stack to the big three.

If they go back to the big three facing eachother, they will just start complaining about “boring” matchups again. Anet will not do this.

Shiren.9532:

Sharpoon.8197:

I just hope that all the guilds transferring to T1 servers will consider T2 servers instead

The T2 servers are the worst place to be of the 24 servers. You will never fight anything but T2 and T1 servers and you are guaranteed to fight all three T1 servers (currently TC has close to T1 numbers so every week for 7 weeks you will more thank likely be crushed). There is no incentive to transfer to a T2 server unless you like getting your kitten kicked. T1 should be it’s own tier, never has any server below T1 come close to not being a blow out since the new matchmaking system was implemented.

If players want to fight T1 servers, let them transfer to T1 servers. No-one else has the numbers to reasonably compete.

The new league system is better for most servers but it’s a disaster for T2 servers. Population imbalances are a monster of a problem in WvW and nothing has been done to address it. The new league system is going to guarantee is a significant problem beating down on a handful of unlucky servers.

Match variation doesn’t matter anywhere near as much as some semblance of match balance. I know that WvW by design is imbalanced and I know that Devon wants match variety but T2 servers don’t want T1 variety. To make an extreme example, putting the 24th ranked server against the 1st ranked server is technically variety. It’s not a good match.

T1 needs to be locked off in it’s own league.

I don’t understand why someone would want to be on the dominating servers team. I mean its boring as kitten.

If SoS makes it into the Gold League I’m seriously considering transferring there. I play NA timezone and SoS could use some more people at that time. And it sure won’t be boring.

Johje Holan.4607:

Shiren.9532:

Sharpoon.8197:

I just hope that all the guilds transferring to T1 servers will consider T2 servers instead

The T2 servers are the worst place to be of the 24 servers. You will never fight anything but T2 and T1 servers and you are guaranteed to fight all three T1 servers (currently TC has close to T1 numbers so every week for 7 weeks you will more thank likely be crushed). There is no incentive to transfer to a T2 server unless you like getting your kitten kicked. T1 should be it’s own tier, never has any server below T1 come close to not being a blow out since the new matchmaking system was implemented.

If players want to fight T1 servers, let them transfer to T1 servers. No-one else has the numbers to reasonably compete.

The new league system is better for most servers but it’s a disaster for T2 servers. Population imbalances are a monster of a problem in WvW and nothing has been done to address it. The new league system is going to guarantee is a significant problem beating down on a handful of unlucky servers.

Match variation doesn’t matter anywhere near as much as some semblance of match balance. I know that WvW by design is imbalanced and I know that Devon wants match variety but T2 servers don’t want T1 variety. To make an extreme example, putting the 24th ranked server against the 1st ranked server is technically variety. It’s not a good match.

T1 needs to be locked off in it’s own league.

I don’t understand why someone would want to be on the dominating servers team. I mean its boring as kitten.

If SoS makes it into the Gold League I’m seriously considering transferring there. I play NA timezone and SoS could use some more people at that time. And it sure won’t be boring.

Because when you’re outmanned by that large of a margin, your only option is to try to ninja stuff. If you try to fight you just lose because you have way less people. Eventually the server with more people gets bored, so they just let you take stuff so they can take it back. Repeat for 7 days. Not fun.

Andrew Clear.1750:

Johje Holan.4607:

selan.8354:

really just put the t1 in 1 league. i was on fa since the start and dont wanna move because we are forced to fight t1.

Honestly, this would probably be best.

League 1: BG, SoR, JQ
League 2: #4-#9
League 3: #10-#15
League 4: #16-#24

Dumbest idea. This would just benefit TC. Suck it up and be in the 1-6 league.

Man, you all complain too kitten much. Either participate or don’t. I don’t care if I get stomped during the season, I am still gonna play and have fun. And I do believe that getting stomped is more fun than doing the stomping.

This arrangment would benefit the most people.

I totally agree with you – getting stomped is way more fun than doing the stomping. I see that you are on SBI – so am I. Have you enjoyed the last few matchups? I haven’t. I’ve barely played because we are dominating so much that its just boring.

If the leagues stay as Devon stated, get ready for more of that because we will be stomping our way through the Season. The only competition we will have is Mag and SoS/DB – but who knows what’s happening to DB, they might not even be competition anymore as well as possibly CD.

