Guild Wars 2

Jethro.8725:

Here is the most simple way to fix the stale matchups.

If you come in first you move up, if you come in second you stay, if you come in third you drop down. This way you will be fighting two new teams each week.

…

What do you think?

Although I personally love this idea, from my perspective in T2, I think moving up/down each week may be too frequent. In some tiers it could result in constant steamrolling or getting steamrolled, neither of which is fun.

How about every other week or once per month moving up/down, with the rest of the time using a glicko system. Seems like a good compromise to me.

coglin.1867:

We had tournaments that were straight up set so the winner moves up and the loser moved down, with no floor or ceiling at all. Some servers did drop through the floor.

What? We never had any tournaments where there were no floor or ceiling. Gold, Silver, and Bronze are brackets that no server could cross even if their population size dictated the necessity. I think it is highly telling of these brackets that EU has a 9 server rotation that corresponds to their 9 server Gold league while NA had 6 servers locked at the top, which corresponds to NA’s 6 server Gold league.

The Swiss-style matches from Season 3 were to me nothing more than a FASTER METHOD to sort servers by population and coverage than glicko. I thought that was excellent.

coglin.1867:

Liston.9708:

coglin.1867:

Liston.9708:

And some servers were trapped because they could not rise above their bracket or drop below their bracket during a tournament……

That is wrong. We had tournaments that literally used the exact winner moves up to the next tier and loser moved down a tier, every week of the tournament, precisely like the system your describing.

It was an utter disaster. Just as I detailed in my post above. We very literally have tested this system through the tournaments, and it was a complete failure.

My memory could be failing, but was there not a ceiling and a floor? Silver could never get to t2 (gold) or t6 (bronze).

Each season that I recall had servers that would have dropped through that floor if they could-sor and maguuma come to mind. Some may have risen through that ceiling as well- hod comes to mind.

I will end it that I think comparing to a season / tournament where the stacked can’t rise far enough and the imploded can’t fall far enough is not comparable.

We had tournaments that were straight up set so the winner moves up and the loser moved down, with no floor or ceiling at all. Some servers did drop through the floor.

How is comparing a tournament not comparable? It was an literal trial of what your asking for. And what do you think will happen if they do a trial of this again? Players will stack and play more WvW then normal, exactly like they do in a tournament, in order to hold their position. Because they know it will be a short trial, so they will pile onto the servers just like a tournament.

I do not recall any tournament where a server could climb out of silver to gold or drop down from silver to bronze. I do remember people gaming the results to get an easier matchup or force another server to a tougher match by purposely losing (s2?). Those were for the end of the season points / rewards…

Anyway, we will never agree on this so no use continuing.

Thanks Chaba (YB and fa CAN get along) this is exactly what I recalled and why I think 1 up 1 down in a season/tourney != normal/standard matching.

No system will ever be perfect, but bottom line is what we have now doesn’t work either…

@johje – thanks for sort of walking it through. I agree at the very top and bottom it will be flip flop every other week for some time, but the in between seems much more interesting with the possibilities…

If Glicko is the only answer, would a reset / start over make some sense?

Liston.9708:

coglin.1867:

Liston.9708:

coglin.1867:

Liston.9708:

And some servers were trapped because they could not rise above their bracket or drop below their bracket during a tournament……

That is wrong. We had tournaments that literally used the exact winner moves up to the next tier and loser moved down a tier, every week of the tournament, precisely like the system your describing.

It was an utter disaster. Just as I detailed in my post above. We very literally have tested this system through the tournaments, and it was a complete failure.

My memory could be failing, but was there not a ceiling and a floor? Silver could never get to t2 (gold) or t6 (bronze).

Each season that I recall had servers that would have dropped through that floor if they could-sor and maguuma come to mind. Some may have risen through that ceiling as well- hod comes to mind.

I will end it that I think comparing to a season / tournament where the stacked can’t rise far enough and the imploded can’t fall far enough is not comparable.

We had tournaments that were straight up set so the winner moves up and the loser moved down, with no floor or ceiling at all. Some servers did drop through the floor.

