Guild Wars 2

Over the past year I’ve been seeing a recurring scenario in World vs. World and Edge of the Mists; I enter a map and start the trek to my zerg alone. Right when I’m about to reach my zerg I see it: two or more people, one of them my ally, duking it out in the middle of the map. Whenever I do see this I, like the fool I am, only see an ally in need of assistance and decide to try and help fight them off. And as soon as I start attacking my ally immediately stops everything, backs off, and spams local chat with “STOP WE’RE DUELING.” Then I’m ganged up on by all the enemies that were in the area, and none of my team members come to my aide. Not only that but my allies will not even resurrect me when I’m killed, forcing me to go back to a waypoint and begin the journey back to my zerg again.

I understand that it was my misunderstanding that led to my death. I also understand that builds are different in WvW then in SPvP so there’s a need for people to test them in WvW. What I don’t understand is why the locations people have chosen for these duels are in plain sight of any passerby, or in the middle of high-zerg traffic areas. For example: In Edge of the Mists, there is apparently an unofficial “dueling area” that has become more frequently used. It’s right next to the Inferno’s Reactor, which is constantly passed by zergs or people trying to catch up to zergs throughout the 3 hour match period. I’ve also seen people dueling in front of SM in Eternal Battlegrounds, within reach of the cannons. People even duel right outside of respawn points. There are thousands of other locations that are much more inconspicuous than this. For instance, the ruins in any of the two alpine borderlands, or just off the road leading to the north camp (by the skritt or centaur camps). The Obsidian Sanctum JP also has a large flat area at the start, and many people who enter the JP will never attack anybody unless they’re feeling trolly. As for Edge of the Mists, there’s a large underside to the map that is far less traveled by zergs with many platforms that seem ideal for dueling. I know that there are duelers who chose to go to these more inconspicuous locations, and I appreciate that. For those who don’t, please try to understand that WvW has conditioned many people to attack on sight. It’s much easier to move yourselves somewhere safe then to expect everyone to just run by you.

But another behavior has developed off of these duelers that has become a real problem. There are many gankers who go to areas like the unofficial dueling area by Inferno’s generator and pose as duelers. Because it’s become habitual now for zergs to pass duelers the gankers are completely ignored. Then the gankers proceed to attack the tail of the zerg, without fear of reprisal. There are also people who are “observing” duels that will sometimes actively attack a passerby, even if said passerby has no intention of attacking them because they’ve recognized that they are dueling. It’s a sick behavior and it makes it hard for people to tell the difference between a dueler and a troll.

What I think would permanently solve this problem though is if Arenanet just creates the option to challenge anyone to an open duel. The challenged can chose to accept or reject the challenge, and the duel only continues until someone is downed. Many other MMOs have already had this feature in their games for years. Arenanet may have not included it because from the start they’ve wanted this game to be about teamwork and cooperation, and open dueling may seem a little too “loner” for their tastes. But dueling is a great way for people to socialize and to build their personal skill and, yes, to test a new build. Putting an open dueling feature in would clear up a lot of confusion and frustration that develops because of gankers, and give an outlet for real duelers to play the game they want to without having to go to extreme measures. To be clear, I don’t want dueling to go away, I just want it to be smarter.

Honestly those duelers who will continue to attack you even after you respect them and stop fighting, and the people from your server who refuse to rez you after you made a mistake, are just kittening kittens. Considering they can’t seem to treat you with respect I wouldn’t give a kitten about respecting them.

Duelers who do respect you though are a different matter. It would be nice if we could get an official Duel option, perhaps one that makes you temporarily invincible to NPCs and other players who aren’t participating (and consequently makes you deal 0 damage to them, to avoid abuse).

In terms of psychology, people very often assume either that everyone knows, or at least should know, what they know. In MMO’s we see this in things like meta-builds, dungeon, PvP and WvW tactics, even content abbreviations. If one is in the know, others should be. This may apply to dueling locations and the etiquette attached to that activity.

As to players being kittens if you’ve either interrupted their fun or dared to walk too close, well, this is also part of human nature. In either case, you’ve displayed you aren’t one of them. That makes you fair game. I say this not to excuse the behavior, but to suggest that it won’t be going away, and avoiding them might be better for your blood pressure.

