Guild Wars 2

Backround: I’m a developer and understand the answer to this might be technical in nature. I’m assuming the sheer amount of hit detection becomes too great for the servers to handle. ArenaNet has a world-class technical background and I’d love to hear insight on this topic. But for the sake of discussion, let’s assume that is not the reason.

Consistently I see people complaining about two things:

- Inability to defend keeps vs a zerg
- Zergs dominating the WvW scene and generally being unfun

I play on Yak’s Bend and consistently get into small “Havok Groups” only to run into a zerg and die. To me, both of these issues would be solved if targets no longer had a max target limit. If 100 people tried to go through a choke point and we had 3 Elementalists bombing it, and wells ticking… well, suddenly that’s not viable. Suddenly you have to find other ways to win.

The idea here is that if every server has 100 (arbitrary number, I think it’s 300?) people, the goal shouldn’t be to get 100 v 100 fights. The goal should be to split those people up in efficient ways to win on multiple fronts. I think the “ideal” WvW state is to have havok groups a plenty with 5v5 or 10v10 skirmishes happening all over the map in organic ways. Guardian walls help prevent arrow carts, heavy AOE from Ele/Necro help defend chokes, etc etc. To me, we should be designing systems that punish zerging, not reward it. The less empowered small groups feel in their contribution, the more people will get driven away from WvW. Then you have a mega-power like BG emerge. Just a mass of people consistently zerging. And go figure — now a lot of them are quitting because “wvw is dead”, etc.

I personally really enjoy WvW and would really like to have a meaningful way to do small-scale skirmishes that are organic (e.g. Not some 10v10 arena). I wouldn’t mind GvG making a comeback from GW1, of course, but I would really like to make the best of this system.

TL;DR Remove target limit on skills to punish zerging instead of rewarding it.

ANYWAYS. Thoughts/discussion?

100% agree.

People should be punished for stacking on top of each other like mindless lemmings paying no attention to positioning.

Target limits make zerging mindless & chokes irrelevant.

100% agree too.

the whole point of there being an aoe cap is because having to calculate boon/condition duration and damage for a higher number of players would bog down the server. this has been discussed pretty much since the game came out and anet hasn’t show any interest in changing it

Spicyhash.7605:

the whole point of there being an aoe cap is because having to calculate boon/condition duration and damage for a higher number of players would bog down the server. this has been discussed pretty much since the game came out and anet hasn’t show any interest in changing it

I think a lot of what he said is going to be part of the reason for this cap. Servers would probably implode trying to process all of that, they already have a hard time when its just a big zerg appearing next to another big zerg lol.. Battles in SM that are zerg v zerg, basically all you can do is press 1 and hope your skill works because none of the others will..

While I agree it would be nice for a smaller group to be able to do more damage to a larger group, I have to also say that if I am playing with a 20 person group and an elementalist meteors can get all of them, it is going to be bad news lol. Too much damage, imagine 50 people with 15+ eles meteoring that 20 man group, normally it would spread the damage out a lot because of the 5 man cap, but with that, my whole 20 man group would get downed in seconds if we didn’t manage to get out of it.

It would further promote the “pirate ship meta” in my opinion, I would rather them focus on making front line more viable again without people having to run Nomads to survive on guardians lol.

GW2 treated AoE like a standard skill. AoE should have been VERY limited and basically a single elite skill choice per class with some exceptions. Had most skills been single target, the skill lag present in the game now would be non existent at these population levels.

I doubt AoE will be as profilific if there is a GW3.

JediSange.1645:

Backround: I’m a developer and understand the answer to this might be technical in nature. I’m assuming the sheer amount of hit detection becomes too great for the servers to handle. ArenaNet has a world-class technical background and I’d love to hear insight on this topic. But for the sake of discussion, let’s assume that is not the reason.

Consistently I see people complaining about two things:

- Inability to defend keeps vs a zerg
- Zergs dominating the WvW scene and generally being unfun

I play on Yak’s Bend and consistently get into small “Havok Groups” only to run into a zerg and die. To me, both of these issues would be solved if targets no longer had a max target limit. If 100 people tried to go through a choke point and we had 3 Elementalists bombing it, and wells ticking… well, suddenly that’s not viable. Suddenly you have to find other ways to win.

