Guild Wars 2

All you need to maintain perma stealth is the +1 second stealth trait, the initiative while stealthed trait, and +2 initiative when stealthed trait. That is for perma AOE stealth. I use it with my buds around corners sometimes and ambush people. If you run with two or more similar spec thieves, you can roam the whole map invisible.

yagerau.6438:

All you need to maintain perma stealth is the +1 second stealth trait, the initiative while stealthed trait, and +2 initiative when stealthed trait. That is for perma AOE stealth. I use it with my buds around corners sometimes and ambush people. If you run with two or more similar spec thieves, you can roam the whole map invisible.

Exactly,and i want to know,why anet thinks that this is fair and not unbalanced and working like it should ? Threads pop up about thiefs and this issue every day and we get no response at all.I honestly would like to know if this is all intended an working like it should, since they aren’t doing a thing to fix this class.And if so,then grats on making the most unbalanced noobfriendly class ive ever come across in all mmo’s ive played the last couple of years.

Possibly a good reason thieves’ stealth hasn’t been nerf, is their presence in a large scale battle has never changed the outcome of a battle. Which is also why Ele’s and Mesmers have been nerfed, being able to perform amazing feats like portal bombing, aoe area control and actually blocking treb fire.
When Anet created theif, they created the only class in the game that has no passive guard. A class that has to actively avoid all damage. To make this manageable they equipped them with an illusion to keep as much damage focus off them as possible. On top of that they worked this stealth illusion deeply into their offenses. Thus you have a class is dependent on stealth for defense and attack.
On top of that they removed the thief class’ traditional primary target. The support healer. Traditionally a party’s backbone was the healer and if the healer died, their party fell soon after. Thief’s role was to take them out so the party would would fall. That was Thief’s big impact. However now everyone’s their own support, Thief has lost their target, their role and their way to make a big impact.

Anet knows all this, how they’re dependent on stealth, and how they don’t make a significant impact on big battles in WvW. This is probably why Anet hasn’t touched stealth.

Dual.8953:

Possibly a good reason thieves’ stealth hasn’t been nerf, is their presence in a large scale battle has never changed the outcome of a battle. Which is also why Ele’s and Mesmers have been nerfed, being able to perform amazing feats like portal bombing, aoe area control and actually blocking treb fire.
When Anet created theif, they created the only class in the game that has no passive guard. A class that has to actively avoid all damage. To make this manageable they equipped them with an illusion to keep as much damage focus off them as possible. On top of that they worked this stealth illusion deeply into their offenses. Thus you have a class is dependent on stealth for defense and attack.
On top of that they removed the thief class’ traditional primary target. The support healer. Traditionally a party’s backbone was the healer and if the healer died, their party fell soon after. Thief’s role was to take them out so the party would would fall. That was Thief’s big impact. However now everyone’s their own support, Thief has lost their target, their role and their way to make a big impact.

Anet knows all this, how they’re dependent on stealth, and how they don’t make a significant impact on big battles in WvW. This is probably why Anet hasn’t touched stealth.

This pretty much

That lone thief roamer makes no difference in the outcome of a WvW siege or whatever. The only thing they can do in WvW is cut enemy supply which they are very good at, but thats abt it.

That one thief ganking you doesnt change anything in WvW.

I have a feeling that A-Net will make changes to the thief tho in order to shut these whiners up. They would have to completely revamp the class tho because any nerfs to stealth will render the thief useless. We will see how it’s gonna play out. I love reading all the crying tho, very amusing :P

kittenzlenit.7648:

Thieves can kill 30+ zergs with one single strike if you see one in the open fields type /bow and move on, but you should be aware that the thief can teleport across the whole map infinitely whenever he wants so you might not be able to escape.

also they have a ability that kills you when you get into their LOS.

Bow to the masterclass and leave in awe !

Ahhh thieves must have got some new incredible aoe skill that one shots everyone ?

Any thief that can take a zerg of 30 please come face us on kain server. I would love to see 1 thief wipe out our zergs.

Sorry had to respond to the troll.

Anyway I do think some changes may need to be made to thief especially to increaing the time they are revealed after damage. However, the culling fix may correct this. If not then it probably should be added.

Also that perma stealth video just shows a thief burning everything, including all his intiative to stay stealth. He is doinkittenage. He can’t hold a camp that way because being stealth won’t allow u to. His damage is weak and all his traits are spent to stay stealth and very little of anything else. He is built to annoy and that is all. Very weak wvw setup to do anything else.

