Guild Wars 2

Is Solo Roaming dead?

Every day i see more condi mesmers.. More than 70 % are condi mesmers.
Followed by condi necrco any condi thieves..
You cant fight 1 on 1 them. You only can run away..

Is it time to play toxic / lame builds too?
Or is it better to wait and hope for any fixes?

I think we cant expect fix till the expansion.

And since the expansion is equal to roaming’s death …. you will never be able to roam again xp

So… uh… Every day you see more and more roamers that has purposebuilt condi specs for roaming, but since you havent built for countering it roaming is officially dead.

Theres is some sort of problem with that argument but I cant quite put my finger on it.

For me solo / group roaming is dead.

If you’re Tier 2, yes it’s dead.

Yeah it’s dead. 99% of the time it’s people attempting to get to their zerg.

Nah, it still works, you only have to build slippery enough not to get caught by 5+ ganking groups. That’s why you see a lot of PU mesmers running around.

Dawdler.8521:

So… uh… Every day you see more and more roamers that has purposebuilt condi specs for roaming, but since you havent built for countering it roaming is officially dead.

Theres is some sort of problem with that argument but I cant quite put my finger on it.

There’s no problem with the argument. Anyone who has played both condition and power builds will tell you that many condition builds requires absolutely no brain at all. I myself and many others simply prefer a GW2 where people with a brain perform the best. Certain condition builds however allow brainless players to perform on a really high level because of the skill floor of these builds.

It’s endemic to GW2 really because the game is built around skill being as much of a non-factor as possible to cater to as many casuals as possible, but the problem has become more and more prominent with the release of many patches, the most kitten ing one being the introduction of an entirely new condition without changing and condition clearing skills whatsoever.

It really depends on the server you are fighting. Some severs still have plenty of good solo/small groups running around. Others will flat out run from you even if they have you outnumbered, camp in towers with ac’s and wait until they can get a 20+ man group together before chasing you down with venom wells.

solo roaming full zerker ranger here with 5 utility skills that clean condies. dont have any problems with necros or mesmers

you just have to adapt your build to the current meta

WvW roaming (~1-5 people) is mostly dead. The vast majority of players I see are either in a map blob or a guild blob. In my experience as a roaming guild leader for the past 3 years on NA, there are very few roaming guilds (most of which are just gank guilds) that respect other roaming guilds (or even deserve respect). A lot of them will hit a 5-man group (the extremely rare times you actually even come across one) who is already fighting a 1:3 ratio or grossly outnumber their next encounter after losing the first typically because of kitten-talking, sieging, or other general bad-mannered things. I don’t believe that this is necessarily the attitude of roamers, but players in general.

WvW and roaming in particular has never been balanced, but that’s what can make it fun if you’re fighting against a larger group. I don’t believe it (or this game for that matter) is meant to be taken too seriously. Just continue to roam and play the builds that are fun to you — it makes it that much more rewarding when you’re successful.

EFWinters.5421:

Dawdler.8521:

So… uh… Every day you see more and more roamers that has purposebuilt condi specs for roaming, but since you havent built for countering it roaming is officially dead.

Theres is some sort of problem with that argument but I cant quite put my finger on it.

There’s no problem with the argument. Anyone who has played both condition and power builds will tell you that many condition builds requires absolutely no brain at all. I myself and many others simply prefer a GW2 where people with a brain perform the best. Certain condition builds however allow brainless players to perform on a really high level because of the skill floor of these builds.

It’s endemic to GW2 really because the game is built around skill being as much of a non-factor as possible to cater to as many casuals as possible, but the problem has become more and more prominent with the release of many patches, the most kitten ing one being the introduction of an entirely new condition without changing and condition clearing skills whatsoever.

Right. No problem at all. You just dont want roamers that found effective builds for roaming to actually use those builds, because its too easy to kill other people with them. And we cant have roamers running around killing people, can we?

Roll Ranger.

They are, imho, the best Roaming/Havoc class int he game. Whether flipping camps, handling other roamers, scouting, they hold their own very well. Necros and Thieves are cake for a trapper Ranger (barring the exceedingly good ones) and PU Mesmers I can usually hold my own against; 50/50 on the wins there.