The idea here is that if every server has 100 (arbitrary number, I think it’s 300?) people, the goal shouldn’t be to get 100 v 100 fights. The goal should be to split those people up in efficient ways to win on multiple fronts. I think the “ideal” WvW state is to have havok groups a plenty with 5v5 or 10v10 skirmishes happening all over the map in organic ways. Guardian walls help prevent arrow carts, heavy AOE from Ele/Necro help defend chokes, etc etc. To me, we should be designing systems that punish zerging, not reward it. The less empowered small groups feel in their contribution, the more people will get driven away from WvW. Then you have a mega-power like BG emerge. Just a mass of people consistently zerging. And go figure — now a lot of them are quitting because “wvw is dead”, etc. As for AOE, imagine you have a group of 50 people all hitting 50 people..Hence siege, immovable by a zerg/blob.

I personally really enjoy WvW and would really like to have a meaningful way to do small-scale skirmishes that are organic (e.g. Not some 10v10 arena). I wouldn’t mind GvG making a comeback from GW1, of course, but I would really like to make the best of this system.

TL;DR Remove target limit on skills to punish zerging instead of rewarding it.

ANYWAYS. Thoughts/discussion?

the problem is that people naturally gravitate to bigger groups, big fights look fun and can be exciting when it devolves into large skirmishes that ebb and flow. This is the promise that WVW offes over battlegrounds and arenas. If humans are attracted to this gameplay the last thing as a game designer would want to do is to try and block this, instead they need to guide and compliment his behavior. The only problem with large scale fights is zerg balling, and that’s where strong siege weapons can come in – make siege weapons absolutely deadly to big groups, only hit players, are powerful, cheap to build, but very fragile.

ESO is another wvw game that has problems with xerg-balling, compounded with a poorer game engine, exact same issues.

Another reason is because otherwise people would just spam AoEs (especially boon corrupt) and collide zergs into each other (collusion) for drop farming.

There’s a reason why stationary siege exists that hits multiple players.

As it is now, many AoE skills are unbalanced due to the combination of recharge, activation, and damage. If you look at a vanilla GW2 skill such as Meteor Shower with its large 3.75 second activationtime and moderate 20 recharge that’s something that is on a squishy 11K base HP light armor class OR Rangers’ Barrage with a hefty 30 recharge and activation there’s a drawback to each skill. Now we have AoEs that are near instant that recharge quicker such as Berserker’s Scorched Earth or Gunflame and skills such as Revenants’ Phase Smash/Drop the Hammer which double as blast finishers.

Also once you remove the target limit , Necromancers’ unblockable marks and boon corruption wells (that double as dark fields for life steals with whirling and projectile attacks) become even more ridiculous.

I believe the limits were put in place to counter the effects of lag/culling.

Yep people QQ about stealth, condi, etc but the real issue with WvW is the AoE spam. It nukes performance and lowers the skill bar. The cap while not an ideal solution is a barely workable one.

I don’t think AoE cap removal would actually incentivise spread forces. It would probably do a lot to encourage stacking, as well. Yeah you have 50 people getting hit by a single meteor but you also have 50 people standing in a healing AoE and benefiting from it.

If your goal is to create a more interesting battlefield, and to do that you want to encourage people to split up, I think a better strategy would be to have greater distance between objectives. They did this in DBL, by both directly increasing the size of the map relative to Alpine, and also by making objectives much larger.

DBL strike teams would actually use large groups as the main offensive body, while also having support teams deal with secondary objectives like camps, shrines, sentries and yaks. The keeps were actually big enough that you needed to send dedicated teams to cut off yaks.

Reward zerging? What in the game reward zerging?

Last I checked 10 groups of 5 peeps running around capping everything across 3 borders is completely impossible to control with a single 50 man zerg on one border. Sure each individual group will loose if they face that zerg, but that’s pretty irrelevant isnt it?

Tactics punish zerging.

That’s all we need. When it comes to the AoE limit, it’s a combat mechanic equal to everyone. It has little to do with why zerging is so strong. In fact, I would wager that in 80% of a fight you probably wont even reach the AoE limit due to skill range and players moving in/out of it. It’s combo fields, support skills and passive AoE buffs that make zerging in one spot strong.

I don’t agree with removing the target cap, but having a buff that increases it by a bit for groups that fighting outnumbered fights would be nice.
I mentioned this in the past somewhere. It would give smaller skilled groups a better chance at wiping blobs and hopefully encourage more small scale fights.

blob wars is kinda why i don’t even go into wvw anymore..

