This is a thread to condense our concerns and brainstorm on possible solutions. Please do not complain or point fingers. Make this a positive thread for the devs to read.
What is siege trolling?
Using siege equipment to hinder the players on the current server.
How does it hinder players?
1. Burning Keep Supply by building many improper siege. This method hinders a servers ability to defend itself.
2. Placing siege to block interaction with something by obscuring clickable areas. This method frustrates players and wastes their time.
3. Dropping incorrect siege in front of a group of players to get them to waste supply while the group is attack another keep. This hinders the servers ability to attack.
What can Anet do to stop them? What can players do to stop them?
Is there a way to find a solution to this problem that won’t result in more abuse?
Players can stop this by simply watching what they build. If your on a gate attacking a keep and someone throws down a treb in the area of a ram, you build the ram blueprint, not the treb one. Once you know who it is that is throwing random siege like that, you should be able to report them.
As far as blocking interactions, might as well wait out the timer on it for the blueprint to disappear.
Burning through keep supply. I have heard some people recommend that only Commanders be able to throw siege. There is a fine line there. I can see an idea like that working and also being a burden.
Targeting is hard. Not to sound stupid, but it’s not easy. Someone in EBG on Blackgate keeps dropping (and building) multiple pieces of siege right on repair NPC, and the game mechanics have no finesse in targeting the NPC vs any of the 3 pieces of siege sitting on the same dang spot.
Getting the same thing on TCBL, someone (who shall rename unnamed despite proudly announcing he’s a fresh account made specifically to sabotage the garrison) keeps dropping trebs on NPCs and wasting garrison supply. It’s a real shame, because BG players are good enough that their achievements don’t need this kind of behavior to taint it.
Getting the same thing on TCBL, someone (who shall rename unnamed despite proudly announcing he’s a fresh account made specifically to sabotage the garrison) keeps dropping trebs on NPCs and wasting garrison supply. It’s a real shame, because BG players are good enough that their achievements don’t need this kind of behavior to taint it.
That person isn’t from BG. Probably the same person that’s doing it to BG tbh (deleting character, remaking on different server, after server capacities got increased..). This person came from T2.
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One solution for offensive siege trolling is for Arenanet to designate a space right in front of the gate in which only flame rams can be placed. It would just say “You can’t place siege there” if you try to place siege in the flame ram region. The only problem is that it’s sometimes useful to place an AC there if you are trying to camera angle to take something down that’s behind the gate and on that bottom floor.
As far as building troll siege in a structure to drain it, that’s tough to deal with. It’s possible that they could implement the ability to view the person who placed the siege and if that person got reported enough, they could get dishonorable points to go towards not being able to play WvW (would have to be reviewed by arenanet devlopers). I don’t see this happening though due to many complications between establishing trolling vs bad playing.
Edit: as far as troll upgrading is concerned: it may be better that the more the structure is worth, the more people that have to approve of upgrading it. Maybe one person can upgrade a camp, 2 for a tower, and 5 for a keep or something. I can see this being very annoying for some people, though. Arenanet should have the ability to make an algorithm that can take the amount of people in a map and then choose number of people needed to approve of an upgrade based on that so for example if your map is empty, you don’t need many people to approve. If it is zerged up, more people have to approve of the upgrade for it to work (and have the cost split among all who approve).
GMs are the only way to stop this. Give them the power to insta-permaban people.
And if Anet is too cheap to spend the money, have a select few members of the player community do it for free — with the threat of insta-permaban for them if they abuse their power.
And before the white knights hop into the thread: it’s obvious who’s a troll and who’s just a new player doing it wrong.
One problem I see for the GM route is that WOW had GMs and every battleground was full of abusers/afkers.
What about a reporting system like this:
1. after building a certain amount of siege, the option to report siege abuse appears.
2. If enough votes hit this person, they are banned for 1/2/4/8/16/32 hours, doubling each infraction.
This would prevent throwing people out based on gear or grudges.
This would give players relief while GMs get around to dealing with the culprit.
The same could exist with upgrade trolling by having an option open if they upgrade more than 1 per day.
2 pronged solution.
1: Have unique build sites for each piece of siege
2: Have the players name tagged to the siege.
The engine knows who placed it because it allows for that player to take control from another player.
As far as too closely dropped….I got nada.
Every game should have in game GMs to deal with this sort of thing.
The one on TC is absolutely ridiculous. He’s been reported hundreds of times and nothing is done.
It’s been going on for weeks, if not months now.
That person isn’t from BG. Probably the same person that’s doing it to BG tbh (deleting character, remaking on different server, after server capacities got increased..). This person came from T2.
Fair enough, can’t quite take the word of a saboteur about where he’s from, now can I? Still, the fact that he’s claiming he’s from BG and doing all this is insulting to both TC and BG.
So you are saying that its not alright for me to drop a flame ram on a dead enemy to prevent their buddies from reviving them easily while they are attacking my keep?
So you are saying that its not alright for me to drop a flame ram on a dead enemy to prevent their buddies from reviving them easily while they are attacking my keep?
How does that prevent them? They cant use your siege, which would overwrite the revive option.
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You obviously do not understand how many blueprints I can throw down and not even make a dent in my reserve >.>
I normally have 4 stacks of Rams in my bags on any given day and 4 more in my bank xD
Also yes it does work I have been called lots of dirty things for doing it
By the way, the only way that I’ve seen work to get a griefer banned is to directly approach someone running with an Anet tag and discuss the griefer with them.
It totally sucks because you’re almost certainly bothering someone who’s just playing the game on their free time, but it’s the only thing that works. And if your server doesn’t have Anet employee’s playing, you’re simply out of luck.
