Then why have I never had a problem doing it? The second you see them hit the floor, you immobilize them. Works every single time. I don’t know what you’re doing wrong that you can’t do it when everyone else can. Maybe your timing is off.
You seem to be a bit slow so let me explain this more.
An elementalist enter downstate. As soon as he enters downstate ALL conditions are cleared. He also gets 1 second of INVULNERABILITY, meaning you can’t apply immobilize. During that one second of invulnerability, he can use vapor form, which grants invulnerability for its duration. And remember: You can’t immobilize someone who is invulnerable. Since he is invulnerable, he also ignores any other form of CC, such as line of warding. The elementalist, who is invulnerable, proceeds to enter he keep, while still invulnerable. And again: You can’t immobilize someone while they are invulnerable.
As you can see, there is no point from the moment the elementalist enters downed, until after vapor form drops, that you can immobilize him. The elementalists youve been fighting are just bads that don’t know what they’re doing.
“Downed State” itself is simply bad. It’s yet another thing that ANet has to balance and, well, they are incapable of balancing simple things so the last thing they should be doing is using new mechanics that only add to the complexity of balancing between professions.
He’s been posting stuff about classes that he hates a lot right now. Few posts below you’ll see him accusing of a thief of hacking (something about going 6 consecutive dodges and long stealths and stuff we all know thieves are capable of without hacking).
And man up. A few eles got away and you all lose your minds?
Get out of WvW. The time you spent crying for that prey that got away (because of the inherent theme of the class) ain’t exactly putting up higher scores for your server.
Less whining, more pew pew.
“Conversation enriches the understanding, but solitude is the school of genius.”
- Sir Edward Gibbon
Anytime a thief complains about another class its funny.
The only time I really have fun with mist form from downed is watching how many goofy people will take the time too spike someone in the middle of a zerg battle were they are getting aoed too death then popping up at the last second making them chase you back into the aoes.
Anytime a thief complains about another class its funny.
The only time I really have fun with mist form from downed is watching how many goofy people will take the time too spike someone in the middle of a zerg battle were they are getting aoed too death then popping up at the last second making them chase you back into the aoes.
The same can be said of Elementalists, Mesmers, Guardians, and Rangers.
Really, the only classes in this game that have a legitimate complaint are Engineers and Warriors. And even Warriors it’s more an issue with sPvP than anywhere else.
A thief can stealth in combat and walk through the gate without notice. This is overpowered and should be removed from the game. Same logic OP is using, or lack of.
Can he do it whilst in downed state?
Could an Ele getting mist form for 8+ seconds to get somewhere without notice?
(like thiefs have +8s stealth)
This is a discussion about the downed state of Elementalists in WvW. Even if a downed Thief had 8s+ of stealth, he still would not be able to get inside.
I can just say we could open a discussion about “living” chars and talk about the long stealth u got..
This post is just a “plznerf” post, just use immo-skills, problem solved
If you say u can’t for w/e reason, i suggest to look on youtube for advice or fourm, enough ppl made posts about this and how to counter this easily.. Just dont be lazy and learn..
Denied | 5.9k PvP Games | PvP Rank: 236 | 8.6k hours | 9 Legendaries | Still Bad.
Then why have I never had a problem doing it? The second you see them hit the floor, you immobilize them. Works every single time. I don’t know what you’re doing wrong that you can’t do it when everyone else can. Maybe your timing is off.
You seem to be a bit slow so let me explain this more.
An elementalist enter downstate. As soon as he enters downstate ALL conditions are cleared. He also gets 1 second of INVULNERABILITY, meaning you can’t apply immobilize. During that one second of invulnerability, he can use vapor form, which grants invulnerability for its duration. And remember: You can’t immobilize someone who is invulnerable. Since he is invulnerable, he also ignores any other form of CC, such as line of warding. The elementalist, who is invulnerable, proceeds to enter he keep, while still invulnerable. And again: You can’t immobilize someone while they are invulnerable.
As you can see, there is no point from the moment the elementalist enters downed, until after vapor form drops, that you can immobilize him. The elementalists youve been fighting are just bads that don’t know what they’re doing.
