Guild Wars 2

I have been reading a lot of threads lately, and to my surprise everyone complaining about skill vs. gear in WvW… Is this really that big of a deal?

Let me start off by saying, I made an engineer and leveled 1 – 35 in PvE (mostly to learn the mechanics) then I started WvW. I was using level 30 Blue Quality items that added Precision and Condition damage.

From there I began my journey helping to defend my server (Henge of Denravi), from enemy forces. I found myself soloing level 80’s who were in full CoF armor and exotics, some even with Legendary weapons…

As a low level Engineer I thought I would become Thief food or cannon fodder, however that was far from the case. I found myself being the prime target for glass cannon Thieves quite often, probably because of the big green arrow showing me as upleveled. I took most of these enemies out with quite ease.

I took this as a chance to test my skill, I started playing WvW 95% of my playtime, only venturing elsewhere to do daily and maybe a piece of my personal story. At level 60, I was still using level 30 blue gear. I decided to upgrade all my gear/accessories to blue level 60 Rampager’s gear.

My character became a little more resilient and my damage improved by approximately 100 – 200 more a hit (A big difference for my killing power). I took this as a sign from having more power from my new armor.

I am now level 73, and will continue my WvW’ing until level 80. Where I will start to farm dungeons for tokens or enough gold to afford some exotics. Either way, I have been saving since I started the char and I am only sitting on 9 – 10g (recent loot changes are helping a ton). I never spend more than 1g on gear because I only buy blues. So when I have enough for exotics I will see how much of a difference it makes for my character.

So in the end, although my gear is not top quality, I never have seen myself as handicapped in WvW, unless facing a zerg. I will upload some of my gameplay, it starts with me raging about a thief being invisible for 95% of the fight, but he was far from glass cannon or else he would of died very fast.

Goodluck and see everyone on the battlefield!

It definitely is not as important when compared to other games. That being said, if you are in greens, and your foe is in exotics. It’s not impossible to win, but it is noticeably more difficult. So if he is somewhere around your skill level, you will lose.

Which, I’m fine with. However, better gear does seem to be very beneficial in Zerg fights. Dat survivability.

Also, I would go ahead and start doing dungeons. Just stay away from the uber speed run pros. Because they require you to be 80.

I kill full exotic 80s wearing level 60 BLUES. So if greens make that big of a difference ill have to try it.

Otaur.9268:

I kill full exotic 80s wearing level 60 BLUES. So if greens make that big of a difference ill have to try it.

just because they are level 80 and in exotics does not mean they are good players.

it takes only time to get to 80. as for dungeon exotics that’s only time too…cof is ridiculously easy to run.

that is something you don’t seem to understand. doesn’t matter if they are in full exotics if they are keyboard turning, ability clicking baddies.

find someone with roughly your skill level wearing exotics and you wearing level 30/60 blues…you’re gonna have a bad time. period.

The stat tilting for upleveled players is prime from 30-60, after 60 hits and you have access to the gear with three stats, the uplevel begins to drop per level. I wish I could take screen shots of my stats per level from 1-80 for you and what gear to show a side by side comparison.

+1

Skill will always triumphant against anything in wvw(well, minus a 1v30, but you get the point)

It’s just the level of skill needed!

in my oppinion it comes like this:
game experience : to know your enemy’s skills and wich skill can counter other
good PC and connection
fast fingers /player’s skill
then comes gear , food , world bonuses

Yup. Not only know your own skills, also knowing your enemy skills and how to counter them is a huge factor in GW2.

The quickness basilisk venom thief will never win against me if I use lightning reflexes then quickness volley.

I can beat underlevels just by spamming 1.
No where near balanced.

Until I hit 80 on my characters (and throw at least rares on them). I feel like I’m shooting peas in WvW.

There is no way in hell any less than level 80 could kill any of my level 80s. It just isn’t possible. I don’t thing two upleveled toons could kill any of my level 80s. Glass Canons will hit uplevels for average 9k or higher hits.

You’re either exaggerating, or you’re fighting undergeared level 80s, and thinking they’re fully geared.

Nice to hear the OP enjoys WvW. They said they will be introducing more options for the stat distribution on WvW armor, so If I were you I’d probably save those badges and see what the March patch brings. As for ksill vs gear and such, I’m surprised by the fact tha noone seems to acknowledge the role builds and classes play.
Assuming two players of equal skill level, class and build is probably the biggest determinant for your success. To a certain degree it probably even matters more than a discrepancy in skill.

The thing is, condition damage builds are still quite viable for upscales. This is because condition damage does not depend on your weapon power, meaning an upscale could still deal 120+ damage per bleeding stack. It wasn’t that hard to pull 2v1’s on my upscaled p/d thief, for example. Some lvl 80 champion slayers also bited the dust. However, making a damage build is not really possible.

They recently improved upscaling. My level 15 mesmer had something like 3k attack, 67% crit chance and 110% crit damage just with a full set of cheap level appropriate gear. While it would be quite difficult to 1v1 a level 80, WvW is a team game and you can still do quite fine in group battles. You’re at a disadvantage, sure, but it’s not as big a gap when you think about the team mechanics and the fact that just as many lower levels are on the enemy team.

As far as gear goes, it’s easy enough to buy a set of rare gear on the trading post. That plus an exotic weapon is plenty enough while you work on full exotic gear.

I frequently use a full set of greens with 4 major runes + 2x major divinity for “tryout” gear for new builds. Doesn’t come quite close to the hitting power of full exotics, but being able to test the build in the environment it’s intended for at a fraction of the cost is immeasurably valuable. I know trying stuff out in PvP is technically free, but the number of possible stat combinations is hilariously low with the amulet+jewel system.

DOnt waste you time. Get your self to 80, get an exotic set and practice

Fuzzion.2504:

DOnt waste you time. Get your self to 80, get an exotic set and practice

It’s not a waste of time if you enjoy playing WvW a LOT more than PvE . You won’t be the MVP of the battle but you can still make a difference if you just stick to stuff you can do ( use ALL of your support spells, always help ressing people – without killing yourself ofc – , follow the main zerg + don’t rush in like a champ, etc ).

I don’t understand why people need exotic gear to be able to have fun…. this is not wow x_@

jkctmc.8754:

There is no way in hell any less than level 80 could kill any of my level 80s. It just isn’t possible. I don’t thing two upleveled toons could kill any of my level 80s. Glass Canons will hit uplevels for average 9k or higher hits.

You’re either exaggerating, or you’re fighting undergeared level 80s, and thinking they’re fully geared.

Just because everyone you fight must suck, doesn’t mean anything. I have been playing the game since BWE1, and I know what exotics look like. No I am not exaggerating, it is quite easy to kill an 80 on an UpLeveled character, as long as you know your skills / class, and how to counter whatever the enemy throws at you.

I find it funny when a full berserk warrior thinks they are going to frenzy hundred blades insta-gib an upleveled player only to be downed and stomped by the low level. It is not hard at all…

The reason I made this post is to encourage others who feel they must be in exotics to compete versus enemies, to try it out. As long as they know their class and the classes they’re facing, then they will do just fine.

I would recommend using a condition build when being UpLeveled, because as someone else mentioned, condition builds at low levels scale wonderfully. So does crit rate, so condition on crit traits are wicked useful. Running around with about 70% crit chance on my Engi, and that’s some mean bleed stacking, which I can keep on you 100% of a fight… Unless you are an Engi with Immune to Conditions <25% health trait.

@Ravien: I 1v1 Level 80s all the time, since level 35 in fact, I believe the fights versus them helped me learn my class more, and what to expect damage wise versus certain targets. For instance, I will not attack a D/D Ele, because it is pointless, I cannot keep up with them and my conditions are pointless as they cleanse them so fast + heal all the time.

cristi.2764:

Fuzzion.2504:

DOnt waste you time. Get your self to 80, get an exotic set and practice

It’s not a waste of time if you enjoy playing WvW a LOT more than PvE . You won’t be the MVP of the battle but you can still make a difference if you just stick to stuff you can do ( use ALL of your support spells, always help ressing people – without killing yourself ofc – , follow the main zerg + don’t rush in like a champ, etc ).

I don’t understand why people need exotic gear to be able to have fun…. this is not wow x_@

You do realise you can just go and buy exotic gear right? Unlike wow, its cheap, can be bought with badges or karma and is not that hard to get if u farm.

We are talking about competition level WvW. Exotic and lvl 80 is the very minimum.

The old skill vs gear discussion is pretty much redundant for the majority of players, since the majority of players have levelled there mains and at least most of their alts to 80 and have 80 exotic gear and have had so for some months now.

A more interesting discussion for me would revolve around why we have to farm PvE to get gear that we want to experiment with builds for.

How do you know they have exotics? With reskinning and transmutes I have no idea what people are wearing us they link it.

@Otaur

I didn’t have the same experience as you.

I have yet to find any upleveled player in WvW that could kill me. And I do 2+ hours a day of WvW roaming. And I’m not a pro pvpers ether.

When I aim for an upleveled, I know my damage will be crazy. And they will hit me like a wet noodle.

Kardiamond.6952:

@Otaur

I didn’t have the same experience as you.

I have yet to find any upleveled player in WvW that could kill me. And I do 2+ hours a day of WvW roaming. And I’m not a pro pvpers ether.

When I aim for an upleveled, I know my damage will be crazy. And they will hit me like a wet noodle.

My base damage was always low, maybe 100 – 300 damage, however my bleeds tick for 100+ a tick, poison another 100+ a tick, and burn 690+ a tick. Really powerful if you can keep them on players almost 100% of time.

jkctmc.8754:

There is no way in hell any less than level 80 could kill any of my level 80s. It just isn’t possible. I don’t thing two upleveled toons could kill any of my level 80s. Glass Canons will hit uplevels for average 9k or higher hits.

You’re either exaggerating, or you’re fighting undergeared level 80s, and thinking they’re fully geared.

Very true. Up leveled characters are like paper ad most up leveled lowbies can’t out dps a guardian in yellows. Also, if you aren’t at least halfway geared you ain’t surviving enough to make a difference.

I guess the question is, how much of each stat is needed to make an up-leveled player a challenge to a fully geared level 80? Obviously, we can’t give them GC stats or they would go down faster. We could just give them an average of all stats based on level, gear, traits, etc. Obviously, we can’t give them stats reaching what level 80 geared players are but can’t we make it closer?

I agree with your post somewhat. It does all depend on the skills of the player. I consider myself pretty skilled with all my toons, aside from my ranger.

Ive had several fights where an under level was a lot harder to take out than a level 80. I’ve also had fights where the level 80 was a lot more prepared and just countered everything I did.

I’d say it’s about 80% skill+build/20% level+gear

IMO the gear doesn’t make nearly as much difference as traits do. When I level alts, it’s mainly to get access to master/grandmaster traits, not to be able to use higher gear. Certain builds are entirely transformed by a single trait. That’s where upleveleds are weak, gear is very much secondary.

kiwipearls.5237:

How do you know they have exotics? With reskinning and transmutes I have no idea what people are wearing us they link it.

Honestly, it’s easiest and best just to assume that every level 80 player you come across is in full exotics, hence why it is best to be in full exotics. That way you know the worst case scenario is being on an even playing field stat-wise.

Another thing to consider in skill vs. gear is that not all classes and builds are ideal for 1v1, where individual skill has the most influence. D/D thieves will always excel in 1v1 fights whereas, for example, a shout warrior excels in group fights with heals and buffs. If they meet in a 1v1 fight then the thief will have the advantage by default. In a group fight the warrior will provide the greater advantage to his team.

Also in large group fights (zerg vs. zerg) skill becomes less a factor and gear, discipline and organization become key. Ten mediocre players in full exotics closely following a commander who knows what he’s doing will more often than not win against a less organized/less geared force of the same size, no matter how high the individual skill of the players involved. Skill certainly accounts for something in this scenario, but mostly for the commanders (assuming the ones following him are disciplined enough to do exactly as he says).

Until I hit 80 on my characters (and throw at least rares on them). I feel like I’m shooting peas in WvW.