Spending my own time there almost entirely roaming by myself looking for good duels or small fights and all – I still think that some people take the concept of honorable duels in WvW way too far.
An open battleground is still an open battle ground. It is my own bad luck to have an enemy interrupt my 1vs1 fights and vise versa.

I am a big fan of the rule ‘A red name is a dead name’. And if you decide to jump someone or not is entirely up to you.
It is so silly to be in the situation where you have two enemies, one of them fighting your ally, just to watch them gang up on that person after he was about to win. Quite astonishing how quickly many seem to forget about the rules once they start losing.

In any case, I agree with you. We have been begging them to implement a true duel feature for ages now.
There is no area outside of WvW where you can wait for random opponents interested in duels to show up. I met so many players that way in other games.
Our current options always limit you down to having very few people as your possible opponents. You end up asking your friends or guild mates to join a sPvP map or go to the guild hall with you. Public dueling servers are always brought up but even those will only have very few people to practice against.

Other games had areas outside of towns or cities, right outside the gates, where people met for duels. This stopps cities from getting anymore crowded and laggy than they already are and leaves grinding areas clean for PvE. It also got newbies all excited about the game when they left the starting city and instantly saw all of the big boys fighting with their shiny toys.
They could try to do some sort of a test run outside one of the major cities. Just to see how popular that would be.

I mean, I am aware how very unlikely that is. People in this game seem to hate dueling features with a passion.

Been a fan of the idea of open dueling since the start. Would be a great way to kill time while waiting for Teq to spawn or whatever. It’s been more than four years now however.. It’s starting to seem unlikely. :/

I suppose there’s still a possibility though, I mean Elder Scrolls Online JUST got dueling a few days ago with their one Tamriel update.

Red is dead. Do not make agreements that hurt your team. Be it dueling or swapping keeps.

I would condone “dueling” if done to benefit your team.

• keep the enemy forward waypoint contested
• capture interest of N+ enemy spectators who just stand there in awe
• slow down enemy zerg forcing them to go long way around your dueling grounds
• engage in lenghty discussion with the enemy commander about proper dueling ethics
• protect your team’s gank squad saying they are dueling whenever they need to escape enemy zerg
• kill solo enemy players returning to the frontlines
• cut off supply lines to enemy keeps
• halt enemy roaming party to 1v1 you instead of killing you 1v5

If dueling was popular, ANet would extend sPvP, guild halls arenas, LFG tool or major cities with a dueling option.

I’ve always upheld a simple opinion. If you enter WvW, you gotta be prepared to be killed by the other worlds. Its a war, not a college hall. No one’s gonna respect your ‘right to 1v1’ in the middle of a warzone

Korgov.7645:

Red is dead. Do not make agreements that hurt your team. Be it dueling or swapping keeps.

I would condone “dueling” if done to benefit your team.

• keep the enemy forward waypoint contested
• capture interest of N+ enemy spectators who just stand there in awe
• slow down enemy zerg forcing them to go long way around your dueling grounds
• engage in lenghty discussion with the enemy commander about proper dueling ethics
• protect your team’s gank squad saying they are dueling whenever they need to escape enemy zerg
• kill solo enemy players returning to the frontlines
• cut off supply lines to enemy keeps
• halt enemy roaming party to 1v1 you instead of killing you 1v5

If dueling was popular, ANet would extend sPvP, guild halls arenas, LFG tool or major cities with a dueling option.

And that is why if i feel like annoying zergs and make things bad (after being ganked on a duel) when they r about to face off my own server zerg, i go judges intervention all the way on the backline when the push starts then pop my invul elite plus blocks dodge stability etc and its quite impressive how half of ur zerg gives up on the push just to kill one guy. I dislike zerging and the lack of skill it requires.

The longer I play the less respect I have for duelers outside of the Windmill on Alpine and a few areas near SM. If someone doesn’t help out in pretty much any outnumbered situation outside those areas, they are just kittens IMO.

So if you are dueling in places like N of Alpine S camp or between Garri and Bay, expect to get blown up if I see you. Oh and yes I fully embrace the repercussions as I am sure any number of dueling guilds will attest.

With the current anomaly events going on in PvE-land, I feel like it is a tease and am getting optimistic that open-world PvP is going to be a thing in this game.

Chaba.5410:

With the current anomaly events going on in PvE-land, I feel like it is a tease and am getting optimistic that open-world PvP is going to be a thing in this game.

You mean because sometimes you use the item and become hostile? I used that thing several times and never got it off… I haz sads.