Did you know we can’t cross a Line of Wrading while Vapor form (downed state)?
We arent that invulnerable, it’s not like we have stability, but indd direct immo-skills have no effects..
That’s why ppl need to learn to immo right before ele’s drop (rangers are pro at it, no mistake)
cheers
Denied | 5.9k PvP Games | PvP Rank: 236 | 8.6k hours | 9 Legendaries | Still Bad.
A thief can stealth in combat and walk through the gate without notice. This is overpowered and should be removed from the game. Same logic OP is using, or lack of.
Can he do it whilst in downed state?
Could an Ele getting mist form for 8+ seconds to get somewhere without notice?
(like thiefs have +8s stealth)
This is a discussion about the downed state of Elementalists in WvW. Even if a downed Thief had 8s+ of stealth, he still would not be able to get inside.
I’ll repeat what i said in the other topic. Class balance currently exists of armor/hp, traits, skills, weapon damage modifiers, and downed state. It’s the complete picture that makes the profession. Not one or the other apsects. Some have better downed state, but have worse time surviving burst attacks (ele’s, low armor/hp). If you nerf ele’s downed state escapism, i want Stealth stomping also nerfed. (requires no skill, it should make you visible since it’s an attack, but it doesnt, and only thiefs can do it so by op logic it’s op). And while we are at it, Shadow refuge basically grants free access to portals. Thiefs have an ‘alive’ way to get in tower, Ele’s a downed state one. If you nerf ele ones, i want Shadow refuge nerfed as well. As long as you are cloacked, you cannot access portal. Deal? Nope, thought so…
Exactly! But ppl just don’t seem to understand it yet .. All they want is to get Ele nerf yet again..
Denied | 5.9k PvP Games | PvP Rank: 236 | 8.6k hours | 9 Legendaries | Still Bad.
You do know immobilize works right? Whenever I down an ele with my guardian I Immediately hit Chains of Light before they get the chance to do anything. Line of Warding also works but not every class can block off an area like that, but every class does have atleast 1 immobilize skill. They try to mist form, float in place for a few seconds, drop, then get stomped. If you can’t immobilize them and secure the kill before they escape, that’s a L2P issue on your part. The same way immobilize also worked on RTL pretty much making ele a free kill if you did it just as they activated the skill since they would be locked out of all of their skills for the duration of the spell. But no, heaven forbid anyone actually use their brain and the skills their class has akittens disposal. lets all cry on the forums till it’s nerfed into oblivion instead. The only thing that does need to be nerfed in this game is a thief’s stealth as unlike the skill you’re kitten ing and moaning about, it doesn’t have a counter to it to stop them from doing it.
I’m getting tired of hearing this because this is not true.
As soon as you enter downed state all conditions are cleared and you receive roughly one second of invulnerability. During that one second they can still use vapor form and you can’t immobilize them because they’re invulnerable. Vapor form bypasses line of warding since they are invulnerable during vapor form.
Do you see the problem with what you said?
Agreed. And further more, the one saying eles entering towers and keeps in downed mode is no problem, says that thief stealth should be nerferd. That makes me just laugh (yes I have a thief, but barely use her). Thiefes are no issue for me at all. Stealth is a L2P issue…
Back on topic: Imho it shouldn’t be possible for eles to enter towers while downed (as long as the walls or gates aren’t broken that is^^). It leaves them with very little risk to hack away in front of the tower and is inconsequent design, when a thief can’t blink in the keep in downed state, a mesmer can’t blink in a keep in downed state (if by any chance he teleports in the right direction). I do not want the eles to lose the skill, just don’t let the get in keeps by using this, that’s all.
I never was able to cross Line of Warding in vapor form LOL
haxors!
Denied | 5.9k PvP Games | PvP Rank: 236 | 8.6k hours | 9 Legendaries | Still Bad.
While defending a keep, you’re basically a deterrent. You can either use siege or try to use your own abilities, but either way it’s usually you and a few defenders against a zerg. At least it is on my server.
