Guild Wars 2

I’ll add new research from last night… Veloka is pretty much impossible to take unless you have overlook keep thanks to this disabler. There’s only one good cata wall on veloka and you’re close enough to be wall disabled. This especially if veloka has fortified walls and gate. Before the disabler it used to be possible but really difficult. Now.. completely impossible.

I would think that hills falls under the same category too. There is that hill across from the wall with the cats on it that you can use to catapult/treb but it is easily countered.

Here is the good news… siege disablers are useless during weak coverage. Hopefully I don’t have to explain the bad news about that.

This is possibly the single most game-breaking “feature” I’ve ever seen. I’ve spent hundreds of hours commanding in wvw since the game launched. And in T1, good luck finding an un-scouted tower to use rams on at any time other than the the 3 am lull. Quite frankly, this to me shows Anet’s complete ineptitude when introducing new content, in doing proper testing, and in getting feedback from the community (who are the people they are maintaining the game for). Virtually everyone I’ve spoken with has had a negative opinion on this trap. Like the comments above, I agree with things like a nerf on the timer, or removing aoe, or cutting down the range, or putting immunity so that this isn’t abused. That would actually be fair and balance things. I already told my guild that if Anet doesn’t fix this in a month or two and I see that this is being abused, rendering particularly rams completely useless, I am quitting.

TriFiredom.1386:

This is possibly the single most game-breaking “feature” I’ve ever seen. I’ve spent hundreds of hours commanding in wvw since the game launched. And in T1, good luck finding an un-scouted tower to use rams on at any time other than the the 3 am lull. Quite frankly, this to me shows Anet’s complete ineptitude when introducing new content, in doing proper testing, and in getting feedback from the community (who are the people they are maintaining the game for). Virtually everyone I’ve spoken with has had a negative opinion on this trap. Like the comments above, I agree with things like a nerf on the timer, or removing aoe, or cutting down the range, or putting immunity so that this isn’t abused. That would actually be fair and balance things. I already told my guild that if Anet doesn’t fix this in a month or two and I see that this is being abused, rendering particularly rams completely useless, I am quitting.

Even if they fix it, it’s still a bad idea for an addition to WvW. There were no need for this. I find it extremely worrying that Anet’s could only come up with a siege disabler idea after 1 year without new WvW content. It shows a clear lack of imagination. Anyone in my guild would come up with a better idea within a few minutes.

What if, and keep in mind that I’m still unable to play so I’ve yet to see this in action, zergs actually became smarter ?

And when I say zerg, I mean at the very least 25 players.

(Guild) Catapults and (Superior)Trebuchets are the true queens and kings of WvW. You are actually sieging a tower. You can spread them enough to not be too hindered by the trick.
“But what if it’s T3 tower/Keep ?” Don’t let them reach that point. Yaks aren’t hard to kill and any defender knows how long it is for a tower to reach T3, especially when the yaks are being killed.

But now comes the real and terrible problem : a lot of tiers simply do not have enough players for that. During the down time, the few players on will have time to run yaks and fortify tower/keeps without too much trouble and if the other side attacks with only 10 players, that lone defender can keep them at bay long enough for people to leave, completely bored to tears because getting a measly champion bag in 10 long and frustrating minutes isn’t something they enjoy.

If WvW was in really healthy state, maybe this trick would be more interesting.

The devs who thought of this were looking for counterplay to golem mastery. I say to them to make it exactly that.

Take away the part of the disabler that disables normal siege and leave the golem counter part.

Straegen.2938:

Here is the good news… siege disablers are useless during weak coverage. Hopefully I don’t have to explain the bad news about that.

Indeed, it only delays the inevitable, only serves as a troll trap really especially if your a thief!

Sorry folks but all I am seeing in this thread is just knee-jerk reactions after only a day. Everyone has been so used to just running around in a ball and whacking towers out one after the other and collecting karma/loot.

That’s what WVW had become. Boring.

Sieging should be a big deal and take some strategy rather than repeating the cookie-cutter tactic.

It’s still possible to siege – you just have to use your brains now.

Terrahero.9358:

But the point of the siege disabler is to counter throwing down a blob of sup rams and melting a gate in 15seconds.
And its to stop the silly tactic of throwing down a cluster of cata’s right upto a wall. So you dont have to waste time charging the things.
Or how stackings cata’s together allowed chaining the bubble to indefinitly protect cata’s from a lot of counter siege.

The siege disabler isnt a single counter to all siege. But it punishes certain rush tactics.

Where has it been said that this is the point? Plus it does act as a counter to all siege and there are other changes that could have been made to counter such rush tactics without such an overwhelming effect on WvW as a whole.

Knee Jerk reaction hasn’t tried to take a T3 veloka post-disabler yet.

Sephirius.1457:

Sieging should be a big deal and take some strategy rather than repeating the cookie-cutter tactic.

