Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-August-9-2016/first#post6280775

Beta
Siege Repair Hammers are now in beta!
Siege Repair Hammers are a new consumable that may be purchased from the Tricks and Traps vendor. They allow players to repair all siege weapons as long as they have supply, and the hammers work with the Repair Master ability line.

We will be looking for feedback on the repair hammers on our forums and will be holding a follow-up poll to determine if they should become a permanent feature of the game.
In the event that repair hammers are officially added, the following changes would be made:

• A new pip would be added to the Repair Master ability line that would allow players to purchase repair hammers.
• Badges of honor would be added to the cost of the repair hammer.

They’re here, lets get the feedback in. They’re sold on the traps and tricks vendor for 4s96c.

Personally don’t think they should be in the game, or if they are they would need heavy restrictions. I don’t know what restrictions have been placed on them if any, but I’ll try to test it shortly, in the meantime my original thoughts about restrictions.

Xenesis

• A player should only be able to use a hammer once to repair a siege item
• Once it’s been repaired it can no longer be repaired again by anyone else, whether or not they were carrying and used 1 or 25 supply.
• Or perhaps only a certain maximum percentage can be repaired, such as up to 25% of it’s maximum health and that’s it until it’s destroyed.
• Or they are only usable on structure siege, not player made siege.

I really don’t want to see an entire zerg feeding supplies to keep a bunch of omegas up in a battle.

Also the blending wood/stone walls I guess are fixed, with a performance boost?

Mortars fixed.

kitten ing them right after implementation, GG on your feedback.

Remove the repair hammers along with arrow carts (which are still broken – firing from 3rd floor SMC w/o line of sight?), shield Gens and tactivators.

This will partially go along way to help WvW. Then nerf the amount of boons and condi’s, in other words get rid of the Pirate ship meta.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Remove the repair hammers along with arrow carts (which are still broken – firing from 3rd floor SMC w/o line of sight?), shield Gens and tactivators.

This will partially go along way to help WvW. Then nerf the amount of boons and condi’s, in other words get rid of the Pirate ship meta.

More like the Abrams tank meta.

Just tested repairing an alpha golem, 20% repair for every 10 supply, can repair up to full, have to be out of the golem to repair.

Dusty Moon.4382:

in other words get rid of the Pirate ship meta.

Pirate Ship was sunk by the boonshare meta.

I was excited to see in the patch notes today that walls in WVW are getting improved. I say this because it makes me think that Anet has a inkling that there is a problem with walls AND THERE IS! Most fortification fights are at walls not the gates. Because walls in GW2 are the easiest method in taking a fortification. I believe gates should be easier to break through but harder if people defend with siege. But this isn’t the case. So I would like to propose my idea about WVW wall constructs. Where at each tier level a fortification wall will expand its width. Making it so defenders can build siege to defend fortifications that are at higher tier levels. So at tier level 0 and 1 you have the same walls as in the game right now. But at tier level 2 and 3 the walls expand so that defenders can build out side the range of the typical Elementalist AOE skill called meteor shower. This idea if apply’ed will give more incentive for offenders to make their stand at more locations and give defenders a chance to defend vs a force they cant handle. Defenders should always have the initial advantage over a greater force that focuses in one spot. This proposal will make it so the repair hammer that just came out today balanced so that a offending force has a chance to focus in one spot. Repair siege hammers today are a unbalanced idea that cater to bigger number forces. Their needs to be wall changes before repair siege changes.

We been saying walls are death traps and favor more the attackers than the defenders for a while now, but they remain silent about it.

Jeknar.6184:

We been saying walls are death traps and favor more the attackers than the defenders for a while now, but they remain silent about it.

I think they are terrified of killing WvW, understandably, so they offer nonsense like “repair hammers” and call it progress.

Svarty.8019:

Jeknar.6184:

We been saying walls are death traps and favor more the attackers than the defenders for a while now, but they remain silent about it.

I think they are terrified of killing WvW, understandably, so they offer nonsense like “repair hammers” and call it progress.

Why are repair hammers nonsense? It ends up using less supply that rebuilding the siege. Shrug

To the OP, no – how it works now is fine. No restrictions necessary.

A golem repair 20% for 10 supply … isn’t that like half the rate it takes to build? Basically 100% for 50 supply? I wonder if they have a flat rate across all siege or it’s unique to each type?

I see a future where armies of pristine golems stand in neat rows at spawn. We have entered the age of the mech warrior!