Just bear a few things in mind:

• You bring very little to a zerg/blob battle.
• With practice and some investment, you can solo most anything except enemy groups.
• If the only thing you’re doing is looking for players to kill, you aren’t roaming. You’re playing sPvP with food.
• The pet maketh the Ranger. They take time to learn which does what and how they work, but are worth the investment.
• Most commanders/guilds do not know how to utilize Roamers. As a result, they’ll usually look at you with disdain. Try to find the ones that know what you bring to the table, and listen to them when they call for your aide. You’ll be SHOCKED at how much a good Havoc player can do in an enemy BL when the ZvZs get started.
• You are NOT PLAYING SOLO. You might not be a part of a party, and you might not see a friendly player for some time while deep in the enemy territories, but you’re not alone. Commanders need information, and you usually have it on hand. If you see the enemy forces while out and about, call it in. More than camps, more than Havoc, more than 1vX, this is the most impacting thing you can do when roaming. Knowing where the enemy blob is allows the commander to set priorities, pick targets, and guide your server to victory.

tl;dr:
Roaming isn’t dead, it’s just changed. Adapt, or Zerg.

I think you really need to define roaming because people will either agree roaming is dead or alive based on how you define it:

Roaming: You run around not with a larger group (15+) playing WvW if it’s killing other groups, flipping bloodlust, or taking objectives.

This form is not dead as many people have mentioned that they see people running around solo with x build. I myself run around as a Bezerker Ranger using Traps and have solo taken towers and defended camps.

Roaming (Honor): Running around with a smaller group (<15) and finding other opponents with similar numbers to try and have fair fights.

This most people will consider dead. I have heard rumors of lower tier servers still having groups that play this way but cannot confirm. The this with this is WvW has never be design around ‘fair’ fights. People normally run to the blob/zerg because they know more numbers can win a fight even if you are out skilled. Most players looking for a PvP experience are looking for the ‘easiest’ way to beat other players to boots their ego, this results in ‘cheesy’ or ‘easy’ to win builds.

TLDR: People running around solo/small gorups still is alive and well they just often don’t look for ‘fair’ fights but that is the nature of WvW and PvP mentality.

Dawdler.8521:

And we cant have roamers running around killing people, can we?

We can’t have morons running around killing people.*

For the past three nights I have been roaming Solo and generally hitting camps where I find solo roamers. Yes the builds have changed but that not an issue with “roaming being dead”. Obviously a lot depends on the tier you are in and the time at which you are in the game. The busier the servers the less likely it is you find solo roamers.

As to Condi versus power and the tendency of more roamers to be Condi these days is NOT an issue. If you will not and can not adapt your own build to deal with changes than that is not a problem with the game. Quite frankly given the goal of a roamer is to flip or defend camps, to scout and to kill other roamers I think the real idiots are the ones who insist on running builds not suited to this as they condemn those that do as being “brain dead”.

Are there issues with current specs builds from a balance perspective? Yep but again this not related to roaming.

Solo roaming? It’s more in a coma with occasional signs of life, rather than dead. But that’s seemingly the trend for quite a while.

Anet has yet to figure out how to solve the issues that were created with the last set of major balance changes and thus all aspects of the game have been disrupted. I don’t consider it a permanent thing, despite my rather microscopic faith in their ability to work things out.

But can you blame people for running those builds when it’s so easy to be bursted down? Being able to disengage is mandatory as there is like no reaction time should it become a 1vX.

EFWinters.5421:

Dawdler.8521:

And we cant have roamers running around killing people, can we?

We can’t have morons running around killing people.*

So you are dying to morons?

The goal of a roamer is to flip camps , intercept yaks, scout and eliminate other roamers. If I am using a build that not suited to this and is being killed by other builds on a regular basis and refuse to adapt then it not the other player that is the moron.

The ability to adapt is available to everyone equally. The willingness to do so is ones own choice. If you will not or can not adapt , it hardly means the other player a moron.

It’s not the conditions that ruin roaming or power builds. It’s the stealth togheter with condis. Mesmers are the worst because they can aplly conditions with illusions without doing much.

babazhook.6805:

EFWinters.5421:

Dawdler.8521:

And we cant have roamers running around killing people, can we?

We can’t have morons running around killing people.*

So you are dying to morons?

The goal of a roamer is to flip camps , intercept yaks, scout and eliminate other roamers. If I am using a build that not suited to this and is being killed by other builds on a regular basis and refuse to adapt then it not the other player that is the moron.

The ability to adapt is available to everyone equally. The willingness to do so is ones own choice. If you will not or can not adapt , it hardly means the other player a moron.

