Guild Wars 2

The Skale Venom Consumable

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skale_Venom_

Lets a player’s crits inflict weakness and vulnerability on crit, for 10 minutes.

It’s usable in WvW. Is this indended? it clearly sounds like it gives an unfair advantage.

Unfair because everyone can use it? Aha…

Everyone could use the ash legion spy kit.
Everyone could use the fire elemental powder.
Everyone could use the ogre whistle.
Everyone could use the experimental teleportation gun.

What was your point again?

I don’t see what is OP about a weakness inflicting consumable (with internal cooldown). It’s maybe a bit effective if entire groups use it but it’s not THAT great.

And yes prolly intended, a lot of people use it so i’m pretty sure that they know. Also, the effect is vastly different than those summoning items and stealth kits etc. It’s more like a “buff” than a tool. The “tools” got banned.

That said, i don’t care if they remove it or not. It’s not gamebreaking at all. But you clearly think it’s unfair. Well let me tell you, someone that uses this buff might be able to inflict a few seconds of weakness on you during the entire fight. And you could have done the same to him (so not that unfair lol). Nothing special.

It’s overpowered to begin with, when you compare it to the thief skill:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skale_Venom

You’re a thief? That would explain a lot.
Comparing a skill to a consumable is just silly. My elixirs don’t give me as good buffs as my food either.

also it doesn’t work like the thief skill. It doesn’t proc on crit, it has a chance to proc, the % of which I’m not sure. Nor does it last for the same 5s the thief skill does, if I remember right.

I’ve been using it in WvW as another consumable, and I’ve seen many others use it. I wouldn’t say the advantage is significant. As Idarko said, it is vastly different from the summoning items etc. and works more like an additional nourishment/consumable buff.

Lets ban food too, its something anybody can get, usable in wvw and give clear advantage.
Actually, lets make all players lvl 1, same class, no gear, flat map without anything on it.

orchid.4726:

Lets ban food too, its something anybody can get, usable in wvw and give clear advantage.
Actually, lets make all players lvl 1, same class, no gear, flat map without anything on it.

You joke, but I often wonder if this is what’s in people’s heads when they find absolutely anything to complain about and call OP just because they’ve been hit with it.

Even if it was a completely level playing field, someone would find something to call an exploit or OP.

Static.9841:

orchid.4726:

Lets ban food too, its something anybody can get, usable in wvw and give clear advantage.
Actually, lets make all players lvl 1, same class, no gear, flat map without anything on it.

You joke, but I often wonder if this is what’s in people’s heads when they find absolutely anything to complain about and call OP just because they’ve been hit with it.

Even if it was a completely level playing field, someone would find something to call an exploit or OP.

Specially thieves
( A troll is answering to a troll)

Seeing the original post, I don’t see him saying it’s OP, just an unfair advantage. Taking the other extreme, would you want a situation where for say 50s a minute one could be twice as strong by using 50 buffs?

Perhaps a better way would be to turn it into a food buff (and since % isn’t stated, shouldn’t be stronger than one). Thus one can’t stack effects like this, but it’ll still be possible if it complements your build.

(By the way, are these account bound? Might see an objection from pure WvW players if they need to PvE to get it)

yes it is bound.
Unfair advantage is OP to me. At least, this person thinks this item should be removed from wvw or modified to not give a “unfair advantage”.
Should we also remove oil because it gives you a bog advantage and stack with food?

I dont see the problem.

A cheap and easy to acquire for all consumable that has a fairly small chance on crit to inflict vuln and weakness for a few seconds.

It doesnt have any special uses that makes it shine, its a fairly poor consumable no matter how you look at it. But it doesnt replace foodbuff or anything, so for just 16c you get a little extra. And the little things help.

But the same can be said for foodbuffs, or sharpening stones, they give a much bigger advantage. So if anyone is complaining about Skale Venom, i assume you also want foodbuffs removed.

Also, it last only 9 min… It is not an unfair advantage…

It seems to have a very small chance to proc and a very long internal cooldown as well, never seen it give more than one stack of vulnerability or more than a few seconds of weakness. Not a huge advantage by any means. The actual thief skill of the same name is much more powerful in combat and combined with a venom sharing build can be pretty brutal.

Been asked before.

Not a big deal.

IMHO I’m on the all or nothing bandwagon for these things. The less buffs that I’m unable to strip/cleanse the better — at least until we go balls out with the whole “consumables in WvW” thing and hand out portal guns and stealth kits to everyone.

Zid.4196:

Been asked before.

Not a big deal.

source ?

They already stripped almost all interesting mechanics from WvW. Pretty soon we’ll be reduced to using a foam sword and cardboard armor with costume brawl skills in WvW if this keeps up.

