Guild Wars 2

Siege disabler is super op right now…
Here are few things that need to happen because right now it’s just ridiculous.

1) LOS required to use siege disabler. People are using them through gates. wtf.
2) Increase cast time. It shouldn’t be insta cast. give the ranged a chance to kill people min 2 sec cast time or some kind of ‘twirl’ animation
3) Reduce 45 sec to 10-20 secs max. Most people have trebs/mortars trained at most gates. We just need siege disabler to give 15-20 secs for people to respond not 45 secs of boredom…

Seconded

i get why they were added and it does help the problem of speed capping things before reinforcements can arrive but holy crap two people can defend an entire keep by themselves

The problem is that even when people arrive and outnumber the attackers they often stay behind/on walls and use Siege Disablers just to avoid fights. Attackers have only two options, dps gate without siege under heavy aoes from zerg on walls or just go somewhere else where are enemies brave enough to fight.

Sounds to me like y’all need to find some new tactics to counter the disabler instead of complaining about it.

Siege disablers should have the timers swapped. It should shut down golems for 45 seconds and other siege for 20. IT takes a lot more work to shut down golems especially against a coordinated group that cycle the bubbles to keep a constant shield up.

I’ll bet that in 6 months time nothing will have changed.

Rinsam.1906:

Sounds to me like y’all need to find some new tactics to counter the disabler instead of complaining about it.

What new tactics you want to find?

Disabler requires less supply than siege. More people have more supply. Zerg behind wall can use disabler more times than attacker can build siege. Siege don’t survive 45 second under superior ACs shooting through walls, gates and ceiling (no LOS required for it).

You can use trebs or catas to get in but with T3 walls/gates it takes forever and most people don’t want to wait 30-60 minutes to destroy gates/walls and than find out that the enemy zerg just ported away because they are afraid to fight. This is same as the AC buff year ago, it just supports PvD, zerging and kills PvP…

There’s not really counter to stop enemy using Disabler, they can use it from range, from stealth, without LOS, instantly and it’s aoe…

The disabler timer should be longer when the outmanned buff is up.

I hope ANET ignores this with the same intensity as anything to do with gvg/fights that was ever suggested. Sorry something got in the way of your pvdoor guys! Maybe try fighting now?

Visirale.6097:

I hope ANET ignores this with the same intensity as anything to do with gvg/fights that was ever suggested. Sorry something got in the way of your pvdoor guys! Maybe try fighting now?

You haven’t read my posts at all, have you? I would like to fight but enemies are hiding behind walls and ain’t going out to fight… And I need to get through walls/gates to them to fight them. This disabler is what allows avoiding fights and makes wvw boring. Show us something what will convince all to fight instead of hiding. I would like to hear that and have it implemented in game…

Svarty.8019:

The disabler timer should be longer when the outmanned buff is up.

I can even live with this, cuz hey it makes sense but when you are outmanned and trying to ninja t3 kitten and some kitten behind gate keeps throwing disabler again and again it gets really boring. & guess what you travel and go to next tower/keep and he’s there again. Can’t get anything done.

Jezynka.2651:

Visirale.6097:

I hope ANET ignores this with the same intensity as anything to do with gvg/fights that was ever suggested. Sorry something got in the way of your pvdoor guys! Maybe try fighting now?

You haven’t read my posts at all, have you? I would like to fight but enemies are hiding behind walls and ain’t going out to fight… And I need to get through walls/gates to them to fight them. This disabler is what allows avoiding fights and makes wvw boring. Show us something what will convince all to fight instead of hiding. I would like to hear that and have it implemented in game…

Why would two people holding a keep or tower want to come out and fight 30 peoples attacking it?

The reason for keeps and towers is so that an outnumbered force can hold off a larger one.

Siege disablers are fine. Towers and keeps are still getting flipped on a regular basis in spite of them. Maybe people would get more fights if they did not travel in zergs of 40 with 5 golems on a map with 10 defenders.

