Guild Wars 2

Most people that have an interest in non-zerg play are either gone already, or just coasting along. GW2 is another MMO that decided for competitive PvP they were going to set the bar so low even pets can play.

I’m not sure how what server you are on, but there are several important roles that can be played in WvW aside from following a large group.

For example:
- Tower defense: If you plan on keeping anything, especially during primetime, you need people to man siege to keep groups from capping locations, and keep towers/keeps under siege repaired.

- Scouts: Your commander(s) preform a hell of a lot better if you have at least one scout per large group of enemies to keep them informed of enemy movement. Especially if you want to optimize ppt on a map.

- Runners: People to run yaks to make sure they get to each tower so you don’t get low on supply.

There are a few more, but hopefully this provides you with a couple of roles other than just following the zerg. The main thing is that all of these roles need to have good communication with their commander/guild. If you’re the guy in a PVE guild who just hops into WVW occasionally, you might not notice these roles, but if you’re in a halfway decent wvw guild your commander(s) should be stressing the importance of these roles in the overall scheme of running a map.

If you’ve noticed with the new matchup system, a lot of the lower ranked servers are getting facerolled by the #1,2,3 and this is exactly why. Top notch servers have people in every tower they plan on keeping and they have several scouts per map to keep track of the enemy’s movements.

Ideally, there should be at least 2 groups running a single map and only combine forces for large ventures (like taking a keep). One group should be responding to already owned territory, while the other should be putting pressure on the other two servers by forcing them to stay in their corners by taking their stuff.

Note: Not all of these are “fun” and a lot of people don’t like doing this. Loot isn’t always the best, but they are important positions for any server. If you are a commander and reading this, make sure you switch your guys out on tower/keep duty regularly, don’t leave someone in a tower and expect them to be there all night.

Do you want to be in a guild where the commander expects you to sit in a tower all night in case a rabbit wanders past?

Sorry, I don’t call that ‘half-way decent’, I call it kitten stupid. If the number of the server means that much to you, you have a serious problem.

You may as well go out and get a second job – at least you get paid for it.

Contiguous.1345:

Do you want to be in a guild where the commander expects you to sit in a tower all night in case a rabbit wanders past?

Sorry, I don’t call that ‘half-way decent’, I call it kitten stupid. If the number of the server means that much to you, you have a serious problem.

You may as well go out and get a second job – at least you get paid for it.

Like I said, a good commander will rotate people in and out of who sits in a tower, runs yaks, or whatever. Believe it or not there are people who actually enjoy doing this stuff too.

I can’t say that I know whakittens like on your server, or playing against the servers that you do, but I can guarantee you that if JQ or BG just flipped stuff and left it completely undefended it would just turn right back over to whoever they took it from as soon as the 5 minute buff wore off the lord/supervisor. If they left a bunch of yaks to roam without some kind of guard or defense, all we would have to do is have a single player run around and kill yaks all night until they’re so supply starved they can’t defend a single point and push them off the map.

Its called teamwork. You have to work together to do well WvW. If everyone simply herded together on a single map you would accomplish very little, not to mention your keeps would be paper for an entire week.

Clockradio, my experience playing on both SOR and JQ what you said about flipping and leaving happens very often by choice. The game is designed to be one big karma train and moving away from it is unrewarding and less mentally stimulating than banging your head against the wall. This is never going to change. WvW is destined to be a big flop.

I’ve noticed a similar thing. one thing that I think is contributing on my server (TC) is the uneven matchups. From my side, everyone is bored and just looking for a fight. So when those swords show up, everyone on the map converges and you get a 40 man zerg or more. On the other side, people are tired ofbeing whiped by massive zergs so they start zerging up too…making sure to have a big group before venturing out.

I like to solo-roam or small group-roam, and the game has gotten less fun, since relatively even matchups are hard to come by. I spend a lot of time looking for a fight, but then cant engage because I’m way outnumbered (because they waited in spawn until they had the numbers).

