Guild Wars 2

I think one of the most annoying tasks in wvw is refreshing siege. It gives you no rewards whatsoever, same as guarding something that isn’t attacked. Why did Arenanet make it that siege despawns over time anyway? To screw the servers that cannot have enough people on 24/7? Big servers surely have no problem in refreshing siege every hour and thus keeping them alive for a long time.

I think it should be changed.
IF it stays this way that siege has a 1 hour cooldown after last used then there should be a w-xp reward for refreshing it. The reward should be depending on the time that is left on the siege with 4 wxp per 10 minutes (for example; siege that has 49 min left could be worth 4 WXP for refreshing, siege that has less than 10 min left 20 WXP per piece. If the siege has more than 50 minutes left there shouldn’t be points for it. So people have a little incentive for doing the task of refreshing the stuff.

But I think a even better solution would be to limit the time siege exists no matter when it is used. Siege should be alive for example for 6 hours after being built and then disappear as soon as nobody is using it. This would be fairer for the smaller servers that don’t have enough night crew to keep all siege refreshed anyway and it would raise the value of siege (too low atm imho). What do you think?

Disagree, if a siege limit is hit, a way is needed to clear them out to build better placed ones (without giving people the griefing ability to destroy friendly siege)

Rink.6108:

I think one of the most annoying tasks in wvw is refreshing siege. It gives you no rewards whatsoever

Your reward is the fact that you don’t have to drop new siege blueprints, or take the time and supply to rebuild it. If your server doesn’t have the coverage to visit Towers or Keeps by the time the hour despawn occurs, then you’d probably have lost it anyways when the location is capped by the enemy.

Or I recommend transferring to Black Gate. I hear they have 24/7 coverage.

stop watch

15 char

The 1-hour timer is the bane of my existence, and those precious few others who invest time, gold, badges, skill points and effort into building and maintaining siege. Such a short timer punishes those of us of have chosen to specialize in siege because the better job you do sieging up a keep or tower, the more onerous your task of keeping it alive.

After I siege up our Garrison and northern towers I always have first a sense of pride in my accomplishment, followed by a feeling of “OMG, what have I done? Now I have to keep all this $%+! alive, and beg and plead for others to do so, even when I’m away.”

The timer needs to be moved to 2 or 3 hours, and anyone who builds siege should have the ability to destroy their own siege so as to be able to deal with the siege cap.

The guy throwing multiple paper trebs at our upgraded keep supply depots loves your 6h idea.

@Vyx: first of, why don’t u place the siege in a way where u don’t have to replace it in the first place, second: how do u make sure any siege doesn’t get refreshed, just because you don’t like its positioning right now? Third: if you reach the siege limit and you still aren’t able to defend your place regardless of positioning of the siege you are doing something wrong.
The idea would help you with the siege limit, you can replace the siege as soon as the fixed time is over without anyone being able to just refresh it and I don’t see any arguments against the wxp. So why exactly are u against it again?

@penguin: it’s not a reward, as you as a refresher get nothing for doing the job. U can also keep the siege if someone else does the refresh.

@Typhus and how is it now? How long do those trebs last? Because on big servers they would just keep getting refreshed until the keep is taken, on small ones when you go there next time everything is gone, not only the treb, but everything else as well. So how is the status quo any better?

Already been proposed that, as a way to reward defense, resetting siege should give Rewards.
Never heard from Anet about it (except their general stance about their not wanting to reward people for just being around, which makes it hard for them to reward defense… another debate)

Anyway…
And it also have been stated over and over that refreshing siege was the way Anet found to limit grievers…

Edit @ Rink
(and on my medium server, when we say to please not refresh something (like normal, instead of superior, it usually is not refreshed… so, depends on who is there. But saw the map limit reached because one guy filled garnion with so many treb, ballistas, catas, ac, even defensive rams… we only had 2 AC in the two other forts, and a very little bit in the spawn towers… So yeah, quite easy to cap a map’s siege limit- it’s not even a hundred or so…)

Jocksy.3415:

And it also have been stated over and over that refreshing siege was the way Anet found to limit grievers…

A voting system might work, where a person can make a public request to be voted temporary “siege master” on the map, granting them the ability to destroy a limited number of weapons (around 10) for a limited time (around 20 minutes). This would allow removal of at least some grief siege, as well as poorly placed siege causing siege cap.

The current fix (1-hour despawn) leaves A LOT to be desired and turns those who care about siege into slaves to their own handiwork.

Rink.6108:

@penguin: it’s not a reward, as you as a refresher get nothing for doing the job. U can also keep the siege if someone else does the refresh.

You need to read my post again. By refreshing the siege, you don’t have to waste anymore blueprints or supply to place new ones. When you’re an active WvWer on higher tiered servers, you’ll come to cherish every bit of supply.

And as I also said, if your server doesn’t have the coverage to refresh, that means they probably don’t have the coverage to defend. Since you’d lose all the siege when the enemy takes over, you don’t have to worry about refreshing anymore.

slingblade.1437:

A voting system might work, where a person can make a public request to be voted temporary “siege master” on the map, granting them the ability to destroy a limited number of weapons (around 10) for a limited time (around 20 minutes). This would allow removal of at least some grief siege, as well as poorly placed siege causing siege cap.

that sounds good. I would like that change.