There are other ways of taking out gates then using rams and as to supply, if your team played smartly and cuts the supplies to the enemies keeps and towers it will run out in time even as your larger force has access to the camps that have the supply.

babazhook.6805:

Why would two people holding a keep or tower want to come out and fight 30 peoples attacking it?

So you haven’t read it too. I understand that the Disabler is useful for smaller numbers against larger. The problem is that this ”feature“ has two sides. I wrote that often whole zerg is hidden behind walls and using disabler to avoid fight. I run with my guild with ~20 ppl and we find lately 40-60+ hidden there just using disablers and not fighting at all.

I like fighting and I don’t mind being steamrolled by a zerg but what should we do against enemy that just abuse this trap to avoid any fighting and waits in keep and that’s all they do? I play to have fun. Not to siege a keep for an hour and hope that enemy don’t port away when we destroy inner walls. The game mechanics allow them to avoid fight twice (once using disabler and second time porting away) even they have twice / three times higher number.

Disabler does not support fighting at all. With the porting inside sieged keep every few minutes the zerg inside has infinite flow of supply and they can wait indefinitely. You as weaker (in numbers) attacker has only limited supply and you can’t split and send few people for supply and then port back inside.

Jezynka.2651:

babazhook.6805:

Why would two people holding a keep or tower want to come out and fight 30 peoples attacking it?

So you haven’t read it too. I understand that the Disabler is useful for smaller numbers against larger. The problem is that this ”feature“ has two sides. I wrote that often whole zerg is hidden behind walls and using disabler to avoid fight. I run with my guild with ~20 ppl and we find lately 40-60+ hidden there just using disablers and not fighting at all.

I like fighting and I don’t mind being steamrolled by a zerg but what should we do against enemy that just abuse this trap to avoid any fighting and waits in keep and that’s all they do? I play to have fun. Not to siege a keep for an hour and hope that enemy don’t port away when we destroy inner walls. The game mechanics allow them to avoid fight twice (once using disabler and second time porting away) even they have twice / three times higher number.

Disabler does not support fighting at all. With the porting inside sieged keep every few minutes the zerg inside has infinite flow of supply and they can wait indefinitely. You as weaker (in numbers) attacker has only limited supply and you can’t split and send few people for supply and then port back inside.

I suggest you overstate the problem. I am in wvw each and every night and keeps and towers flip with regularity. Refine your tactics. There are other sige devices outside rams placed on a gate. Use trebs or a catapult. You claimed it takes too long? Tough. Taking a castle or keep should not be something done in 5 minutes.

It should be a difficult task and require a commitment of time. A zerg should not be able to roll another borderland in the time it takes the point counter to roll over.

babazhook.6805:

Jezynka.2651:

Visirale.6097:

I hope ANET ignores this with the same intensity as anything to do with gvg/fights that was ever suggested. Sorry something got in the way of your pvdoor guys! Maybe try fighting now?

You haven’t read my posts at all, have you? I would like to fight but enemies are hiding behind walls and ain’t going out to fight… And I need to get through walls/gates to them to fight them. This disabler is what allows avoiding fights and makes wvw boring. Show us something what will convince all to fight instead of hiding. I would like to hear that and have it implemented in game…

Why would two people holding a keep or tower want to come out and fight 30 peoples attacking it?

The reason for keeps and towers is so that an outnumbered force can hold off a larger one.

Siege disablers are fine. Towers and keeps are still getting flipped on a regular basis in spite of them. Maybe people would get more fights if they did not travel in zergs of 40 with 5 golems on a map with 10 defenders.

There are other ways of taking out gates then using rams and as to supply, if your team played smartly and cuts the supplies to the enemies keeps and towers it will run out in time even as your larger force has access to the camps that have the supply.

The problem is disablers aren’t stopping groups of 40 with 5 golems. The golems are shut down for less than half the time the other siege is (if you can even get to all of them) and if you do shutdown the golems the 40+ man zerg can pvd the door the rest of the way down.