IMO, SPvP is for the competitive side of PvP. WvWvW was designed for casual players to go and get a taste for PvP. I believe that W3 is working exactly the way that ANET designed it.

The maps encourage massive armies (Zergs if you like) fighting over contested areas. The size of the Zerg is in direct portion to the number of casuals playing.

Your fear that it will never change is probably valid. If this is a bad thing for the health of the game however remains to be seen.

Estus.1726:

I believe that W3 is working exactly the way that ANET designed it.

The problem is, sPvP isn’t.

i love and hate wvw because its got so much going for it but they just miss the mark everytime, the tactics in wvw or so boreing anyone with a brain can do it, blob up and run forward press 1, really insane play style, but i my self still do it for what and why i still dont know.

Estus.1726:

IMO, SPvP is for the competitive side of PvP. WvWvW was designed for casual players to go and get a taste for PvP. I believe that W3 is working exactly the way that ANET designed it.

The maps encourage massive armies (Zergs if you like) fighting over contested areas. The size of the Zerg is in direct portion to the number of casuals playing.

Your fear that it will never change is probably valid. If this is a bad thing for the health of the game however remains to be seen.

Taking a pvp platform model from dark age of a tri-faction open world system (where some of THE most competitive player vs player group vs group play has ever occurred in mmo history) and using that for casual play is a HORRIBLE foundation to build for a long lasting customer base.

Like Niim said anyone who came here for competitive small group play has either left or just coasting until a better game comes out that’s more competitive. It’s just casual land… Blows donkey (insert here).

Jscull.2514:

Estus.1726:

IMO, SPvP is for the competitive side of PvP. WvWvW was designed for casual players to go and get a taste for PvP. I believe that W3 is working exactly the way that ANET designed it.

The maps encourage massive armies (Zergs if you like) fighting over contested areas. The size of the Zerg is in direct portion to the number of casuals playing.

Your fear that it will never change is probably valid. If this is a bad thing for the health of the game however remains to be seen.

Taking a pvp platform model from dark age of a tri-faction open world system (where some of THE most competitive player vs player group vs group play has ever occurred in mmo history) and using that for casual play is a HORRIBLE foundation to build for a long lasting customer base.

Like Niim said anyone who came here for competitive small group play has either left or just coasting until a better game comes out that’s more competitive. It’s just casual land… Blows donkey (insert here).

Agree 100%

Believe me, our guild looked for another game to play, but there really is nothing else out there right now. There are either outdated games: Aion, LOTRO PvMP, or ones with a slightly different dynamic Darkfall Unholy Wars.

Wildstar won’t have objective based world PvP when it launches (thought they might add it later).

So GW2 is it until ESO comes out.

If you hate running with the zerg. Don’t your borderlands and the enemy borderlands would love the company.

If the number of the server means that much to you, you have a serious problem.

I don’t get you people. You guys come into the WvW forum, whine that there’s nothing but zerging, and then when people explain other useful things you can do that help your team and don’t involve zerging you say that the score and winning don’t matter to you.

Why are you in WvW at all, then? You don’t like the zerg, you don’t like defending or doing other things that help your server, you don’t care about the score…so why? What brings you in there? Why aren’t you just doing sPvP/tPvP or PvE?

It just makes no sense to me to keep doing something that you don’t apparently like anything about.

Bovinity.8610:

If the number of the server means that much to you, you have a serious problem.

I don’t get you people. You guys come into the WvW forum, whine that there’s nothing but zerging, and then when people explain other useful things you can do that help your team and don’t involve zerging you say that the score and winning don’t matter to you.

Why are you in WvW at all, then? You don’t like the zerg, you don’t like defending or doing other things that help your server, you don’t care about the score…so why? What brings you in there? Why aren’t you just doing sPvP/tPvP or PvE?

It just makes no sense to me to keep doing something that you don’t apparently like anything about.