I find it hilarious that this issue keeps coming up.

First, to the OP, yeah, an open duel option could address many of the common points of friction between duelers and others. No problem with the suggestion… I don’t think it’ll be implemented, but the thought is appreciated.

But those who’ve got the whole, “I won’t respect duelers because… reasons”. That’s fine, you don’t have to. You can go ahead and attack people who are dueling just because you want to. That just makes you a kitten, spoiling other peoples’ enjoyment because you can’t tolerate it happening.

The repercussions, of course, is that they’ll blow you up whenever you’re not in the safety of your large group. Your server mates who were spectating won’t save you, they’ll think less of you, and they’ll be less inclined to respond to your callouts for help. People from both opposing servers may even target you (and your guildmates) on the battlefield for some extra schooling.

The better approach is to not be a kitten. To let people enjoy the game how they want, instead of acting like some sort of video game fascist.

Choppy.4183:

I find it hilarious that this issue keeps coming up.

First, to the OP, yeah, an open duel option could address many of the common points of friction between duelers and others. No problem with the suggestion… I don’t think it’ll be implemented, but the thought is appreciated.

But those who’ve got the whole, “I won’t respect duelers because… reasons”. That’s fine, you don’t have to. You can go ahead and attack people who are dueling just because you want to. That just makes you a kitten, spoiling other peoples’ enjoyment because you can’t tolerate it happening.

The repercussions, of course, is that they’ll blow you up whenever you’re not in the safety of your large group. Your server mates who were spectating won’t save you, they’ll think less of you, and they’ll be less inclined to respond to your callouts for help. People from both opposing servers may even target you (and your guildmates) on the battlefield for some extra schooling.

The better approach is to not be a kitten. To let people enjoy the game how they want, instead of acting like some sort of video game fascist.

That’s a double edged argument. Duelers need to recognize that WvW is essentially a free for all on anyone not in your server. They can ask you to be nice and leave them alone, but they absolutely should not be upset if you don’t, because its part of the game mode that you can and will be attacked at random by people from other servers. They have no rights to get out of that simply because they like to duel, so they really should not be getting nearly as upset as what OP described or what you describe

Sry OP but I don’t see anet doing this. They made OS a dueling zone…..gave it a nice colloseum for duelers to fight in. Nobody uses it but that’s besides the point. Your asking anet to admit their original idea was stupid and to do all this work to create a new one…..one that will cause them to get ALOT of reports/customerserviceproblems.

And honestly? Duelers pretty much don’t exist anymore. Its very very rare that I will come across them. For some reason the last week I’ve come across 2 very easy to spot dueling zones setup by players….but before that I could never find any anywhere when i searched for some.
There isn’t an inherent need. There isn’t enough demand. It goes against the zerg meta.
3 reasons right there why it won’t be implemented.

As fas as dueling in wvw its fine as long as a few conditions are considered.
- Not in public areas such around Stone Mist Castle
- Done out of the way areas like below South camp in the alpine borderlands or the Odsidian Sanctum etc…
- Expect to get ran over by a zerg or havoc group if dueling in the open.

Many people will duel around a camp/towers and when the native server is gone, BAM objective captured so if someones dueling around a objective that your server needs to keep go ahead mow them over. They clearly have a good place to duel uninterrupted and its not around camps and objectives.

Let’s say if they ever do think about implementing a dueling system, maybe they could do it so that if they accept the challenge they are transported to an arena freeing up a spot on the map and when they are done (possibly end match via an emote or timer) they will be automatically put back on the map they were on (and/or automatically queued into it). Less chance of trollers trying to contest stuff, less chance of being run over by a zerg, less chance of bystanders chasing zerg tails, and gives a chance to let people get onto the map, etc. However whether duelers will actually use the function if implemented is a different story altogether potentially rendering it useless. Just an idea though cos I can’t really think of anything else other than dueling spots at some far corner of the map which will still be useless if duelers don’t bother. In the end I don’t think there is an easy way to deal with this due to whether the player wanting to adhere to it on their own will.

OriOri.8724:

That’s a double edged argument. Duelers need to recognize that WvW is essentially a free for all on anyone not in your server. They can ask you to be nice and leave them alone, but they absolutely should not be upset if you don’t, because its part of the game mode that you can and will be attacked at random by people from other servers. They have no rights to get out of that simply because they like to duel, so they really should not be getting nearly as upset as what OP described or what you describe

I completely agree. The reason I find it hilarious that this keeps coming up is that it’s not all that complicated.