Jezynka.2651:

Visirale.6097:

I hope ANET ignores this with the same intensity as anything to do with gvg/fights that was ever suggested. Sorry something got in the way of your pvdoor guys! Maybe try fighting now?

You haven’t read my posts at all, have you? I would like to fight but enemies are hiding behind walls and ain’t going out to fight… And I need to get through walls/gates to them to fight them. This disabler is what allows avoiding fights and makes wvw boring. Show us something what will convince all to fight instead of hiding. I would like to hear that and have it implemented in game…

I don’t believe you. There’s no way to count how many defenders there are, and I’ve never seen defenders not come out when they had the numbers. Failed attacks end in a rout more often than not.

If the defenders had the numbers they’d be on the offensive.

If you’re not too busy out-manning the enemy and PvDing, try defending your own structures. Feel free to come out and fight the attackers at any time.

I would like to fight but enemies are hiding behind walls and ain’t going out to fight…
[/quote]
I doubt that… more likely you just want to steamroll folks with your zerg or with your buddies who’s hiding in stealth.

Wanderer.3248:

Jezynka.2651:

Visirale.6097:

I hope ANET ignores this with the same intensity as anything to do with gvg/fights that was ever suggested. Sorry something got in the way of your pvdoor guys! Maybe try fighting now?

You haven’t read my posts at all, have you? I would like to fight but enemies are hiding behind walls and ain’t going out to fight… And I need to get through walls/gates to them to fight them. This disabler is what allows avoiding fights and makes wvw boring. Show us something what will convince all to fight instead of hiding. I would like to hear that and have it implemented in game…

I don’t believe you. There’s no way to count how many defenders there are, and I’ve never seen defenders not come out when they had the numbers. Failed attacks end in a rout more often than not.

If the defenders had the numbers they’d be on the offensive.

If you’re not too busy out-manning the enemy and PvDing, try defending your own structures. Feel free to come out and fight the attackers at any time.

You can count the defenders if you have spies inside their forts and keeps and that’s probably how they are making their attack plans.

Wanderer.3248:

I don’t believe you. There’s no way to count how many defenders there are, and I’ve never seen defenders not come out when they had the numbers.

You must have never fought SoR

Wanderer.3248:

Jezynka.2651:

Visirale.6097:

I hope ANET ignores this with the same intensity as anything to do with gvg/fights that was ever suggested. Sorry something got in the way of your pvdoor guys! Maybe try fighting now?

You haven’t read my posts at all, have you? I would like to fight but enemies are hiding behind walls and ain’t going out to fight… And I need to get through walls/gates to them to fight them. This disabler is what allows avoiding fights and makes wvw boring. Show us something what will convince all to fight instead of hiding. I would like to hear that and have it implemented in game…

I don’t believe you. There’s no way to count how many defenders there are, and I’ve never seen defenders not come out when they had the numbers. Failed attacks end in a rout more often than not.

If the defenders had the numbers they’d be on the offensive.

If you’re not too busy out-manning the enemy and PvDing, try defending your own structures. Feel free to come out and fight the attackers at any time.

Is this guy serious? If defenders had the numbers they’d be on the offensive? LOL… numbers doesn’t equal skill at all, if there is no enemy commander or leader most often people will sit behind walls waiting. Game is turning into a turtle fest with siege disablers + supply traps + trebs/catas behind gate/wall etc. Some of us don’t want to take down a t3 wall to get people to get our fights…

I love the disablers and find they add to my WvW experience. To me it feels like some people are frustrated not even trying to adapt to the change. Any projectile reflect/block will do.. I see more and more commanders dropping siege more spaced out or using reflecting skills almost non stop to beat the disablers. Mindless steamrolling is boring. More fun to try and outsmart your opponent. No?

TreeRhino.1372:

I love the disablers and find they add to my WvW experience. To me it feels like some people are frustrated not even trying to adapt to the change. Any projectile reflect/block will do.. I see more and more commanders dropping siege more spaced out or using reflecting skills almost non stop to beat the disablers. Mindless steamrolling is boring. More fun to try and outsmart your opponent. No?