I’ll make it very clear for you buddy. The competitive small man teams come from games 3-10 years ago with open world roaming competitive based pvp. Clearly you haven’t experienced this or else you wouldn’t have posted what you did. World vs world in gw2 is the first 3-faction open world system in 6-7 years. All other have been 2 faction or just garbage. You have people in this game that actually came here SOLEY to kill players, not wanting to feel “epic” by having 60 people in a fight or sitting on siege. They actually want to push themselves personally with their character and other teammates characters to win battles that are super hard to win. Like. 3v10+ or a 5v 15 or even better a 5v5 fighting a team more organized and better talented then your own….

I’ll make it very clear for you buddy. The competitive small man teams come from games 3-10 years ago with open world roaming competitive based pvp. Clearly you haven’t experienced this or else you wouldn’t have posted what you did.

Bad news, I played all those games too. Nice try.

You have people in this game that actually came here SOLEY to kill players, not wanting to feel “epic” by having 60 people in a fight or sitting on siege.

Oh hey, really? You mean like…oh, I dunno…sPvP or tPvP, like I said?

or even better a 5v5 fighting a team more organized and better talented then your own….

Sounding more and more like sPvP here, wow!

And hey “buddy”…even if you don’t want to do sPvP and you still just want to run around with a 5-man ganking people in WvW and thinking that makes you a tough PvPer, you can still do that, too. If you don’t care about the scores and you don’t care about sieges and you don’t care about the keeps, then why do you care that “zerging is the only way to win”?

I do roaming groups all the time either solo or with 2-5 people and we do just fine. So…you know…maybe you’re creating your own problem here.

Jscull.2514:

I’ll make it very clear for you buddy. The competitive small man teams come from games 3-10 years ago with open world roaming competitive based pvp. Clearly you haven’t experienced this or else you wouldn’t have posted what you did. World vs world in gw2 is the first 3-faction open world system in 6-7 years. All other have been 2 faction or just garbage. You have people in this game that actually came here SOLEY to kill players, not wanting to feel “epic” by having 60 people in a fight or sitting on siege. They actually want to push themselves personally with their character and other teammates characters to win battles that are super hard to win. Like. 3v10+ or a 5v 15 or even better a 5v5 fighting a team more organized and better talented then your own….

And that is different then custom arena’s or sPvP how? You will actually get what you want there while in WvW it is up to the luck of the draw and who is on that day on if you will get what you want.

Yep….our guild leaders tell peeps to let them know in 15 to 20 min, if they want to swap out. We always rotate, unless one wants to sit it out for awhile. I tend to eat n such, while on guard duty.

As for 60 players zerging…. more than likely yer seeing 25 to 35 in a specific group…the rest are usually stragglers…. I.E. free lootz, and bonus Rallies. At least that’s the way it seems in the T2 level of things. Tho there is the rare large ones…but its not everywhere all the time.

We tend to live in a “want it now” type of society. And WvW isn’t that way. I tend to do a lot of different roles…and really only zerg it a few times a week.

Bovinity.8610:

Sounding more and more like sPvP here, wow!

You get 5v5s in sPvP? That’s news to me!

You get 5v5s in sPvP? That’s news to me!

Go check out those tournament things. Or custom arenas. Ta-da.

I guess I am the bringer of news!

“or even better a 5v5 fighting a team more organized and better talented then your own….”
You have heard of tPvP/sPvP, right…?

Estus.1726:

IMO, SPvP is for the competitive side of PvP. WvWvW was designed for casual players to go and get a taste for PvP. I believe that W3 is working exactly the way that ANET designed it.

While you are right, WvW was meant to be casual, the problem with s/tPvP is that it doesn’t provide the full depth of combat that GW2 provides.

s/tPvP is great for mastering a class and people who play this mode are some of the best at it, but, mastering and really understanding how your class works is only one-half of the depth of combat that GW2 offers.