I should mention…plz make a mad cat golem with dual PPC and LRM 20s

Jeknar.6184:

We been saying walls are death traps and favor more the attackers than the defenders for a while now, but they remain silent about it.

This is why I roam and focus on camps more. No false sense of security with a wall.

On the topic of repair hammers. I haven’t used one yet, but hope that either:

a) there is a cooldown timer that prevents siege from being repaired within 2 minutes of taking damage.

or

b) players using a repair hammer are inflicted with 25 stacks of vulnerability.

or

c) both the above.

I still think you people are flipping tables for too little.

Hexinx.1872:

A golem repair 20% for 10 supply … isn’t that like half the rate it takes to build? Basically 100% for 50 supply? I wonder if they have a flat rate across all siege or it’s unique to each type?

Okay, I take it back, that’s not nonsense. I’ve often seen golems on ~1% hps standing at spawn. This will bring them back to life! But at a cost of… eh 25s per full repair, it might be a bit expensive for some players.

Jeknar.6184:

I still think you people are flipping tables for too little.

Don’t blame anyone for flipping tables at this rate my friend, Anet has been constantly messing up WvW and people do get fed up at one point, but it’s still Beta and it’s always a plus people share their feedback and flipped tables so Anet can take notes.

Zenral.3958:

Jeknar.6184:

I still think you people are flipping tables for too little.

Don’t blame anyone for flipping tables at this rate my friend, Anet has been constantly messing up WvW and people do get fed up at one point, but it’s still Beta and it’s always a plus people share their feedback and flipped tables so Anet can take notes.

This post came up like 5 minutes after the patch. I don’t really think anyone had time to test the hammers to some meaningful lenght to justify all this table flipping.

Lionwait.4815:

I was excited to see in the patch notes today that walls in WVW are getting improved. I say this because it makes me think that Anet has a inkling that there is a problem with walls AND THERE IS! Most fortification fights are at walls not the gates. Because walls in GW2 are the easiest method in taking a fortification. I believe gates should be easier to break through but harder if people defend with siege. But this isn’t the case. So I would like to propose my idea about WVW wall constructs. Where at each tier level a fortification wall will expand its width. Making it so defenders can build siege to defend fortifications that are at higher tier levels. So at tier level 0 and 1 you have the same walls as in the game right now. But at tier level 2 and 3 the walls expand so that defenders can build out side the range of the typical Elementalist AOE skill called meteor shower. This idea if apply’ed will give more incentive for offenders to make their stand at more locations and give defenders a chance to defend vs a force they cant handle. Defenders should always have the initial advantage over a greater force that focuses in one spot. This proposal will make it so the repair hammer that just came out today balanced so that a offending force has a chance to focus in one spot. Repair siege hammers today are a unbalanced idea that cater to bigger number forces. Their needs to be wall changes before repair siege changes.

Speaking of walls, I hope their “improvements” involved a way to prevent hackers from using software that allows them to clip into the walls.

I saw it a few months ago. A small zerg I was with broke through the wall of a castle just to the right of a gate, and a large group of players came to defend it from us. I started attacking a player that went around the corner of the wall so I went around the corner thinking they were on the other side. It turned out a few of them were actually inside the small part of the wall attached to the gate. We could hit them with some AOE, but they had enough healing and support to stay alive. All weapon attacks, no matter what side of the wall I was on, kept saying “obstructed” and my team mates seemed to have the same problem not being able to hit them. While inside the wall they were able to hit us just fine as it seemed their line of sight wasn’t obstructed like ours was.

Sorry for getting off topic.

To get on track, there should be some safeguards in place for repairing siege. I think it’s a great idea, but it shouldn’t be allowed during battles.

Players defending a castle/tower/garrison/etc. should be able to destroy siege to prevent players from breaking through the wall. It wouldn’t be right for a zerg full of supply to keep their catapults and such going as it would make defending the location pointless.

Likewise, players attacking should be able to destroy siege on the walls to have a better chance taking the location from players defending it. It wouldn’t be right to be able to repair siege on a wall when there is a fully stocked supply depot close by.

Siege shouldn’t be repaired when:
The player making the repair is in combat
The siege is being used by another player
The siege itself is in combat (currently being attacked)

For players defending a location, siege shouldn’t be allowed to be repaired in and around the location unless the location is currently not under attack (cross swords icon on the map is gone).