The arrangement I have outlined above is the best grouping of servers you could get while still maintaining multiples of 3. It will provide the most fun for the most people. It will give more balanced matches than any other arrangement. You have to look beyond just the numbers (or the data as Devon likes to say).

It will allow an actual competition for the champion of each league – except for League 2 which TC will win:

League 1: BG, SoR, JQ. Up for grabs.
League 2: TC, FA, DB, SoS, Mag, SBI. TC by a landslide. But most of the actual matches will be great fun and have great fights.
League 3: Ebay, CD, BP, Yaks, Kain, IoJ. Who will win that? I don’t think you can say right now.
League 4: DH, NSP, HoD, SF, ET, GoM, FC, AR, DR. I don’t know much about these servers honestly and while the edge would have to go to NSP, it seems like this won’t be completely dominated by any one server.

Ostra.3927:

Keep in mind Rackhir… the whole reason they dropped the original tiers was because the big three were complaining all they ever faced was themselves.

Anet catered and added the random matchups, which then caused the major blowouts and the incentive to stack to the big three.

If they go back to the big three facing eachother, they will just start complaining about “boring” matchups again. Anet will not do this.

Actually now all the T1 Servers do is complain when they aren’t matched up against each other.

The format I proposed ensures the Champions League changes every 7 weeks. They will still get some variety but overall the matches will be balanced (or seemingly as close as we can get) and intense every week, and they will now be theoretically fighting for something beyond Ranking.

In the current format every T1 Server is likely to have 2 matches out of 7 against 2 T2 opponents which have proven to be largely non-competitive (even more so now with the latest round of guild swapping that took place). The “Big 3” will face each other all together only once:

1: 1-2-3 4-5-6
2: 1-2-4 3-5-6
3: 1-2-5 3-4-6
4: 1-3-4 2-5-6
5: 1-3-5 2-4-6
6: 2-3-4 1-5-6
7: 2-3-5 1-4-6

They will have 4 “head-to-head” matches with a T2 Server in the mix. So far historically those matches have also proven to be fairly non-competitive.

So the current Season is on-track to provide at best 1 really competitive match out of 7 weeks.

Maybe all the recent transfers were enough so even those “head-to-head” matches are more competitive but I’m not betting on it.

Andrew Clear.1750:

Johje Holan.4607:

selan.8354:

really just put the t1 in 1 league. i was on fa since the start and dont wanna move because we are forced to fight t1.

Honestly, this would probably be best.

League 1: BG, SoR, JQ
League 2: #4-#9
League 3: #10-#15
League 4: #16-#24

Dumbest idea. This would just benefit TC. Suck it up and be in the 1-6 league.

Man, you all complain too kitten much. Either participate or don’t. I don’t care if I get stomped during the season, I am still gonna play and have fun. And I do believe that getting stomped is more fun than doing the stomping.

If you believe what you say, then why is this a dumb idea? Your logic is flawed.

As for any of the 4-9 servers… They have all lost a number of guilds recently to T1. I have zero confidence in the current rankings. The only thing we know for sure is that servers 1-3 are stronger. Let them play each other. 4-9 would be a lot more interesting right now then you think.

Andrew Clear.1750:

Johje Holan.4607:

selan.8354:

really just put the t1 in 1 league. i was on fa since the start and dont wanna move because we are forced to fight t1.

Honestly, this would probably be best.

League 1: BG, SoR, JQ
League 2: #4-#9
League 3: #10-#15
League 4: #16-#24

Dumbest idea. This would just benefit TC. Suck it up and be in the 1-6 league.

Man, you all complain too kitten much. Either participate or don’t. I don’t care if I get stomped during the season, I am still gonna play and have fun. And I do believe that getting stomped is more fun than doing the stomping.

TC is a lot closer to the strength of the other tier 2 servers than any of the tier 1 servers.

This is actually one the least imbalanced match ups the gold league will be guaranteed to see: http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/map/1019

Everyone league is going to have an alpha server, but the gold league is going to have 2-3 servers that will be dominated every match. When there are only 6 servers in the league, it’s going to be 7 weeks of blow outs (unless there is a proper T1 match).

I don’t think you can get players to transfer off of T1 servers, at least not completely. The best we can do is isolate them in their own league so that the server stacking problem doesn’t become anyone else’s. If someone stacks the silver league, they will move up to gold. The difference between the top 3 ranked servers and 4th, 5th and sixth is too big to justify them being in the same league.