Dual.8953:

Possibly a good reason thieves’ stealth hasn’t been nerf, is their presence in a large scale battle has never changed the outcome of a battle. Which is also why Ele’s and Mesmers have been nerfed, being able to perform amazing feats like portal bombing, aoe area control and actually blocking treb fire.
When Anet created theif, they created the only class in the game that has no passive guard. A class that has to actively avoid all damage. To make this manageable they equipped them with an illusion to keep as much damage focus off them as possible. On top of that they worked this stealth illusion deeply into their offenses. Thus you have a class is dependent on stealth for defense and attack.
On top of that they removed the thief class’ traditional primary target. The support healer. Traditionally a party’s backbone was the healer and if the healer died, their party fell soon after. Thief’s role was to take them out so the party would would fall. That was Thief’s big impact. However now everyone’s their own support, Thief has lost their target, their role and their way to make a big impact.

Anet knows all this, how they’re dependent on stealth, and how they don’t make a significant impact on big battles in WvW. This is probably why Anet hasn’t touched stealth.

I have to say at the risk of sounding haughty that i’ve turned a few battles around with my thief. Just 1 thief. When you roll into their ranged lines with a ton of might, fury, and a glass cannon build, start pistol whipping a stack of 5 with quickness for 12k+ per person then do your spinny spinny spin troll in circles with each dagger doing 2-5k people start turning around and focusing you. the front line too is like who does this guy think he is downing 5 players in seconds lets own him. Then suddenly you hit 2 and you instant uninterruptable stun-break teleport back to somewhere safe and far away. Meanwhile quite a few people are swinging at air thinking you are still there, not even realizing the front lines have broken because they are worried about a dumb thief, and the zerg mows them down.

We’ve also done some tactical stuff a few times where we took a mesmer with us and just laid out a time warp and 2 other thieves and an elementalist just went to freaking town and bodies dropped everywhere. Oh and btw stealthed mesmer from previous mentioned perma stealth? It can summon phantasms all day on a glass cannon build and wreck shop with never leaving stealth.

The reason Thieves have not had significant nerfs that no one here wants to hear is they are balanced at the higher end of the skill cap for all professions. They are OP at the lower – mid ranges that are common in WvW and hotjoin.

Anet developed this game with it being an E-Sport in mind. There is no reason to believe it’s not still a mission of theirs. You don’t get an e-sport by balancing your game around the general WvW zerg type population that doesn’t even bother to understand every profession and their mechanics.

Anyone who believes that you don’t need to balance the PvP game in WvW cause thieves “suck” at zerg fighting (Which is complete BS being spouted by clueless thieves who just don’t want to learn how to play the game like everyone else) is kidding themselves.

Thieves winning when they have the advantage of surprise is fine with me, really.

The problem is when everyone KNOWS they’re there, and there’s still no counter for them. It’s not merely a question of advantage through surprise and ambush — it’s a clear 24/7 advantage under every circumstance. Knowing they are there does nothing to help you because there is no counter to stealth.

Stiv.1820:

The reason Thieves have not had significant nerfs that no one here wants to hear is they are balanced at the higher end of the skill cap for all professions. They are OP at the lower – mid ranges that are common in WvW and hotjoin.

Anet developed this game with it being an E-Sport in mind. There is no reason to believe it’s not still a mission of theirs. You don’t get an e-sport by balancing your game around the general WvW zerg type population that doesn’t even bother to understand every profession and their mechanics.

This is just not correct on several levels. Thieves are balanced in high end SPvP because:

A. The meta of sPVP is based solely on point capture/holding and thus favors highly mobile classes and bunker builds. It is a completely different beast.
B. Everyone has a substantially larger hp/defense in sPVP and it is not possible ot overstack offensive stats that lead to very high burst relative to these hp pools.
C. WvW has a much, much larger field of engagement, which greatly favors aggressors and defenders who are able to escape quickly and choose their battles.
D. A well timed dodge/invulnerability in sPvP will prevent a thief from re-entering stealth, in WvW there are a practically infinite number and variety of mobs to proc C&D off of, removing one of the central “skill” components in sPvP.

This issue has nothing to do with “skill level” and everything to do with the differences between sPvP and WvW. Give everyone the 5-10k more health and make thieves hit a lot softer (like in sPvP) and the complaints might differ.