My Guardian has a 20-slot bag full of fun items (cannonballs, seedturrets, teleportation guns etc) that I managed to stumble across whilst exploring but almost nothing can be used in WvW.

Isn’t it odd that they disabled their effects when the game could have been a lot more fun and give people a reason to scour the world of Tyria in order to obtain their supplies of tricks?

And now there’s this Skale Venom that applies minimal effects, doesn’t even work with some weapons, can be obtained easily by anyone etc. And people cry that it gives users an unfair advantage?

Why don’t you get your own batch. Maybe see some more of the world, hang out with the ‘Garbage Legion’ and be able to get some flasks for 16 copper each.

Why bother to explore when fun items you find can’t even be used properly? Guess we should all just hang out in Lion’s Arch whilst waiting for the Borderlands… Hmmm, sounds awfully familiar to another game where people were only hanging out in some floating city…

Fact of the matter: something does not give others an unfair advantage if it can be obtained and used by everyone.

Otherwise I could complain that Warriors using a Rifle gives them an unfair advantage because my Guardian can’t use one.

PowerCat.5738:

Everyone could use the ash legion spy kit.
Everyone could use the fire elemental powder.
Everyone could use the ogre whistle.
Everyone could use the experimental teleportation gun.

What was your point again?

This.

Regardless of what people are saying, this consumable is pretty useful in the right hands, leagues better than the thief skill that it shares a name with. Yes, everyone can use it, but policy in the past (see above) has been to remove these items from WvW so a situation is not created where everyone is reliant on them. A player burning consumables is several times stronger than one who isn’t. I don’t think most people (ANet included) want a situation wherein you can pay 1g/hr~ for a large personal boost.

For those of you who don’t think this is a significant boost by using it, you are sorely mistaken. When organised guild raids of 25 people collide, a single player will likely find himself with 20 stacks of vulnerability and prolonged weakness, mostly attributed to this consumable. That’s a 20% increase to incoming damage, which is a fight turner. Any guild not using this will find themselves severely disadvantaged.

I would rather fights are decided due to skill, co-ordination and sensible build creation, not some PvE clickable.

Why do people come to WvW looking for a fair fight? I find things like this item interesting, gives you a reason to experiment with these odd karma rewards. (I wish the taser glove actually did something)

Dual.8953:

Why do people come to WvW looking for a fair fight? I find things like this item interesting, gives you a reason to experiment with these odd karma rewards. (I wish the taser glove actually did something)

The rule needs to be consistently applied. This isn’t some kind of gimmicky environmental weapon, this is a passive benefit that can offer a lot of synergy for zero opportunity cost.

Alright, I’ll go get my foam sword, cardboard armor and try to familiarize myself with costume brawl skills.

Because that is what you guys apparently want for WvW. A little arena where you can play whack-a-mole with eachother and where nobody has the advantage because everyone is the same.

And then those same people that cried for nerfs are going to whine that they’re bored with the game because there’s nothing interesting for them to do. Today’s generation of ‘gamers’ whine and cry for nerfs because they are too lazy to go get the same powers themselves.

Did you guys even get the flasks yourselves? Or were you just scouring the Wiki to find something to complain about because you saw someone with an unfamiliar buff and thought ‘I have to walk all the way there because WP costs so much money so I’m not going to bother’?

And on the 20 stacks of vulnerability. If a single person is focused by 25 people, that person is dead long before the first Skale Venom procs. Besides, my Ranger can just shoot you one time and suddenly you have 10+5+5=20 stacks of vulnerability. Guess Rangers have an unfair advantage too then if they can do what otherwise requires a coordinated 25-man raid to accomplish.

So please, stop with the wild claims and ‘what if’ scenarios. If it were up to me, I’d reinstate all those items. At least WvW would become a much more dynamic and interesting (AND FUN!) place where I have to dodge thrown cannonballs, laugh as my buddy launches himself off a cliff because he aimed that experimental gun in the wrong direction and have fun playing hide-and-seek with spy kits.

But I guess people don’t want to have fun anymore, they just want to kill people and brag about something they call ‘skill’ and ‘coordination’. A rampaging horde of bulls in a china-shop isn’t a measure by which to calculate skill, and that’s what WvW has turned into for most participants.

Please do not be offended if you feel my words as a personal attack; they were not intended as such. I know that my style of writing can be very direct and provocative at times, but it was just something I had to get off my chest as I fear for the future of Guild Wars 2 where it runs the risk of becoming stale, static and unfun.

Krato.4729:

For those of you who don’t think this is a significant boost by using it, you are sorely mistaken. When organised guild raids of 25 people collide, a single player will likely find himself with 20 stacks of vulnerability and prolonged weakness, mostly attributed to this consumable. That’s a 20% increase to incoming damage, which is a fight turner. Any guild not using this will find themselves severely disadvantaged.