Straegen.2938:

GW2 treated AoE like a standard skill. AoE should have been VERY limited and basically a single elite skill choice per class with some exceptions. Had most skills been single target, the skill lag present in the game now would be non existent at these population levels.

I doubt AoE will be as profilific if there is a GW3.

How about no?

I cant imagine a game where all the abilities are just single target.. it would make the game unbearably boring…

If you think the lag is bad now, remove limit and then tell me how long it takes before you can move again.

removing the limit would encourage blob wars and also make WvW much less fun for a lot of players. There is no good reason why 5-10 elementalists and mesmers should be able to completely stop and/or wipe a 50+ man zerg by putting all of their AoEs in a choke point. At the same time, if target limits were removed this would also buff the zerg by allowing a single player to buff the entire zerg with whatever buff they have. This makes it even easier to keep boons up 100% of the time as you would only have to worry about 1 person using the skill at a time, so you would always have someone where it isn’t on cooldown. Portals without limits would be kittening broken if the mesmer manages to get into a keep or hell even into SM and hide successfully. They could portal an entire zerg inside the first or second set of walls and then the walls are useless. This just introduces more problems than keeping the limit at 10

JediSange.1645:

Backround: I’m a developer and understand the answer to this might be technical in nature. I’m assuming the sheer amount of hit detection becomes too great for the servers to handle. ArenaNet has a world-class technical background and I’d love to hear insight on this topic. But for the sake of discussion, let’s assume that is not the reason.

Consistently I see people complaining about two things:

- Inability to defend keeps vs a zerg
- Zergs dominating the WvW scene and generally being unfun

I play on Yak’s Bend and consistently get into small “Havok Groups” only to run into a zerg and die. To me, both of these issues would be solved if targets no longer had a max target limit. If 100 people tried to go through a choke point and we had 3 Elementalists bombing it, and wells ticking… well, suddenly that’s not viable. Suddenly you have to find other ways to win.

The idea here is that if every server has 100 (arbitrary number, I think it’s 300?) people, the goal shouldn’t be to get 100 v 100 fights. The goal should be to split those people up in efficient ways to win on multiple fronts. I think the “ideal” WvW state is to have havok groups a plenty with 5v5 or 10v10 skirmishes happening all over the map in organic ways. Guardian walls help prevent arrow carts, heavy AOE from Ele/Necro help defend chokes, etc etc. To me, we should be designing systems that punish zerging, not reward it. The less empowered small groups feel in their contribution, the more people will get driven away from WvW. Then you have a mega-power like BG emerge. Just a mass of people consistently zerging. And go figure — now a lot of them are quitting because “wvw is dead”, etc.

I personally really enjoy WvW and would really like to have a meaningful way to do small-scale skirmishes that are organic (e.g. Not some 10v10 arena). I wouldn’t mind GvG making a comeback from GW1, of course, but I would really like to make the best of this system.

TL;DR Remove target limit on skills to punish zerging instead of rewarding it.

ANYWAYS. Thoughts/discussion?

You can’t “punish zerging” in a mode designed for zergs primarily.

The idea doesn’t force or encourage players to not zerg. If anything, it will work against the small groups because players will just zerg up more for protection and aoe things in seconds. Essentially this will create a much worse aoe “nuke” arms race instead.

Yes, you run into groups of various sizes, but small skirmishes happen all the time.

Players complaining need to get better organized and use better tactics.

Bolded part- As a game developer you should try to understand the premise of rvr. The main appeal of wvw is the mass battles, but there needs to be limitations in how “things” function, such as aoe limits… As is, wvw is plagued with aoe attacks and support is undervalued, so maybe look to improve support roles as opposed to add even more damage.

Vova.2640:

How about no?

I cant imagine a game where all the abilities are just single target.. it would make the game unbearably boring…

Keep in mind that I am not talking about short range cleave or piercing just AoE spam particularly ranged AoE spam. Most MMOs do not have excessive AoE because it creates problems at every turn. GW2 has learned this lesson in spades. Lets face it, GW2 has become mostly a game of chucking grenades which has lowered skill and created immense lag.

Without the massive amount of AoE in the game, it is likley they could double the population per map and balance out melee ranged much better.