It’s still possible to siege – you just have to use your brains now.

Let me repeat myself and clarify a couple of things.

I actually like the siege disabler trick, as a general concept. I think it is valuable to give the defenders a boost at preventing the 38453 rams insta-melting your gate thing.

Yes, strategy needs to change. Some changes have already been pointed out: more use of further-back-from-the-wall siege (catas and trebs), and/or spacing your catapults out to avoid a single trick being able to hit them all at once, and to eliminate multiple cata-bubbles being able to rotate for endless protection. These sorts of changes are good.

What is NOT good is the simple fact that rams are heavily heavily disadvantaged. You can only ram a door; you can’t ram a wall. Doors just aren’t that big, therefore even at their furthest-apart spacing you can hit most rams with one trick placement. (Not to mention, hitting through a door, which means you have no chance to block the projectile!)

So essentially, this just eliminated all use of rams, period, as long as there is one defender with 10 supply in his pocket.

After a few days with the siege disabler trap.

All I can say is that siege disabler need to be rebalanced *for rams*. On the first day siege disabler trap was already being used against rams to perma disable them. After only a couple days it is already the meta (Speaking from a top bronze-bottom silver perspective, don’t know about top tier but over here PVD is not always possible).

For the people who don’t know what I am referring to → Place siege disabler trap from within the fortification and disable rams on the outside of the gate. Rinse and repeat the operation.

Result is…Rams are now only used on sneak attempt. As soon as 2 or 3 defenders shows up against 15-20…we need to turn tail and go resupply to set catapults/trebs or simply hit another target (Yes 20 is what we start calling a zerg from that wvw rank perspective when it is not prime time). On NA prime time queuing a single map is a big kitten night for us (Friday reset night excluded since queuing one map on reset is the norm on EB).

As for catapults/trebs. It doesn’t seem to affect them as much and there should not be major change for them.

I just rage quit out of WvW for most likely my last time. These traps are sheer garbage. In the 2 hours or so I played, my map blob didn’t manage to take a single fortified objective. I thought maybe these traps would encourage more open field fighting, but instead enemy map blobs seem content to send out a few thieves to continuously disable all rams, catas, and trebs and sit smugly behind their walls. For the rest of us who aren’t thieves or attempting to man siege, these disabler traps have produced nothing but a whole lot of waiting and boredom.

It’s hilarious. Not only are we facing zergs, now we can’t go ninja a tower. Try to toss a siege disabler on Golems when facing a zerg and see how fast you melt.

As a primarily homeland commander I love this new siege disabler. It is one of THE ONLY things Anet has given us defenders that truly helps. Defenders get less, loot, less love, less karma, less xp. These are the first truly helpful thing we have gotten.

When they were first announced I was in a panic because I thought all my siege on walls would be useless and that it would be really hard to defend. While I admit it has been a challenge to siege up a keep or tower (I still haven’t fully had a chance to figure it out yet) these siege disablers have allowed me and the other homelanders hold towers/keeps long enough for extra hands to arrive. I know if makes offense harder, but they gave you guys the bannering the lord which made a defenders job harder they also gave offensive teams Gollie trait line which also makes a defenders job harder. So all in all I’d say defenders still got the short end of the stick and this trap is one of the few things we have.

Bottom line we must find a way to work with these in the game.

Working as intended. It’s really good and well balanced. It gives thieves a tactical role in WvW and makes things lots more interesting.

If a blob is constantly thwarted, maybe they should try something else?

We locked rams in SM today for about 2min, they still got the gate down by PvD’ing but it was lots of fun

1: 45 seconds is waaaaay too long

2: Any defender complaining about these hasn’t thought things through. These benefit defenders much more than they do attackers, because defenders can put siege in many areas where the disabler can’t reach.

3: The net effect of this thing on WvW is more waiting. You either wait out the disabler and hope your siege doesn’t get disabled again (it usually does), or you have to leave, get more supply, and come back with cats (which can also be disabled). Or you go to another objective. I think we should all be able to agree that “more waiting” is not a desirable gameplay outcome.

I really wish some dev or another could tell us what the INTENDED effect was for this on gameplay. I have a feeling that they don’t really know.

Yougottawanna.7420:

I really wish some dev or another could tell us what the INTENDED effect was for this on gameplay. I have a feeling that they don’t really know.

They literally told us in an interview that they had nothing else planned for WvW beside these kind of tricks. It’s hard to stay polite when you spent real money on the store to support them making new content and what you get instead in return are these completely broken gimmicks.

It is the reason why I haven’t bought gems for over 6 months and do not intend to buy more.

The new siege disabler looked like a bad idea from the start, and the implementation demonstrates that it was in fact a truly bad idea.

