Guild Wars 2

The problem with ghost thief trapper build is that it can damage you without breaking stealth. That is fundamentally broken and needs to be removed from teh game. As annoying as condi chrono is, it can’t damage you without breaking stealth

OriOri.8724:

The problem with ghost thief trapper build is that it can damage you without breaking stealth. That is fundamentally broken and needs to be removed from teh game. As annoying as condi chrono is, it can’t damage you without breaking stealth

you pretty much nailed it.

The nerf to meteor shower for non player targets is huge because siege counts as non player targets. I hope this is an over sight on there end or there simply no way to counter siege unless you use siege (still waiting on my dam deployable mortar for a real counter tool.)

This is the END of dmg ele in wvw.

Jski.6180:

The nerf to meteor shower for non player targets is huge because siege counts as non player targets. I hope this is an over sight on there end or there simply no way to counter siege unless you use siege (still waiting on my dam deployable mortar for a real counter tool.)

This is the END of dmg ele in wvw.

They did it because of raid bosses, so you can finally blame pve and their raids for that nerf.

Jski.6180:

The nerf to meteor shower for non player targets is huge because siege counts as non player targets. I hope this is an over sight on there end or there simply no way to counter siege unless you use siege (still waiting on my dam deployable mortar for a real counter tool.)

This is the END of dmg ele in wvw.

I wouldn’t mind betting WvW siege was not even considered when they made this change.

Jski.6180:

The nerf to meteor shower for non player targets is huge because siege counts as non player targets. I hope this is an over sight on there end or there simply no way to counter siege unless you use siege (still waiting on my dam deployable mortar for a real counter tool.)

This is the END of dmg ele in wvw.

TBF there is a whole group of players, not sure on how large though, who do think that siege should only be easily killed by other siege. I’m willing to bet they are in the vast minority but that opinion is out there, and for them this is a win.

Xenesis.6389:

Jski.6180:

The nerf to meteor shower for non player targets is huge because siege counts as non player targets. I hope this is an over sight on there end or there simply no way to counter siege unless you use siege (still waiting on my dam deployable mortar for a real counter tool.)

This is the END of dmg ele in wvw.

They did it because of raid bosses, so you can finally blame pve and their raids for that nerf.

This is only 1/3 of the game that effects 2/3 of the game play over all. They have got to make spvp changes effect wvw it would fix a lot that wrong in wvw.

Jski.6180:

Xenesis.6389:

Jski.6180:

The nerf to meteor shower for non player targets is huge because siege counts as non player targets. I hope this is an over sight on there end or there simply no way to counter siege unless you use siege (still waiting on my dam deployable mortar for a real counter tool.)

This is the END of dmg ele in wvw.

They did it because of raid bosses, so you can finally blame pve and their raids for that nerf.

This is only 1/3 of the game that effects 2/3 of the game play over all. They have got to make spvp changes effect wvw it would fix a lot that wrong in wvw.

Yeah /shrug I’m sure they had no consideration for wvw when they made the change.

Having wvw on spvp system could probably have it’s problems too as that is always based around 5v5 fights. Wvw needs it’s own separate system so that things like the meteor nerf doesn’t happen, or raising the condition cap above 25. I figured some changes today would have resulted from raids, I don’t expect balance to get any better for wvw, the pve side is all about raids now.

Fenda.1398:

I don’t quite understand why most people only ever mention the ghost thief build as unhealthy, overpowered, cancerous when the same applies to condition chronomancers. Those are far more disgusting. Speaking of the matter though – while i do not play ghost thief as i do enjoy S/D, it seems that power based thief builds get pushed back patch after patch in comparison to most other classes, thus creating almost something like a need to play some cheap OP condi cancer in order to stay competitive.

Condi Chrono can be beat. Ghost Thief is nigh unkillable in the right hands even with a successful stealth trap.

BTW, the strongest thief build right now is a Power build at least outside of sPvP.

Xenesis.6389:

Jski.6180:

Xenesis.6389:

Jski.6180:

The nerf to meteor shower for non player targets is huge because siege counts as non player targets. I hope this is an over sight on there end or there simply no way to counter siege unless you use siege (still waiting on my dam deployable mortar for a real counter tool.)

This is the END of dmg ele in wvw.

They did it because of raid bosses, so you can finally blame pve and their raids for that nerf.

This is only 1/3 of the game that effects 2/3 of the game play over all. They have got to make spvp changes effect wvw it would fix a lot that wrong in wvw.

Yeah /shrug I’m sure they had no consideration for wvw when they made the change.

Having wvw on spvp system could probably have it’s problems too as that is always based around 5v5 fights. Wvw needs it’s own separate system so that things like the meteor nerf doesn’t happen, or raising the condition cap above 25. I figured some changes today would have resulted from raids, I don’t expect balance to get any better for wvw, the pve side is all about raids now.

