Guild Wars 2

WTF anet!? You took the only siege that could defend a fortification and made defending a place impossible now. Yes I might be jumping the gun. And who knows you might have a system to defend fortifications with the release of HOT. But it is hard to give you guys the benefit of the doubt for your track record of WVW. I mean hell! Just look at the uselessness of oil and cannons. Where no one can make use of them for fear of 1000 ground targeting skilled being launched at them. Or elementalist being able to to take out whatever siege a defender makes on the wall. I was in the new BL stress test and was kinda disappointed in one area. It is that in the new fortifications there are more places to atk. Making a defenders job harder to be in all places at once. Don’t get me wrong… I love what you guys are doing to the game. And all the things to look forward too. Its just siege needs a whole make over and I’m not talking about cosmetics.

Has there ever been any comment on if they are going to try and fix this. It was better before they “fixed” the line of sight. There was issues like shooting over hills wall at the cata spot and hitting inner siege/cannons but as it currently stands this is a giant step backwards.

An ac shooting from the ground below has better coverage than an ac on the wall above. An ac on the wall is near useless unless you have a giant army in front of you that can prevent the enemy team from just walking up and killing it with aoe. If you put arrow carts in the good old positions they can now shoot nothing.

I wish they’d revert back to the old 2013 fov. It would be the simplest fix.

I’m only here to defend the oil…. Oil is awsome if you have your masteries maxed and happen to be playing a burn focused build lol

sephiroth.4217:

I’m only here to defend the oil…. Oil is awsome if you have your masteries maxed and happen to be playing a burn focused build lol

Balthazar runes + full Dire. Ouch :P

I’m both happy and unhappy with the changes but I’m most unhappy that they had to listen to the post I made because now I feel like it’s my fault… Not that I had any clue it would result in this nonsense but I should have known better.

I still think the easiest fix would be to make thicker walls on all the structures instead of the narrow ones we currently have. As is an AOE can cover more than the width of the wall. If I’m standing on top of it and I place a Mark Of Blood (Necromancer staff skill) it will be wider than the walls themselves.

There needs to be a way to counter defensive siege so using things like Meteor Shower is a legitimate strategy. However, it is too effective to the point that arrowcarts need to be placed in some really awkward spots to avoid getting killed immediately. But now with the line of sight changes… That can’t be done at all. The only thing you can do is man the AC’s and start firing them before the attackers have a chance to start bombing the walls but that’s a best case scenario and rarely happens. If I drop 5 AC’s on a wall and they’re all manned when the enemy arrives there’s almost no way they’ll manage to destroy them all. But in most cases, only one or two will be manned, the others will be killed and eventually the rest will follow.

My vote is still to just thicken the walls which I had suggested ages ago at this point. AC’s would still be killable with AOE pressure so it allows counterplay but it also gives enough room on the walls that you can at least stand on them without immediately getting pulled off by a Mesmer or bombed by AOE’s.

sephiroth.4217:

I’m only here to defend the oil…. Oil is awsome if you have your masteries maxed and happen to be playing a burn focused build lol

Lololol, you think that’s good you should try Fire Impact Incendiary Shells with the Mortar. I’ve downed the majority of a large zerg more than once just by spamming a tight area with a bunch of mortar shells. Sit back and watch three dozen 5 – 9k burning ticks roll by your screen.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I should have known better.

What annoys me most is I have to be standing almost on the edge of a wall to shoot out. Line of sight an all that. But I can be standing on the very back edge of the wall and still get yanked out.

I’m not even sure why there is a way to get up on the walks anymore.

Siege and defense is almost impossible now. It was tough enough before, but now you better hope you have a really strong reaction force, or kiss any structure goodbye.

I don’t say this as someone who thinks that 4 or 5 players should be able to hold back 50. I mean unless you have a ridiculous amount of siege; and enough defenders to man them all, that zerg is going to roll right through you.

It’s not that siege itself is too weak though. The problem is that the attackers can easily clear the wall, and basically keep it clear until the rams or cats break down the wall/gate. Ground-targeted AoE is overwhelming, and makes most “logical” siege positions untenable.

Perhaps the lip of the wall that “obstructs” me from hitting attackers should also keep attackers from hitting me? Allow for ballistic attacks to arch over the wall, but make ground-targeted skills exist in the plane of the wall instead of overlapping the top.

Honestly, rams aren’t an issue with AC line of fire. Just have a few ACs and a cata or treb pointing at the gate and you’ll clear the rams eventually. It’s catas up against a wall that’s super hard to clear if you’re undermanned.

+ 1 to everything said so far. My pet annoyance—the HP of the arrow carts. Were they made in China by forced labour, because they feel like they are made of tissue paper. Three or four hits from an ele and its good night ac. Trouble is, my posting this and knowing anet, if they did add some HP, they would go way overboard with the HP buff >>.

