Guild Wars 2

When I roam in WvW, I run into outnumbered fights more often than I do 1v1’s or even-numbered fights (when I run havoc with a couple other people). I don’t mind this…outnumbered fights are pretty fun, but I would love it if more structures like ruins, walls, giant trees/rocks, huts, etc. were added around the BL’s and EBG. Because when you’re outnumbered, being able to LOS the enemy is huge and if you’re good at maneuvering and LOSing, you can win fights even if you’re outnumbered 8v2 (which I’ve won before). Anyway, like I said, these kinds of outnumbered fights can be really fun. But because most of the maps are pretty much just flat open field, there are really only a few limited places that are encouraging for doing outnumbered fights. So, Anet, could you please add/scatter some more stuff like ruins, walls and boulders/trees around the diff’t maps?

Back when Desert BL’s were around, there was this great spot just north of outer fire keep…these ruins…and they were so good for maneuvering around in outnumbered fights. I’d like more stuff like that added.

Sounds like you’re talking about pvp arenas with somewhat larger maps, and not about large scale wvw.

I’m talking about roaming/havoc and outnumbered fights, which are part of WvW.

Small amounts of cover could spice up any fight. As long as this cover doesn’t create a ton of choke points, it could add an extra element to all forms of open field combat. I like it. +1

Yea, I understand what you’re trying to talk about, based on your other post on this same subject in these forums. But that OP of yours sounds more like larger mapped pvp to me.

Plus, adding more structures and such would just cause massive QQs from people complaining about LOS, obstructions, etc…..Anet already removed some obstructions and barriers in dbl due to playerbase complaints. And you want to add more back in?

It might fit your mode of playing wvw, but it would cause more problems with the majority of wvwers.

And fwiw, I really enjoy running in small havoc squads. Some more added obstructions, vegetation, etc., wouldn’t bother me at all. But that doesn’t mean most of the wvw playerbase would enjoy it.

Cecilia, yeah, I’m not by any means asking for EVERY SQUARE INCH of EVERY MAP to be COVERED with structures to LOS around. I’m jut asking for a few more trees/rocks/ruins/walls/etc. scattered around diff’t areas of the map. Because on the BL maps, the way they are now, the best spots for outnumbered fights are really around the middle of the map and just north of south camp where there are walls/ruins/stairs/etc. to LOS around. Almost everywhere else is just mostly open space…there are some extremely thin trees scattered around, but…yeah…lol….they don’t provide much cover XD.

+1. Your best option to break LoS in ABL and EBG is to speed away or stealth. There should be more options since not all classes have that. And we need Roamers/Havoc in WvW, it shouldn’t just be about zerg on zerg fights.

Teon.5168:

Yea, I understand what you’re trying to talk about, based on your other post on this same subject in these forums. But that OP of yours sounds more like larger mapped pvp to me.

Plus, adding more structures and such would just cause massive QQs from people complaining about LOS, obstructions, etc…..Anet already removed some obstructions and barriers in dbl due to playerbase complaints. And you want to add more back in?

It might fit your mode of playing wvw, but it would cause more problems with the majority of wvwers.

And fwiw, I really enjoy running in small havoc squads. Some more added obstructions, vegetation, etc., wouldn’t bother me at all. But that doesn’t mean most of the wvw playerbase would enjoy it.

The complaint was that the barriers in the DBL’s made it hard for roamers/havoc parties to move around, not that it interfered with their ability to fight. That’s why they were removed, not because people hate having stuff to LOS around. And if I’m not mistaken, the obstructions that were removed from the DBL’s were obstructions related to the complaint of map mobility, not on the quality of fights/ability to LOS.

TBH Teon, IDK if this would cause ‘massive QQ’ from the WvW community, and neither do you. If it does, then so be it. But maybe it’ll be a change that helps improve the roaming/havoc scene (maybe even the zerging scene) because it gives smaller groups/solo players to have a slightly better chance of winning outnumbered fights, and people will actually either not mind it or enjoy it. Worth a shot to try it out, I think.

LionChain.7694:

Teon.5168:

Yea, I understand what you’re trying to talk about, based on your other post on this same subject in these forums. But that OP of yours sounds more like larger mapped pvp to me.

Plus, adding more structures and such would just cause massive QQs from people complaining about LOS, obstructions, etc…..Anet already removed some obstructions and barriers in dbl due to playerbase complaints. And you want to add more back in?

It might fit your mode of playing wvw, but it would cause more problems with the majority of wvwers.

And fwiw, I really enjoy running in small havoc squads. Some more added obstructions, vegetation, etc., wouldn’t bother me at all. But that doesn’t mean most of the wvw playerbase would enjoy it.

The complaint was that the barriers in the DBL’s made it hard for roamers/havoc parties to move around, not that it interfered with their ability to fight. That’s why they were removed, not because people hate having stuff to LOS around. And if I’m not mistaken, the obstructions that were removed from the DBL’s were obstructions related to the complaint of map mobility, not on the quality of fights/ability to LOS.

Disagree. I hate having LOS stuff around me and I mainly roam and lead a small havoc group almost nightly. My whole guild hated DBL because there were no fights, took too long to find anyone and we were constantly running in to idiotic PvE LOS blocking walls.

Josh, I’m going to guess that you hate the concept of LOSing because you and your friends are usually the ones outnumbering other people. Because if you were someone who fought outnumbered fights where you are the one outnumbered by 2 to 1 or more, having stuff to LOS around is pretty important and pretty awesome, especially if you’re not on a class with lots of stealth/teleports/blocks/invulns/reflects, so I genuinely don’t understand why you or anyone who frequently gets outnumbered in fights would hate it.

