Guild Wars 2

Un-official server alliances ruin the WvW experience for the server thats being ganged up on and killed outside spawn from both chokes, for me this is very bad game design there needs to be somthing added to combat this type of play.

No thats how wars work.

I wouldn’t be sure that it’s an alliance. Both opponents are red to them, it’s hard to tell who is who when you’re in the middle of combat.

From experience, if your server is a pushover, they both just want your cake and will mow you and the other server down to get it.

Our garrison has seen more Ferguson’s Crossing and Denovah’s Rest than it’s actually seen Kainengs (us) in it. Sad, but true.

if you want to play smaller stuff, go spvp i would even prefer 1000k instenad of 500

obviously you have not had this happen to your server and it was the strongest server and weakest server ganging up we are still second place, i like WvW but when another server shows up and defends the other servers keep it ruins it.

Every spawn point has at least 3 ways out and each server is only fighting against 2 other servers. You do the math.

Guess you never played DOAC imagine if the choke points were giant walls with the only way through being a door. Course in that game certain classes could at least scale keep walls and take out defenders inside. That would be a slight game changer in GW2 if they added it.

well idk how the servers can have a unoffical alliance since they cant talk to eachother and the server matches change everyday but when your server or an opposing server is generally weak both servers gang up just to clear out the weaklings but um best way to solve this is to have a 1v1 match up instead of 1v1v1 or another way i suppose is to have the map that the server with control of the northern territories has a higher pop cap and the 2 invading servers have a slightly smaller cap but actually work together in a 2v1 match up and since each server has a map where they control the northern territories everyone can have the feel of either working together with another server or defending an attack from 2 servers..of course this will require the defending server to actually work together instead of zerging all around like dumb kitten and since there is the elemental map? i think thats what its called (the only map that differs from the other 3) that can be your 1v1v1 server for people who like to have 1v1v1 situations

just my thoughts

well since server transfers are free i took the liberity of changing to the servers we were fighting and not suprised to see them saying

guy one – dont attack red we have alliance
guy two – ok
guy three – help red at bluelake keep them in there spawn

Its fine.
Im from Hedge, we havent lost a SINGLE wvwvw yet.
#2-4 keeps changing between 3 servers, so we fight the same 3 over and over.
They have an alliance against us, and we still win every day.

Maybe u guys need to organize better.

oginization lacks in my server theyre so stupid when the go for AB or DB (the keep on the west side) we will get in the outer gates and everyone will zerg to the outer gate on the other side instead of actually going to the inner keep gate..and they seem to not even know there is 2 entrances to the keep istelf (the docks and the back gate north west) its so lame i want a server change but idk what servers have actual orginization and not to mention everytime i try a server change usually the server is full

PowerMind.3694:

well since server transfers are free i took the liberity of changing to the servers we were fighting and not suprised to see them saying

guy one – dont attack red we have alliance
guy two – ok
guy three – help red at bluelake keep them in there spawn

I think transferring servers in order to spy on your enemies plans is a bigger threat to WvWvW then a few people trying to form an “unofficial alliance”.

Server alliances are real.

For the last few cycles, my server has been pitted against the same 2 servers, and every time I’ve done WvWvW I’ve seen very strong implications that the other 2 servers have some sort of alliance against my server. Let’s call them Server A and Server B.

For instance, there have been several times when we’ve attacked a fort owned by Server A on the furthest west of the map, my server controlling most of the middle area to the south, Server A controlling the northern part, and all of a sudden we’re sandwiched by Server B who had to run through miles of either one of our territories to get to the keep we’re attacking, just to defend Server A.

Another example; The other day my server had capped a keep from Server A, again pretty much as far away from Server B’s area of control as possible on that map. In this particular case, the keep was Dreadfall Bay, and Server A went and attacked, and held the big wall on the northern side, while Server B attacked from the southern part.

At the end of this little 1v2, me and a few others were the only ones left defending the inner walls of the keep, and I decided to drop down and kill the ram Server B was trying to build outside the gate. I was hitting it for a good 15 seconds before ANYONE on Server B even attacked me, other than a few minor 100s hits from AoE effects.
After a few of these, I jumped down from the wall on the side, ran around behind them and attacked a few of their players, killing 2 of them before anyone on their team realized that “OH WAIT, he’s not from Server A, he’s one of the defenders! kill him!”.

Before that little 1v2 I wasn’t 100% sure that those 2 servers had an alliance against my server, but now I am 100% sure.

The real question is, can anything actually be done about this sort of shady play, mechanic-wise, or is this just something we have to deal with?

Would love to hear from ANET on this.