This way, if players are attempting to take a location and successfully drive away the defenders, they can repair their siege and continue without worrying about a lone wolf or 2 coming back to finish destroying the siege. And likewise for player’s siege when defending a location.

Svarty.8019:

Hexinx.1872:

A golem repair 20% for 10 supply … isn’t that like half the rate it takes to build? Basically 100% for 50 supply? I wonder if they have a flat rate across all siege or it’s unique to each type?

Okay, I take it back, that’s not nonsense. I’ve often seen golems on ~1% hps standing at spawn. This will bring them back to life! But at a cost of… eh 25s per full repair, it might be a bit expensive for some players.

No. The repair hammer is, as of right now, reusable until you either un-equip it or if you use some other action. I was able to run back-and-forth from a Sup Treb to supply and back using the same hammer. I then went, with the same hammer and repaired an AC. Same hammer. Don’t know if this is a bug or not, but there you go.

Loosmaster.8263:

kitten ing them right after implementation, GG on your feedback.

Eh, I kind of feel the same way.

Jeknar.6184:

Zenral.3958:

Jeknar.6184:

I still think you people are flipping tables for too little.

Don’t blame anyone for flipping tables at this rate my friend, Anet has been constantly messing up WvW and people do get fed up at one point, but it’s still Beta and it’s always a plus people share their feedback and flipped tables so Anet can take notes.

This post came up like 5 minutes after the patch. I don’t really think anyone had time to test the hammers to some meaningful lenght to justify all this table flipping.

It doesn’t take that long to get some adequate result and feedback from these hammers and as said, wouldn’t be surprised if previous damage caused by Anet with their changes in WvW are keeping the people on edge.

Loosmaster.8263:

kitten ing them right after implementation, GG on your feedback.

I gave this same feedback in the voting thread. This isn’t table flipping, obviously a lot of feedback thread were gong to pop up, I just got the ball rolling.

Are we suppose to wait a week before submitting feedback or something?

I think the repair hammer should only usable on offensive siege like ram catas and golem. Make it unusable on defensive siege like arrow cart,treb and ballistic. So the players would be more offensive rather than sit in the tower with arroy carts and repair hammer

There is only 1 rare scenario where the Repair Hammers have a positive effect on the game. Here is the scenario:

• Enemy roamer attacks outer cannon/oil/mokittenuring quiet hours.
• The siege is taken to 1% and not completely destroyed.
• Defenders are not able to repair nor rebuild the siege.
• At the beginning of prime time the enemy zerg attacks the keep and can remove the outer siege at an instant.

Has anyone seen this scenario take place and successfully countered it with Repair Hammers? Anyone at all? I haven’t.

Even this one minor issue could be better addressed by for example allowing cannons/oil/mortar regenerate while the objective is not contested.

Were EotM players allowed to vote on trying the Repair Hammers? They are not WvW players.

cpchow.7416:

I think the repair hammer should only usable on offensive siege like ram catas and golem. Make it unusable on defensive siege like arrow cart,treb and ballistic. So the players would be more offensive rather than sit in the tower with arroy carts and repair hammer

Don’t know but most if not all siege can be use both defensive and offensive ways. How would you determine this?

Korgov.7645:

Were EotM players allowed to vote on trying the Repair Hammers? They are not WvW players.

Worse. PVE folks angry about the GoB changes.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Poll-12-July-Repair-Hammers-Closed/page/3#post6245742

Well I guess hammers would be another way to make your opponents burn supply faster.

I had selected a cannon and was facing it, but the hammer ended up fixing the treb behind me. The random, AoE repairing is useless, to say the least.

Also, I thought it odd that I could use one hammer to make multiple trips to and from the supply depot.

It certainly seems to be an item that could make golem rushes even more powerful, if the attackers can coordinate well enough and repair while under fire. Otherwise, they can be used to repair any golems that escape a failed attempt.

So they could make attacking sides more powerful, which I’m not entirely convinced is such a great idea.

I have used hammers today in defense of Hills. We had fewer numbers, but with siege could push off the enemy. The hammer made sure that siege they didn’t manage to destroy could be re-used. This made our outmanned defense a lot more fun and even possible. So I quite like the hammer.

I’m not sure about restrictions. But perhaps it should be combat related. If the player or the siege weapon is in combat you cannot repair (haven’t actually managed to test that ingame yet).

In short: Repair hammers seem like a great addition to defense. But should only be useable out of combat.