The second-half is the depth that comes from working together with a good five man and building interconnecting builds. This is also why some of the classes seem less “qualified” for s/tPvP compared to others, since most builds are more independent. Where as for a 5-man that picks traits, utilities, and classes that all work together as a single unit, every class can be made to be advantageous, the combinations are endless.

This is what small roaming groups are trying to master, but unfortunately there is just not enough of them to get enough practice and experience to even begin scratching the surface of the depth that can be achieved with interconnecting builds. However, it is still quite fun to try to figure this portion of the combat out.

Right now s/tPvP is more a individualized skill/build game with the group play coming from the RTS elements by controlling the points, groups that want to get the depth of both individual character understanding and group development look to WvW. We can only hope that as time progresses more small man roaming groups pop up over time. GW2 is an amazing game with lots of possibilities and depth and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a whole new WvW landscape in the next few months.

Bovinity.8610:

I guess I am the bringer of news!

Aren’t custom arenas still in beta and only accessible to some currently?

anzenketh.3759:

And that is different then custom arena’s or sPvP how? You will actually get what you want there while in WvW it is up to the luck of the draw and who is on that day on if you will get what you want.

sPvP is a static, point based environment, it is not similar at all, even our toons do not play the same in sPvP.

Roaming play in WvW is about variety and the surprise. Everything from build to numbers is different, and because it is different your own build and group composition must be tailored to handle a wide assortment of situations, not a set static setup based on a given map like in sPvP.

I have no issues with zergs, I think they are an important part of the game. I have issues with a game that does not promote people moving beyond the zerg, advancing their play to add strategy and tactics to the game. PvP is about competitive play, even in WvW.

It really seems like we have a lot of people in this thread who quite simply don’t want to be satisfied.

That is what zerg busting guilds are for. 20 people taking out 40+ man zergs isn’t hard to find. Go search youtube.

Bovinity.8610:

It really seems like we have a lot of people in this thread who quite simply don’t want to be satisfied.

So you’re ignoring my question?

So you’re ignoring my question?

Seemed a lot like a, “Question I already know the answer to.” sort of thing to me. Not something I was going to bother with.

It kinda was… I actually am not completely sure since I haven’t been paying attention recently to the custom arena updates… but if it is indeed still in beta then maybe you’d realize that WvW is the only place to get 5v5s. sPvP/tPvP are great for 1v1, 1v2, 1v3. 5v5s don’t happen naturally.

I suppose that’s true if we’re talking on a strictly technical level…but I’d say you have more of a chance of having a 5v5 deathmatch battle (I assume that’s what everyone is all hot and bothered to get) in a sPvP/tPvP match than you are in a WvW map randomly roaming about.

Niim.9260:

anzenketh.3759:

And that is different then custom arena’s or sPvP how? You will actually get what you want there while in WvW it is up to the luck of the draw and who is on that day on if you will get what you want.

sPvP is a static, point based environment, it is not similar at all, even our toons do not play the same in sPvP.

Roaming play in WvW is about variety and the surprise. Everything from build to numbers is different, and because it is different your own build and group composition must be tailored to handle a wide assortment of situations, not a set static setup based on a given map like in sPvP.

I have no issues with zergs, I think they are an important part of the game. I have issues with a game that does not promote people moving beyond the zerg, advancing their play to add strategy and tactics to the game. PvP is about competitive play, even in WvW.

Ahh on that I would agree to a degree.

Perhaps this thread is where your comments would be more beneficial fix the game mechanics that are causing people to be discouraged from upgrading and defending you fix the zerg issue.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Discouraged-from-Upgrading-Towers

My point is more instead of complaining that it is a zergfest help the community identify why it is a zergfest and inform others that there are other (sometimes more profitable options).

And the game does reward non-zerging people just don’t realize it.

For example if I am defending a keep under attack that is well sieged I will get more coin and karma and a decent amount of bags in 15 minutes then I will running in the zerg in EB. Why rewards come every 3 minutes. A sustained siege and attack is much more rewarding then a karma train.