If the game can only have three or four stacked servers, let them play it out between each other. Players are only stacking on 3-4 servers. Those servers shouldn’t be in the same pool as anyone else.

Johje Holan.4607:

I don’t understand why someone would want to be on the dominating servers team. I mean its boring as kitten.

If SoS makes it into the Gold League I’m seriously considering transferring there. I play NA timezone and SoS could use some more people at that time. And it sure won’t be boring.

Because it’s a completely different game in T1. The dominating servers have 20 man zergs to capture supply camps while the 60 man zerg smashes down garrison. Your five man guild team will be crushed everywhere they go and there will be very few allies with you. Lopsided matches usually result in no-one pressuring on any side. A T1 server is structured to have a zerg on all four maps capable of fending off similair numbers from other T1 zergs. Imagine what happens when not only does your server not have similair numbers themselves, but neither does the third server. Suddenly a force designed to take on two zergs has no zerg to contend with.

Outside T1 there is a lot of small group gameplay. With a group of 5 to 15 people you can get a lot of stuff done. In T1 everything is giant zerg gameplay. Your only chance at capping stuff is to ninja it.

A blow out isn’t fun on either side. Dominating servers have little to do and dominated servers struggle to move beyond spawn because the dominating zerg isn’t busy elsewhere.

I agree that TC would win silver if T1 was its own league. I still think every match in silver league would be far better than most of the matches in the currently proposed gold league.

Look, this season is gonna happen, with 3 leagues, and they aren’t gonna change it. I prefer how it is, even though no matter what it will be imbalanced. Think of this as a MLB season. You have the haves (a small few) and the have nots.

We know who will win, but kitten it…it is fun trying to upset the apple cart.

Andrew Clear.1750:

Look, this season is gonna happen, with 3 leagues, and they aren’t gonna change it. I prefer how it is, even though no matter what it will be imbalanced. Think of this as a MLB season. You have the haves (a small few) and the have nots.

We know who will win, but kitten it…it is fun trying to upset the apple cart.

if the MLB were like wvw, then the yankees would be allowed to field 100 players

t1 has stacked too much. its because they all wanna fight it out in t1 atm. so why not lock them into 1 league. seriously anet u are forcing us to get smashed 7 weeks in a row. u think thats fun? no its not fun at all its absolut bullkitten!
this is bullkitten and by putting t1 anf t2 into one league u turn my gaming experience into kitten. all i can do is running way from 70+ man zergs everywhere.
at least gieve us an option to not be part of the league at all so we can play wvw and not mass blobs stomping 15 people.

7 weeks this?
http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/map/1019

selan.8354:

t1 has stacked too much. its because they all wanna fight it out in t1 atm. so why not lock them into 1 league. seriously anet u are forcing us to get smashed 7 weeks in a row. u think thats fun? no its not fun at all its absolut bullkitten!
this is bullkitten and by putting t1 anf t2 into one league u turn my gaming experience into kitten. all i can do is running way from 70+ man zergs everywhere.
at least gieve us an option to not be part of the league at all so we can play wvw and not mass blobs stomping 15 people.

7 weeks this?
http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/map/1019

Please just stop. You are making whatever server you are from look bad. I think you are from FA, and that makes it worse. Just stop.

We were never going to have a shot at getting 1st or 3rd for that matter. If any majority of FA actually cared about that, the server would be going the way of Kaineng and DB right now. We will get 7 weeks of endless zerglings to kill. Buy some 20 slot bags, get your team comps ready and let the farming begin. Unless Anet is going to do some serious reevaluation of how they award points in WvW, coverage is always going to equal winning.

Looks like DB may be already tanking to get into the silver league.

DB was already faltering. BG and JQ liquidated their guilds. Pay2win!

So 7th place will get a zillion times the rewards of 6th? Well done, Anet.

junglizm.5843:

DB was already faltering. BG and JQ liquidated their guilds. Pay2win!

You should say cannibalised. That’s much more accurate.

So a solution that they could use to frame this league thing and help better balance out the server population discrepancy. Why not form teams from the leagues that use total points from all three servers to count towards a combination score? This makes sense to help even out populations between high tier and low tier servers knowing that their overall score is tied into the lower tiers as well.

1. would be paired with #12 and #24 = team 1 ; #2 would be paired with #11 and #23 = team 2; #3 would be paired with #10 and #22 = team 3 (and so on)

and the weekly score would be a composite of each member of the team.