I get what your saying but this is a major thing this is taking staff ele comply away from being a dmg class and making it a pure support.

At the same thing (the worst part) its pushing wvw into a pure siege vs siege game metor was one of a very few set of skills that had a real ability to counter siege (dragon tooth was one of them before the changed that too). Taking away the power of a player to effect and out come of taking keeps tower ect.. though this metor nerf takes a lot away from the encounter it self. This is the type of game play Anet found that ppl truly enjoy but all is lost if they are going to push it from the player and make it a pure siege thing.

This is unforgivable.

XTR.9604:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Thelgar.7214:

This is awesome: Being killed while outnumbered no longer grants any war score to the enemy team.

That might be something worth celebrating if outnumbered was a local buff instead of map wide…… or if the score actualy mattered….

^ This lol.

So not worth celebrating for people who don’t actually play the game as designed? I mean if you’re going to ignore the scoring of the game mode which counts the score according to things all over the map, whatever you’re doing is objectively no better from a game perspective than running around like a quaggan.

Thelgar.7214:

XTR.9604:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Thelgar.7214:

This is awesome: Being killed while outnumbered no longer grants any war score to the enemy team.

That might be something worth celebrating if outnumbered was a local buff instead of map wide…… or if the score actualy mattered….

^ This lol.

So not worth celebrating for people who don’t actually play the game as designed? I mean if you’re going to ignore the scoring of the game mode which counts the score according to things all over the map, whatever you’re doing is objectively no better from a game perspective than running around like a quaggan.

I play for my own enjoyment.

Ask TC players how much the score affects them, no matter how badly they lose they continue to gain glicko and are stuck in T1.

I’ve been playing on my GoM account this week, please tell me what difference the score is going to make at the end of the week when we are linked to a new server.

You get nothing for winning, you get nothing for losing. You can’t even claim bragging rights because the score is all about coverage, not skill.

Straegen.2938:

Condi Chrono can be beat. Ghost Thief is nigh unkillable in the right hands even with a successful stealth trap.

BTW, the strongest thief build right now is a Power build at least outside of sPvP.

Last time i checked a condi chrono was nigh unkillable as well because you simply cannot escape the mass amount of conditions being thrown at you, not to mention the insane sustain that build provides. The problem is that you need to burst it down while being lucky on all evades, which you can’t if the condi chrono is not afk.

Also, how can a power build be the strongest when everyone seems to have problems with a condi thief variant? You certainly have an extreme uphill battle if you try to engage DHs, Condichronos, most engineer builds and Druids as power thief. Everything conditional melts you if you miss a single evadeframe or blind if you play D/P. The problem is the constant reapplying of conditions. A ghost thief only has traps and Caltrops – other than that he has nothing to use while staying in stealth.

Anyways – since this is a matter of perspective i am sure there won’t be any kind of agreement besides that condition builds once again got buffed while being far stronger than most power counterparts. I want to be able to fight stuff on equal footing and not win by outclassing or lose by being outclassed simply because of imbalances.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Thelgar.7214:

XTR.9604:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Thelgar.7214:

This is awesome: Being killed while outnumbered no longer grants any war score to the enemy team.

That might be something worth celebrating if outnumbered was a local buff instead of map wide…… or if the score actualy mattered….

^ This lol.

So not worth celebrating for people who don’t actually play the game as designed? I mean if you’re going to ignore the scoring of the game mode which counts the score according to things all over the map, whatever you’re doing is objectively no better from a game perspective than running around like a quaggan.

I play for my own enjoyment.

Ask TC players how much the score affects them, no matter how badly they lose they continue to gain glicko and are stuck in T1.

I’ve been playing on my GoM account this week, please tell me what difference the score is going to make at the end of the week when we are linked to a new server.

You get nothing for winning, you get nothing for losing. You can’t even claim bragging rights because the score is all about coverage, not skill.

The players playing to win and the players running around like quaggans are playing for their enjoyment too. I do both. At times I’ll even join a friendly group of people fighting in the middle of an open field for nothing at all, just to brush up. I believe there is room for all of those to coexist.

I know how the score affects TC players. I get to see the call for everyone to rally up at the end of a week if it looks like they’re going to be passed by another server in the matchup. The past month has been an aberration. TC has historically played to win.

There is more to skill than button pressing. “Coverage” is a convenient blurring of an actual problem (population imbalance) and the consequence of poor server and guild leadership. If your server and guild leadership is constantly telling everyone that server pride is dead or doesn’t exist and the score doesn’t matter, people aren’t going to show up and you deserve to not have coverage as a consequence of abysmal leadership. WvW armies are composed of volunteers. The players aren’t MOBA pieces. Morale is important.