One possibility is a game option for ‘show all interactions.’ As in, you’re standing somewhere where you can talk to an NPC, build a flame ram, build a ballista, or pick up an FGS. The UI would show all those options listed down, instead of just one. And you’d be able to click (yes, with a mouse) the one you want. The default one would still be usable with ‘F’.
So you are saying that its not alright for me to drop a flame ram on a dead enemy to prevent their buddies from reviving them easily while they are attacking my keep?
If you play on server X and drop siege blueprints on dead players from server Y, fellow server Y players can still res the dead guy. They have no option of interacting with your siege, since you’re from server X, and they can’t build your blueprints. The reason you get called dirty things is because it’s generally seen as disrespectful.
Unless, of course, you play on server X but have an alt on server Y and drop blueprints on players from server Y. However, in that case, dropping siege is one of the smallest things you can do to grief server Y.
Simple solution I think would be to have an emote in chat that says who is dropping what.
For example:
Trollforfun drops a treb on a gate and in chat his character says " Dropping Trebuchet!"
That way we know who is doing it. Then we name and shame then report them. Just have to have an automated emote linked to siege equipment.
I support this idea, but it won’t prevent griefers from other servers making fresh accounts and draining keep supply. And we know how responsive is to reports of abuse. >_>
This is a thread to condense our concerns and brainstorm on possible solutions. Please do not complain or point fingers. Make this a positive thread for the devs to read.
What is siege trolling?
Using siege equipment to hinder the players on the current server.
How does it hinder players?
1. Burning Keep Supply by building many improper siege. This method hinders a servers ability to defend itself.
2. Placing siege to block interaction with something by obscuring clickable areas. This method frustrates players and wastes their time.
3. Dropping incorrect siege in front of a group of players to get them to waste supply while the group is attack another keep. This hinders the servers ability to attack.
What can Anet do to stop them? What can players do to stop them?
Is there a way to find a solution to this problem that won’t result in more abuse?
On Henge of Denravi and when I was on Ft. Aspenwood, we still see people abusing siege on our own side – not only was it incredibly demoralizing, it was one of the reasons that many left Ft. Aspenwood – the siege against the enemy was one thing and it is frowned upon on Henge – but to see our own players purposely wasting our supply throwing down siege to waste and confuse our followers is not cool and far more than just unfair.
Others have told me similar stories about toxic servers – where negative is the rule rather than the exception.
…And other kinds of trolling against their own players became a bit – uh – intense.
Not keeping all IT jobs here is a major reason IT is so bad HERE. 33y IT 10y IT Security
The only way to end this grief play is to replace the current worlds (that miss an imigration office ) by Alliances. Maybe the mega-server will go that way.
It would be great to see a dev or mod comment on this.
If anyone lives in Bellevue, Washington, please deliver a cookie bouquet to Anet in person and include a greeting card that says “Please deal with X player. Much Love, Tarnished Coast”
already filed a ticket suggesting adding who dropped siege as a combat log event that way abusers and siege spammers can be identified and reported for disruptive play the reply i got back said anet were actively looking for a way to combat this.
Rough (Bing) translation of this 8month old post from the german community manager:
“Hi everyone,.
First of all I would like to thank everyone for your patience with you. Also – and above all – those who have manifested their opinion and their anger within the framework of the forum rules. Yes, I understand and accept that you are angry. Let’s talk but please still respectfully with each other.
Believe me when I say that – even if we have – been silent lately we this situation and the underlying problem have lost sight, nor ignore you and your feedback. We know the current situation (especially in Elona Reach) with regard to the grief plays in the WvW.
The WvW development team is currently working to revise certain structures within the WvWs, to rethink, to discourage players optionally and pointless to put siege weapons – without set stones for their style of play in the way to dedicated players and to keep them from playing on a world map.
Since this is a currently ongoing development process, we can call currently still no details about the exact scope of the changes. We’re currently investigating possibilities to find a solution that will work for all players equally.
The world against world was created to facilitate the participation of all types of players – and we want to exclude anyone of them to fight for his homeworld. Regardless of whether it involves daily player, occasional success Hunter or beginners who want to learn the basics yet.
In addition to the current development process, the WvW team deals with a number of other improvements, with the aim of continuing to strengthen the interplay in the WvW, and options for obstructive games to reduce. We have made still no immediate timeframe for these future development steps, want to let you know but already now that these topics the developers have arrived and are a constant part of discussions and considerations.
Thank you very much”
The only think that really happened since them was: They dropped the
- wall repair
- siege building
achievements and introduced the “siege per area”-limit.
Two ideas for this one
Tag a piece of siege with its owner:
“Superior Flame Ram placed by Lioka Qiao”. You see this tag when you target a siege weapon in the spot where the guild name would appear for a player.
Secondly… rightclick the portrait for a siege weapon and choose “report siege abuse” to trigger an infraction system against that siege owner. One possible system:
If x many players (5-10) report a single piece of siege then the player who dropped it cannot place siege for 15 minutes. This cooldown is increased for each piece of siege reported on.
If 2 or more pieces of siege owned by the same player are reported inside a tower or keep that siege gets a new “dismantle” option on its portrait when it is operated. Dismantled siege returns supply used on it to the objective.
A player may not report more than 3 pieces of siege in an hour timeframe.
Just screen cap and report the trolls. I’ve been hearing reports from various servers that the troll accounts haven’t been showing up in the last few days. We assume Anet finally decided to do some 72 hour vacations for these people.
) by Alliances. Maybe the mega-server will go that way.