Working as intended
As someone said, obviously some of y’all never played DAoC.
I remember back in DAoC this would happen to one of the three realms. Sometimes it would happen for a week or two. Two realms always attacking and keeping the 3rd realm from doing anything. Eventually though it will shift. Its basically allowing players to “police” the action.

Isnt the point of 3factions that there can be alliances?

Cameirus.8407:

Isnt the point of 3factions that there can be alliances?

yes thats exactly the point of it.

A simple solution would be to hide server name for a player. You would still know from which server is if he was defending a keep, but you couldn’t tell when meeting on the ground or even when exiting the keep. So it wouldn’t be possible for two servers to attack a keep because you wouldn’t know if the other server was an ally or not.

Sigh… sore losers, always crying for restrictions. WvWvW is fine. Alliances are part of the game. Night capping is part of the game. It’s free. Why do you want to sterilize it?

Viserion.5130:

Sigh… sore losers, always crying for restrictions. WvWvW is fine. Alliances are part of the game. Night capping is part of the game. It’s free. Why do you want to sterilize it?

^

Viserion.5130:

Sigh… sore losers, always crying for restrictions. WvWvW is fine. Alliances are part of the game. Night capping is part of the game. It’s free. Why do you want to sterilize it?

^

I can see where server alliance hurt the game. The only people that say it doesn’t are the ones winning.

I don’t see to much of this where my server is though.

On a good note every two weeks server will be matched with other servers. So the alliance will only last for two weeks.

Viserion.5130:

Sigh… sore losers, always crying for restrictions. WvWvW is fine. Alliances are part of the game. Night capping is part of the game. It’s free. Why do you want to sterilize it?

^

yes there are some who do that and they need to be punished.

Now often it is a matter of perception and it fells like you are getting attacked by both of them at the same time, but that is becaus of how the maps are made and it is a good thing.

Monday we where in EB with the guild that i am part of Radiant Knights.

The match was Drakkar Lake [DE], Ring of Fire and Ruins of Surmia (my server).

Now Drakkar had taken the middle keep and after a long fight we had manged to fight our way into the inner keep with PUG help.

SO we murder our way up and we are winning when all of a sudden Ring of fire shows up and attacks us from behind. 10 RK members and some pugs slow them down below the lord to buy time for our guild to kill and take the KEEP and then swoop down and murder the invaders.

Now Ring of Fire had attacked us Several times during the day and if you where not pay attention it would look like they where working with Drakkar attacking us where we where weak when we where assaulting Drakkar.

Now the thing is we where attacking Drakkar because they where fighting Ring of Fire so we could sneak in and raid there towers and supplies. Through the eyes of Drakkar it would be the Ruins guys who looked like they where helping the Ring side.

Some times it is only perception, but that is not to say that it dose not happen. If you see some one doing kitten like that and you can prove it with screen shoots then get evidence and report.

Waage.2047:

yes there are some who do that and they need to be punished.

Some times it is only perception, but that is not to say that it dose not happen. If you see some one doing kitten like that and you can prove it with screen shoots then get evidence and report.

Report… what? You can’t report someone for making a strategic decision. There is nothing “wrong” with choosing to temporarily ally with someone in order to destroy someone else.

What have they done that needs to be “punished”? This is a 3 way fight, which inherently allows for things like this to happen. And what’s more… it’s sometimes pretty clever.

Sky.9347:

Report… what? You can’t report someone for making a strategic decision. There is nothing “wrong” with choosing to temporarily ally with someone in order to destroy someone else.

What have they done that needs to be “punished”? This is a 3 way fight, which inherently allows for things like this to happen. And what’s more… it’s sometimes pretty clever.

He’s probably referring to the game wide alliances that exists in some places that coordinate with each other outside of the game to set up WvW no matter that they are on different servers. That’s far from temporary alliances. Temporary alliances in the heat of battle are fine and one of the prime reasons why three faction RvR is so successful and keeps it from getting stagnant.

And i agree with him, people who try to game the system game wide needs to be punished.

Is the server being ganged up on in the lead? If so good, it makes sense.
Is the server being ganged up on in last? If so don’t worry, the inter-server alliance will fall apart.

Something needs to be considered here.

Let’s just use two games where realm versus realm pvp has been used as a central part of the game. Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer Online.

Dark Age of Camelot did it right by having a 3 realm system, which meant that if one realm was getting overwhelmed by another one the third realm would be the factor for the experience to still be enjoyable, because even if the realms did not decide to ally, it would still be a thorn on the backside of the dominating realm and be a deciding factor for the stomped realm of having a chance to make some progress.