Don’t be a kitten, understand that accidents will happen, accept the consequences of your actions, and all should be good. Yet we keep coming back to people telling others how the game ought to be played.

Choppy.4183:

OriOri.8724:

That’s a double edged argument. Duelers need to recognize that WvW is essentially a free for all on anyone not in your server. They can ask you to be nice and leave them alone, but they absolutely should not be upset if you don’t, because its part of the game mode that you can and will be attacked at random by people from other servers. They have no rights to get out of that simply because they like to duel, so they really should not be getting nearly as upset as what OP described or what you describe

I completely agree. The reason I find it hilarious that this keeps coming up is that it’s not all that complicated.

Don’t be a kitten, understand that accidents will happen, accept the consequences of your actions, and all should be good. Yet we keep coming back to people telling others how the game ought to be played.

Agreed.

Why it matters so much to some people how others choose to spend their time in WvW I’ll never understand. Leave the duellers be or have the proper etiquette.
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At the OP:

As for the “duellers” in EOTM… There are in fact a lot of them that pose as duellers but are not duelling. Try to avoid that area unless you’re confident you can fight back. There are plenty of other routes that can get you to any part of the map without ever having to pass that area.

As for why they duel there? I couldn’t honestly tell you why that became a popular spot. Ideal duelling areas are in spots that are high visibility but not high traffic. Areas that roamers will often pass through but not zergs. In EOTM, there aren’t many places like that. Either it’s so out of the way that no one ever passes through there or it’s a regular zerging route. There aren’t many inbetweens in EOTM so I suppose the spot next to Inferno’s Needle was the best people could come up with.

Well do you have a gunfight on a complete strangers lawn while not expecting the home owner not to shoot you as well or have the cops called on you? Or do you go to a place thats meant to have a gunfight in?. Just because its continent right where your at you’ll have more fun if you go somewhere you don’t have to watch your back for a zerg. There are safe places to duel, go there and use them.

dragonrage.8921:

Well do you have a gunfight on a complete strangers lawn while not expecting the home owner not to shoot you as well or have the cops called on you? Or do you go to a place thats meant to have a gunfight in?. Just because its continent right where your at you’ll have more fun if you go somewhere you don’t have to watch your back for a zerg. There are safe places to duel, go there and use them.

Is SM in danger because 3 enemies and 3 allies are standing around it with their hands in their pockets?
Use some common sense.

Duelers around SMC are just idiots if people expect that their duels to be honored its not a good place for it period. Some may respect them but any zerg running by will probably run over them.

I have no sympathy for duelers, they cried and complained there was no place to duel and when Anet made them a space (the arena in obsidian sanctum) they used it for about two weeks before they where back at dueling in wvw.

To my knowledge, people use the Inferno’s Needle spot because it’s roughly equidistant from the three spawns (OG sort of gets the short end of the stick here), isn’t situated behind any walls or gates, and has plenty of escape routes/visibility to flee from incoming zergs. The areas under the middle of the map are either too cramped or have sentry npcs that would get in the way of duels, plus the lack of accessibility would actually be a drawback if a zerg ever did come through.

An open-world dueling option would be great, but I doubt it’ll ever be implemented due to complaints that it would cause flaming/trolling in PvE maps. Personally, I think the easiest solution would be to just make OS a megaserver-ish map like EotM so that people in different tiers could fight each other there.

dragonrage.8921:

Duelers around SMC are just idiots if people expect that their duels to be honored its not a good place for it period. Some may respect them but any zerg running by will probably run over them.

It has been the main spot for duellers for years on several servers I’ve been on. So maybe your demands come a bit late.

I do agree though that it would be nice if structures had to be touched again to be contested.

This is why we wanted a dueling mode.

Kill everything. No two kittens given.

Famine.7915:

Kill everything. No two kittens given.

I mean, it’s a free country and all, but… You don’t throw mud at someone just because you can, you know?

I don’t care if people want to interrupt duels. I understand that I don’t have any kind of “right” to be duelling. But no one has any right to be an as_wipe either. If me and the person I’m duelling aren’t bothering anyone, leave us be.