If I had the numbers on me to run constant reflects I would barely need the siege. They need some serious adjusting.

Xillllix.3485:

I’ll bet that in 6 months time nothing will have changed.

Anet works in blocks of 52 weeks. 1/4,2/4,3/4 and thereof. So it could be anywhere from 3+ months to 15 years

Wanderer.3248:

I don’t believe you. There’s no way to count how many defenders there are, and I’ve never seen defenders not come out when they had the numbers. Failed attacks end in a rout more often than not.

If the defenders had the numbers they’d be on the offensive.

If you’re not too busy out-manning the enemy and PvDing, try defending your own structures. Feel free to come out and fight the attackers at any time.

Well maybe I’m that good after two years of wvwing in guessing enemy numbers. Or maybe I record our fights and then just watch video where I can count them easily…

I’m not sure if we can out-man them with Outnumbered buff on us. Although maybe we are more manly then them so this is how we out-man them?

And btw we are not hiding in keeps when under siege. We don’t use disablers and we attack enemies even when we have lesser numbers. The fun is in beating stronger enemy not in taking empty keeps…

I like it, provides moar pew pew. But to expensive like the other “traps” I’m not gonna buy them. Only thing I don’t like about them, that it doesn’t disable Golems as long like the other siege.

-make siege disabler being used as any other trap.
-set pvd damage to 1

No.

Siege disablers are fine, stop crying, move on, nothing to see here.

The siege disabler has already caused major changes in the tournament that is going on at the moment. Garrisons on borderlands are no longer being attacked except in the middle of the night as they are now completely impossible to take.

The only thing these have done is make taking hard targets impossible without hours of boring treb exchanges.

Yes yes, if you have siege disabler, logically, you should have siege enabler too :’)

Jim Hunter.6821:

Wanderer.3248:

I don’t believe you. There’s no way to count how many defenders there are, and I’ve never seen defenders not come out when they had the numbers.

You must have never fought SoR

or kodash … ok they come out, but only after they built a superior AC for everyone in their zerg and they will only fight you in range of said AC’s.

the only thing imho that’s wrong with the disablers is, that they can be trown trough the closed gate (so there is no change to reflect them)!

>>>Is this guy serious? If defenders had the numbers they’d be on the offensive? LOL… numbers doesn’t equal skill at all, if there is no enemy commander or leader most often people will sit behind walls waiting. Game is turning into a turtle fest with siege disablers + supply traps + trebs/catas behind gate/wall etc. Some of us don’t want to take down a t3 wall to get people to get our fights…

“Some of us” is exactly that. A small handful of people who just want to run over smaller numbers with larger numbers.

The game is premised upon taking and holding objectives many of which happen to be keeps and towers yet you do not want the bother of having to attack a T3 keep.

One might as well call for the banning of AC’s and Ballistas and the ability of the enemy to upgrade keeps so any one can be taken in 2 minutes.

The entire premise of the original posters objections are bogus. If a larger group does not want to fight and just hides in keeps why on earth would one believe they will WANT to fight if they no longer have siege disablers? If that entire group just wants to hide in its keeps walls then that a valid strategy. Move on. take the rest of the borderland. if they are as unwilling to come out and fight as claimed even against an outnumbered foe then leave 10 guys behind to pin their 50 in the keep and take the rest of your group to other targets. They will not have t3 keeps and towers for long.

There is a place where no one bothers to upgrade keeps and there little in the way of people that focus on defending them. It is EOTm.

Luvpie.8350:

Wanderer.3248:

Jezynka.2651:

Visirale.6097:

I hope ANET ignores this with the same intensity as anything to do with gvg/fights that was ever suggested. Sorry something got in the way of your pvdoor guys! Maybe try fighting now?