I’m not dying to anyone as I am not playing GW2 currently. I also don’t know why you are talking as if condition builds are better than power builds. Power builds are and have always been better than most condition builds because the skill ceiling is higher. My problem, like I already mentioned, is that the skill floors of many condition builds are high enough that even morons can do well with them.

EFWinters.5421:

babazhook.6805:

EFWinters.5421:

Dawdler.8521:

And we cant have roamers running around killing people, can we?

We can’t have morons running around killing people.*

So you are dying to morons?

The goal of a roamer is to flip camps , intercept yaks, scout and eliminate other roamers. If I am using a build that not suited to this and is being killed by other builds on a regular basis and refuse to adapt then it not the other player that is the moron.

The ability to adapt is available to everyone equally. The willingness to do so is ones own choice. If you will not or can not adapt , it hardly means the other player a moron.

I’m not dying to anyone as I am not playing GW2 currently. I also don’t know why you are talking as if condition builds are better than power builds. Power builds are and have always been better than most condition builds because the skill ceiling is higher. My problem, like I already mentioned, is that the skill floors of many condition builds are high enough that even morons can do well with them.

If you aren’t currently playing then how can you comment on what is going on right now? I play both power and condition builds and neither has a higher skill ceiling than the other. Lastly in my experience people kittenort to name calling in a debate/argument know deep down that they are wrong.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

If you aren’t currently playing then how can you comment on what is going on right now? I play both power and condition builds and neither has a higher skill ceiling than the other. Lastly in my experience people kittenort to name calling in a debate/argument know deep down that they are wrong.

I have friends who play daily. Also I am not calling anyone in this “debate/argument” names.

EFWinters.5421:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

If you aren’t currently playing then how can you comment on what is going on right now? I play both power and condition builds and neither has a higher skill ceiling than the other. Lastly in my experience people kittenort to name calling in a debate/argument know deep down that they are wrong.

I have friends who play daily. Also I am not calling anyone in this “debate/argument” names.

Oooh you edited out the part about my qualifications darn. I’m pretty sure that calling condition players morons is name calling. It really makes me sad that so many players are either unwilling or unable to learn how to counter builds that they don’t like and instead come to the forums and cry.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

EFWinters.5421:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

If you aren’t currently playing then how can you comment on what is going on right now? I play both power and condition builds and neither has a higher skill ceiling than the other. Lastly in my experience people kittenort to name calling in a debate/argument know deep down that they are wrong.

I have friends who play daily. Also I am not calling anyone in this “debate/argument” names.

Oooh you edited out the part about my qualifications darn. I’m pretty sure that calling condition players morons is name calling. It really makes me sad that so many players are either unwilling or unable to learn how to counter builds that they don’t like and instead come to the forums and cry.

While that statement was true I don’t think it would sit well with the mods and has no real bearing on my argument.

To my knowledge I never called condition players morons. I said morons can do well with condition builds.

I think roaming certainly is a dwindling mode. I often try to still solo camps, pick off yaks, or just look for a fight only to find a group of 5 players, typically 2-3 mesmers, thief, and super power “gain quickness for 3 hours on hit” warrior. I usually roam with my necro so I have no other option but to fight and see if I can pull off some miracle but usually get blasted to holy hell if there’s 3 or more players I’ve facing these days.

With the changes over the past few months I feel like balance is even worse. The large scale fights are not much fun as well with 80000 red rings in a choke point and zergs dancing for 20 minutes on who is going to bite first and melt.

WvW game mode certainly isn’t what it use to be, still fun at times but those moments are getting more rare each week.

Iavra.8510:

Nah, it still works, you only have to build slippery enough not to get caught by 5+ ganking groups. That’s why you see a lot of PU mesmers running around.

^^^
This. So much this. Especially in T2.

I dont know about other tiers, but I switched to PU mes cuz YB. Only time I die is when I choose to, like when I jsut get tired of kitten and yolo into a zerg and condi bomb them etc. and on rare occasion when I run into someone thats better then me and actually decide to let combat play itself all the way through. I can disengage and end any combat I want otherwise.

O and if it wasnt for the latest PU patch, I’d be doing it on my thief, even more stealth cheese. Choose your evil.

I think roaming is on it’s way out. This is just my opinion.

• Condi builds are common and I can see why. My problem is that, win or lose, they generally don’t provide a fun fight

• Too many pile on ponies that turn somewhat even fights into lopsided disappointments

• More overall damage output so now whenever you do actually find a fight, its over pretty fast. Hardly worth the running around to find them.