/shrug

I get that a lot of duellers are pretentious jerks who freak out if they’re interrupted. That doesn’t mean everyone is, though. And I can’t say I blame a lot of them considering how many zerglings like to sit on the nearest cannons and blast away after they’ve been told time and again to stop.

Nah just me. I don’t give two kittens anyways. In this game, I do “throw mud” at people just because I can. Punish me for it and fight back. :/

the best part is when u duel and get run over by a whole blob well i have few friends from other BL when we duel we go out of blobs/roamers way like all the way behind south camp in alpine BL far north west of EB there u can duel with no interruption

Oddly enough there seems to be a large arena like room in the obsidian sanctum that seems to serve NO purpose what so ever to my knowledge and the map itself is almost always deserted. That might be a good place to dual or do GvG without interference.

Grand Avatar of Destruction.2537:

Oddly enough there seems to be a large arena like room in the obsidian sanctum that seems to serve NO purpose what so ever to my knowledge and the map itself is almost always deserted. That might be a good place to dual or do GvG without interference.

Its an excellent place to duel

Duel in OS or underneath EotM. If everyone does that, there will be more duels to be found, and people will stop complaining about duels taking up space where they are not welcome.

Anet should introduce Duel Mode. Dueler 1 right clicks and select Duel on dueler 2, dueler 2 can accept or reject duel, if accepted a countdown of 5 seconds starts and the duel starts inside a 2500 diameter circle, they only do and take damage from each other, doesn’t get buffs from keeps or whatever and can’t affect wvw in any other way.

yiksing.9432:

Anet should introduce Duel Mode. Dueler 1 right clicks and select Duel on dueler 2, dueler 2 can accept or reject duel, if accepted a countdown of 5 seconds starts and the duel starts inside a 2500 diameter circle, they only do and take damage from each other, doesn’t get buffs from keeps or whatever and can’t affect wvw in any other way.

They still take up space. That is the problem. Making them invulnerable just stops people from ruining the duels.

“Taking up space”. Hah! That’s the typical argument of people who think “They not running with the blob, they must be kicked”.
As long someone is not griefing with siege/tactivators and other stuff, they are free to do whatever they want… Honestly, you problably have more “afk farmers” than duelers in your map anyway.

Jeknar.6184:

“Taking up space”. Hah! That’s the typical argument of people who think “They not running with the blob, they must be kicked”.
As long someone is not griefing with siege/tactivators and other stuff, they are free to do whatever they want… Honestly, you problably have more “afk farmers” than duelers in your map anyway.

I almost never run with the blob. I scout and havoc. I don’t think anybody needs to run with the blob if they find another way to contribute. Dueling doesn’t contribute (no kills, hardly any scouting, weakens the small scale scene by having all the roamers afk and wait for 1v1s). It can be done just as well in Obsidian Sanctum. I think dueling can help improve a player, but I don’t think WvW is a good place to duel.

Unfortunely the only place where you are likely to meet up other people with you may duel is WvW. Obsidian sanctum have the arena, but what are the chances that you gonna run into someone there?

Chances are pretty good if it is recognized as the unofficial dueling hub.
However, if Arenanet acknowledged the dueling community and created a matchmaking system for them, there would be no need for discussion.
WvW 1v1s are often more fun to watch than sPvP tournaments too.

OS still get used sometimes when people prepare somenthing beforehand (like the old thursday fight nights some NA tiers used to do). But that’s it.
The problem is: nobody gonna wait in there doing nothing waiting for someone to show up. Thus why the duels end up happening in the WvW maps… Duelers are nothing more than roamers that crossed paths and decided to duel. And others that saw them dueling and decided to have their shots.
If they decided to duel, it mean they have more fun doing it than doing whatever they were doing prior. Why would someone be against others have their fun when they are not hurting the game in any way?

Grand Avatar of Destruction.2537:

Oddly enough there seems to be a large arena like room in the obsidian sanctum that seems to serve NO purpose what so ever to my knowledge and the map itself is almost always deserted. That might be a good place to dual or do GvG without interference.

It used to be the GvG and duel spot till the game died out, oddly enough it was put in because people took up valuable PPT spots when it was organised south of the windmill on a borderland. Some commanders hated it so much they would roll zergs through there.

Now duels are mostly organic and happen when they happen, there is a common area that roamers can engage in and turn it into a dueling area but it requires 2 players of even skill. You won’t find a duel happening from a 1-3s fight.