Spicyhash.7605:

the whole point of there being an aoe cap is because having to calculate boon/condition duration and damage for a higher number of players would bog down the server. this has been discussed pretty much since the game came out and anet hasn’t show any interest in changing it

I think this deserves additional attention… it is not that they won’t change it… more than likely it is because they realistically can’t. With todays computers calculation speed is still ultimately a problem that can only be solved with money or breaking the problem into trivial problems.

However, the damage caps are already problems that can not be realistically divided because they are specific to every character. Even if they theoretically could be divided it would be such a cost prohibitive measure in a game of this scale that they will likely never completely address it. Every time they even slightly increase an ability’s target cap that has an exponential ripple effect when that ability starts to proc different effects on more people (sigils, runes, traits etc.) for every packet of incoming or outgoing damage and healing (or pretty much any effect at all, take knockback for example that has to reposition a character which could move the character to a position where even more procs get triggered on it everything is connected).

I am certain some pretty kitten smart people spend a non-trivial amount of time and effort running math to find the best cost to performance ratio at the time… and the only reason to go through that again is in the event of a complete and significant hardware swap on the backend (and this is entirely ignoring client side bottlenecks of people running this game on toasters, although vast majority of calculations are I am sure done on the server side). They have no reason to refresh their entire hardware stack just to have a chance to tweak some damage caps a bit.

Blaqatak.1395:

100% agree.

People should be punished for stacking on top of each other like mindless lemmings paying no attention to positioning.

Target limits make zerging mindless & chokes irrelevant.

You blame the players for a dev created combat system where “turtling” is required for skills to be useful because that’s how abilities operate?

Never had this problem in city of heroes because we are able to target with support, support skills lasted longer than 3 seconds so players could move around with extra buffs and we had many ways to bust up stacking without aoe spam.

The op wants more aoe spam, but the game needs less aoe spam and more of an emphasis on support skills like better healing and such…

Lets say for pure theory – x people with area attacks vs y people with area attacks.
To make things simpler let’s assume x=y (same numbers)
So with 5 effect cap we need to make x*5 calculations for damage done by side A and x*5 calculations done by side B.
So 2*5*x = 10*x calculations.
Without area cap – that’s x*x for side A and x*x for side B
that’s 2*x^2

Soo, numbers for 50v50 (max squad size)

(2*x^2) / (2*5*x)

5000 / 500

That’s basically 10 times more computing power needed

But let’s say it’s a 3-way SM-fight – similar rules apply:

50v50v50

3*(x^3) / (3*5*X )

375000 / 750

That’s basically 500 times more computing power needed.

JediSange.1645:

Backround: I’m a developer and understand the answer to this might be technical in nature. I’m assuming the sheer amount of hit detection becomes too great for the servers to handle. ArenaNet has a world-class technical background and I’d love to hear insight on this topic. But for the sake of discussion, let’s assume that is not the reason.

Consistently I see people complaining about two things:

- Inability to defend keeps vs a zerg
- Zergs dominating the WvW scene and generally being unfun

I play on Yak’s Bend and consistently get into small “Havok Groups” only to run into a zerg and die. To me, both of these issues would be solved if targets no longer had a max target limit. If 100 people tried to go through a choke point and we had 3 Elementalists bombing it, and wells ticking… well, suddenly that’s not viable. Suddenly you have to find other ways to win.

The idea here is that if every server has 100 (arbitrary number, I think it’s 300?) people, the goal shouldn’t be to get 100 v 100 fights. The goal should be to split those people up in efficient ways to win on multiple fronts. I think the “ideal” WvW state is to have havok groups a plenty with 5v5 or 10v10 skirmishes happening all over the map in organic ways. Guardian walls help prevent arrow carts, heavy AOE from Ele/Necro help defend chokes, etc etc. To me, we should be designing systems that punish zerging, not reward it. The less empowered small groups feel in their contribution, the more people will get driven away from WvW. Then you have a mega-power like BG emerge. Just a mass of people consistently zerging. And go figure — now a lot of them are quitting because “wvw is dead”, etc.

I personally really enjoy WvW and would really like to have a meaningful way to do small-scale skirmishes that are organic (e.g. Not some 10v10 arena). I wouldn’t mind GvG making a comeback from GW1, of course, but I would really like to make the best of this system.

TL;DR Remove target limit on skills to punish zerging instead of rewarding it.

ANYWAYS. Thoughts/discussion?

They stated in the past that its a technical limitation, simply put, the networking and servers can’t handle it. Look at what happens now when there is a 3 way battle at SMC on triple qued EBG, imagine that, worse by x100, that is, if you’ll be able to stay connected and play at all.