You haven’t read my posts at all, have you? I would like to fight but enemies are hiding behind walls and ain’t going out to fight… And I need to get through walls/gates to them to fight them. This disabler is what allows avoiding fights and makes wvw boring. Show us something what will convince all to fight instead of hiding. I would like to hear that and have it implemented in game…

I don’t believe you. There’s no way to count how many defenders there are, and I’ve never seen defenders not come out when they had the numbers. Failed attacks end in a rout more often than not.

If the defenders had the numbers they’d be on the offensive.

If you’re not too busy out-manning the enemy and PvDing, try defending your own structures. Feel free to come out and fight the attackers at any time.

Is this guy serious? If defenders had the numbers they’d be on the offensive? LOL… numbers doesn’t equal skill at all, if there is no enemy commander or leader most often people will sit behind walls waiting. Game is turning into a turtle fest with siege disablers + supply traps + trebs/catas behind gate/wall etc. Some of us don’t want to take down a t3 wall to get people to get our fights…

well not everyone is looking forward to jump outside a wall with pugs against a guild zerg loaded on heavies relying on stunlocks and passive healing just because there is no counter to it.
Also lets not forget that disabler works for attack as well,and considering that structures do cost actuall gold and the defenders do not get rewarded properly i would say that at least stalling for time evens out the defence-offence imbalance a little.
Smaller servers do need the disabler to survive and hold some morale longer,and as far stacked servers its a given that everyone would use everything to win.
Its just that disabler is exactly on the grey line between right and wrong,needed but also abused at the same time.
Perhaps would be nice to remember the older days when pvd was a form of art,not to mention it is a really good training considering it teaches people to clear walls and dodge red circles and blast water fields and the many many many wonderfull little things that the nowadays ktrain zerglings never even heard about.

Jezynka.2651:

The problem is that even when people arrive and outnumber the attackers they often stay behind/on walls and use Siege Disablers just to avoid fights. Attackers have only two options, dps gate without siege under heavy aoes from zerg on walls or just go somewhere else where are enemies brave enough to fight.

And the more gimmics they add to wvw, the less fights and skill we will see. When they added the 3 buffs (from each map), people were actually coordinating to cap all 3 and get stomps (basically incentive to fight and go in the open). Of course, they had to nerf it.

But no, these days you fight more against walls and gates than actual players…

I believe the more ways you can score points, the more chaotic they make it, the less zerging (i should say blobbing) there will be.

Fighting the whole map as they try to defend their garri is fun, but fighting a blob wherever you go is just, well, lame.

WvW isnt even pvp anymore… It’s become pve with some pvp if you get lucky.

grave of hearts.7830:

Smaller servers do need the disabler to survive and hold some morale longer,and as far stacked servers its a given that everyone would use everything to win.

This is where I don’t fully agree. Weaker side needs some boost but the problem is that when stronger side starts using disabler against weaker, they don’t have any chance to „win“ (the PPT game) at all. Before they could try to split and attack on more places at once, now it takes one person to hold them long enough to get rolled by called zerg everywhere. That’s why most borderland with T3 keeps are empty…

babazhook.6805:

One might as well call for the banning of AC’s and Ballistas and the ability of the enemy to upgrade keeps so any one can be taken in 2 minutes.

Siege should help weaker side to stand up not stronger side to get even more stronger. How it is designed now it just kills open field fights…
And for me, I would prefer to take the keep in 2 minutes and find out faster if enemy stays for fight than loose hours of boring sieging and have no fight. And you know what? If the keep is defended by people it takes more than 2 minutes to take it. And it is more fun fighting inside than just sitting on catas…

babazhook.6805:

The entire premise of the original posters objections are bogus. If a larger group does not want to fight and just hides in keeps why on earth would one believe they will WANT to fight if they no longer have siege disablers? If that entire group just wants to hide in its keeps walls then that a valid strategy. Move on. take the rest of the borderland. if they are as unwilling to come out and fight as claimed even against an outnumbered foe then leave 10 guys behind to pin their 50 in the keep and take the rest of your group to other targets. They will not have t3 keeps and towers for long.