How is comparing a tournament not comparable? It was an literal trial of what your asking for. And what do you think will happen if they do a trial of this again? Players will stack and play more WvW then normal, exactly like they do in a tournament, in order to hold their position. Because they know it will be a short trial, so they will pile onto the servers just like a tournament.

I do not recall any tournament where a server could climb out of silver to gold or drop down from silver to bronze. I do remember people gaming the results to get an easier matchup or force another server to a tougher match by purposely losing (s2?). Those were for the end of the season points / rewards…

Anyway, we will never agree on this so no use continuing.

Chaba.5410:

coglin.1867:

We had tournaments that were straight up set so the winner moves up and the loser moved down, with no floor or ceiling at all. Some servers did drop through the floor.

What? We never had any tournaments where there were no floor or ceiling. Gold, Silver, and Bronze are brackets that no server could cross even if their population size dictated the necessity. I think it is highly telling of these brackets that EU has a 9 server rotation that corresponds to their 9 server Gold league while NA had 6 servers locked at the top, which corresponds to NA’s 6 server Gold league.

The Swiss-style matches from Season 3 were to me nothing more than a FASTER METHOD to sort servers by population and coverage than glicko. I thought that was excellent.

Okay, sorry guys. It seems I may have been the one remembering it wrong.

Well, in that case, I change my opinion on the “trial comment”. As I tend to be a proponent of trying something in an event style or trial run, then I guess I would be in favor of 1U1D trial period for a short time to see how it goes in actuality.

displayname.8315:

Would 1 up 1 down work better than glicko? I’d say so.

Are people actually using seasons as a reason to keep the glicko freeze going? With winner up loser down you’d be getting the closest matchups possible still, and new opponents each week.

Any excuses about getting stomped in PPT is weak. Now that the population issues are getting worked on T2 should not get blown out by T1, nor T3 by T2 and so on.

The only real issue is people want to say “im in tier 3” or “tier 2 is like this and tier 1 is like this” which they couldn’t do anymore.

You have it right. Win and climb, lose and drop. And the way things are Tier 3 could hang with Tier 2. Sos an Fa don’t have the coverage and Fa has lost many guilds, especially their Ocx/Sea, many of which went to Tier 3 now. It’s just like Fa in the past and Yb now, both could have hung in Tier 1.

Other servers have blobs so don’t think because you are on a certain tier at the moment that has a lower number than another that you are better. This win/loss way seems the most fair. It’s better than any stupid gecko system where pulling punches and keeping PPT close skews the numbers. If you want an example of that just look at Jq on Tier 1. That blob does the most peculiar things and no reason they shouldn’t be doing a Yb job on Tc and Bg especially since Bg lost tons to Yb recently.

Chaba.5410:

coglin.1867:

We had tournaments that were straight up set so the winner moves up and the loser moved down, with no floor or ceiling at all. Some servers did drop through the floor.

What? We never had any tournaments where there were no floor or ceiling. Gold, Silver, and Bronze are brackets that no server could cross even if their population size dictated the necessity. I think it is highly telling of these brackets that EU has a 9 server rotation that corresponds to their 9 server Gold league while NA had 6 servers locked at the top, which corresponds to NA’s 6 server Gold league.

The Swiss-style matches from Season 3 were to me nothing more than a FASTER METHOD to sort servers by population and coverage than glicko. I thought that was excellent.

The two biggest problems with the NA tournaments were the fact that there was a lot of player movement right before the tournaments and that there’s such a huge difference in population/coverage between the tiers that any match with servers from three tiers in it was a joke.

Add to this the fact that sometimes the PvE players kept regular WvW players from playing and you can see why there is a lot of dislike for tournaments.

Until you can even out the population of the overstacked servers I wouldn’t want a 1U1D system.

I would much rather have a three tier WvW, a high cap, mid cap and low cap brackets, but the cap for each tier would be set based upon the population/coverage of the lowest server in each bracket.

coglin.1867:

Liston.9708:

coglin.1867:

Liston.9708:

coglin.1867:

Liston.9708:

And some servers were trapped because they could not rise above their bracket or drop below their bracket during a tournament……

That is wrong. We had tournaments that literally used the exact winner moves up to the next tier and loser moved down a tier, every week of the tournament, precisely like the system your describing.