I use this disabler because it makes it a bit fairer when you have one side zerging everything and the other side only has a few in wvw. As for trolling aspect, that is the fun of it, knowing how mad I’m making them just to take a paper tower. (will they get the tower? Yes. But instead of capping in <1 min, they now have to wait a bit or plan ahead)

A lot of this will settle down some as people adjust to it. But where it should be good, disabling golems, where anet said they wanted it used, it is actually useless if they have a few golems and coordinate the bubble. This is where I really want it used, and it has no use whatsoever.

Problem is, to ‘fix’ this disabler, is very tricky. If nerfed a little it could be rendered more useless than a supply trap (only 5 supply removed from 20 people, kinda useless when you are dealing with a zerg).

If, as someone suggested, it had a minute before it could disable rams again… I’d be tempted to just probably right click/destroy the extra ones I have, because in 1 minute, I’ve seen a reinforced gate melt (in fact I’ve seen one melt in about 30 seconds…). Not able to disable a ram again until it has a chance to hit the door at least 1 time? That is fair. But a minute? No. That only encourages more of the problem we already have. 3 sup rams on gate, not much point defending that tower no matter how upgraded it is unless you have a zerg of your own coming.

There has to be a way to make this useful without being purely a troll rams/cata and roll over to golems thing because nothing you can do.

shouldn’t be able to disable seige from behind a gate / wall

Snorcha.7586:

shouldn’t be able to disable seige from behind a gate / wall

By the same token, a ram shouldn’t affect someone behind a gate, meteor shower shouldn’t hit behind a gate, all that aoe on gate shouldn’t prevent defenders from repairing gate without dying, etc…

The disabler is just one part of this bigger issue. It works under the same rules in that when it hits, it’s aoe. You could say well they’d have to click on the siege to throw it then… problem: zerg stands on the siege, you can’t click to select the siege to throw at, so that isn’t a solution either >.<

Eff this, just had one of these used against me as I ATTEMPTED to DEFEND my garrison. ANET you have ONE WEEK to come forth and make a statement about what you plan to do with this HORRIBLE MISTAKE (I ONLY play WvW, so I have NO other value for your game). If you don’t at least make some kind of statement within 7 days I will be uninstalling your client and never looking back! You’ve just ruined my whole experience!!!

TriFiredom.1386:

This is possibly the single most game-breaking “feature” I’ve ever seen. I’ve spent hundreds of hours commanding in wvw since the game launched. And in T1, good luck finding an un-scouted tower to use rams on at any time other than the the 3 am lull. Quite frankly, this to me shows Anet’s complete ineptitude when introducing new content, in doing proper testing, and in getting feedback from the community (who are the people they are maintaining the game for). Virtually everyone I’ve spoken with has had a negative opinion on this trap. Like the comments above, I agree with things like a nerf on the timer, or removing aoe, or cutting down the range, or putting immunity so that this isn’t abused. That would actually be fair and balance things. I already told my guild that if Anet doesn’t fix this in a month or two and I see that this is being abused, rendering particularly rams completely useless, I am quitting.

If they don’t get rid of this I am out of here too. As if it’s not bad enough siege is usually destroyed easily enough by a billion players AOEing it, now one person can disable it while they destroy it, making it harder to stop them from destroying it.

This has got to be ANETs BIGGEST screw up in the last, well, since the game launched!

sparc.3649:

If they don’t get rid of this I am out of here too. As if it’s not bad enough siege is usually destroyed easily enough by a billion players AOEing it, now one person can disable it while they destroy it, making it harder to stop them from destroying it.

This has got to be ANETs BIGGEST screw up in the last, well, since the game launched!

This is what has had me concerned as well about the disabler. Because it makes it easier for zergs.

Siege Disabler can be projectile block and reflected. If you Swirling Wind right next to a gate and someone tries to toss a disabler against it, then it will absorb it. We have knee-jerk reactions, everyone should try to counter it and let it settle down for a while.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

sparc.3649:

If they don’t get rid of this I am out of here too. As if it’s not bad enough siege is usually destroyed easily enough by a billion players AOEing it, now one person can disable it while they destroy it, making it harder to stop them from destroying it.

This has got to be ANETs BIGGEST screw up in the last, well, since the game launched!

This is what has had me concerned as well about the disabler. Because it makes it easier for zergs.

Yep, and so far I’ve only seen it benefit Ktrainers/Zergers Before when I could at least pelt the people trying to AOE our defensive siege down, with arrows (an AC), now they can disable it and take it out with no resistance :’(

Even though it’s only been around a few days, from what I’ve been experiencing and reading they may as well remove rams and ACs (and maybe even ballistas) =\

Once again us defenders get the short end of the stick!