So you advise to split up and die on both objectives… Perfect…

babazhook.6805:

There is a place where no one bothers to upgrade keeps and there little in the way of people that focus on defending them. It is EOTm.

EOTM is funny place, there are so many fluffy kittens they don’t sometimes even know how to dodge. I play to have fun and fight enemy. In EOTM are mostly only toothless underleveled pugs that die after fist hit… There no challenge and honour in killing them.

Disabler should be nerfed or removed IMO. It doesn’t slow down karma trains that much, since karma trains are often attacking undefended objectives, or objectives that are paper with no siege inside, and even if they do get disabled they have the numbers to just autoattack the door down.

What’s more, there were already tools to slow down/stop big blobs. You anticipate their movements, flip or drain supply camps before they get there, and use gate trebs or other siege to stop the ram rush. Defenders already had many tools to stop blobs, they didn’t need more. The people this hurts the most are havoc groups, who don’t have the tools to keep high reflection uptime. (Which doesn’t even work that well BTW. Player can drop inside cata bubbles and drop the grenade inside them, pretty easy for a thief with shadow refuge. Furthermore the AoE is so big that you can aim the grenade so that it doesn’t hit the reflect wall/swirling winds/bubbles but the AoE still hits the siege)

The big change is that now attacking an upgraded keep that has any defenders inside is such a boring slog that no one wants to do it. A keep with 1700 supply means defenders can chain-disable siege for literally hours. In populated matchups they only get flipped during coverage dead zones. The net effect is to make the PPT game more boring, and the PPT game is already boring enough that a big chunk of hardcore players don’t care about it at all.

Jim Hunter.6821:

babazhook.6805:

Jezynka.2651:

Visirale.6097:

I hope ANET ignores this with the same intensity as anything to do with gvg/fights that was ever suggested. Sorry something got in the way of your pvdoor guys! Maybe try fighting now?

You haven’t read my posts at all, have you? I would like to fight but enemies are hiding behind walls and ain’t going out to fight… And I need to get through walls/gates to them to fight them. This disabler is what allows avoiding fights and makes wvw boring. Show us something what will convince all to fight instead of hiding. I would like to hear that and have it implemented in game…

Why would two people holding a keep or tower want to come out and fight 30 peoples attacking it?

The reason for keeps and towers is so that an outnumbered force can hold off a larger one.

Siege disablers are fine. Towers and keeps are still getting flipped on a regular basis in spite of them. Maybe people would get more fights if they did not travel in zergs of 40 with 5 golems on a map with 10 defenders.

There are other ways of taking out gates then using rams and as to supply, if your team played smartly and cuts the supplies to the enemies keeps and towers it will run out in time even as your larger force has access to the camps that have the supply.

The problem is disablers aren’t stopping groups of 40 with 5 golems. The golems are shut down for less than half the time the other siege is (if you can even get to all of them) and if you do shutdown the golems the 40+ man zerg can pvd the door the rest of the way down.

A pity that you can’t get zerg disablers for a few badges and some silver – I’d buy a stack.

Yougottawanna.7420:

The big change is that now attacking an upgraded keep that has any defenders inside is such a boring slog that no one wants to do it. A keep with 1700 supply means defenders can chain-disable siege for literally hours. In populated matchups they only get flipped during coverage dead zones. The net effect is to make the PPT game more boring, and the PPT game is already boring enough that a big chunk of hardcore players don’t care about it at all.

This hits the nail on the head…

Siege disabler help big zergs. They leftbehind 2 players with 50 supply and easyli defend a tower while the big zerg cap something and walk back to pwn the smaller team

Well to counter it for the attk is to mix up your siege just do not spam rams vs a real def just ram spam not going to work any way. If you only want to use one type of siege you must def it and not just depend sololy on the build in def of the siege it self such as using WoF and other range blocks. For the defer counter to the disabler use more then just ac leave the walls from time to time.

The only thing siege disabler is going to do is counter ppl who put all there eggs in one group to take down a wall or door or def such. WvW should not be something where you can spam the same siege over and over to win ever siege war.