Bovinity.8610:

I suppose that’s true if we’re talking on a strictly technical level…but I’d say you have more of a chance of having a 5v5 deathmatch battle (I assume that’s what everyone is all hot and bothered to get) in a sPvP/tPvP match than you are in a WvW map randomly roaming about.

It happens much more often in WvW roaming (at least on lower tiers). sPvP/tPvP I have never seen it unless it was organized to be a deathmatch by the groups. No team is dumb enough to run around with 5 players capping points.

I guess my point was that saying “go to sPvP” to find what we are looking for isn’t a valid suggestion.

I think the problem with blobs is the lag it causes the server, disabling any skill that isn’t auto attack.
I doubt zerg busting guilds can even do anything vs a big blob with just auto attack.

Zerg didn’t used to be the way. We all used to wander the maps in singles and small groups all the time. After all, in reality we’re all just strangers on the Internet.

But in other games the zerg worked so well that mega-guilds formed around it. It stifled those games as well, players hated it as well.

Unfortunately some of those guilds came to GW2 since day one. On certain servers it’s been the dominant style since the beginning, and all who play them regularly have to assimilate.

It’s not fun, but unless WvW design changes to make the zerg impractical it will probably spread where it can.

Zerg didn’t used to be the way. We all used to wander the maps in singles and small groups all the time. After all, in reality we’re all just strangers on the Internet.

But in other games the zerg worked so well that mega-guilds formed around it. It stifled those games as well, players hated it as well.

Unfortunately some of those guilds came to GW2 since day one. On certain servers it’s been the dominant style since the beginning, and all who play them regularly have to assimilate.

It’s not fun, but unless WvW design changes to make the zerg impractical it will probably spread where it can.

Bear in mind that just because the zerg exists doesn’t mean small groups can’t also exist. That seems to be the assertion people are making here, that just because there’s a larger group somewhere on the map, that they can’t have a 5-man racking up points for their team, and very effectively.

It happens much more often in WvW roaming (at least on lower tiers).

Yeah, but my experience with that (and being IN those groups) is that what happens is the organized 5-man roams around ganking solo people or smaller, PUG groups, and everyone pats themselves on the back for being awesome at PvP. Which is fine, but it’s not what I do when I’m looking for a competitive fight.

Bovinity, I’m not trying to start beef with you, but our 5man that runs the same guys everyday… Has videos of killing 3-4x our number. The argument for 5 mans is there is not ANY competition because the entirety of the rest of the gw2 population is ONLY zerging. My argument is simple. Not arrogant, simple.

1. Zerg because you are new and need to just figure out mmo’in, your own class/abilities
2. Organize in said Zerg to actually become effective and produce outcomes
3. Friendlist guys you run with consistently
4. Begin to run even when there really isn’t a Zerg with said friendlist people of equal or similar skill
5. HERE’S THE BIG ONE…………….GRADUATE FROM ZERG SCHOOL
6. Begin hashing out group make ups, player makeup (personnel), class builds
7. Look for the best small man guilds and do your homework to beat them or at least put out a solid effort
8. Make the focus to beat the best PLAYERS, not towers with their npcs

The zergs argument of “go spvp” isn’t valid as my colleague Osif pointed out. Spvp is literally bunker builds and capture the flag. Nothing to do with killing enemy builds/groups. The zergs argument of “5 mans only kill solo roamers” isn’t valid as we on a daily basis along with many other good veteran small man guilds take down double to triple our size groups. It isn’t a Pepe measuring contest. Not here to be arrogant or brag…. I’m just saying that what Lecreaux said was more accurate than you gave him credit for.

If there was actually a way to form forces OTHER than just 5 man groups or massive zergs it would be a much more dynamic WvW. Think about it, lots of medium sized forces would spread the fighting out over more of the zones. A zerg can only be in one place at a time.