Warhammer Online on the other hand used a 2 faction system, Order and Chaos and that made for some horribly lopsided servers, where one of the two factions would dominate horribly and the other faction would just have no chance of an enjoyable experience. People would get tired of getting ganked and being stomped on and would move servers to one where their faction was dominating. This only made the problem worse as it created servers heavily dominated by Order and others heavily dominated by Chaos. The underdog faction would just not go into the pvp areas to avoid getting rolled by the zerg and the dominating side had no one to kill, which destroyed the playing experience for both factions…

DAOC has been very succesful and is still the realm versus realm standard, even though it’s heading for its inevitable end, but Warhammer Online fizzled before it was even succesful and the sad part is that in my opinion was a mechanically and technically superior game. The decision to only have 2 factions doomed the game.

Arena Net has wisely learned from other’s mistakes.

Having 3 factions or armies is a blessing… believe me…

zombiemeerkat.5960:

I wouldn’t be sure that it’s an alliance. Both opponents are red to them, it’s hard to tell who is who when you’re in the middle of combat.

From experience, if your server is a pushover, they both just want your cake and will mow you and the other server down to get it.

Our garrison has seen more Ferguson’s Crossing and Denovah’s Rest than it’s actually seen Kainengs (us) in it. Sad, but true.

Sorry about that. Really bad mismatch for a couple of rounds. Ferg and Kaineng were paired up a lot.

This will not stop till they stop allowing people from being in same guild while being cross servers. You can Form a guild in Blackgate get sent to overflow recruit some people from Sea of Sorrows and then go join WvWvW and be able to talk to other faction… while pvping in a WvWvW match with Sea of Sorrows Blackgate and Dragonbrand.. who thought up this Guild design for GW2? They failed badly. 1guild per person! Server only! All else is fail.

PowerMind.3694:

obviously you have not had this happen to your server and it was the strongest server and weakest server ganging up we are still second place, i like WvW but when another server shows up and defends the other servers keep it ruins it.

This is what makes WvW so dynamic though. I love three faction PvP. A lot more fun imo.

Ynot.8397:

zombiemeerkat.5960:

I wouldn’t be sure that it’s an alliance. Both opponents are red to them, it’s hard to tell who is who when you’re in the middle of combat.

From experience, if your server is a pushover, they both just want your cake and will mow you and the other server down to get it.

Our garrison has seen more Ferguson’s Crossing and Denovah’s Rest than it’s actually seen Kainengs (us) in it. Sad, but true.

Sorry about that. Really bad mismatch for a couple of rounds. Ferg and Kaineng were paired up a lot.

We had about 5 seconds of thinking “Are Fergies and Denos allied up against us?”. It was quickly put to rest when you both started a massive zerg war in our garrison. We didn’t stand a chance. Even my latency suffered.

What it comes down to is that through all the cycles so far, we’re stuck in-between our opponents. Getting hit from both sides. It’s not an alliance, it’s just our bad luck….or is the placement not random? No idea.

How exactly would you prevent a cross server alliance? That’s part of the experience IMO. if your server gets a Reputation, then pay the consequences Of getting ganged up on I say!

Malpractice.7850:

Its fine.
Im from Hedge, we havent lost a SINGLE wvwvw yet.
#2-4 keeps changing between 3 servers, so we fight the same 3 over and over.
They have an alliance against us, and we still win every day.

Maybe u guys need to organize better.

I loled. lets break this troll down shall we?

1. any exploit your “titan alliance” can get away with, they will use it. whether it be the shooting of keep lord from under stonemist while you could not be hit. I might add this was done after hours of not being able to grab SM legit from ET. to popping stealth potion after stealth potion with no cds.

2. dont kid yourselves, you are not some “pvp gods” you happen to have a 20 man guild alliance that can operate 24/7 on voip. bottom line, you have numbers (on voip) when most people have to sleep or work. most nights ET outplays henge when we are operating, yet next morning henge takes all th EMPTY keeps back.

To your credit, when numbers are even its a good battle, but we have to sleep at some point and we have an alliance of maybe 5 large guilds, not 20 playing 24/7.

but please keep it classy henge, no need to exploit, you do fine without it.

almost forgot….we have never allied with jade…EVER. red means dead…maybe the pugs have, who knows, but nobody organised has had anything to do with them.

It’s far far worse on the citadel maps. This is why eternal battlegrounds is the only WvW match i’ll touch.

Malpractice.7850:

Its fine.
Im from Hedge, we havent lost a SINGLE wvwvw yet.
#2-4 keeps changing between 3 servers, so we fight the same 3 over and over.
They have an alliance against us, and we still win every day.

Maybe u guys need to organize better.