@jocksy okay, didn’t know the siege limit is reached so easily.

@penguin: yes, if the server has enough people on 24/7 to keep all their siege refreshed, then this server is awarded with not having to place new siege, thus damaging the small servers that aren’t able to do that. Still refreshers do not get any direct reward whatsoever atm for refreshing.
It is possible that small servers would lose that tower/keep where the siege despawns anyway, still I think the system shouldn’t make it even harder for them to keep it than it already is when being outnumbered. Making a system where siege doesn’t have to be refreshed would help (like I proposed).

You’re looking at it wrong. Low pop servers should have the incentive to go out and recruit more PvE players to WvW. Then you’ll have more coverage, rather than suggesting a change that only benefits a few servers, while adding huge negatives to the top tiers.

Simple – make players work for it rather than jumping in and out.

Every 15 minute (ie tick), placed siege loose 10% of their HP.
They can be repaired/maintained at a cost of 5 sups/10%. You get regular wxp for repair.
In order to avoid certain situations (oh hey that arrowcart is 50% hp, its cheaper to build a new next to it!), every identical piece of siege built within 20 meters doubles the cost each time. 4 arrowcarts built inside a tiny keep mean the first cost 30 supply to build, the second 60 supply, the third 120 supply and the fourth 240 supply. Make people appreciate maintaining and diversifying siege rather than spamming it.

Rink.6108:

@Vyx: first of, why don’t u place the siege in a way where u don’t have to replace it in the first place, second: how do u make sure any siege doesn’t get refreshed, just because you don’t like its positioning right now? Third: if you reach the siege limit and you still aren’t able to defend your place regardless of positioning of the siege you are doing something wrong.

1 – I’m not worried about ME placing siege, it’s that new person over there who found a blueprint in his inventory and wanted to throw it and everything else down trying to be ‘helpful’. I can’t control their actions (nor care to, just let us ‘clean up the mess’)

2 – People who refresh usually know which is the good siege, and which is the bad siege. If a bad siege gets refreshed every now and then shrug, with a 1 hour timer, the person who doesn’t know what bad siege is will need to sleep sometime

3 – See #1

Dawdler.8521:

Simple – make players work for it rather than jumping in and out.

Every 15 minute (ie tick), placed siege loose 10% of their HP.
They can be repaired/maintained at a cost of 5 sups/10%. You get regular wxp for repair.
In order to avoid certain situations (oh hey that arrowcart is 50% hp, its cheaper to build a new next to it!), every identical piece of siege built within 20 meters doubles the cost each time. 4 arrowcarts built inside a tiny keep mean the first cost 30 supply to build, the second 60 supply, the third 120 supply and the fourth 240 supply. Make people appreciate maintaining and diversifying siege rather than spamming it.

Hmmm. How many arrowcarts, catas, ballistas and trebs do you build when you prepare Garrison for a 30-player + 5 omega rush? How much supply would it take to build them, and how much per hour to maintain them?

How about superior siege have a longer decay time? And guild siege have an even longer decay time. That would motivate everybody to use superior siege and help lower tier servers.

slingblade.1437:

Hmmm. How many arrowcarts, catas, ballistas and trebs do you build when you prepare Garrison for a 30-player + 5 omega rush? How much supply would it take to build them, and how much per hour to maintain them?

… I play on Piken and most servers we meet siege up a wooden keep more than we siege up T3 garrison. I raid daily with one of the largest Piken guilds and can count the number of arrowcarts we build in a week on one hand. So I cant really answer that. Most of the time its none.

At least siege golems are fun to battle. I still think they should be cheaper and do less damage, to become much more common. Best WvW day that’s ever been was when EB broke and only allowed golems to be built. No arrowcarts, no trebs, no catapults, no nothing. Only golems. Well, maybe that day is tied with the time we joined WvW and ended up in a random server, lol

I dont mind siege, I dislike siege spamming (and subsequent refreshing). Both this should go. Make us work to maintain important siege. Refreshing is not maintaining siege, its getting in and getting out with no cost at all. Even a drooling idiot can do that.

Dawdler.8521:

Even a drooling idiot can do that.

Unfortunately it seems a lot of servers can’t find enough to maintain siege.

So far most of the ideas won’t make the situation better. It will just annoy everyone even more.
Communication is important. If no one knows where the siege is, it’s not surprise it won’t be refreshed when you log out. Refreshing siege is slightly annoying, but it’s not like it takes a long time to do.

Siege limit:

DonRobeez.3560:

DonRobeez.3560:

- Do we have a siege limit? If so, what happens if we cross it?

There are two basic hard limits to siege placement.

There is a limit to how many siege weapons can be placed within a certain radius of each other. We tried to set it to be fairly lenient, right now you can set 5 weapons (sites or completed weapons) within any 1000 unit radius. If you try to place a new site somewhere within a radius that already has hit it’s limit, the placement will fail but you should still have the weapon bundle in your hands so you can try to place it somewhere else.