So when I get pulled into the zerg with my mesmer, I create a few illusions and try to confuse people while I get away. With my engineer I just die (though I can usually take a few with me before I do.) And with my elemental I have one opportunity to mist form back into the keep. Sometimes I get caught and killed in one shot anyway.
Of course it’s annoying. So’s being ganked by a thief, or steamrolled by a lucky warrior, or whatever. I really don’t see how it’s OP or must be changed.
Of course it’s annoying. So’s being ganked by a thief, or steamrolled by a lucky warrior, or whatever. I really don’t see how it’s OP or must be changed.
In my opinion, it’s slightly unfair as an elementalist can stay near the door to a tower or keep, hurling their attacks and if they’re downed, can go through the door, get picked up and go back out to attack again – creating a circle of immortality.
Do you not think it unfair that the other classes cannot escape death like that? I don’t mind the ability itself, but having it used so that you cannot simply chase after the opponent and finish them off when they de-mist is rather frustrating when it happens multiple times.
It’s not fair that thieves can turn invisible while downed. Ele can’t do that.
It’s not fair that mesmers can summon a phantasm while downed. Ele can’t do that.
It’s not fair that rangers can outheal multiple attackers with their pet heal. Ele can’t do that.
And on…
And on…
And on…..
Better nerf them all to insure class balance.
Yep.
Every day, nothing but the standard, “Whine about something that beat me or kept me from killing someone.” stuff around here.
Any sufficiently advanced skill is indistinguishable from luck.
I will ignore the “you are just wining”-posts, for they do not provide any substantial contribution except some guys trolling and kittening. I am also in favor of not allowing eles to be able to enter towers and keeps while downed. It is not about fairness allone, it is about consequent game design. I’ll explain:
With an ele, mesmer, thief and even necro I can use any teleport to get to the tower. Once I touch the shiny door, I can enter the tower without the need to really step through it. Of course one can also enter a tower while transformed. Now while I am downed all teleports available are preventing me from using the gate. The elementalist however, who has access to the only transform skill while downed (got no issue here) can use that and enter the tower through the shiny door.
Why is this inconsequent? Because the atributes of one skill type changes in the downed mode: teleports. In downed mode one is not allowed to enter the shiny door with teleport in contrast to the normal teleport when not downed. Transforms however lets u keep the ability to use the shiny doors.
To provide a consequent game design, one should either both allow to use the doors or none. Of course that is my personal point of view.
[ROSE] – Fissure of Woe
Chronomancy works, I am proof of it. Now stop asking me questions. Time must be preserved!
Can Thieves use Shadow Escape to get through tower/keep portals? I’ve never actually had an opportunity to try it.
They can’t. Even if you port into the portal, you’ll just stay on top of it – and die.
The only way a downed player can go through a portal is if they use a skill that rallies them temporarily, so this club is exclusive to elementalists and warriors.
I would support this. I’m fine with ele’s going through the door as a last ditch effort to get to safety, but that’s what it should be, a ‘last ditch effort’. Eles being able to mist form through the door to the keep similar to warriors vengencing through it is acceptable, but it would be better if it was the same skill # as the warriors, so you couldn’t immediately vapor as soon as you hit downed state, but would be able to possibly make it to safety if you lasted long enough.
Can Thieves use Shadow Escape to get through tower/keep portals? I’ve never actually had an opportunity to try it.
No, a downed player can not move through tower doors, Warriors and Elementalists are an exception to this rule since their downed skill is actually a “transformation” and does not count as downed.
Of course it’s annoying. So’s being ganked by a thief, or steamrolled by a lucky warrior, or whatever. I really don’t see how it’s OP or must be changed.
In my opinion, it’s slightly unfair as an elementalist can stay near the door to a tower or keep, hurling their attacks and if they’re downed, can go through the door, get picked up and go back out to attack again – creating a circle of immortality.
Do you not think it unfair that the other classes cannot escape death like that? I don’t mind the ability itself, but having it used so that you cannot simply chase after the opponent and finish them off when they de-mist is rather frustrating when it happens multiple times.