Tongku.5326:

Iavra.8510:

Nah, it still works, you only have to build slippery enough not to get caught by 5+ ganking groups. That’s why you see a lot of PU mesmers running around.

^^^
This. So much this. Especially in T2.

I dont know about other tiers, but I switched to PU mes cuz YB. Only time I die is when I choose to, like when I jsut get tired of kitten and yolo into a zerg and condi bomb them etc. and on rare occasion when I run into someone thats better then me and actually decide to let combat play itself all the way through. I can disengage and end any combat I want otherwise.

O and if it wasnt for the latest PU patch, I’d be doing it on my thief, even more stealth cheese. Choose your evil.

And this is why roaming is dead.

I don’t mind fighting PU condi mesmers or condi thieves but if you lose, you need to stay and die. Running around the BLs for 15 minutes looking for a fight only for my opponent to run when low is stupid.

Nobody fights to the death anymore. It’s either thieves or mesmers who run away or it’s necros and eles who tower hug so they can shroud or most form to safety. It’s bad enough I have to spend so much time looking for fights but I’m not even getting enough gold to supplement my food cost.

Let’s look at it piece by piece. Nobody want to die, so they either group up for safety in numbers or “get good”. For some, “getting good” means improving your skill level. For others, it means playing a build that has a higher skill floor- being more effective with less input of effort and skill. The number of people adhering to the latter far exceeds the former.

As others have already pointed out, the incredible amount of sustain and escapes that condition builds provide make it a no-brainer for most solo/duo-roamers to pick up. Why NOT use X build that gives you both great pressure, durability, and stealth in one package? Yet the very same condition builds that roamers and small groups despise becomes less and less effective as group size scales up.

Each group size that exists in WvW is usually countered by the next larger size. Roamers die to roaming parties. Roaming parties die to guild groups and zergs. Guild groups and zergs die to each other depending on their size and skill. Map queues only stalemate each other until boredom and IRL priorities set in. It’s worth mentioning that since roaming groups and havoc teams usually NEED to have everyone at 100%, losing a single member to a zerg often means resetting proper at spawn.

I think we’re seeing a trend in WvW with group sizes becoming more and more polarized at the high and low ends. Almost every opponent I encounter (I am on DB) is either solo/duo-roaming as a PU Mesmer/glass thief or running with their pugmanders/guildies in groups of 8-15. Guilds from both DH and AR tag up and often number over 25. How is a small roaming group or solo/duo-roamer going to compete with those numbers when nobody wants to split up?

I say the following not to mean any disrespect, but I honestly think that most of the small group roaming guilds you see just aren’t good enough to survive the new realities of engagement. Roamers that make up these guilds tend to be selfish, independent-thinking players that seek damage and not sustain. As the frustration of getting beaten by other roaming guilds, raid guilds, and zergs adds up, people fairweather. They’ll join their own zergs, until recently transfer up a tier so they have more teammates to use as crutches for their own inability to fight, run to spvp for quick thrills, and then complain on the PvF forums about how everyone is running “cheese” builds and “blobbing” up.

After two years of stagnant objected-based WvW play I bet most of these former roamers have either taken to these outs, switched to spvp, or quit the game. The number of guilds that are still willing to put in the effort to improve, theorycraft new builds and group compositions, manage a WvW roster with all the drama and personalities associated with it, and actually possess the skill to win outnumbered fights is far and few between.

Anyways, I want to put in a word for my team and do my part to keep roaming alive. Get Fresh Crew [GFC] is recruiting for WvW havoc and small group roaming. We transferred to Dragonbrand to find fights and our roots come from the predominant Battlefield 4 competitive team, Team Symthic. We have new matchups and fresh faces to fight every week in Silver, and the transfer cost to get here is only 85g.

Thanks for reading.

I had more fun fighting a condi engi the other night, more than running into people who just gank. Much better fights are ones that go on for a while, it’s also good practise, the problem is damage all around is crazy now, especially burning.

Adapt or die, it really is as simple as that.

I’m in mid silver and while I see a some condition users they’re not that prevalent. Most people know a condition Mesmer can be out run and it’s better to gang up (only need 2 really) and burst them. Condi thieves are as annoying as ever but now with trapper runes, again don’t see them often.

To be honest most roamers I see prefer power so they can burst you down and kill you before more people turn up and the fight swings out of their favour.

