Guild Wars 2

I really think that the downed HP for players should not be increased by such a large amount.

Its a challenge to roam and fight larger teams in an open field. The issue I have is when you down someone they are given a huge burst of hp. Basically if your fighting someone with 20k hp, and you down them they receive another 40k hp. Isn’t that pretty much fighting 3x times the initial amount?

It is valid to say that you should stomp them. But when your outmanned, in most situations your kiting enemy team with roots, cc, dmg…. You try and stomp someone for 4 seconds while the rest of your team is falling back, will provide you with a death.

I would say its unfair, but wvwvw isnt meant to be fair. I would more like to approach this as a failed mechanic. This is the closest game to DAoC that provides some sort of open rvr fun for people who dont want to fight at bridges , or hump keeps all day.

Please look into dropping the hp amount “rewarded” to someone who is downed in pvp. My suggestion being their regular amount of hp OR 50% of their normal hp…. ESPECIALLY since you can still fight while downed, and most classes have a cc ability while downed.

I think the issue should be resumed to “large party” has a too significant advantage from the ability to revive downed friendlies, such consolidating on a strong number even when a small group of people is doing a good job at taking them down.

What can we do about that ? I don’t think it’s about the total HP when down.

I agree with you to an extent. I believe that it is bad mechanics for when a player reaches 0 hp and becomes down, will LOSE all his conditions he had on him… That doesn’t many ANY sense to me considering the minute hes down you can reapply conditions.

If a player doesn’t lose all conditions when he goes down, that provides dps on his new pool of hp, as well as any targeted or aoe that may hit him after hes down. I believe it is a simple fix, by lowering hp of downed targets from current point, and keeping the conditions that were applied before the character is downed, allowing a marginal amount of dps to be sustained onto the new pool.

This is killing small group roaming yes. Add the 5 target AoE limitation which is a huge advantage for a zerg or a large group (they don’t care about the limitation, they have more players), the fact that a lot of players deal more damage when downed or downed abilities which bounces like the thief one and you have a completely unplayable WvW for smaller groups. Well, it’s still playable before everyone hit level 80, but it won’t last.

Downed hp was reduced by 60-90% in yesterdays patch. It takes literally 10k damage to kill a downed person, was more like 80k before it.

they should just remove the downed state from WvW. hell all the sPvP people dont like it either.

downed state makes it very hard for a smaller skillfull group to do anything against an uncoordinated zerg. is the smaller group takes down some people through excellent coordination they have to then kill them in down state which is almost impossible if you against larger numbers.

on top of this it is extremely unintuitive and unsatisfying to have to kill the same person 2x and it makes the game harder to balance as some classes have significantly superior downed state moves.

I think anet should try to balance WvW so it rewards skillfull tactical play and strategy a bit more and large numbers a bit less.

maybe get rid of the AOE cap or increase it and remove retaliation killing siege weapons.

My favorite part is when the zerg finishes off that Veteran guard and like 7 players rally.

This thread does not reflect my opinion at all. I like downed state, and feel that it benefits our group more the more coordinated we are, because we then get better at responding quickly and protecting resses/stomps.

I think it is intentional. Anet has said (Mike Ferguson said) that they, “don’t want players just farming eachother”

They want you to take objectives. And if your small man is rolling zergs in open field, that’s gonna interfere with objective farmers.

The downed state ensures that “zergs of a certain size” can not be defeated in open field, and can safely move from one objective point to another.

aaron.4317:

I think it is intentional. Anet has said (Mike Ferguson said) that they, “don’t want players just farming eachother”

They want you to take objectives. And if your small man is rolling zergs in open field, that’s gonna interfere with objective farmers.

The downed state ensures that “zergs of a certain size” can not be defeated in open field, and can safely move from one objective point to another.

That depresses me…

I wasn’t aware of that comment.

Do you happen to know around where that came from?

I like the downed mechanic. It’s different and it adds another objective to fight over.

Downstate is the single worst part about this game in PvP.

they can let downed state in but remove the number 2 and 3 abilities. it’s ridiculously hard to finish someone if they can just port away or fear you or whatever else there is. let them have the self heal and actually require teammates to do something. i wouldn’t mind the big HP pool either if i could actually finish a downed thief instead of having to run away because i know he’ll teleport away and his friends(zerg) show up.

I agree but I think another part of it is that 1 sec invulnerability as you’re falling down in my opinion at least. Quite a few times I’ve used a huge attack the moment they are switching to the down state and instead of them taking damage the attack is made null. If 5 players are attacking someone at once and the first attack gets the hit that knocks the player down, the other 4 attacks shouldn’t be made null right there and then. In sPvP perhaps sure, but in w3 its stupid.

absolutely. i can understand that insta death would be a little too much to ask, especially with sub 80s going down fairly quickly to someone with full exotic gear. but the ability to negate a stomp by the downed player really has to go.

The thread didn’t start with “we should remove downed state”. I think the issue to discuss is : “how can they modify downed state so it is not making even stronger a zerg bus”

Removing the #1 would be enough: a lot of players make more damage while in downed state than alive. Especially thieves that have bounces attack on their first spell.

HP wasn’t reduced, downed players still have 30k hp.

A lot of good suggestion and feedback on this topic. I agree that a simple modification from removing downed CC would be a step in the right direction. I personally believe that you should get only 50% of your characters total hp in downed state….

