Guild Wars 2

So yesterday they announced that the new pvp system, Stronghold, is going to be 5v5. This was supposed to be the new “competitive guild content” with a “guild leaderboard”.

They ignored what the wvw community has been asking. Would like to know what you guys think about it. I personally feel disappointed that it is not 8v8 or more. Looks like they won’t give up on pushing us the esport/moba thing even if it is not what players want.

Source: http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-stronghold/

on the comments they said “5v5, as per the standard sPvP mode. Although Stronghold supports custom lobbies, so you can make games with more players.”

When have they ever cared about Wvw players??

Do you c much red activity here ?

Did you really hope that posting this for 99999999th time helps you feel better ?

:\ That’s unfortunate news.

And what exactly has the WvW community been asking? I would like to know because it sounds like you (the OP) want a Guild vs. Guild type of thing, and last I checked, a server/world is made up of MANY guilds, some of which are spread across several worlds. You can’t do a proper Guild vs. Guild in World vs. World, it’s just not feasible.

Bristingr.5034:

And what exactly has the WvW community been asking? I would like to know because it sounds like you (the OP) want a Guild vs. Guild type of thing, and last I checked, a server/world is made up of MANY guilds, some of which are spread across several worlds. You can’t do a proper Guild vs. Guild in World vs. World, it’s just not feasible.

The problem is not it be located in spvp. I actually prefer the spvp style of gear is free over the wvw one. The problem relies on the fact that it is 5v5.

I don’t understand the logic. Guilds have a capacity of 500 members, WvW groups usually from 10-60, guild missions groups from 10-40ish, GvG’s in OS usually around 10-15 and now the “true” gvg format is going to be 5v5, representing 1% of a guild’s potential capacity. If people wanted gvg to be 5v5, they would be doing 5v5’s in OS. I don’t see how you can assign guild rankings to a guild based on such a small percentage of their members. Most of the guildies you play with in WvW and other places will not be able to gvg with you because there’s not enough room.

Maybe only player who can complete guild missions can take part. Maybe guild need to build max level guild hall before they can play game mode. It’s clear that some 5 man sPvP team can’t play this because they aren’t guild and they already have own game mode.

Not suprised. Party size is 5. Idk how they would have made the matchups if they didn’t stick with almost the same party system they use in sPvP now. Custom lobby where you can be more than 5 is the simplest sollution to the problem without completely reworking the matching system.

I knew this would be the case, they have already stated they are not working on GVG at this time. From GW1, I never considered stronghold to be GVG, I am not sure why people thought it was, since other games had actual guild wars with hundreds of people fighting. Guild wars is sadly one of the few games where they do not have actual guild wars. I have no idea why they named it that when there have been games out long before GW1 that actually have massive guild wars battles, and they had no intention of implementing that when that is what people considered to be guild wars in the first place.

It is kinda like naming your game “Oceans of Fury” with no oceans in it.

Don’ t worry guys. Black desert will come out soon. That’ s a game where you will be able to do GvG.
Whereas..for Guild wars 2..I have no more words.

Darkness.9732:

Don’ t worry guys. Black desert will come out soon. That’ s a game where you will be able to do GvG.
Whereas..for Guild wars 2..I have no more words.

It’s 2016 for EU/NA most likely second half.
it will be Free to play whit Cash shop and most likely it will be Pay to Win. I had extremly high hopes for that game (was exited about blader) but now it seemes to go in ver bad way like AA went down the toilet whit big pile of S.

First off I’ve never played guild wars 1, but I have watched multiple videos on their so called “GvG.” it looked good with the 8v8 system, but a real GvG imo should consist of atleast 10 players although most would consider that to be “zerging” which makes no sense if you actually played starcraft. And yes in a moba you do have the standard 5v5 setup where 1 of the 3 lanes could be either oversupported (3 players) or undersupported (1) and it creates an equal balance of the strategy used by either team.

My opinion is that if this “GvG” is using the conquest setup (5v5) the same way as do lanes, “top, mid, bot.” there is not much difference and you’re just overpromoting a moba with a few variances such as siege and supplies. The lord at either side isn’t anything new either, perhaps taken from GW1 sure, but it’s basically the Nexus from LoL, same goes with the creeps that help you to take out the gates (skritt and tengu).

Finally, as someone mentioned above 5 players from your guild of up to 500 players does not constitute a proper reflection of your guild’s performance in this so called GvG, especially when any 5 players can start their own guild and act as a guild, when in essence they’re just a party.

Anet won’t let up on the whole esports idea so what did you expect. Ever watch a 20 man GvG between top guilds? There are spell affects shooting all over the place so it is confusing as hell for anyone who is not already a gw2 veteran and the fights can last 10 minutes or more between equally matched teams. That makes the whole concept unmarketable.

Actually 5v5 is better for stronghold format then normal spvp. There will be lots of creeps running on that lanes so we don’t need more players or it will be one big zerg fight like in wvw. Also its no secret that anet got esport aspirations and more then 10 players in game its just bad to watch, and comment.
People probably count on some 20v20 zerg deathmatches but this will probably never happen .

Bristingr.5034:

And what exactly has the WvW community been asking? I would like to know because it sounds like you (the OP) want a Guild vs. Guild type of thing, and last I checked, a server/world is made up of MANY guilds, some of which are spread across several worlds. You can’t do a proper Guild vs. Guild in World vs. World, it’s just not feasible.