I get that there is a subset of the WvW community that thinks the game should be changed to exclude any other playstyle than fighting for nothing in an open field and KDR being the scoring. But the change ArenaNet made here was a good one for people that want to play the game mode as designed.

What made me laugh most:

Infiltrator’s Strike: This skill has been unsplit from PvP and will now use a 900 maximum range. Immobilize duration has been increased from 1 second to 1.5 seconds game-wide.

Yes, just what we need, a longer period of standing around while the thief spams instant skills to their hearts content before disappearing when you’re downed to finish whilst in stealth (rendering downed state skills useless too).

I’m glad I’m on a mini break as otherwise I’d be venting long and loud about the meteor shower changes which shows just how little the balance team ever think of wvw when they change things..

I used to play mainly with my Ele before the expansion, i got used to it a few weeks back and had fun playing it as a dmg class and especially to kill some siege.

Welp. :,(

I don’t feel the meteor nerf is bad, but it’s part of a much bigger wvw problem.
You have walls on towers and keeps to get up there and fight people below and to place siege on them. Walls always should be an advantage for the defender by design.
In wvw it always were the other way around. Walls are death traps because almost every class has a skill that allows them to hit targets on or even behind those walls, while as a defender you mostly miss a line of sight to targets below.
That is a really stupid design.
The other problem in wvw is that siege is by far too powerful and too common so you need classes that can target siege from outside to stand a chance destroy it.

If Anet really would care they had changed the line of sight from most of the spells so they cannot target siege or players behind or on a wall – just those on the edge of a wall (ie same as with pulls)
And they should have made a radius around siege where you cant place more siege and you have to decide if you want two arrow carts behind or near a gate or a catapult and a treb or a treb and an arrow cart – not all of them and more.

But as we all know Anet doesn’t play or care for wvw, so feel free to ignore this post.

Thelgar.7214:

I get that there is a subset of the WvW community that thinks the game should be changed to exclude any other playstyle than fighting for nothing in an open field and KDR being the scoring.

There is a subset of the WvW community that think “winning” PPT is important, most players realised long ago as a point scoring competition WvW is a meanignless joke due firstly to coverage/population differences and secondly to mind numblingly dull gameplay that goes with it like PvDoor and avoiding fights.

So the only players who care about “winning” are new players who know no better or a subset who are a bit special and think “winning” PPT is an achievement when most matchups of the history of this game were over by Monday evening due to differences in numbers and were basically foregone conclusions that most objective humans would consider worthless as a competition.

OriOri.8724:

I think lack of resources are more tied up in ANet trying to do too many things at once. They have at least 70 devs working on the next expac (number taken from an AMA a while back, I’m sure that number has just grown since then), devs working on fractals, devs working on WvW, devs working on PvP, 2-3 teams working on LWS3 (I say 2-3 because we don’t know if team 1 will have another episode to complete or not), devs working on raids and more. Its no wonder they have trouble finding time to balance something…..

I recall that AMA as well, after Colin Johansen left, yes?
However as I remember, MO said he had 200 devs, 100 working on ls3, 70 on the expac.
That leaves 30 for everything else. Everything

Jim Hunter.6821:

Thelgar.7214:

XTR.9604:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Thelgar.7214:

This is awesome: Being killed while outnumbered no longer grants any war score to the enemy team.

That might be something worth celebrating if outnumbered was a local buff instead of map wide…… or if the score actualy mattered….

^ This lol.

So not worth celebrating for people who don’t actually play the game as designed? I mean if you’re going to ignore the scoring of the game mode which counts the score according to things all over the map, whatever you’re doing is objectively no better from a game perspective than running around like a quaggan.

I play for my own enjoyment.

Ask TC players how much the score affects them, no matter how badly they lose they continue to gain glicko and are stuck in T1.

I’ve been playing on my GoM account this week, please tell me what difference the score is going to make at the end of the week when we are linked to a new server.

You get nothing for winning, you get nothing for losing. You can’t even claim bragging rights because the score is all about coverage, not skill.

So totally true Jim. Kind of humorous story … I got whispered by an enemy that we had to bring a whole server to kill him (10 of us)… then he came back with about 20 and they stayed back and ganked our trailers… ah sigh… but I had to laugh. Those that have the numbers, win… even so, our little group continues to bug the h*** out of the enemy every chance we can get and just have fun.

The one nice thing to know now is that when they blob us to death they get no points when we’re outnumbered, which for our group is most of the time.

Fenda.1398:

Last time i checked a condi chrono was nigh unkillable as well because you simply cannot escape the mass amount of conditions being thrown at you, not to mention the insane sustain that build provides. The problem is that you need to burst it down while being lucky on all evades, which you can’t if the condi chrono is not afk.