I also think that when you go downed and all of the condition dmg or other types of conditions disappear is a HUGE factor that should be reworked.

I kinda see the direction of what Anet (mike furgeson) commented on, but I dont believe that it should be impacting as much as it is now. A lot of objectives can be accomplished when small man roaming. I am not trying to wipe out 40 people with a 5 man squad… Thats not the goal, would be cool though. The simple opinion that 1 more person which could be a lvl 2 stepping into the battleground for first time can achieve more utility and damage by downed mechanic…Thats stupid.

in wvwvw, numbers should be a reliable advantage. If someone is better than me, I should have the option to still win by convincing more people to follow and help me.

What this is, is a case of John Rambo being sad he can’t kill everyone. Sorry, even superman had kyrptonite.

sorry gelgora but that is just a stupid argument and you hopefully know that. there are different playstyles in every game and just because you don’t like running around with 4 other friends and enjoy zerging more doesn’t mean we have to. and fact is, the downed state as it is atm is not very well though through for WvWvW ( might be for sPvP )

aaron.4317:

I think it is intentional. Anet has said (Mike Ferguson said) that they, “don’t want players just farming eachother”

They want you to take objectives. And if your small man is rolling zergs in open field, that’s gonna interfere with objective farmers.

The downed state ensures that “zergs of a certain size” can not be defeated in open field, and can safely move from one objective point to another.

I don’t know why, but roaming is the most fun type of pvp for many people, me included – the hunting or the surprise of being hunted down is what really gets the adrenaline flowing, probably because it’s so sporadic so it doesn’t become dull (like in spvp) and also when you kill someone – you know it was you who did it, not the massive aoe from another 50+ people.

Why they need to intentionally kill this playstyle is beyond me.

Hopefully – this will change some time.

TL:DR:
large force has advantage over small force.

Um no kidding.

I love how people instead of adapting to the game want the game to change to please them.
Downed state is fine, in fact i enjoy it. Please L2P

If you only thing you have to post is “L2P” just troll somewhere else

GenericName.5046:

I love how people instead of adapting to the game want the game to change to please them.
Downed state is fine, in fact i enjoy it. Please L2P

nah man, I’ve seen 2 ppl wipe 4 – but they were true 80s with exotic gear vs a pug of lowbies (me included). and they were struggling – exactly because of downed state. The amount it takes to finish someone off is kinda stupid. It was irking me ever since I saw the pvp vids on youtube and thought to myself: “Man, this animation takes really long to be performed before the battle is over”

It would be cool if you couldn’t ress yourself and do ranged damage (rally if you manage to down someone in melee is probably OK) – would add a nice touch finishing off heavily wounded enemies like in real battles

But it’s not the issue #1 right now in the World vs World vs Spawn Campers, so whatever, they can really look into it later

Or as you said, ppl will adapt BUT it would be more healthy to adjust the game balance towards skill vs zerg imo, that’s all

Downed state is ridiculous. Zergs already have a huge advantage via AOE limitations and a simple numbers advantage. Throwing downed state into PvP just makes fighting outnumbered an uphill battle (it’s already an issue for many servers, so why exacerbate it?). If you are a group of 10 taking on a group of four and the group of four manages to down three of your players, I’m sorry, but you deserve to die.

Also, there is nothing more obnoxious than having people rally to NPC kills repeatedly in zerg sieges. I feel that in WvWvW, if you’re going to have a downed state, remove rallying. It’s just obnoxious. Or at the very least make a player go straight to dead after the first rally if they haven’t gotten out of combat by the time their health reaches zero.

GenericName.5046:

I love how people instead of adapting to the game want the game to change to please them.

I wanna make that my tagline … well said sir.

I think the downed state is here to stay, but I would like to see some modifications…
Just some thoughts I’ve had in the past:

-Lessen HP of downed state (how much? Idunno, but some. They are dying, not becoming more healthy than when they were up)

-Killing blow animation does % increments of damage to downed players, instead of nothing the whole timer until the end. (25%/sec maybe?)

-Get rid of the ~second of invulnerability and complete removal of conditions when downed. (I have no idea why the invulnerability is thrown in there really. As for the condition removal, that’s complete bull. Condition spec’ed people are at a huge disadvantage here, since they gotta reapply everything to wittle that 40K HP bar. If I stack bleeds on someone and they go down, why in the world are they cauterizing instantly?)

-Underwater downed state is a mess. (Reaching the surface in the downed state grants ~1-2 seconds of invulnerability and removal of all conditions. Anyone ever kill off a downed player bobbing up and down on the surface? Yeah, it’s not pretty…)

IMO small groups still have advantages. It comes to organization and communication. Sure a zerg will be difficult to beat, but with coordination you can quickly finish off a downed player.

I do think some downed skills are just stupid and needs to be looked at for overall balance between classes – but generally I don’t see much of an issue with downed state.
If the enemy is organized, they’ll try to pull up downed players ASAP, and while they do this they’re not hitting you – so it’s pretty much a status quo as I see it.

We’ll see in about 6 months or so when players have adapted more to the warfare going on, how it goes – but I suspect numbers will still be the main factor, but with plenty of targets for smaller roaming groups like we have right now.

I don’t like the fact that some Downed states are impossible to gank anyway you are forced to kill them.

I play an elementalist.