It was an utter disaster. Just as I detailed in my post above. We very literally have tested this system through the tournaments, and it was a complete failure.

My memory could be failing, but was there not a ceiling and a floor? Silver could never get to t2 (gold) or t6 (bronze).

Each season that I recall had servers that would have dropped through that floor if they could-sor and maguuma come to mind. Some may have risen through that ceiling as well- hod comes to mind.

I will end it that I think comparing to a season / tournament where the stacked can’t rise far enough and the imploded can’t fall far enough is not comparable.

We had tournaments that were straight up set so the winner moves up and the loser moved down, with no floor or ceiling at all. Some servers did drop through the floor.

How is comparing a tournament not comparable? It was an literal trial of what your asking for. And what do you think will happen if they do a trial of this again? Players will stack and play more WvW then normal, exactly like they do in a tournament, in order to hold their position. Because they know it will be a short trial, so they will pile onto the servers just like a tournament.

I do not recall any tournament where a server could climb out of silver to gold or drop down from silver to bronze. I do remember people gaming the results to get an easier matchup or force another server to a tougher match by purposely losing (s2?). Those were for the end of the season points / rewards…

Anyway, we will never agree on this so no use continuing.

Chaba.5410:

coglin.1867:

We had tournaments that were straight up set so the winner moves up and the loser moved down, with no floor or ceiling at all. Some servers did drop through the floor.

What? We never had any tournaments where there were no floor or ceiling. Gold, Silver, and Bronze are brackets that no server could cross even if their population size dictated the necessity. I think it is highly telling of these brackets that EU has a 9 server rotation that corresponds to their 9 server Gold league while NA had 6 servers locked at the top, which corresponds to NA’s 6 server Gold league.

The Swiss-style matches from Season 3 were to me nothing more than a FASTER METHOD to sort servers by population and coverage than glicko. I thought that was excellent.

Okay, sorry guys. It seems I may have been the one remembering it wrong.

Well, in that case, I change my opinion on the “trial comment”. As I tend to be a proponent of trying something in an event style or trial run, then I guess I would be in favor of 1U1D trial period for a short time to see how it goes in actuality.

No worries from my end…. 1U1D may iN the end work exactly like you think, but one will never know unless it is tried. 2 months of status quo which may or may not bring new people in via HOT just seems too long…….

I like the 1u1d idea.

Won’t work at all except for one exception.

Population differences between servers (even those adjacent in ratings) are so wide that you’ll just have servers bouncing from steamrolling into first place one week and getting smashed to bits the following week. Meanwhile, the number two server stays number two every single week.

The one exception is when one server implodes or gets bandwagoned. This’ll move them into proper position faster. But is that worth unbalancing every matchup every week?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Won’t work at all except for one exception.

Population differences between servers (even those adjacent in ratings) are so wide that you’ll just have servers bouncing from steamrolling into first place one week and getting smashed to bits the following week. Meanwhile, the number two server stays number two every single week.

The one exception is when one server implodes or gets bandwagoned. This’ll move them into proper position faster. But is that worth unbalancing every matchup every week?

That’s why you reset all servers (and condense servers at this point) before implementing.

Condense NA to 9-12 servers, then go with the 1u1d.

I say you also take the bottom six servers in NA and maybe make them into 3 and then see what that looks like. But Bg just got dropped into T2 tonight so something is working. Lets see what happens now that there are 6 servers fighting new battles and not stale matchups. Yb will have something to prove and so does T2 and Bg. We will see how big Yb and Jq fights are and see if Bg was being propped up. One up one down on T1 and T2 just added some life to dead matchups.

Hey Hey Hey. BG got dropped regardless of how. Now we will see when the smoke clears and the grind of the week starts how it will pan out. I know FA is juiced up about not seeing the siege capped, guard hugging, portal diving blobs of YB. Means fights and more, thank the Lord.