LionChain.7694:

Josh, I’m going to guess that you hate the concept of LOSing because you and your friends are usually the ones outnumbering other people. Because if you were someone who fought outnumbered fights where you are the one outnumbered by 2 to 1 or more, having stuff to LOS around is pretty important and pretty awesome, especially if you’re not on a class with lots of stealth/teleports/blocks/invulns/reflects, so I genuinely don’t understand why you or anyone who frequently gets outnumbered in fights would hate it.

Last week against Yaks Bend we were fighting 6 of us vs 15+ of them in towers and winning. Choke points are more important than LOS where you can just hide behind a tree and bounce out to press 1 lol. Putting them in a position where they have no where to run is what wins our fights a lot of times because they’re all bunched up taking all of our aoe damage.

Now in DBL, the towers were much larger, couldnt just run in to lords room and bomb and win – they could spread out or LOS behind a wall which ended up making them too spread out for us to do much more. So LOS in cases like that hurt way more than they help.

My group plays very aggressively if you haven’t already gathered that.

To make roaming great again, you need to get rid of the current stealth mechanics and tone the damage down to pvp standards.
We all know that won’t happen, so it would be wise to improve wvw and let roaming die.

gebrechen.5643:

To make roaming great again, you need to get rid of the current stealth mechanics and tone the damage down to pvp standards.
We all know that won’t happen, so it would be wise to improve wvw and let roaming die.

Stealth mechanic should have been removed from the game long ago in my opinion – most cheesy garbage this game has to offer. But whatever – different argument for a different time lol.

Damage of some things need toned down for sure, Revenants damage is just off the wall for how much survivability they have. Now thief damage is in line with their survivability, if I get ahold of a thief, they’ll get roasted in a matter of seconds. Except they can ususally just dodge 600 meters away and then shortbow 5 forever, then stealth and run away with their tail tucked.

Josh XT.6053:

LionChain.7694:

Josh, I’m going to guess that you hate the concept of LOSing because you and your friends are usually the ones outnumbering other people. Because if you were someone who fought outnumbered fights where you are the one outnumbered by 2 to 1 or more, having stuff to LOS around is pretty important and pretty awesome, especially if you’re not on a class with lots of stealth/teleports/blocks/invulns/reflects, so I genuinely don’t understand why you or anyone who frequently gets outnumbered in fights would hate it.

Last week against Yaks Bend we were fighting 6 of us vs 15+ of them in towers and winning. Choke points are more important than LOS where you can just hide behind a tree and bounce out to press 1 lol. Putting them in a position where they have no where to run is what wins our fights a lot of times because they’re all bunched up taking all of our aoe damage.

Now in DBL, the towers were much larger, couldnt just run in to lords room and bomb and win – they could spread out or LOS behind a wall which ended up making them too spread out for us to do much more. So LOS in cases like that hurt way more than they help.

My group plays very aggressively if you haven’t already gathered that.

Yeah, choke points are important when you’re fighting outnumbered, so is LOSing. In the case of DBL towers where you’re saying that you were having problems winning because the towers are ‘too big,’ the enemy players can just ‘hide behind a wall’ and you can’t just ‘bomb out the lord’s room,’ I think that’s more of an issue of you not being able to adjust your tactics to a tower layout that’s very different from the ABL tower layouts. If you try to use tactics that are suited for an ABL tower on a DBL tower, then you will probably not have a fun time because you are basing your tactics on environmental conditions that don’t exist (like one single narrow staircase, a very small lords room with one point of entry, less area to move around in etc.).

Because I’ve had outnumbered fights in towers in the DBL’s when they were around, and having things to LOS around like the houses in NWT were awesome.

I think adding foliage and debris and such can be cool (ABL ruins fights anyone?), but they need to be on the edges of main player movement channels so that there are still contestable, open battlegrounds.

yes let’s have a peek-a-boo meta…hrs of chasing ppl in circles around LOS objects. sounds like fun.~

condi/aids builds would become even more popular since your dmg continues to tic even when target is no longer in site.

Raolin Soulherder.3195:

yes let’s have a peek-a-boo meta…hrs of chasing ppl in circles around LOS objects. sounds like fun.~

condi/aids builds would become even more popular since your dmg continues to tic even when target is no longer in site.

This is exactly the problem.

Raolin Soulherder.3195:

yes let’s have a peek-a-boo meta…hrs of chasing ppl in circles around LOS objects. sounds like fun.~

condi/aids builds would become even more popular since your dmg continues to tic even when target is no longer in site.

As opposed to now where if you get caught in an outnumbered fight against 2+ ranged/stealth classes in open field with nowhere to retreat to/LOS around, you’re pretty screwed?

There are already a lot of losblocker and there are a lot what you cant see but block projectiles. There is one nearly in one of every single supply camp in the middle of nothing. The air just block projectiles. Lot of thieves abuse that bug

I’m guessing the OP runs a thief, where he can spend most of his time running around and then burst, so having LOS is just fine for him.

Lots of LOS objects for you to play with on the BLs now- run around those cap points to your hearts content. In fact, there’s plenty on EB too. If you’ve ever played a slow casting ranged class you know all about the number of LOS obstructions there are already.

We don’t need any more obstructions to skills that either take a long time to cast or are on a long cooldown.

If you get caught in open field against two or more enemies there is a good chance you’ll die, that’s the way the game is supposed to be. Learn not to run straight across the wide open spaces….