I would rather fights are decided due to skill, co-ordination and sensible build creation, not some PvE clickable.

Maybe but that was not the point. Like food, oil, it gives you a significant boost. But it is not unfair, because anybody can access to it, like food and oil.

Brb speccing for flamethrower engineer again.

orchid.4726:

Krato.4729:

For those of you who don’t think this is a significant boost by using it, you are sorely mistaken. When organised guild raids of 25 people collide, a single player will likely find himself with 20 stacks of vulnerability and prolonged weakness, mostly attributed to this consumable. That’s a 20% increase to incoming damage, which is a fight turner. Any guild not using this will find themselves severely disadvantaged.

I would rather fights are decided due to skill, co-ordination and sensible build creation, not some PvE clickable.

Maybe but that was not the point. Like food, oil, it gives you a significant boost. But it is not unfair, because anybody can access to it, like food and oil.

Food and oil/sharpening stones are two slots that can be filled but one thing each. Any food used incurs an opportunity cost in that you can’t use a different food. If Skale Venom took the spot of food or oil, it’d have a certifiable opportunity cost.

It doesn’t, though, consumables stack with everything. Skale venom is arguably more powerful than some of the other consumables that’ve been removed from WvW, and certainly cheaper. It isn’t the imbalance that is the problem as much as the power creep with no opportunity cost.

Where do you draw the line? Can we agree that some consumables need to be barred from WvW?

If we cannot agree on that, then everyone can be significantly more powerful by dropping money into consumables on a regular basis. This will fracture the community and create ill will towards those unwilling to spend money on consumables, since they’ll be significantly weaker combat assets.

If we can agree on that, all it really comes down to is power level. Skale Venom is pretty powerful, so I’d say it belongs on the banned side of the fence.

I’d agree that it should be banned, but only to get people to chill out.

It is NOT as powerful as the thief skill, it only applies one stack of vulnerability at max (that I have ever seen) and usually doesn’t even proc at all (very small chance). A venom sharing thief can buff 4 other players as well, resulting in 15 stacks of vuln and over a minute of weakness if focusing on one target. 5 people with this consumable will never hit anything like those numbers.

If you want to talk about consumables that don’t overwrite food/oil and DO offer a significant advantage and AREN’T available to everyone equally, let’s talk about the boosters from the gem store….. I’d much rather see gimicky buffs from PvE that anyone can get playing the game than straight up stat percentage boosters which are only available by paying (I already played that game and thought I was coming here to avoid it).

Thrashbarg.9820:

I’d agree that it should be banned, but only to get people to chill out.

It is NOT as powerful as the thief skill, it only applies one stack of vulnerability at max (that I have ever seen) and usually doesn’t even proc at all (very small chance). A venom sharing thief can buff 4 other players as well, resulting in 15 stacks of vuln and over a minute of weakness if focusing on one target. 5 people with this consumable will never hit anything like those numbers..

That isn’t a result of the thief utility, that is a result of trait synergy. Trait synergy can help the consumable too. The most vuln stacks I’ve ever been able to apply at once with only the consumable was 5. I’m pretty sure if I can do 5 stacks at best, a large group of people won’t have a problem sustaining weakness and a few vuln stacks. It does not have an internal cooldown, but it does have a pretty low chance to proc. Unlike the thief skill, it has no appreciable opportunity cost, and it doesn’t require heavy synergy to make it good.

I’d put it on the same level as the consumable kit that lets you drop engineer heals/buffs/condition removal.

What a ridiculous thread. In my many, many hours in WvW I’ve never ever seen even one person (friend or enemy) use skale venom. Most people won’t even bother to buy a peach pie for 3 copper/90 min duration and run without any buffs.

WvW has a ton of legitimate problems that have to be addressed ASAP. Stop wasting your time on complete non-issues.

Zid.4196:

What a ridiculous thread. In my many, many hours in WvW I’ve never ever seen even one person (friend or enemy) use skale venom. Most people won’t even bother to buy a peach pie for 3 copper/90 min duration and run without any buffs.

Most people in WvW don’t know what they’re doing in regards to most mechanics, not just buffs. Ignorance doesn’t mean there doesn’t need to attempts at balancing.

Tulisin.6945:

Zid.4196:

What a ridiculous thread. In my many, many hours in WvW I’ve never ever seen even one person (friend or enemy) use skale venom. Most people won’t even bother to buy a peach pie for 3 copper/90 min duration and run without any buffs.

Most people in WvW don’t know what they’re doing in regards to most mechanics, not just buffs. Ignorance doesn’t mean there doesn’t need to attempts at balancing.

And what exactly is unbalanced?