So far what we have experienced is that with roughly even numbers of defenders and attackers, because our opponents server has a night-capping squad, after 3 hours this morning we were still unable to get back our Hills. They had sieged up Hills to the teeth, were firing siege disablers left right and center, sending out warriors and thieves to disable siege further out, etc. At the same time, very little of their siege was reachable from the outside, and that was usually taken out without the help of a siege disabler.

I am sure that this tool is helpful when defending against large groups with a small team, but it is ridiculously overpowered when used by large groups who are defending strategic locations. Like many other things in WvW, it favors high WvW population servers and especially those with 24/7 coverage.

It would have been better if they had come up with something that addressed the issues of coverage when servers have different capabilities in this area.

I am sure the meta will adjust, and some of the fights we had were epic, but the fact is that a large blob of mainly inept players can fight off a group of good players merely by use of this newest cheap trick.

I agree with some that the duration should be shortened. Currently placing siege with those around makes the siege pretty much useless, since it will be destroyed before it ever gets enabled again.

I didn’t like the idea of it when they announced it, and I don’t like it after seeing it in action. We tried all of last night to get Yak’s Bend out of their towers to fight, and it was siege disablers at every turn. You should have seen them scramble when we threw one on their arrow carts in SMC

RIP loot bags.

Yep, this change is MAJOR BS – they may as well just remove siege, and heck, the structures while they’re at it. And call it non structured PvP… This is ridiculous.

Almost as ridiculous as the fact that my petition thread was walled, censored, deleted – or whatever you wanna call it. So now I’m bringing the petition to their own facebook. That’s fine, I TRIED to give them the respect of keeping it a fairly private issue by posting about it own their own private boards. It’s apparent they don’t want that so now (even more enraged ofc that I’ve been censored) bring it to FB, and any other ‘venue’ that I can.

This really IS game breaking! (at least for WvW, and WvW is pretty much the only thing I really do!) Like I said, why not just take out siege, and heck take out all the structures too, and call it non-structured PvP >.<

This is insane!

These siege disablers have given me the most fun I’ve had for a while. (I mostly play defensively.) They do make things challenging for small groups trying to cap stuff.

I completely disagree with posts that suggest they give the advantage to the zerg/k-train. It’s true they disable siege on top of walls, but defenders have other options for siege placement. (I shouldn’t have to detail examples: remember that defensive siege has a greater than 1200 range) And in an objective with supply, the zerg/k-train will often run out of supply to throw more traps/lay more siege before you do. In an objective without supply, they still buy valuable time to call your own zerg.

Baron Oakley.1539:

These siege disablers have given me the most fun I’ve had for a while. (I mostly play defensively.) They do make things challenging for small groups trying to cap stuff.

I completely disagree with posts that suggest they give the advantage to the zerg/k-train. It’s true they disable siege on top of walls, but defenders have other options for siege placement. (I shouldn’t have to detail examples: remember that defensive siege has a greater than 1200 range) And in an objective with supply, the zerg/k-train will often run out of supply to throw more traps/lay more siege before you do. In an objective without supply, they still buy valuable time to call your own zerg.

No, in THEORY they give an advantage to ANYONE that has one. Only problem with this is, by nature (numbers/MATH) the Ktraining Zerging players WILL benefit MORE from this than anyone else. Why, because a Ktraining Zerg may have 100 of these traps on them, while my 5 man defense group may have/get a handful. So again, the defenders are getting the short end of the stick.

sparc.3649:

Only problem with this is, by nature (numbers/MATH) the Ktraining Zerging players WILL benefit MORE from this than anyone else. Why, because a Ktraining Zerg may have 100 of these traps on them, while my 5 man defense group may have/get a handful. So again, the defenders are getting the short end of the stick.

I’m not sure if I’m being trolled or you just haven’t thought about this very hard.

Each player can carry a stack of up to 250 of these. You can even carry extra stacks if you like. However, each player can only carry 20 supply at best, 10-15 being much more common. Remember that you cannot throw the trick if you have less than 10 supply, and 15 still lets you throw only one trick. Therefore, the limiting factor in placing these tricks isn’t how many players you have, it’s how much supply you have.

Defenders have the advantage of being much closer to a supply depot. A zerg that has spent supply on offensive siege will have many people with <10 supply and will have to run back to a camp (or other objective they own) for more.

Speaking of “numbers/MATH”, even if a zerg were to throw 100 siege disablers (which would require them to resupply) that would be a very lengthy siege. Throwing just 4 siege disablers (40 supply) buys you an entire 3 minutes to call for backup. Zergs can’t usually call for backup because they already represent the bulk of map presence.

until now the disabler forced the players REAL fight for their loot ….

well done anet … well done

I think it is a good addition to wvw and needed to counter to power creep with siege masteries. It could probably use a bit of balancing. Perhaps an area cooldown effect similar to local siege cap but with time duration to reduce the ease at which siege traps can be chained one after the other?

They are being used like candy now but then everyone has a few thousand badges saved up.