In Silver EU where you are up against national servers there never was any roaming to begin with. AG has roamers, GH has some, but the national servers feel lonely so fast., So they roam with a full zerg.

apharma.3741:

Adapt or die, it really is as simple as that.

More accurately for most it is compromise your fun or simply do something else other than roaming, be it only playing in raids/zergs, tPvP or another game, most seem to have gone for the ‘do something else’ option, hence why the activity level of roaming/small group is seen as ‘dead’.

But then really this game has never been particularly good for roaming.

It may be me, but imo roaming is just as good / bad as it ever was.

Are there bad players running rewarding builds that require little experience and give solid results? Yes.
Are there good players running such builds? Yes.
Are there players who run original / non meta builds? Yes.
Are there respectable gamers you look forward to meet again? Yes.
Are there immature trolls that disturb duels / jump / teabag / flame / report you for beating them / gank outmanned / hack and / or any combination of these? Oh yes.
Will people team up to kill you? Yes.
Is the behavior of players somehow related to the server they’re on? No, hardly ever.

The only thing that changed is that there are more people that can somewhat handle the game now. Everyone left in WvW usually has at least a bit of an idea how not to instant die or runs a build that makes it hard to do. Thus fighting outmanned often seems harder now.

aspirine.6852:

In Silver EU where you are up against national servers there never was any roaming to begin with. AG has roamers, GH has some, but the national servers feel lonely so fast., So they roam with a full zerg.

Yeah it is mostly like that however we have seen some small scale groups running ahead of a Zerg, flipping camps, disrupting dollys and stuff for 30mins before the Zerg ktrains us.

As for Zinkz, sorry but slotting an extra condition cleanse if you’re running into condition builds or an extra invuln if burst is the flavour of the month is hardly compromising your build. This game is full of silly ideas like sticking to an exact set build and never changing it. You don’t use one tool when putting up shelves so why would you use one build to roam with? So how is that compromising your fun?

Especially now there is literally no obstacle to switching things out on the fly except being ooc.

Silinsar.6298:

It may be me, but imo roaming is just as good / bad as it ever was.

Are there bad players running rewarding builds that require little experience and give solid results? Yes.
Are there good players running such builds? Yes.
Are there players who run original / non meta builds? Yes.
Are there respectable gamers you look forward to meet again? Yes.
Are there immature trolls that disturb duels / jump / teabag / flame / report you for beating them / gank outmanned / hack and / or any combination of these? Oh yes.
Will people team up to kill you? Yes.
Is the behavior of players somehow related to the server they’re on? No, hardly ever.

The only thing that changed is that there are more people that can somewhat handle the game now. Everyone left in WvW usually has at least a bit of an idea how not to instant die or runs a build that makes it hard to do. Thus fighting outmanned often seems harder now.

Thats it ! + 1

I personally have no problem roaming solo with my PU Condi Mesmer.

Nachyochez.9758:

Adapt, or Zerg.

Roaming is dead cos vast majority of players choose the latter, condi vs power has little to do with it, people always played builds that gave them advantage.

Tao.1234:

I personally have no problem roaming solo with my PU Condi Mesmer.

gross

Tao.1234:

I personally have no problem roaming solo with my PU Condi Mesmer.

lol

Tao.1234:

I personally have no problem roaming solo with my PU Condi Mesmer.

I personally have no problem roaming solo with my condi ranger taking out PU mesmers and other stealthed kittens. A well timed sic em followed by a bleed bomb makes most of them melt in seconds.

for reference: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Condi-pu-build/first#post5389446

10/10 would read again.

expandas.7051:

for reference: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Condi-pu-build/first#post5389446

10/10 would read again.

This one is better.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Condi-pu-build/first#post5390133

“Condi builds require no brainpower”

In a sense, yes. As a trap/torch Ranger, I require my opponent to have zero brainpower to defeat them. They need to stand still in the middle of my bonfire swinging their GS at me until they burn to death.

So yeah.

Kheo.2504:

“Condi builds require no brainpower”

In a sense, yes. As a trap/torch Ranger, I require my opponent to have zero brainpower to defeat them. They need to stand still in the middle of my bonfire swinging their GS at me until they burn to death.

So yeah.

That build was great in PvP until recent patch even w/o Runes of Trapper.

Few days ago met a P/D thief with traps and trapper runes – quite interesting build due to traps popping on you and thief not being revealed.
Unfortunately, Thief traps are weak and that build can be easily outplayed.