Siege Disabler is OP. Time to ram my big dumb norn head against the door.

Luvpie.8350:

Yougottawanna.7420:

The big change is that now attacking an upgraded keep that has any defenders inside is such a boring slog that no one wants to do it. A keep with 1700 supply means defenders can chain-disable siege for literally hours. In populated matchups they only get flipped during coverage dead zones. The net effect is to make the PPT game more boring, and the PPT game is already boring enough that a big chunk of hardcore players don’t care about it at all.

This hits the nail on the head…

No it does not. I know you have been absent from the game for a while….and it`s funny to read the whine but honestly, let`s raise the skill bar just a little itsy bit above ground and see how it works out (before the game dies anyway).

I have been a defender for so long and if you look at the many times a blob has brute forced t3 with 4-5 rams before we even could react considering fast build i think for the moment it is justified to let def be a little op.
While I agree as grave points out, that using a siege disabler can be abused both ways and this is surely true – the not surprising insight on my side is that i see a way higher intelligence level in the guys that deff versus the the blob in front of the gate how seems unable to put some brains in it and expect t3 to drop easily.

Have you tried one of the following:
- draining you objective with a few tier5 treb users (should not be an issue to come by them nowadays).
-running at least one main group and one distraction group who hits the objective from the other side
- spacing your siege (2 deffers….30+ blob cant space their siege so not all will bloked at once?)
- using reflection and protection your siege
-coordination to cause a distraction somewhere else on the map
- map awareness where you 3rd party on the map is (aka taking advantage of the enemy of the enemy)
- destroy a wall or multiple ones will drain supply quickly
- cut enemy supply into keeps
- using a siege disabler yourself

There is sure a few more but just straight out complaining wont do.
And last but not least, did you guys not always “we are here for the fights”. Well, I am on a deff server and that sure give me alot of fights when i can call in my own people to deff a tower where a 30+ blob stands outside (back turned stupidly to the inc and no scouters and stacking, nicely standing in the red circles of sup ac). If we spend 2 or 3 hours fighting around our keeps trying to maintain our objectives on the map versus multiple groups I can assure you everyone gets something out of it even if at the end of the run we loose a keep.

And if all does not help. Go for a 30 golem parade (happened on us today). You can still brute force but it wont come at a cheap price.

If you want karma runs go eotm.

I like siege disabler. I think they are nearly as effective as a door treb that takes 10x supply if you have a zerg to back you up.

babazhook.6805:

The entire premise of the original posters objections are bogus. If a larger group does not want to fight and just hides in keeps why on earth would one believe they will WANT to fight if they no longer have siege disablers? If that entire group just wants to hide in its keeps walls then that a valid strategy. Move on. take the rest of the borderland. if they are as unwilling to come out and fight as claimed even against an outnumbered foe then leave 10 guys behind to pin their 50 in the keep and take the rest of your group to other targets. They will not have t3 keeps and towers for long.

So you advise to split up and die on both objectives… Perfect…

Can you be consistent? You just stated they would not come out of their keep to fight. Now you are saying if you split your forces they will come out of their keep and fight. Your problem is thus solved is it not?

Svarty.8019:

The disabler timer should be longer when the outmanned buff is up.

+1 .

Just get rid of the disabler. It was a bad idea.

Change the siege disabler so that it cannot be deployed on rams from the inside of a tower/keep/stonemist, and we have a balanced tool.

At the moment, there’s no risk associated with deploying the disabler. Just get into the tower and throw it against the gate, and you have bought time. IMO that’s a bit too strong. I’m on a consistently outnumbered server, (only T4 server in a world of T3s) and for every time that I’ve been attacking a tower with a larger force, I’ve been stopped by a larger force with siege disablers three to five times.