There is also a hard limit to how many weapons can be placed on the map. This map limit is a bit harder to explain as it is based on some internal concepts that don’t translate well to laymans terms, but basically anything that is not a ram counts towards one ‘limit’ for the purpose of this explanation and each team can have up to 100 of these types of weapons out at any time per map. Each team can also have up to 100 rams placed on a map.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Willing-to-share-WvW-details/first#post1190009

Dawdler.8521:

slingblade.1437:

Hmmm. How many arrowcarts, catas, ballistas and trebs do you build when you prepare Garrison for a 30-player + 5 omega rush? How much supply would it take to build them, and how much per hour to maintain them?

… I play on Piken and most servers we meet siege up a wooden keep more than we siege up T3 garrison. I raid daily with one of the largest Piken guilds and can count the number of arrowcarts we build in a week on one hand. So I cant really answer that. Most of the time its none.

At least siege golems are fun to battle. I still think they should be cheaper and do less damage, to become much more common. Best WvW day that’s ever been was when EB broke and only allowed golems to be built. No arrowcarts, no trebs, no catapults, no nothing. Only golems. Well, maybe that day is tied with the time we joined WvW and ended up in a random server, lol

I dont mind siege, I dislike siege spamming (and subsequent refreshing). Both this should go. Make us work to maintain important siege. Refreshing is not maintaining siege, its getting in and getting out with no cost at all. Even a drooling idiot can do that.

I challenge you to properly siege up your Garrison so that it’s prepared to turn back at a minimum, a 30 man, 5 omega rush on any gate/wall. Hint: that’s roughly 30 pieces of siege, and ALL of them are important when you don’t have a the numbers on the map to wipe the enemy force. You’ll need to run the supply from camps, and you’ll also need to refresh all of those pieces. And while you’re at it, if those northern towers fall to a larger force than yours, your Garrison is in danger, so you’ll need to siege those (5-6 pieces per tower) and not let anything despawn there, too. You’ll need to defend and retake camps quickly so the prints you placed don’t despawn. Get all that set up, keep it refreshed for several hours, replace what despawns or gets destroyed, then get back to me if you think the current system doesn’t have a “cost.”

Some servers can get by by only using their numbers, but those are the exception, I think. If you don’t have dominant numbers, wise and diligent placement and maintenance (yes, maintenance because you are maintaining it’s existence via work, i.e., refreshing) of siege allows you to still have a chance win the match.

slingblade.1437:

Dawdler.8521:

slingblade.1437:

Hmmm. How many arrowcarts, catas, ballistas and trebs do you build when you prepare Garrison for a 30-player + 5 omega rush? How much supply would it take to build them, and how much per hour to maintain them?

… I play on Piken and most servers we meet siege up a wooden keep more than we siege up T3 garrison. I raid daily with one of the largest Piken guilds and can count the number of arrowcarts we build in a week on one hand. So I cant really answer that. Most of the time its none.

At least siege golems are fun to battle. I still think they should be cheaper and do less damage, to become much more common. Best WvW day that’s ever been was when EB broke and only allowed golems to be built. No arrowcarts, no trebs, no catapults, no nothing. Only golems. Well, maybe that day is tied with the time we joined WvW and ended up in a random server, lol

I dont mind siege, I dislike siege spamming (and subsequent refreshing). Both this should go. Make us work to maintain important siege. Refreshing is not maintaining siege, its getting in and getting out with no cost at all. Even a drooling idiot can do that.

I challenge you to set go properly siege up your Garrison so that it’s prepared to turn back at a minimum, a 30 man, 5 omega rush on any gate/wall. Hint: that’s roughly 30 pieces of siege, and ALL of them are important when you don’t have a the numbers on the map to wipe the enemy force. You’ll need to run the supply from camps, and you’ll also need to refresh all of those pieces. And while you’re at it, if those northern towers fall to a larger force than yours, your Garrison is in danger, so you’ll need to siege those (5-6 pieces per tower) and not let anything despawn there, too. You’ll need to defend and retake camps quickly so the prints you placed don’t despawn. Get all that set up, keep it refreshed for several hours, replace what despawns or gets destroyed, then get back to me if you think the current system doesn’t have a “cost.”

Some servers can get by by only using their numbers, but those are the exception, I think. If you don’t have dominant numbers, good use siege allows you to still have a chance win the match.

All servers are fully capable to be the “exception”. If your server is more PvE based, then of course you’ll have a sub-par quality in your WvW Borderlands. But look at TC. They’re the official Role Playing server, where the only thing they do all day long is talk in Divinity’s Reach, yet they’re an upper tier WvW server.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

All servers are fully capable to be the “exception”. If your server is more PvE based, then of course you’ll have a sub-par quality in your WvW Borderlands. But look at TC. They’re the official Role Playing server, where the only thing they do all day long is talk in Divinity’s Reach, yet they’re an upper tier WvW server.

The contradictions in this paragraph make my head hurt.

/agree to disagree