Bright wizards ruined W:AR. Elementalists and necromancers would ruin WvW.

As stated above the reason for the 5 target limit is technical in nature.

Theorizing on what might happen if we could affect it:

From what I’ve heard from those that played WvW at launch, there was no target limit, and it created a different kind of blob meta, where everyone was stacking on water fields, to blast healing so nobody died. So removing the target limit might have a completely different outcome than expected.

I’ve before suggested linking the Outnumbered "buff" to give increased number of targets on abilities. Anywhere from 7-10 targets total. This "probably" (Since I have no technical numbers) would work from a technical point of view. But would let people affect more players, both defensively and offensively, when the enemy has larger numbers than you. Stand your Ground affecting 10 friendlies instead of 5, Fear Me! affecting 10 rather than 5 etc.

This might make outnumbered water-field spam a thing, dunno how effective it would have been. I don’t think this would effect server performance, since if you’re outnumbered you’re probably less than 40 players in the map.

On the whole I agree with those that comment that this game has way too much AoE damage on too short cool-downs. And if ANet toned down the amount of AoE’s, or put them on long cool-downs, or elite skills etc (instead of on skill #2 and #3 etc) this would become less a problem.

There are alot of cleaves and red circles /aoe, if Anet reduced the spamming, by making less cleaves and less aoe, maybe some more aoeish classes could get their number of targets increased, also would mean less LAG WARS…. and skills needed to be casted with more carefully instead of spam to be noob friendly gameplay…

Remove AoE cap and you punish smaller groups not bigger groups.

1 necro well on a Zerg of 50 would probably 1 shot the necro from retal, and probably a lot of other AoE skills meaning everyone would have to run single target focus to avoid killing themselves.

If i Have 50 people dropping all aoes on a group of 25 people, the 25 people will be 1 shot because of the lack of AoE cap.

This ‘stacking like lemmings’ concept just shows a lack of understanding. The melee has to stay tight to reduce damage done to the melee.

It would make the current GvG Ball comp single target focus meta in pug groups which is absolutely boring, more people would quit and no one would bother – empty game

oh….and game would be unplayable… with the lag lol…. lightson.2310 no one would die cause servers would crash at the first spams

So you feel that 3 people should be able to defend a keep or whatever vs 50+ people? Thats just stupid not to mention siege is here for that purpose.

Its proven that people want the big fights. Thats also why the servers are linked now.

You are small minority, youre the ones who need to adapt.

Anet should just rent out the pixar or dreamworks servers that do the rendering for the animations, apparently they got some serious horsepower

It is because it is a technical limitation. They created a game mode but never bothered to make sure they had the hardware/software to handle it. So they throttle it so it doesn’t overload the servers. Otherwise everytime a zerg got hit with a boon ripping well, the servers would explode.

I have played games with multiple iterations of aoe limits. I’ve played with unlimited heal AOE, unlimited damage AOE, combination of both, etc.

AOE limitations do not serve to encourage or discourage zerging. They simply determine the density of the zerg.

Just changing AoE limits doesn’t immedately cause people to want to spread out and hit multiple objectives. It just makes people stand ten feet to the left when they zerg.

Encouraging splits means creating incentives for manned versus unmanned defense, and limiting instant travel severely. Moreso than that, it required meaningful objectives to defend. WvW’s objectives are meaningless by design. The mode is built specifically to encourage giant zerg battles first and foremost, not to simulate a working battlefield. “more fights” is an obviously higher design priority than “meaningful objectives” because WvW is the single session popcorn version of a PvP siege game.

Expecting meaningful tactical considerations in WvW is like expecting supply line considerations in battlefield. The game simply isn’t designed around it. It’s designed for players to constantly have some massive epic fight they can run to within three minutes, not for those fights to have any long term consequences.

JediSange.1645:

Backround: I’m a developer and understand the answer to this might be technical in nature. I’m assuming the sheer amount of hit detection becomes too great for the servers to handle. ArenaNet has a world-class technical background and I’d love to hear insight on this topic. But for the sake of discussion, let’s assume that is not the reason.

The engine can’t handle it, GW2 is built on a modified GW1 engine. It looks pretty but is horribly inefficient. Anets technical expertise isn’t that good.