No, I honestly don’t think it’s unfair. A thief can appear, nearly kill me, disappear, then come back to finish the job and I have to laugh it off. Being able to zip into a keep doesn’t even cause someone repair fees. It’s just a thing. And it isn’t a circle of immortality unless the keep attack lasts forever. In an attack I’d say I might use it once or twice, given opportunity.
Shortly back Thief Infiltrator Strike was changed to teleport back 1200 range. Ok, fine. How is it that Elemental Vapor running into keeps and self reviving being ignored? Honestly I’m seeing double standards with this.
Anyway, Vapor running into keeps after being downed (warrior or elemental) needs to stop. Players should not be able to use these types of abilities past keep/tower doors from a downed state.
With Infiltrator Strike I never got downed and ran into a Keep/Tower and self revived and rinse and repeat.
Agreed, anything Infiltrator Strike can’t do no other class should be able to do.
Oh hey. This same thread is also in the elementalist forums. I’ll just copy post my response from there.
“We shouldn’t be discouraging the creative use of abilities. It takes away from tactics and strategies that can be used and makes the game less dynamic and interesting.”
You are wrong here. You make the assumption that the more ways you can use the skill the more dynamic the game is which is where you go wrong. Vapor form makes it so that if you want to stop an ele from entering a tower/keep you need to down him quite far away from the keep which is quite inconvenient since it forces players to stand farther away from the gate which means that a larger radius must be guarded in turn spreading out the forces and making it harder to kill the ele and other classes.
However in practice this sort of counter play is not used due to the fact that it is just not worth it and as long as an ele makes it fairly close to the tower without being downed they can make it into the tower. What this does is actually unhealthy for the game because this discourages player interaction with that ele since they will make it into the tower whatever the player does. This lack of interaction makes the game less dynamic and interesting.
I’m playing the world’s tiniest violin for you, bro. I know how difficult it can be to not rub your face against the gate pounding your one key.
“We recognize that the changes to [ele] will essentially remove it from play. In the future,
we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of [ele] that would be viable
but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.” – ANet
Then how is it fair thieves teleport themselves all the time with shortbow, or using exploits in WvW with steal on enemy walls to get infinite stealth? Yes, I’m an Elementalist myself, and I might have frustrated enemies already with my downed vapor form, but tbh, I also got frustrated many times how Thieves can simply escape from any battle without any skill required, only a shortbow.
Riselight [WvW] – Elementalist
Smough The Cruel [WvW] – Warrior
Lol, you do know that this was the case when the game was first released right? And because of that elementalist had the worst downed skills out of any class till anet switched them.
I’m playing the world’s tiniest violin for you, bro. I know how difficult it can be to not rub your face against the gate pounding your one key.
Uh no. The farther away you stand from the gate the more area you have to cover which spreads out your forces and makes it you guessed it, harder to kill not only eles but everyone. A spread out force is also requires more time to react to a surprise attack from an enemy zerg. These trade offs highly outweigh the ability to kill all the eles and is why no one uses them.
I’m playing the world’s tiniest violin for you, bro. I know how difficult it can be to not rub your face against the gate pounding your one key.
Uh no. The farther away you stand from the gate the more area you have to cover which spreads out your forces and makes it you guessed it, harder to kill not only eles but everyone. A spread out force is also requires more time to react to a surprise attack from an enemy zerg. These trade offs highly outweigh the ability to kill all the eles and is why no one uses them.
A bunched up force makes it easier for me to farm you with an AC. Try this amazing new concept I just invented, literally this very second: have people spread out and watch for approaching enemies and then report it back to the main group. I’m going to call these watchers “scouts” for simplicity.
“We recognize that the changes to [ele] will essentially remove it from play. In the future,
we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of [ele] that would be viable
but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.” – ANet
I’m playing the world’s tiniest violin for you, bro. I know how difficult it can be to not rub your face against the gate pounding your one key.
Uh no. The farther away you stand from the gate the more area you have to cover which spreads out your forces and makes it you guessed it, harder to kill not only eles but everyone. A spread out force is also requires more time to react to a surprise attack from an enemy zerg. These trade offs highly outweigh the ability to kill all the eles and is why no one uses them.