Hanza.6872:

In short: Repair hammers seem like a great addition to defense. But should only be useable out of combat.

I thought this sounded reasonable, but then I realised that the main reason to have them is to repair in combat – Other than that you may as well be dropping new siege.

Svarty.8019:

Hanza.6872:

In short: Repair hammers seem like a great addition to defense. But should only be useable out of combat.

I thought this sounded reasonable, but then I realised that the main reason to have them is to repair in combat – Other than that you may as well be dropping new siege.

Not quite, I could repair two AC’s if in the small AoE. And a superior treb requires more sups to build then repair. So there is use for them, at least in some situations.

The biggest gain would be for golems that survive an attack. Stack them up and rebuild them. I foresee a lot more Golem usage with these little hammers. (not sure if I like that or not just yet though.)

Svarty.8019:

It certainly seems to be an item that could make golem rushes even more powerful, if the attackers can coordinate well enough and repair while under fire.

As I understand it golems can’t be repaired while occupied.

Trolled a small group by repairing the cannon they were trying to kill. Got trolled by a small group that repaired a bali while I tried to blow it up…then used it to wipe our siege.

I don’t see what’s so bad about the hammer. Even if it takes more supplies for full repair than to build, at least we won’t be seeing low health sieges that’s just sitting there taking up space being absolutely useless.

i can finaly repair my arrow cart
Thx a-net !!!

FarmingPanda.4359:

I don’t see what’s so bad about the hammer. Even if it takes more supplies for full repair than to build, at least we won’t be seeing low health sieges that’s just sitting there taking up space being absolutely useless.

It doesn’t take more supply to repair than it does to build a new siege unless you repair it multiple times over a long period of time, otherwise the repair would be pointless, just build another of the siege next to it.

10 supply repairs 20% on an alpha golem, that’s 50 supply to take it from 1-100%, that’s half the supply cost of a new one.

Xenesis.6389:

FarmingPanda.4359:

I don’t see what’s so bad about the hammer. Even if it takes more supplies for full repair than to build, at least we won’t be seeing low health sieges that’s just sitting there taking up space being absolutely useless.

It doesn’t take more supply to repair than it does to build a new siege unless you repair it multiple times over a long period of time, otherwise the repair would be pointless, just build another of the siege next to it.

10 supply repairs 20% on an alpha golem, that’s 50 supply to take it from 1-100%, that’s half the supply cost of a new one.

Yea I know it takes less currently. I meant, hypothetically for the siege haters, EVEN IF it takes more, it is still a good addition. I always had a problem with <10% health sieges that’s basically useless.

Does it seem that you can’t repair the item if it’s in use? Like the Golem? I tried fixing a treb that was being ballied and my supply was disappearing but the treb wasn’t getting fixed.
My first use of the repair hammer was to run around fixing mortars and cannons that had gotten low during overnight battles. It took me a few hammers before I stopped pressing “f” and started hitting “1” lol. The only bug I’ve run into was at Bay. You can’t get to outer Bay without getting in the water and you unequip the hammer :/

So.. a week of Repair Hammers in. My initial conserns about upsetting the balance did not realize. In fact the Repair Hammers did not have any effect (good or bad) in my matchups.

Does the Repair Hammers make WvW better?
Ever so slightly, yes.

Ability to repair damaged cannons/oil/mortars is for the good. We didn’t have this before.

This is outweighted by the ability to repair golems which is bad for the game. Sometimes accumulating damage over several assaults is the only way to fight them and Repair Hammers nullify this tactic.

User experience?
In general Repair Hammers feel awkward to use and overly complicated for the little they do for the game.

Cons

• Costs BoHs and silver
• Consumable
• Requires inventory slot
• Requires opening inventory, double clicking the item and pressing skill 1 to use
• Unequip button instead of put back to inventory skill (destroy vs cancel)
• Cast bar is as poorly implemented as all other siege cast bars
• Auto-targetting instead of allowing player to choose what siege to repair
• Auto-unequip and destroy the hammer when entering water in ABL bay keep
• Not being able to repair siege that is being used (this is good for game balance, bad for usability)
• Uses skill 1 instead of F-key to spend supplies
• As much fun as refreshing siege

Pros

• You can move around and even resupply while holding the Repair Hammer
• There is an AoE indicator showing the area where your repairs will take effect when you channel the skill
• Repair skill can be channeled multiple times

Should the feature be rolled back?
Yes.