Babayum.9204:

Dual.8953:

Possibly a good reason thieves’ stealth hasn’t been nerf, is their presence in a large scale battle has never changed the outcome of a battle. Which is also why Ele’s and Mesmers have been nerfed, being able to perform amazing feats like portal bombing, aoe area control and actually blocking treb fire.
When Anet created theif, they created the only class in the game that has no passive guard. A class that has to actively avoid all damage. To make this manageable they equipped them with an illusion to keep as much damage focus off them as possible. On top of that they worked this stealth illusion deeply into their offenses. Thus you have a class is dependent on stealth for defense and attack.
On top of that they removed the thief class’ traditional primary target. The support healer. Traditionally a party’s backbone was the healer and if the healer died, their party fell soon after. Thief’s role was to take them out so the party would would fall. That was Thief’s big impact. However now everyone’s their own support, Thief has lost their target, their role and their way to make a big impact.

Anet knows all this, how they’re dependent on stealth, and how they don’t make a significant impact on big battles in WvW. This is probably why Anet hasn’t touched stealth.

This pretty much

That lone thief roamer makes no difference in the outcome of a WvW siege or whatever. The only thing they can do in WvW is cut enemy supply which they are very good at, but thats abt it.

That one thief ganking you doesnt change anything in WvW.

I have a feeling that A-Net will make changes to the thief tho in order to shut these whiners up. They would have to completely revamp the class tho because any nerfs to stealth will render the thief useless. We will see how it’s gonna play out. I love reading all the crying tho, very amusing :P

That lone thief roamer just needs to equip/switch to a shortbow and he becomes pretty useful. Don’t forget about smoke wall (which nobody seems to like) which blocks all projectiles.

You can’t just say that without having an ability to single-handedly change the fight of the battle (portal), thieves don’t do anything in large fights. After all by that metric Guardians are useless in zerg-fights too, and everybody knows that’s not true at all.

I’m still unsure as to why thieves claim they are useless in large fights – so maybe you can’t go in and pick people off like in the open field. My Mesmer uses her sword for smaller encounters a lot, but you sure won’t see me leaping into a giant zerg and pretending that the same kind of tactic works. See daggerstorm, smoke wall thing, cluster bomb, shortbow #4 (healing reduction from poison) and even shortbow #1 bounces.

As a thief I also know the annoying-ness of not being able to do the same thing to a zerg as I would in a smaller encounter, but look at the big picture and realize that almost no other class can as well.

Nerfs to stealth will not render the thief class useless. Sure the removal of stealth would, but nobody is asking for that. Even if you believe thieves are not OP, nobody can deny they are an extremely strong class. A slight nerf wouldn’t make them unviable. God forbid that Thieves get on the same level as Engineers. That’d make them completely useless (/sarcasm)

Thieves are obviously the best class in WvW, you can’t really deny it. They can run around doing whatever they want with hardly any worry of getting caught and actually dying. After thieves, I would say elementalist and mesmer are tied for second best.

They don’t seem to be doing anything about the thief class so I just rolled one. If anet isn’t going to do something about them what can you really do but join them.

I’m sorry, but if you’re in this very unoriginal thread crying about thieves you are a bad bad bad bad player. A well played d/d ele is a much stronger roamer than a thief . If your zerker geared ranger gets destroyed by a zerker thief its not op. Try getting some PVT like most WvW players and /laugh your way back to your group

yagerau.6438:

All you need to maintain perma stealth is the +1 second stealth trait, the initiative while stealthed trait, and +2 initiative when stealthed trait. That is for perma AOE stealth. I use it with my buds around corners sometimes and ambush people. If you run with two or more similar spec thieves, you can roam the whole map invisible.

“All you need?” That’s 35 points in vit and toughless lines which is essentially half your build. You’re almost certainly going to at least finish one of those lines, if not both so you’re committed to a tanky relatively low damage and low burst build. I’ve tried it and it was a nice to troll with perma stealth while black powder counters other melee theves but the build is just not effective at actually taking down anyone with a moderate amount of defense because it relies on back stab crits. Not one but lots of them.

Against someone with a clue, BS isn’t very effective after you’ve lost the element of surprise. Of course in WvW most people don’t have a clue and many don’t have even a moderate amount of defense. So ok… Nerf perma stealth on principle? I just don’t see the big deal about that build.

And while we’re at it, let’s also nerf everything that requires learning about another class because the majority of the player base doesn’t want to learn about other classes except their own.

Hello,

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