A bunched up force makes it easier for me to farm you with an AC. Try this amazing new concept I just invented, literally this very second: have people spread out and watch for approaching enemies and then report it back to the main group. I’m going to call these watchers “scouts” for simplicity.
It doesn’t because you can spam water fields much more effectively in a grouped up formation. Also correct me if I am wrong but siege caps at hitting 20 people at once. Yes you can use scouts to report back to the main group if an enemy zerg is incoming but you will not get enough people to drop what they are doing because a scout spotted a single (or a few) elementalists. It just is not worth it.
A warrior, a guardian, and an elementalist walk into an open field…
The Warrior turns to the guardian and says, “Did you hear something?”
Guardian replies, “No, but how’d the elementalist die?”
For the record, vengeance is a GREAT down skill. Both players down, who would win? the warrior with vengeance and traited =.=
Funny…that’s what a warrior fighting me thought too. However lick wounds ended up being superior as i just watched him die pathetically rooted away from me while i killed his friend
Then why have I never had a problem doing it? The second you see them hit the floor, you immobilize them. Works every single time. I don’t know what you’re doing wrong that you can’t do it when everyone else can. Maybe your timing is off.
You seem to be a bit slow so let me explain this more.
An elementalist enter downstate. As soon as he enters downstate ALL conditions are cleared. He also gets 1 second of INVULNERABILITY, meaning you can’t apply immobilize. During that one second of invulnerability, he can use vapor form, which grants invulnerability for its duration. And remember: You can’t immobilize someone who is invulnerable. Since he is invulnerable, he also ignores any other form of CC, such as line of warding. The elementalist, who is invulnerable, proceeds to enter he keep, while still invulnerable. And again: You can’t immobilize someone while they are invulnerable.
As you can see, there is no point from the moment the elementalist enters downed, until after vapor form drops, that you can immobilize him. The elementalists youve been fighting are just bads that don’t know what they’re doing.
Did you know we can’t cross a Line of Wrading while Vapor form (downed state)?
We arent that invulnerable, it’s not like we have stability, but indd direct immo-skills have no effects..
That’s why ppl need to learn to immo right before ele’s drop (rangers are pro at it, no mistake)
cheers
10k kills in wvw and you still dont even know your own class? After playing my ele in spvp, I can confirm that you CAN pass line of warding in vapor form. Invulnerability basically: Grants stability, Reduces all damage taken to 0, and prevents the application of conditions.
Immobilize is a condition. All conditions are cleared upon entering downed state. Immobilizing an ele prior to him being downed in order to prevent him from entering the keep is a moot point as it will be removed as you down him.
Question: How do you stop an ele from entering a keep when he has -97% immobilize duration?
10k kills in wvw and you still dont even know your own class? After playing my ele in spvp, I can confirm that you CAN pass line of warding in vapor form. Invulnerability basically: Grants stability, Reduces all damage taken to 0, and prevents the application of conditions.
Immobilize is a condition. All conditions are cleared upon entering downed state. Immobilizing an ele prior to him being downed in order to prevent him from entering the keep is a moot point as it will be removed as you down him.
Question: How do you stop an ele from entering a keep when he has -97% immobilize duration?
Can confirm, I vapor-formed past a Line of Warding today. However, I’ve been immobilized in vapor form before even when mashing #2 (don’t ask me how) so it seems there is some way to do this. (might be lag, because my connection is sometimes unstable)
The answer to your question is: the same way you catch a roaming D/P Thief, you (and I paraphrase Anet) “give up and go do something else”.
Not to add fuel to the fire but… I also pick up all my bags on the ground I received from nuking your zerg prior to getting pulled off my ledge while misting back in to the tower. Man I love being an ele!
elementalists have to have something fun. i’m against the, “nerf other classes fun abilities because arenanet has nerfed all the other class fun abilities” viewpoint….
I’m playing the world’s tiniest violin for you, bro. I know how difficult it can be to not rub your face against the gate pounding your one key.