Shadey Dancer.2907:

+ 1 to everything said so far. My pet annoyance—the HP of the arrow carts. Were they made in China by forced labour, because they feel like they are made of tissue paper. Three or four hits from an ele and its good night ac. Trouble is, my posting this and knowing anet, if they did add some HP, they would go way overboard with the HP buff >>.

Superior ones last longer/can withstand hits.

They just need to add more siege weapons to the game to address different sitations. AC was too OP with its vision.

This thread is a perfect example as to always be careful with what you ask for since the fix we got isn’t the one players wanted (myself included) in the thread below.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Fix-the-AC-Exploit-now/first

Siege in towers should be an upgrade, rather than allow endless AC/cats/trebs inside a tower- but I wouldn’t trust ANet to get placings or numbers right.

Oh can we have a few more titles added for wvw, such as ‘hides behind A/c’ for those servers that love to have many of them and only come out to play when odds are 2:1 in their favour:-)

If this is the case, someone please inform Rivercart that its impossible to defend with arrowcart now. They keep building 2-3 of them even when outmanning their enemy 2 to 1. Thanks.

The fix to the original problem should have been to allow all players on an AC to have full FoV when firing. That would mean to counter an AC, a siege team would build an AC. Instead we got a change that nerfs ACs so hard it makes defending only possible with superior numbers.

Straegen.2938:

The fix to the original problem should have been to allow all players on an AC to have full FoV when firing. That would mean to counter an AC, a siege team would build an AC. Instead we got a change that nerfs ACs so hard it makes defending only possible with superior numbers.

The fov caused the problem to begin with, not on the defensive side, but the exploiting on offense. If you alter the fov on ACs you need to consider how it will be used offensively, too.

Jayne.9251:

Straegen.2938:

The fix to the original problem should have been to allow all players on an AC to have full FoV when firing. That would mean to counter an AC, a siege team would build an AC. Instead we got a change that nerfs ACs so hard it makes defending only possible with superior numbers.

The fov caused the problem to begin with, not on the defensive side, but the exploiting on offense. If you alter the fov on ACs you need to consider how it will be used offensively, too.

thats not true, before the fov changes we could still do the same burning siege on the inside of walls with ACs you just needed to be a little more clever about it. the fov update just made it available to every kitten face carrying blue prints.

I don’t know why they do not just add cart platforms inside every keep/tower that cannot be reached by ground targeted skills and higher than the wall.

There needs to be a viable defence position for siege, its just pointless otherwise.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

There needs to be a viable defence position for siege, its just pointless otherwise.

Yes, tools used for besieging and capturing keeps… Who would have thought they could ever be pointless for defense?

Simple solution: Remove Arrowcarts from the game, and no one will be angry at them not functioning right anymore. While you’re at it also remove siege golems and fix Treb splash damage so that it doesn’t hit through the gate.

Then we can start talking about strategic siege placement. Although I would rather see that (National EU) servers wouldn’t sit with zone blobs in their Garrisons, building ACs in panic, but rather push out and fight,… which is what this game is all about, is it not?

The game is not only about fight… If you only want fight go to pvp… WvW is about holding stuff for PPT…. This is how you win the MU, not with fight. Fight are needed to win, but are not the central point of WvW.
This is what make WvW interesting, all is not only about pvp only. Again, if you only want pvp, go to pvp and don’t ask WvW players to play like you want.

i love it, i hate servers that bunker their whole tower/keep with AC’s and when all doors are open they all run like kitten, instead of trying to deffend with a fight..

+1 to this amazing nerf
cant even use a AC on my server commander will simply run away from you and let you die or let enemy kill the AC we dont like AC’s we want fights without siege crap being used…

hate all these PPT warriors, go for kills per tick! fight lose or win no1 cares..

Kaiser.9873:

The problem is that the attackers can easily clear the wall, and basically keep it clear until the rams or cats break down the wall/gate. Ground-targeted AoE is overwhelming, and makes most “logical” siege positions untenable.

We were discussing this in guild the other night. It’s absolutely absurd that given mostly even numbers, the crew with the high ground (IE, on the walls) cannot hold out against those outside. Players on the ground can carpet the wall end to end and side to side with AOE that, due to the dimensions of the wall, becomes unavoidable. Meanwhile, they enjoy the ability to dodge freely and move out of range of AoE from players on the walls that MUST BE targeted from the outside lip, well into pull range. (Although with things like Mesmer focus, even the inside lip isn’t completely safe.) I’m not advocating that the players on the walls should enjoy an advantage, but the FoV/LOS issues on ground targeted skills as pertains to walls needs to be addressed in a logical fashion to equalize some of this.

DomAltares.8651:

We were discussing this in guild the other night. It’s absolutely absurd that given mostly even numbers, the crew with the high ground (IE, on the walls) cannot hold out against those outside.

Nailed it. Structures that are actively defended by a large group should not only be able to hold out but push back all but the most determined forces. Currently if the attackers have a slight edge in population they can take a structure through sheer force as the defenders can only wait until their is a full breach to actively use siege.