Zid.4196:

What a ridiculous thread. In my many, many hours in WvW I’ve never ever seen even one person (friend or enemy) use skale venom. Most people won’t even bother to buy a peach pie for 3 copper/90 min duration and run without any buffs.

WvW has a ton of legitimate problems that have to be addressed ASAP. Stop wasting your time on complete non-issues.

Complete nonsense.
You don’t balance a game around what the worst players are doing…

According to you it won’t be a probleme if there was food buffs that gave +1000 all stats… as long as most of the people don’t know about it and don’t use it.
Nonsense.

Pleaaaaseeee…. I used to use scale venom, but it’s effects are so mariginal I no longer bother going all the way to the charr area to get it. I do think it should stay though. WvW is already WAY TOO STERIL for open world pvp. If you want steril pvp, spvp is your thing.

Problem with PvE consumables is that WvW is essentially PvP not PvE and people can have practically unlimited stacks of consumables with them. There’s no like 1 consumable per day limit so you could have one weapon of mass destruction with you for luls.

Biggest problem is that anet went lol WvW is PvE way and nothing has any kind of balance by default.

Your classes in WvW can already have ridiculously unbalanced setups compared to SPvP and then you get not only craftable foods but some PvE items. Everything would be OK and fun, if they would have been balanced SOMEHOW, but there’s no such thing seen yet.

With skale venoms and such problem is that they favor limited amount of builds compared to others. If there’s item like skale venom we should have around dozen similar items for other builds and some way to counter it whatever.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leeching_Venoms

These sorts of consumables should be disabled in wvw to make things less gimmicky. just allow 2 consumables like a sharpening stone and a foodbuff and that’s it. no things that either work with traits in some way or give someone access to things their class doesn’t usually have, like stealth for example. You can do game-breaking things with that kitten

I don’t understand why all these things are allowed but Bandit Bombs aren’t usable in WvWvW.

Doggie.3184:

I don’t understand why all these things are allowed but Bandit Bombs aren’t usable in WvWvW.

Most consumables aren’t allowed in WvW. Many of the most powerful ones have already been disabled.

It’s worth taking a note that everything but buff-like consumables have been disabled(from karma i mean).
Does arenanet want them to stay? Or maybe there is another reason?
All in all, except me I have yet to find a player who runs around with 25 sigil stacks,food/wrench buffs, skale oil and 4 karma heart buffs from wayfarer foothills.
And I have yet to find a player who would dare to 1v1 my warrior and win… and on average i’d say i’ve won more 1v2s and 1v3s than i’ve lost >_< and i’ve escaped most of the lost ones, too..
Oh, and sorry for thread necromancy. Couldn’t hold myself back.

Peg Legs.

/thread

Skale venom is so weak it’s not really an issue at all.

Consumables are there to be used, so use them.

If you don’t that’s your problem. They don’t cost the earth, you can farm the materials to make them or farm to make the money to buy them.

The real issue is why so many people run around WITHOUT them on, weakening their server as a result.

Besides which, the boosts they give aren’t game breaking either way.

Afaik the strength of it single buffed (or boon) is not enormous, but, lets theory craft a bit; the problem isnt treally within the item itself, it is within the dot removal abilities which will be wasted on a boon which might seem small and insignificant, but could take up position in queue when removing far worse stuff. So, if you have an ability that removes x number of anything negative on your skillbar, and it removes this one, but lets the critical one remain….what do we get then? Is it still useable? Yes, very much. Another example why this is balancing on the edge, imagine a party with 4 full groups (20 people), where all run this, and hit….that is litterally taking away ALL armour you have. You are naked, and your party dies within aa very short time. I am all for abilities which is successful in zergbusting, but not passive ones.

Aveneo.2068:

cut for the lenght

I can sympathize with the Author; but at the same time I do agree with your points, Aveneo. On the one hand, it may come across as “unfair” or “disadvantageous-to-enemies” to constantly have the chance to stack vulnerability on “said enemies”; but on the other hand, WvW (at least in my opinion) does hold the capacity for imbalance in strength. If we’re to level all playing fields—ie, no food/oils/consumables—we’re just playing sPvP on a much larger scale. But WvW is about tactics, coordination, deception—and yes, getting all the advantages you can get to ensure a “win”. Now this isn’t to say that there should be a limit as to what one can do (or can’t, for that matter). I think it’d be fun to have spy kits and run around in stealth mode. But when you have hundreds of players hiding in stealth, the whole WvW system becomes one giant Cold War—people will want to camp in their towers/keeps/castle so that in case a mass of invisible zerg suddenly appears on your front gates, you would have a fighting chance to defend. With that said, there has to be some sort of limit; although in my opinion, this item of interest falls well within the capacity of legitimacy. It’s not a guarantee the buff will work per crit hit. There’s an advantage, but a slight one—