Without any control over a force size or makeup we’ll never know. I’m talking about a decent in-game way to make private forces. Running multiple 5 man groups together with only a 3rd party vent to communicate is not a decent system for creating medium forces. You need a way to create private squads or something similiar for guild forces or keeping the squad under 25 people.

aathomas.4638:

Right now s/tPvP is more a individualized skill/build game with the group play coming from the RTS elements by controlling the points, groups that want to get the depth of both individual character understanding and group development look to WvW. We can only hope that as time progresses more small man roaming groups pop up over time. GW2 is an amazing game with lots of possibilities and depth and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a whole new WvW landscape in the next few months.

Looks like you never play tPvP. If this true, a pug pro player can beat a premade one, which is rarely happen. (I had seen, 1 pug team all lvl 20++ (rank) is being decimated by a premade one (to your surprise, 2 of their member not even rank 10)). In premade team, build is matter. Here your individual skill and your group skill (small) is tested. If you can/your team can, I believe 90% your time will win the game.

In WvW you improve connection between group, not inner group. You can imrpove your inner group connection, but not so that deep in WvW. (You roaming for what ? Looking 1 or 2 player to kill in WvW (1 or 2 vs 5 ? skill ? need cooperation of group ?) ? Killing NPC ? Roaming group in WvW is same as roaming group in PvE)

PvP room for only bunker build ? True and false. Many player believe bunker is the best. But is it ? Its back to player skill. Bunker will be bunker if that player now what they are doing, if not bunker will just be a “bunker” which easily defeated by a berserker build class. (I had seen guardian can bunker a point from 4 people, but I also had seen a bunker guardian can only bunker a point from 2 people.)

Massive zergs in WvW is natural, but it is worsen by the distance between object. WvW maps need to be larger, if they can each BL size need to be fifth time, while EB need to be 10 time. If they cant, just make, if you come into WvW, your movement speed is reduced for 50% (including NPC speed).

deviller.9135:

aathomas.4638:

Right now s/tPvP is more a individualized skill/build game with the group play coming from the RTS elements by controlling the points, groups that want to get the depth of both individual character understanding and group development look to WvW. We can only hope that as time progresses more small man roaming groups pop up over time. GW2 is an amazing game with lots of possibilities and depth and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a whole new WvW landscape in the next few months.

Looks like you never play tPvP. If this true, a pug pro player can beat a premade one, which is rarely happen. (I had seen, 1 pug team all lvl 20++ (rank) is being decimated by a premade one (to your surprise, 2 of their member not even rank 10)). In premade team, build is matter. Here your individual skill and your group skill (small) is tested. If you can/your team can, I believe 90% your time will win the game.

In WvW you improve connection between group, not inner group. You can imrpove your inner group connection, but not so that deep in WvW. (You roaming for what ? Looking 1 or 2 player to kill in WvW (1 or 2 vs 5 ? skill ? need cooperation of group ?) ? Killing NPC ? Roaming group in WvW is same as roaming group in PvE)

PvP room for only bunker build ? True and false. Many player believe bunker is the best. But is it ? Its back to player skill. Bunker will be bunker if that player now what they are doing, if not bunker will just be a “bunker” which easily defeated by a berserker build class. (I had seen guardian can bunker a point from 4 people, but I also had seen a bunker guardian can only bunker a point from 2 people.)

Massive zergs in WvW is natural, but it is worsen by the distance between object. WvW maps need to be larger, if they can each BL size need to be fifth time, while EB need to be 10 time. If they cant, just make, if you come into WvW, your movement speed is reduced for 50% (including NPC speed).

The reason a “pug pro” player can’t beat a premade one is because of the RTS strategy that they won’t be able to pull off with their pug group compared to a good premade. Now, if you got a bunch of “pug pro” that joined together and got on a VOIP then they more than likely would be able to win, but then that wouldn’t be a pug would it.

It is true that for s/tPvP is important to have a good team comp to take on the different roles required to effectively use your team’s RTS strategies, but how much your team’s individual builds interrelate to each other is limited by the fact that more then not you’re not fighting 5v5, this means that in general you won’t revolve all your traits and utilities around the other 4 people in your party.