PopeUrban.2578:

… The mode is built specifically to encourage giant zerg battles first and foremost, not to simulate a working battlefield. “more fights” is an obviously higher design priority than “meaningful objectives” because WvW is the single session popcorn version of a PvP siege game. …

Man, I just love reading your posts ! >_< Can I subscribe to your newsletter ?

joneirikb.7506:

PopeUrban.2578:

… The mode is built specifically to encourage giant zerg battles first and foremost, not to simulate a working battlefield. “more fights” is an obviously higher design priority than “meaningful objectives” because WvW is the single session popcorn version of a PvP siege game. …

Man, I just love reading your posts ! >_< Can I subscribe to your newsletter ?

morrolan.9608:

The engine can’t handle it, GW2 is built on a modified GW1 engine. It looks pretty but is horribly inefficient. Anets technical expertise isn’t that good.

Actually for an MMO it is a pretty efficient server engine. To my knowledge no game out there has dynamic positional combat on this scale with this many AoE skills firing.

I still fundamentally believe their base problem was putting far too much AoE into the game.

Biggest reason is that no target limit would melt the servers.

Secondary reason is that removing the target limit wouldn’t exactly have the effect you’re anticipating. While you’re right that it would allow a small number of people to do damage to a large group, this would simply encourage retal stacking for zergs. If an ele dropped lava font and immediately ate 50 hits of retal per tick…you’d have a very dead ele. The sheer size of groups would make attacking them completely suicidal.

Not only retal stacking, but also create zergs of eles & necros… which isn’t good either.

You have to remember that if you increase target limits,that will be broad scope.So it wouldn’t matter if your havoc team had unlimited targeting ,the zerg pounding on you would also have unlimited targeting.So the whole issue becomes moot. Just another power creep.AOE’s are limited to 5 targets for that reason .If you go to single target system then it becomes a long range pew pew game . As a ranger druid , I wouldn’t even want that to happen. As for being a havoc group getting beat up by big blobs,YB isn’t the only server dealing with that and most certainly the least justified to complain about it.

Straegen.2938:

morrolan.9608:

The engine can’t handle it, GW2 is built on a modified GW1 engine. It looks pretty but is horribly inefficient. Anets technical expertise isn’t that good.

Actually for an MMO it is a pretty efficient server engine. To my knowledge no game out there has dynamic positional combat on this scale with this many AoE skills firing.

I still fundamentally believe their base problem was putting far too much AoE into the game.

ESO has lots of aoes and dropped the restriction a while ago.

morrolan.9608:

Straegen.2938:

morrolan.9608:

The engine can’t handle it, GW2 is built on a modified GW1 engine. It looks pretty but is horribly inefficient. Anets technical expertise isn’t that good.

Actually for an MMO it is a pretty efficient server engine. To my knowledge no game out there has dynamic positional combat on this scale with this many AoE skills firing.

I still fundamentally believe their base problem was putting far too much AoE into the game.

ESO has lots of aoes and dropped the restriction a while ago.

Lol that’s because ESO lacks players.

Jayne.9251:

morrolan.9608:

Straegen.2938:

morrolan.9608:

The engine can’t handle it, GW2 is built on a modified GW1 engine. It looks pretty but is horribly inefficient. Anets technical expertise isn’t that good.

Actually for an MMO it is a pretty efficient server engine. To my knowledge no game out there has dynamic positional combat on this scale with this many AoE skills firing.

I still fundamentally believe their base problem was putting far too much AoE into the game.

ESO has lots of aoes and dropped the restriction a while ago.

Lol that’s because ESO lacks players.

The game actually seems to be doing quite well.

And its funny making that comment given the decline in WvW population.

well I don’t agree about skins having no limit cap I do feel like they should all have different limit caps
like x skill as a cap of 5 while y skill has a caps of 3, etc.

morrolan.9608:

Jayne.9251:

morrolan.9608:

Straegen.2938:

morrolan.9608:

The engine can’t handle it, GW2 is built on a modified GW1 engine. It looks pretty but is horribly inefficient. Anets technical expertise isn’t that good.

Actually for an MMO it is a pretty efficient server engine. To my knowledge no game out there has dynamic positional combat on this scale with this many AoE skills firing.

I still fundamentally believe their base problem was putting far too much AoE into the game.

ESO has lots of aoes and dropped the restriction a while ago.

Lol that’s because ESO lacks players.

The game actually seems to be doing quite well.

And its funny making that comment given the decline in WvW population.

Last time I played there were five players on the map. I logged.