I know that it is just an idea I had, so I am sure if the great minds at anet get a hold of it they could definitely tweak this someway. Is there any reason a format like this would be horrible? It can’t be worse than the 7 weeks of spawn camping I have in front of me now.

Blix.8021:

Andrew Clear.1750:

Look, this season is gonna happen, with 3 leagues, and they aren’t gonna change it. I prefer how it is, even though no matter what it will be imbalanced. Think of this as a MLB season. You have the haves (a small few) and the have nots.

We know who will win, but kitten it…it is fun trying to upset the apple cart.

if the MLB were like wvw, then the yankees would be allowed to field 100 players

The yankees can spend 100 million easily, while the twins can only shell out around 30 million….that was my point, and it is completely imbalanced like wvw

Johje Holan.4607:

This arrangment would benefit the most people.

I totally agree with you – getting stomped is way more fun than doing the stomping. I see that you are on SBI – so am I. Have you enjoyed the last few matchups? I haven’t. I’ve barely played because we are dominating so much that its just boring.

If the leagues stay as Devon stated, get ready for more of that because we will be stomping our way through the Season. The only competition we will have is Mag and SoS/DB – but who knows what’s happening to DB, they might not even be competition anymore as well as possibly CD.

The arrangement I have outlined above is the best grouping of servers you could get while still maintaining multiples of 3. It will provide the most fun for the most people. It will give more balanced matches than any other arrangement. You have to look beyond just the numbers (or the data as Devon likes to say).

It will allow an actual competition for the champion of each league – except for League 2 which TC will win:

League 1: BG, SoR, JQ. Up for grabs.
League 2: TC, FA, DB, SoS, Mag, SBI. TC by a landslide. But most of the actual matches will be great fun and have great fights.
League 3: Ebay, CD, BP, Yaks, Kain, IoJ. Who will win that? I don’t think you can say right now.
League 4: DH, NSP, HoD, SF, ET, GoM, FC, AR, DR. I don’t know much about these servers honestly and while the edge would have to go to NSP, it seems like this won’t be completely dominated by any one server.

This is actually the best possible solution. I hope anet reads it and takes it into consideration.
TC/FA are much closer in strength to the T3 servers than they are to the T1 servers. I’m sure JQ/BG/SoR would prefer fighting each other as well, to determine an ultimate champion. They are literally in a league of their own in terms of strength so Anet should make it so.

SoS and Mag have been able to put up a good fight versus TC/FA and SBI will definitely be able to as well. These servers should be in the same league.

Andrew Clear.1750:

Johje Holan.4607:

selan.8354:

really just put the t1 in 1 league. i was on fa since the start and dont wanna move because we are forced to fight t1.

Honestly, this would probably be best.

League 1: BG, SoR, JQ
League 2: #4-#9
League 3: #10-#15
League 4: #16-#24

Dumbest idea. This would just benefit TC. Suck it up and be in the 1-6 league.

Man, you all complain too kitten much. Either participate or don’t. I don’t care if I get stomped during the season, I am still gonna play and have fun. And I do believe that getting stomped is more fun than doing the stomping.

Well my money is on SBI to get in the gold league so Andrew you’ll soon find out. I hope we get an SBI/Mag/SoS matchup in next two weeks.

But having played against all the servers listed in the last few weeks I would love a TC/FA/SoS/Mag/SBI/EB group. And TC is much closer to the rest and much more fun to play against than say JQ (ranked 3) is.

Vi Au.8341:

well it looks like there will be some competition for the last spot of gold tier between sbi sos and mag cuze i know most mag would rather have to fight blobs than not fight at all.

You’re oh so right

Shads.9468:

selan.8354:

i can siege up garrison all i want . that blob is in within 30 seconds then second gate another 30 seconds, than boom done, the rest of the bl will dissapear within 10 min max.
we never wanted to fight t1 never ever, as our guilds like good fights. no we are stuck with this and its terrible. we cant even beat tc at all.

Every single T1/t2 server I’ve fought has one big glaring problem: They’re collectively dumb as rocks. Trust me, theres plenty of fun to be had in WvW even when facing blobs by making them look really really dumb (not hard). Want to see how Maguuma handles a JQ group on a paper garrison whilst outmanned? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBCkq62-gQM

I read your post and though “Bony” – then I read your name