This is however, what small roaming groups in WvW try to do, to the point that where individually, each build is at a handicap to any 1v1 build, which is also why a lot of people complain that 5-mans never 1v1, but that’s not their game. A 5-man that builds so that the 5 players are playing as essentially one, means that to be super effective they all need to be together. Because of this, when a 5v5 happens, the battle is generally over once one of teams has a person fully downed.

I agree that the inner group connection is not deep in WvW yet, but that is simply because, as stated in my earlier post, there isn’t enough 5v5 teams for each one to fight to get the experience to fully understand all that can be done with interconnecting builds, the way that most players are starting to get a full grasp on their individual professions. But this connection that some are trying to do in WvW simply cannot be done in s/tPvP as stated above and in my earlier post, at least not with the game mode that is there right now.

Also, it appears you have a grudge against 5-mans, most of the ones I know wouldn’t chase down 2-3 people unless they were at a camp they went to or just happened to be in route. Either of which you have no right to complain because that will happen whether it’s a 5 man or a 20 man regardless, though a 20 man would more than likely go out of their way to chase you.

Lastly, I agree with you about the speed, I’ve made a couple of posts saying that the in-combat speed should be the only speed with my reasons.

Now I’ve been playing in WvWvW for some time and want to share some fresh look at it which very well fits the thread name.

It’s kinda fun playing in striking groups, assaulting enemy towers and etc, but when it comes to zerg vs zerg fight, like for the main Keep, it’s just loosing any sense…
Hundreds of players from both sides collide in pretty small area like throne room,
and even if you run NASA computer, you’ll get maybe 5 FPS at this rate, zerg just
running here and there, players fall in this raids like flies, noone can control actual
combat, just run with zerg and swing weapon, after an hour of this pitifull slideshow,
the side who had more ppl simply wins, running over and over other group.

I haven’t ever seen any real openfield fight that require some skill, mostly it looks like this: we run like crazy all stacked on commander, far away seeing small group of enemies, running over them (without actual beating or fight), then run for rest 20-30
minutes and striking at some fort, there comes 3 times larger enemy zerg group that running over us, without any actual fight, those who are lucky of us are flee or wp at base,
than we stack on commander once again and run for another 10-30 mins by the same
scenario. Sometime we stack up on commander knowing about attack, we face other zerg, if ours is bigger we run over enemy and win, if not – vice-versa.
I have tryied roaming, so that’s seemed ridiculous too. If I see more than two players,
there’s no chance I win, so run or wp, if I encounter small group or lonely player and with my friends, enemies are 90 % dead, 10 % they might get away.

Can anyone honestly explain me the point of this mode? Because it has awesome potential, but when there are more than 100 lvl 80 players on one side, there can
be no battle just stupid stomping each other. If there would be some areas with
restricted combat zones with numbers like 20 on 20, 50 on 50. At the moment this
mode just doesn’t makes any sense in terms of skills or epic battles IMO. Would be
glad to hear, if I don’t see something others do.

I tell you all this stacking is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

" who touched my butt ? "

After playing w v w for approximately four months I have only experienced game play against one server with massive zergs; not only did they have massive zergs they also had enough players to have scouts in supply camps, towers…everywhere. More often than not when we tried to capture anything their zerg would be informed and our side ended up decimated (20 vs 50 or more, no chance). Fortunately this has only happened once although as posted earlier we are now the ‘massive zerg’ due to the lack of numbers on the enemy servers. I guess the more popular a land the more players they will have in world vs world (low pop, medium pop, high pop worlds)

The lag at times is impossible when large scale battles are happening but I doubt much can be done.

Playing in smaller groups is fun; large scale battles can also be fun at times; I also have found battling two players (or more) is normally a recipe for disaster especially against thief class. Heck I have seen a skilled engineer take out 7 people.