Evasion condi thieves, boon duration warriors, power mesmer, mallyx rev, several guardian builds and several other builds can beat condi chrono. It does generally require a higher skill level to beat one though as the class doesn’t really have a hard counter.

Condi Chrono is busted as its effectiveness doesn’t require a lot of skill. Not as low of a skill floor as DH but generally more effective in small scale.

Straegen.2938:

Fenda.1398:

Last time i checked a condi chrono was nigh unkillable as well because you simply cannot escape the mass amount of conditions being thrown at you, not to mention the insane sustain that build provides. The problem is that you need to burst it down while being lucky on all evades, which you can’t if the condi chrono is not afk.

Evasion condi thieves, boon duration warriors, power mesmer, mallyx rev, several guardian builds and several other builds can beat condi chrono. It does generally require a higher skill level to beat one though as the class doesn’t really have a hard counter.

Condi Chrono is busted as its effectiveness doesn’t require a lot of skill. Not as low of a skill floor as DH but generally more effective in small scale.

Agreed, anytime I see a condi chrono I bust out my ghost thief and dispose of them. Can be quite a battle though because I’m not that great at roaming anymore.

I did once beat one on my own necro cleric wellomancer build. DS is still better than reaper IMO. Any other build I get smoked typically.

LetoII.3782:

OriOri.8724:

I think lack of resources are more tied up in ANet trying to do too many things at once. They have at least 70 devs working on the next expac (number taken from an AMA a while back, I’m sure that number has just grown since then), devs working on fractals, devs working on WvW, devs working on PvP, 2-3 teams working on LWS3 (I say 2-3 because we don’t know if team 1 will have another episode to complete or not), devs working on raids and more. Its no wonder they have trouble finding time to balance something…..

I recall that AMA as well, after Colin Johansen left, yes?
However as I remember, MO said he had 200 devs, 100 working on ls3, 70 on the expac.
That leaves 30 for everything else. Everything

I believe it, LWS3 has been absolutely incredible quality imo, and its being released incredibly quickly. I can fully believe that they have a large amount of people working on it. Every episode has come with a storyline, a new map, a new mastery, new mobs or new attacks for older mobs, new skins, new collections etc….. And even more stuff behind the scenes. When Bloodstone Fen was released, they were talking about how one of the devs created a new tool to make placing ley lines much more dev friendly and less time consuming, just to place them in BF.

I think it’s hopeless at this point. Elementalist has lost it’s mojo and it’s never going to be fun to play again. Recharge time changes trying to fix the disaster caused 6 months ago by unjustifiable nerfs won’t make the gameplay any more interesting, specially considering everything that is not working well anymore with the class.

Straegen.2938:

Fenda.1398:

Last time i checked a condi chrono was nigh unkillable as well because you simply cannot escape the mass amount of conditions being thrown at you, not to mention the insane sustain that build provides. The problem is that you need to burst it down while being lucky on all evades, which you can’t if the condi chrono is not afk.

Evasion condi thieves, boon duration warriors, power mesmer, mallyx rev, several guardian builds and several other builds can beat condi chrono. It does generally require a higher skill level to beat one though as the class doesn’t really have a hard counter.

Condi Chrono is busted as its effectiveness doesn’t require a lot of skill. Not as low of a skill floor as DH but generally more effective in small scale.

I beat them on my ranger the majority of the time but it is always an uphill battle. It helps that I’m normally running marksmanship (piercing) or skirmishing (quickdraw) so I have the tools to put them down. A bunker druid build would be super easy but it is normally a 10 min+ stalemate until 1 of us dies of boredom.
Thanks for the super fun meta anet….

ANet considered server performance when they:

• increased target caps from 5 to 10
• added new AoE effects to existing skills
• reduced recharges of AoE skills/traits

That’ll do the trick. The WvW skill lag is a thing of the past. :P

Korgov.7645:

ANet considered server performance when they:

• increased target caps from 5 to 10
• added new AoE effects to existing skills
• reduced recharges of AoE skills/traits

That’ll do the trick. The WvW skill lag is a thing of the past. :P

^^ Nice sarcasm. ^^

I was thinking the same. Increasing target caps from 5 to 10 + more AoE effects puts a huge load on the servers.

Speaking of skill balance:
Why an earth Arenanet buffed Guardians in WvWvW? Guardians have always been numerous in this game mode and been part of the meta.

Also the ghost thief really didn’t need any buff, but there are several professions which
are more or less excluded from the zergs.

Korgov.7645:

• increased target caps from 5 to 10

My favorite part of that was when someone asked why warrior banners affect 10 people and ranger spirits don’t when they are essentially the same thing and Irenio’s response was basically, “because kitten you rangers, that’s why.”