Henge is home to the single largest guild alliance in the game atm.

Aytrix.4059:

PowerMind.3694:

well since server transfers are free i took the liberity of changing to the servers we were fighting and not suprised to see them saying

guy one – dont attack red we have alliance
guy two – ok
guy three – help red at bluelake keep them in there spawn

I think transferring servers in order to spy on your enemies plans is a bigger threat to WvWvW then a few people trying to form an “unofficial alliance”.

this is why we dont announce in map chat what we do on Eredon T…..we also have our tactical ts channels locked unless u are an established member, known to be fighting and paying coin to the effort. spies can rot in the lobby….lol

Oh yes. Those server alliances are very real. This is ET and JQ having tea while ganging Henge.
http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/StormofBladeZ/GW2%20WvW%20HoD%20vs%20Others/

It’s not any better for the winning realm. It’s not fun to just crush a dead enemy at their spawn all day, it’s fun to defend and assault, and that’s not happening if you aren’t able to fight back. Also it makes the winning servers queues horrible because all the losers just free transfer over and flood the queue.

It’s not the alliances that are at fault here, in proper WvW they will be matched up against servers that are just as competent as they are and there will be good competition. the non competitive servers will move down the list and fight other servers just like them so it wont be so imbalanced.

Alliances are actually suffering greatly atm because the teams they beat are flooding their servers and their queues making it so the alliance members can’t even get into WvW in the first place. It’s terrible right now.

That’s why they have matchmaking and internal rankings.

All this QQ makes me laugh. Server alliances are a key feature of WvWvW and add a meta layer to what is essentially Guild War 2 “end game content”: THERE ARE GUILD WARS.

Even if they’re not “official” (many times they aren’t) impromptu ‘alliances’ are often perfectly logical. If one team is getting smashed, why not gang up on them and steamroll their defenses that much easier? The path of least resistance right? Sun Tzu the art of war, Machiavelli, CLAUSEWITZ. Do some googling and reed’n bookz on war strategies.

WvWvW is still being monitored and tweaked. Until we experience the full length war cycle all of this is speculation. Yes it is bumpy right now (MORE SERVERS ANET) but at least we know this game has a long life trajectory and as MMO fans we should be thankful for that!

CelestialStormZ.5102:

Oh yes. Those server alliances are very real. This is ET and JQ having tea while ganging Henge.
http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/StormofBladeZ/GW2%20WvW%20HoD%20vs%20Others/

That is hilarious to see myself in your pics…

Did you even bother playing DAoC? That happened all the time.

Re-design WvWvW to be WvWvWvWvW. 5 competing sides. Same general mechanics. New maps.
Far less likely to get alliances shutting a single faction completely out.

Wait, wait, wait… are we complaining because GUILDS are WARRING? Man, if I would have known that GUILDS were going to go to WAR, and engage in all the strategy, politicking, and treachery that go with, I probably would have never purchased this misleadingly titled game.

PowerMind.3694:

Un-official server alliances ruin the WvW experience for the server thats being ganged up on and killed outside spawn from both chokes, for me this is very bad game design there needs to be somthing added to combat this type of play.

It’s GUILD Wars… not solo PvP guy wars. Move along.

And keep in mind that most alliances aren’t even at full force Some are waiting to let the servers to settle and then move in. Doing some PvE now to enter later.

Malpractice.7850:

Its fine.
Im from Hedge, we havent lost a SINGLE wvwvw yet.
#2-4 keeps changing between 3 servers, so we fight the same 3 over and over.
They have an alliance against us, and we still win every day.

Maybe u guys need to organize better.

Looks like their plan is not bothering to zone into WvW when they are against HoD.

How long do you think your good alliances are going to stay on HoD when they don’t get a fight?

ageNtreachery.2164:

Malpractice.7850:

Its fine.
Im from Hedge, we havent lost a SINGLE wvwvw yet.
#2-4 keeps changing between 3 servers, so we fight the same 3 over and over.
They have an alliance against us, and we still win every day.

Maybe u guys need to organize better.

Looks like their plan is not bothering to zone into WvW when they are against HoD.

How long do you think your good alliances are going to stay on HoD when they don’t get a fight?

Pretty much this. Thanks to free transfers, when we see Henge on the other teams, we just play somewhere else for the day. They can have fun dominating the scoreboard and capturing empty points with their 200 man zerg guilds.

Its ok if it were the 2 weakest servers making an alliance against the strongest.
But when the strongest makes an alliance with the weakest to secure their frist place and “promosing” the weakest server a second place if they help them, is quite pathethic.

Henge is full of bads that cap @ night just like every other 1st place server lol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzHRveJGjNU