Guild Wars 2

How has no culling effected your small roaming group? Last night we decided to roam in the enemy territory as we always do, and it felt like we ended up running away from zergs nearly the entire time. While getting zergs to chase you all around might be good for our side’s meta, it was frustrating and boring. I think that kiting is going to have to be a big addition to the way we play, rather than going balls deep into the tail of a zerg. How has your small roaming group been effected by no culling, and what adjustments is your group making?

right now there will be zergs everywhere because people feel like they need max wvw lv ASAP. once that dies down zergs will go back to Pve as they will get bored of Pvd and the ppl left where the ones you fought before.

Brando.1374:

right now there will be zergs everywhere because people feel like they need max wvw lv ASAP. once that dies down zergs will go back to Pve as they will get bored of Pvd and the ppl left where the ones you fought before.

Unfortunately we play in T1, and it is always zergy. For us moving to another server isn’t an option (we like the non stop action of T1). However, maybe we shouldn’t be closed minded about moving…

I once drempt of a server that had people roaming around in 5-15 man groups all over the maps looking for battles… then I woke in in tier 1 and realized my dream would never come true. Now my nights are filled with every once in awhile finding a couple people to fight, and diving into zergs to see how many people I can take down before I die.

Note that prior to the culling fix, this happened:

• Small roaming group sees small roaming group
• They attack
• The second small roaming group was actually 85 people; you just only saw 6 of them.
• Actual small roaming group dies and goes “wtf”

So being able to realize it’s a zerg and run away without engaging is a serious improvement.

Being on tier 1 also (SoR) I had much the same feeling last night. I would get small scale fights now and then followed by a frame rate drop as the Zerg came into clipping range. With the culling fix at least I can see my kitten and have a chance to run first. But yeah right now with new content it seems like its just extra zergy right now but extra bonus I now get rng with my action bar! Maybe it will work maybe it won’t!

Being on T1 (JQ) we had similar issues prior to the patch and going months back. We came to the conclusion that T1 doesn’t support our playstyle very well and moved off to a lower tier.

Keep in mind lower Tiers are active all the time too in EBG, and you can pick pretty good fights in the borderworlds.

As a group, I believe we are all very happy with our choice to bail on T1.

Last night we ran our normal 5 man. We had several nice, successful bombs (and fraps) wiping many zerglings, baddies and grinders. Thanks to you all!

Culling fix certainly helps roaming, but my experience so far is that the karma train only got larger (but worse, too).

Emerge.9640:

Culling fix certainly helps roaming, but my experience so far is that the karma train only got larger (but worse, too).

I agree, now with the WEXP everyone is playing with the “need it now” concept.

PvEers are joining WvW
Casuals are all logging in and joining WvW
People that took a break are coming back into WvW
They all go straight to the commander tag because it’s the same concept as the Karma train, but now it’s a Karma/WEXP train.

Anet decided to not address the problem with the disgusting WvW meta of get 80 people stacked up and run over everything, therefore us small scale players have it worse than ever.

shrug Its gunna be funny when they get their ranks, and they attack us ‘Only Inavders’ and they get their kitten pushed in.

Previously youd judge the size of the dude running at you’s balls to guess how many were behind him. It was an acquired skill but we got kind of good at it. Now everyone sees everyone and its much easier to bait zergs into manageable groups.

I don’t know if the zergs are larger or if we are just seeing the whole thing for the first time.

I’m also in T1 (Blackgate) and I have to say, I kind of like the “mega-zerg” thing that’s going on now. For the last few weeks I’ve usually had to watch out for 3-4 groups of 20+, and usually 1 group of 30-40, all roaming around the same maps. Now, entire servers seem to be balled up in giant 80-man zergs, so as long as you avoid them the rest of the map is there for the taking! I’ve already soloed my way to Rank 5 in just a few hours.

EDIT: I just want to add that this was done on a Thief AFTER the 4-second “Stealth Nerf” came out, and the end of Culling, AND with the “Hidden Killer” trait being 100% broken since the patch! The “easy-button” Thief build has essentially been turned off completely by Anet, and honestly, I say good riddance.

Slamz.5376:

Note that prior to the culling fix, this happened:

• Small roaming group sees small roaming group
• They attack
• The second small roaming group was actually 85 people; you just only saw 6 of them.
• Actual small roaming group dies and goes “wtf”

So being able to realize it’s a zerg and run away without engaging is a serious improvement.

2 things: 1. I’ll speak for our 5 man SECONDED! This is exactly accurate.

2. Our 5 man ran last night and was very successful. Culling change made us all realize we have lost 30-40% of our fights in the past 3 months due 100% directly to enemies failing to appear.

I think we all have to be a bit patient while the morons “content” carebears try out the newer pvp system. Once the hype dies down the inflation will ease back to normal. The biggest differences are thieves have now been exposed for the most part of what they are…. kitten players exploiting a bad loading system; and good 5 mans can gage scenarios better now of when to push and when to pull.

Yeah, it’s easy to pick out which thieves are legit and which ones are complete scrubs.

There is no doubt that the culling change has helped small groups a lot, being able to see exactly what you are up against quickly and without having to wait is crucial for making quick decisions.

We have always been heavy on kiting so no change for us in this regards, we can now make better decisions on when and how to kite now. Our view has always been that if a giant zerg of 50 people wants to spend 10 mins chasing us across the map, we were as effective in helping our team as outright killing them.

The WXP system could have really helped create and incentive for small groups to run and perhaps we would have seen a reduction in zerging,. Instead we have seen a huge increase in zerging as a result of the horribly implemented system and frankly who cares about any of those worthless abilities? I have no plans to spend my points.

Yo OP, it works both ways. You can now see the zerg from a far distance. Oh hey? What’s that I see in the distance? Is that you Mr. Zerg? I guess I won’t go that way!

Scouting 101.

chrisk.4320:

Yo OP, it works both ways. You can now see the zerg from a far distance. Oh hey? What’s that I see in the distance? Is that you Mr. Zerg? I guess I won’t go that way!

Scouting 101.

That is entirely my point. Everyone keeps saying that they can see the zergs now, and that is great and all, but we would be joking ourselves to say that culling did not work in our favor as well. My experience last night was basically running away from zergs nearly the entire time. The organized zergs weren’t much of a problem, but the mindless ones of 30-40 people would chase us in big loops around the mountains of North Hills! This is what I meant by how will your tactics/builds change to avoid getting zerged now that the zerg can actually see you.

Niim.9260:

There is no doubt that the culling change has helped small groups a lot, being able to see exactly what you are up against quickly and without having to wait is crucial for making quick decisions.

We have always been heavy on kiting so no change for us in this regards, we can now make better decisions on when and how to kite now. Our view has always been that if a giant zerg of 50 people wants to spend 10 mins chasing us across the map, we were as effective in helping our team as outright killing them.

The WXP system could have really helped create and incentive for small groups to run and perhaps we would have seen a reduction in zerging,. Instead we have seen a huge increase in zerging as a result of the horribly implemented system and frankly who cares about any of those worthless abilities? I have no plans to spend my points.

No one on our team is spending a single point. Anet doensnt want specific class abilities because people will quit the game due to “unbalancing” when good players figure them out faster than the majority does.

Boulderbolg.3460:

chrisk.4320:

Yo OP, it works both ways. You can now see the zerg from a far distance. Oh hey? What’s that I see in the distance? Is that you Mr. Zerg? I guess I won’t go that way!

Scouting 101.

That is entirely my point. Everyone keeps saying that they can see the zergs now, and that is great and all, but we would be joking ourselves to say that culling did not work in our favor as well. My experience last night was basically running away from zergs nearly the entire time. The organized zergs weren’t much of a problem, but the mindless ones of 30-40 people would chase us in big loops around the mountains of North Hills! This is what I meant by how will your tactics/builds change to avoid getting zerged now that the zerg can actually see you.

don’t get me wrong our 5 man kited some major Zerg action. Don’t complain about it of you are on a higher tier. Move down. We fight in t7 t6 due to more 5 man action and smaller (relatively) Zergs. I’ve invited you guys numerous times to join our tier to 5 man all the time. If you’re going to stay upper, deal with 70 mans.

Whilst fixing culling has been a major improvement and massively contributes to my gaming experience, unfortunately it in combination with the wXP has created a new meta-game where whole servers choose to stack up on top of each other ikittenone and create a choo choo karma train.

It’s a sad state of affairs when players prefer skill-less PVE zerging over actually achieving anything, but I guess they cannot be blamed till some extent as AN gave them this game. Still, I wish more people actually took pride in their achievements and ventured out in small-scale.

The whole night has been basically running around ikittenone that felt totally deserted, only to be ran over after 5-10 minutes by a 70+ zerg who feel it necessary to chase you halfway across the map. I do hope that people tire of this quickly and actually go back to guild-groups or small-scale groups.

Jscull.2514:

Boulderbolg.3460:

chrisk.4320:

Yo OP, it works both ways. You can now see the zerg from a far distance. Oh hey? What’s that I see in the distance? Is that you Mr. Zerg? I guess I won’t go that way!

Scouting 101.

That is entirely my point. Everyone keeps saying that they can see the zergs now, and that is great and all, but we would be joking ourselves to say that culling did not work in our favor as well. My experience last night was basically running away from zergs nearly the entire time. The organized zergs weren’t much of a problem, but the mindless ones of 30-40 people would chase us in big loops around the mountains of North Hills! This is what I meant by how will your tactics/builds change to avoid getting zerged now that the zerg can actually see you.

don’t get me wrong our 5 man kited some major Zerg action. Don’t complain about it of you are on a higher tier. Move down. We fight in t7 t6 due to more 5 man action and smaller (relatively) Zergs. I’ve invited you guys numerous times to join our tier to 5 man all the time. If you’re going to stay upper, deal with 70 mans.

The invitation is great appreciated, don’t get me wrong. Our problem with the lower tiers is that we have players with a wide range of timezones. There were two reasons we left Yaks Bend: 1. Our late night players couldn’t find enough action, and 2. More and more we felt the need to concentrate on the meta game rather than just let someone else worry about taking towers leaving us to being able to just skirmish.

How is Tier 2 going for small guilds?

Boulderbolg.3460:

Jscull.2514:

Boulderbolg.3460:

chrisk.4320:

Yo OP, it works both ways. You can now see the zerg from a far distance. Oh hey? What’s that I see in the distance? Is that you Mr. Zerg? I guess I won’t go that way!

Scouting 101.

That is entirely my point. Everyone keeps saying that they can see the zergs now, and that is great and all, but we would be joking ourselves to say that culling did not work in our favor as well. My experience last night was basically running away from zergs nearly the entire time. The organized zergs weren’t much of a problem, but the mindless ones of 30-40 people would chase us in big loops around the mountains of North Hills! This is what I meant by how will your tactics/builds change to avoid getting zerged now that the zerg can actually see you.

don’t get me wrong our 5 man kited some major Zerg action. Don’t complain about it of you are on a higher tier. Move down. We fight in t7 t6 due to more 5 man action and smaller (relatively) Zergs. I’ve invited you guys numerous times to join our tier to 5 man all the time. If you’re going to stay upper, deal with 70 mans.

The invitation is great appreciated, don’t get me wrong. Our problem with the lower tiers is that we have players with a wide range of timezones. There were two reasons we left Yaks Bend: 1. Our late night players couldn’t find enough action, and 2. More and more we felt the need to concentrate on the meta game rather than just let someone else worry about taking towers leaving us to being able to just skirmish.

How is Tier 2 going for small guilds?

PAXA only cares about skirmishes. All 5 of us log on only to kill people. If you are concerned for a second about the games “meta” then yea you’re probably in the right place.

Boulderbolg.3460:

How has no culling effected your small roaming group? Last night we decided to roam in the enemy territory as we always do, and it felt like we ended up running away from zergs nearly the entire time. While getting zergs to chase you all around might be good for our side’s meta, it was frustrating and boring. I think that kiting is going to have to be a big addition to the way we play, rather than going balls deep into the tail of a zerg. How has your small roaming group been effected by no culling, and what adjustments is your group making?

If you want small scale wvw this is not your game. You will not succeed against bigger zergs for the following reasons.

Here is why:

1.AOE only affects 5 people max. This way, bigger numbers with less skill will always trump you (if they are of close enough level and gear).
This rewards bad players who don’t even pan their cams around with zero situational awareness since they can get away without being hit.

2.The downed state. Zergs are able to rez their downed quickly or rally off an NPC guard or a single player. Thus you can wipe 8 out of 10 with your group of 5 and they can all rally off an NPC caught in the cross fire. This rewards bad players and punishes good ones. If your a good player and your downed your skill won’t help you since people will just throw damage on you or try and finish you -can’t hold off 5 people trying to finish you-.

3.You get less badges from 5mans vs. zerging if you know how to apply your AOE dps. The fights that you can win in wvw as a 5man are few and far inbetween making your efforts in hunting down badges or points less effective than zerging.

And overall there are no good rewards for wvw:
1.Skill points: Effective against NPCS or inanimate objects..aka..PVE reward..nothing to do with pvp.
2.Badges give you gear which you can get from karma vendors, crafting and dungeons. While this is a welcome reward for people grinding in Wvw, It is still not as good since the skin is boring and is the same for all the WvW gear rewards.
3.Titles:You can achieve those faster by zerging/PVE in wvw:towers/camps/garrisons and thus are not an indicator to the person’s skill just to the time spent playing.

The above favors mindless zerging and lack of awareness/organization.

Sadly WvW is PVE and not PvP.You are in for a big disappointment if you think you will be effective against anything more than 7-8 bad players or in PvE..i mean..camp captures, ninja tower captures and sentries.. the usual boring pve stuff.

The only way to win against bigger zergs is to flank them and burst hard and have a good escape strategy -mesmer portal- or have each individual in the team ready with their escape mechanism. Even then the downed players will be rezzed unless you are frenzy or stealth stomping. That or heavy kiting through choke points-.

Hopefully the Open world PvP in upcoming games won’t favor bad players or zerging.

The culling fix hasn’t really changed much with how I look and play the game but like you we’ve been wondering about maybe dropping down a few tiers for many months. My personal opinion is that the higher up in tier you go the less skill is required.

It’s a tough choice too Boulder because I think we’re too good for the lower tiers as well. Just because you know how to handle 10+ with just 3-4 players.

Gully.7358:

The culling fix hasn’t really changed much with how I look and play the game but like you we’ve been wondering about maybe dropping down a few tiers for many months. My personal opinion is that the higher up in tier you go the less skill is required.

It’s a tough choice too Boulder because I think we’re too good for the lower tiers as well. Just because you know how to handle 10+ with just 3-4 players.

It’s free. Just an FYI the lower tiers have more 5 man action. We run 5 every night. I know of 6-7 other guilds that run 5 in our tier as one above. Top tiers r just bigger Zergs. Ull never find small fivhts

Jscull.2514:

PAXA only cares about skirmishes. All 5 of us log on only to kill people. If you are concerned for a second about the games “meta” then yea you’re probably in the right place.

I think I wasn’t clear in my response to you. What I meant was that on Yaks Bend the server often was disorganized to the point where we would lose everything and there wouldn’t be a meta happening at all. Without meta, the game is dead. We would zone into a map, start taking towers to create action, and find ourselves in charge of a zerg. In T1/T2 we don’t have to worry about the meta at all. It’s a catch 22 for us small groups.

But hey with the new outmanned buff the small groups running around a map should not worry about repair bills anymore when they get wiped since outmanned buff improved at least.

Prior to the patch, it hard to get people to defend, repair, and escort. Now its impossible to get people to do those things. Everyone is roaming the map looking for kills and easy caps.

XII.9401:

blah blah blah

You have no idea what you are talking about, just the same old tired excuses.

I’m also in T1, JQ, and I am finding the mega zergs to be extremely boring to play with. I am 80% sure I’m transferring off T1 tonight because WvW has lost its appeal in this tier.

I would’ve thought no culling would have been negative for small group play in the high tiers. But our experience as a guild on Tarnished Coast has been different (though it has only been a day).

It is much easier now to see a force from far away and count how many there are. You can engage if the situation is good, escape if not. On EB, at least, this was very conducive to camp capping and yak killing.

It remains to be seen if this will continue (and if the meta doesn’t change). But to me at least, no culling has really renewed my interest in the game from a small group point of view.

Before the update I was trying to figure out what I would play until ESO came out.

Yeps m8ty from Riot,

I roam in this game 10 hours a day from like beta allreaddy in sfr and the fun seems to be over atm. Lets pray the Brando is right and all in WvW will seatle down a bit after the pve ppl get there max lvl/achiefment bla bla end go back were they belong ( pve).

Not even to mention the Que atm!!!!!! Is it the free transfure to SFR or the PVE ppl suddenly in WvW…or maybe both?
Either way…. for sure i feel faked with this bs.

Regards.