Uh no. The farther away you stand from the gate the more area you have to cover which spreads out your forces and makes it you guessed it, harder to kill not only eles but everyone. A spread out force is also requires more time to react to a surprise attack from an enemy zerg. These trade offs highly outweigh the ability to kill all the eles and is why no one uses them.
A bunched up force makes it easier for me to farm you with an AC. Try this amazing new concept I just invented, literally this very second: have people spread out and watch for approaching enemies and then report it back to the main group. I’m going to call these watchers “scouts” for simplicity.
It doesn’t because you can spam water fields much more effectively in a grouped up formation. Also correct me if I am wrong but siege caps at hitting 20 people at once. Yes you can use scouts to report back to the main group if an enemy zerg is incoming but you will not get enough people to drop what they are doing because a scout spotted a single (or a few) elementalists. It just is not worth it.
ACs hit 50 people, water fields and blast finishers heal 5.
Maybe the servers you fight are poor or something, but where I’m at every defended tower has 3-4 superior ACs and keeps usually have more than that.
As far as scouts being useless, again we’re on wildly different servers. Somebody calls out a moving swarm of badges and the bag hungry lunatics go into a frenzy.
“We recognize that the changes to [ele] will essentially remove it from play. In the future,
we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of [ele] that would be viable
but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.” – ANet
switch it to skill 3, then it is done. I use warrior, and I have to stay alive long enough to activate skill 3. Most of time, I wont have time, because I just get beat to death while I am down.
Anyone who says they can’t immobilize or block it doesn’t know what they’re talking about. It can be stopped. Just because you’re too inept to stop it yourself doesn’t mean it can’t be done.
I find it amazing that people are complaining about eles doing this, when it’s also necros that can do this as well. My necro has 40k HP and I always pop out of the gate, drop 4 wells on the enemy rams (15 seconds of invulnerability basically), kill the rams and a few enemies, and if they manage to start dropping my HP, I pop F1 and walk back in the door – no self rezzing required, usually, either. Consider how much HP a 40k HP necro really has when you have to deplete his normal pool, death shroud pool, and damage through non-stop heals and life stealing.
There are many classes that have the ability to (intelligently) evade being stomped. This is part off the risk involved in trying to capture objectives. If all you’re doing is dropping rams and not utilizing all of the other siege and classes/skills available to you, then this can and will (and should) happen to you. Especially when you’re trying to 2-5 man capture an objective; all it takes is 1 good player to defend sans-arrow carts.
It’s a thief who started this ridiculous thread. Why would you be surprised? Don’t worry they’ll troll Necro forums soon too and try to get you guys nerfed the same way they trolled ele forums till we got nerfed into oblivion.
^True. When my engineer gets downed I don’t even bother trying to rally, just wait for them to spike me so I can res at a wp. That booby trap thing doesn’t help one bit and the rest of the skills are laughable.
Lol, some have a problem with thief skill, so this is the reason why eles (as different to all other professions except warrior) should get the ability to use doors in downed state? Is this balancing? We have 8 professions, not only 2 and the reason u are annoyed by thiefes doesn’t make vapor form in downed state less broke.
[ROSE] – Fissure of Woe
Chronomancy works, I am proof of it. Now stop asking me questions. Time must be preserved!
Lol, some have a problem with thief skill, so this is the reason why eles (as different to all other professions except warrior) should get the ability to use doors in downed state? Is this balancing? We have 8 professions, not only 2 and the reason u are annoyed by thiefes doesn’t make vapor form in downed state less broke.
Edit: okay I won’t post inflammatory comments because it doesn’t contribute to the discussion.
People point to Thieves because they have the best escape mechanism that lets them run away from everything when roaming. There is no way to catch a competent Thief who isn’t in a massively outnumbered situation (and I say this as someone who roams on a Thief on a T2 server).
If such a ridiculous escape mechanism can be tolerated – Anet said (and I paraphrase): “just ignore him and move on because you will never be able to catch the Thief” – then how is the Ele mist form state broken at all?
Also, does it really matter that the Ele can mist form into a keep? I don’t see people going “oh wow their vapor form is so OP, let’s all play an Ele to defend keeps”, but I do see a lot of roaming Thieves…
. Man I love being an ele!