Come up with a better solution to repair damaged cannons/oil/mortars. (hint: siege weapons regenerate health while the objective is not contested)

Korgov.7645:

Should the feature be rolled back?
Yes.

Come up with a better solution to repair damaged cannons/oil/mortars. (hint: siege weapons regenerate health while the objective is not contested)

Repair Hammers aren’t worth all the [time and effort (both from devs and players)], supply, gold and soon badges.

I mean, what’s the point? The logistics of supply in WvW are already often problematic.
Perhaps this element of the cost might be significantly reduced?

Svarty.8019:

Korgov.7645:

Should the feature be rolled back?
Yes.

Come up with a better solution to repair damaged cannons/oil/mortars. (hint: siege weapons regenerate health while the objective is not contested)

Repair Hammers aren’t worth all the [time and effort (both from devs and players)], supply, gold and soon badges.

I mean, what’s the point? The logistics of supply in WvW are already often problematic.
Perhaps this element of the cost might be significantly reduced?

Exactly! Repair Hammers are a waste of everybody’s time.

Spending more development to determine the correct supply cost cannot be justified.

The only reason Repair Hammers were proposed was because the development was already complete and making polls, typing release notes, merging code branches and bug fixing, handling feedback, etc. are not away from the real development (Scoring changes). I wonder though…

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Thanks for the continued feedback everyone!

Repair Hammers will be disabled in the next release. You will be able to sell them to earn your money back if you have not used them by then. We will hold a poll after they are disabled to determine if they should be added back into the game, possibly with tweaks, as a permanent feature.

Thanks McKenna I’m glad the trial was short.

barely used them. bought like 12 and i slowly go through some of them every so often. Basically use it for repairing siege AFTER an assault. Can’t imagine sitting there during an assault defending some1 else’s a/c or whatever…burns supply very fast and ur basically wasting ur contribution to defense when u do this. man a different ac….get on the wall and fire….throw disablers….assault from teh ground…aoe things. heal people….i mean there are countless other roles that do wayyyyyyy more than repairing an ac.

the hammer is aoe which is kind of nice so u could repair mbe 2 a/c in a pivotal spot where more a/c couldn’t be placed….perhaps.

Underwhelming addition tbh…..but it does stuff so sure keep it in the game.

maybe you could change tricks and traps into permanent items so we dont have to buy them more than once ? not so much because of the price but like with harvesting and mining tools you just run out of them when you could use them

Eiffel.8937:

maybe you could change tricks and traps into permanent items so we dont have to buy them more than once ? not so much because of the price but like with harvesting and mining tools you just run out of them when you could use them

I don’t relish the idea of permanent siege disablers, but acknowledge how beneficial they would be to those who do use them.

Maybe a Tricks and Traps vendor could be added to the keep merchant upgrade, instead/as well?

Svarty.8019:

Eiffel.8937:

maybe you could change tricks and traps into permanent items so we dont have to buy them more than once ? not so much because of the price but like with harvesting and mining tools you just run out of them when you could use them

I don’t relish the idea of permanent siege disablers, but acknowledge how beneficial they would be to those who do use them.

Maybe a Tricks and Traps vendor could be added to the keep merchant upgrade, instead/as well?

Since there is a siegemaster, this would be a logical addition.

Feedback I’ve heard is based on repair hammers:
1) being lost when “transformed” (e.g. jumping into water)
2) taking up inventory space + activation from inventory
3) being useful/fun only for defenders of objectives
4) uses ‘1’ instead of ‘F’ for repair

What about adding a “bucket of repair hammers” near the supply stations in larger objectives? For players without adequate mastery for it, interacting would show a “You don’t have the mastery”. Loss of hammer on transform and targeted repairs still need to be addressed.

Benefits:
1) naturally directs new players to look closer at their WvW UI
2) solves all issues associated with being in the inventory
3) makes repairing on assault difficult (reduces power of assault golems and assault ballistas)
4) has potential for changing the dynamics of high-end defenses

About #4 specifically – It makes sense to combine all repairs (both ‘1’ and ‘F’) into just one format, and to have them repair everything if hammers are added. Unfortunately, it would likely remove the gameplay of walling assaulting players inside via repairs, so diving into the balance aspect would be absolutely required. This might involve tweaks to repair cost/speed, perhaps scaling to objective size in some fashion.

Note that with my suggestions, the reduced defensive capabilities – specifically at walls – is balanced by stronger defensive siege and weaker offensive siege.

Thoughts?