I run squads of 15, I dont really have the extra people to assign reflect rotations for the entire 2-3 minutes that it takes to ram down a reinforced gate (uninterrupted with 2 superior rams). Realistically the only thing that works to reflect a siege disabler on a gate (when they’re thrown from behind) is Swirling Winds, the 4 skill on Elementalist focus. Were I to go through the trouble of asking my guild to run S/F elementalists for this purpose, I would need to allocate 1/3 of my force to S/F (6 second swirling winds, 30 second cooldown), and their timing with the swirling wind would need to perfect. Let’s not forget that my zerg is now essentially rallybait with 0 sustain, because we have 5 S/F Eles!

TLDR: Change the siege disabler so that it cannot be deployed on rams from the inside of a tower/keep/stonemist, and we have a balanced tool. I have no problem with it being deployed from on top of the wall, or existing, as long as you cant disable through the door.

edit: could be D/F eles too. No need to h8 on daggers m8

ANet needs to discourage blobbing and encourage more fights. It’s the best part of WvW, and everyone knows that, except for some reason ANet. Siege disablers just make PVD the most viable solution, encouraging blobbing and allowing people to just sit and chuck these things down instead of fighting.

They need something to encourage fighting and discourage large defensive zergs sitting on walls, avoiding fights. A thought I had that’s entirely not well thought-out or fully fleshed includes implementing siege towers. This is something very similar to golems, except they can only be built within a close proximity to walls and only one may be built per objective, at only 2-3 specific locations at each objective. They’d have similar health to golems and cost 200-250 supply to build, but move slower than golems. They’d also take 200-300% damage while being built, so that you really have to speed build it. You can’t just run from a camp and back over a few minutes. It takes 5 people to man it in order to move/push it forward, and these people are still susceptible to damage while they do so .

Once put into place after 15-20 seconds of “pushing it”, 5 people can use it to get on top of the wall from where they are. There’s a 30 (or maybe 45) second internal timer for the siege tower, so that no more than 5 people can get into an objective every 30 (or 45) seconds. Also upon entry, they receive the Revealed condi which cannot be condi cleansed with a 30/45 second duration. Mesmers similarly are given a 30/45 second cooldown on their portal automatically, so that these siege towers can’t be abused as a tactic for mesmers to get in to port.

Essentially, it’s a way to promote the importance of small, coordinated 5-man groups who could potentially make the difference in a siege. If there’s a zerg of 20-30 defending the objective, those five would likely get demolished quickly, and the siege tower perhaps destroyed before it unloads more than the first five. Also, the limitation of only being able to build them in 2-3 specific locations means that it can be somewhat predictable. Good defense would put a balli or AC or treb to destroy it should it be built there.

Still, it provides some strategic worth to a small man group. Plus, with the 200 supply cost, you really can’t ninja with one. Maybe even up this to 250/300 supply to make it necessary to use larger groups to build these during sustained sieges. In any case, it’s mostly just a random thought and an attempt at reducing the tendency for people to sit on walls, avoiding fighting despite having strong numbers.

You’ll probably say that it favors larger population servers too much. Yes it does. But it’s not up to siege to balance population imbalances. ANet has to deal with that structurally.

Anyways, food for thought. Begin ze flaming.

tldr: Just another attempt to reduce boring siege-offs.

LOS and max 2 disabled / scroll i Think would be fare.

I do not know what servers others play on but I am involved in fights each and every night.

Someone holed up in hills.? Throw up some trebs in NEC and take them out. If you counter trebs they might put up then they have to come to you and you will get all the fights you like.

Yet the people against disablers claim trebs “take too long”.

Well if they “take too long” it means those guys will have to come out of their keep over and over and over again to fight.

This has always been the case. If you put rams up at the gate ANY defender will stay behind the keeps walls and try to take the rams down from the walls. This was the case before disablers.

If you put up Catapults outside of their range and attack its walls then they have to come to you and you get your fight.

Further to that it does not take 20 people to run a treb. It takes one. Your blob of 20 or 30 or 40 does not have to all do nothing as a place trebbed.

The claims made by those against siege disablers that “they want more fights” are bogus. They just want to flip the keep or castle faster and ride the karma train.