I agree with the questiin here. The OP and others, are very problematic to the game and it’s community. They dishonestly claim to speak for others who they have no permission to speak for. I am part of the WvW community, and I could care less for GvG. I can appreciate why a small part of the community would enjoy a GvG designed aspect, but when you dishonestly misrepresent others to promote your desire for it, you condemn your own argument in my opinion.

sigh
/15 characters

coglin.1867:

Bristingr.5034:

And what exactly has the WvW community been asking? I would like to know because it sounds like you (the OP) want a Guild vs. Guild type of thing, and last I checked, a server/world is made up of MANY guilds, some of which are spread across several worlds. You can’t do a proper Guild vs. Guild in World vs. World, it’s just not feasible.

I agree with the questiin here. The OP and others, are very problematic to the game and it’s community. They dishonestly claim to speak for others who they have no permission to speak for. I am part of the WvW community, and I could care less for GvG. I can appreciate why a small part of the community would enjoy a GvG designed aspect, but when you dishonestly misrepresent others to promote your desire for it, you condemn your own argument in my opinion.

I think you fail to understand the numbers involved here, They have even been making online petitions over a year ago that most were not even aware of to sign up for asking for this:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/official-gvg-setup-in-gw2/

For players to go as far to even try to petition, even a year ago, when now the numbers that do gvg are even higher than then shows there are players who greatly desire this. Although myself and others I have spoke with who would support that petition were not even aware of it existing to sign it, as many have this sentiment, just have not " organized a united front to make a formal request to Anet".

You mistake people openly discussing their desires in games among friends, as " I speak for everyone" when that is not the case, even if those friends happen to represent their very large guilds. It is how you interpret what people are saying that is the issue here, not what they are actually stating. You see, I personally would probably " sit out" of GvG Events, as I have not as much interest in that anymore myself, but the people I enjoy playing Guild Wars with have expressed their dissatisfaction with not having GVG available for them. You see, I do not even want to play GvG, I want this implemented for others who do. I think you misjudge and misunderstand what people are telling you here. I have heard this from so many, even though I personally would not even use that game mode myself.

Relaying what is being discussed among friends in the hopes that these things change so they do not discontinue playing the game is not the same as " lets try to make what I want in the game seem more important." I personally would not even use it myself, I am bringing attention to GvG because I have heard many people that are very frustrated over it currently, and wish to have it resolved for them. Attacking people bringing attention to this concern does not help resolve the issue that they may leave game over this further reducing the games population. Attacking people for having concerns in the first place is toxic to the community to begin with. That is far more problematic than people trying to prevent further game population decline.

Then exactly how does one do a GvG? There has to be a cap to how many can participate, because I doubt a map would do well in 500 vs. 500.

A guild of 5 people would never be able to go up against the larger guilds of 50, or 100+.

But the way I am understanding is, they don’t want a cap. They want to bring their ENTIRE guild, which just isn’t feasible. Most players would suffer from graphical and hardware lag.

What do you want? 10 vs. 10? 20 vs. 20? How would it even work? 20 rounds of 1 vs. 1? Gzerg vs. Gzerg?

The next thing is, how would players even want it? Similar to WvW (keeping towers and keeps) or just a massive Colosseum (similar to Obsidian Sanctum), that would allow spectators to watch from the stands?

Lastly, how would this affect World vs. World? How many players would it pull away from WvW?

Bristingr.5034:

Then exactly how does one do a GvG? There has to be a cap to how many can participate, because I doubt a map would do well in 500 vs. 500.

A guild of 5 people would never be able to go up against the larger guilds of 50, or 100+.

But the way I am understanding is, they don’t want a cap. They want to bring their ENTIRE guild, which just isn’t feasible. Most players would suffer from graphical and hardware lag.

What do you want? 10 vs. 10? 20 vs. 20? How would it even work? 20 rounds of 1 vs. 1? Gzerg vs. Gzerg?

The next thing is, how would players even want it? Similar to WvW (keeping towers and keeps) or just a massive Colosseum (similar to Obsidian Sanctum), that would allow spectators to watch from the stands?

Lastly, how would this affect World vs. World? How many players would it pull away from WvW?

On other games, yea we actually had battles with over a thousand people. However, I think many would be happy here even if it were just a 40vs 40 cap for large scale GvG such as wildstar has.

There are pros and cons to pulling guilds from wvw for GVG. First, The good news is, sometimes you get a map que and own no keeps or towers because they are only focused on fighting and not ppt, yea those guys would not be on map taking up space, making room for more ppters. There would be more focus in wvw on ppt instead.

The bad news is , if all your server has is fight guilds, ya you are going to drop fast. But if they actually resolved the current population imbalance issues properly, that would not happen, as the servers would have already been condensed and restructured by then.

Ideally I’d want 15v15, 25v25, and 40v40 modes, the 5v5 can stay too. I’d want it to be a structured siege game that’s simply a mini version of WvW. Whoever caps the other teams keep wins.

I’d love it if guilds could issue challenges to other guilds too with a scheduled start time. Something like “Hey scrubs, I’ll see you at 8pm EST on friday, bring your best!”

lil devils x.6071:

Bristingr.5034:

Then exactly how does one do a GvG? There has to be a cap to how many can participate, because I doubt a map would do well in 500 vs. 500.

A guild of 5 people would never be able to go up against the larger guilds of 50, or 100+.

But the way I am understanding is, they don’t want a cap. They want to bring their ENTIRE guild, which just isn’t feasible. Most players would suffer from graphical and hardware lag.

What do you want? 10 vs. 10? 20 vs. 20? How would it even work? 20 rounds of 1 vs. 1? Gzerg vs. Gzerg?

The next thing is, how would players even want it? Similar to WvW (keeping towers and keeps) or just a massive Colosseum (similar to Obsidian Sanctum), that would allow spectators to watch from the stands?

Lastly, how would this affect World vs. World? How many players would it pull away from WvW?

On other games, yea we actually had battles with over a thousand people. However, I think many would be happy here even if it were just a 40vs 40 cap for large scale GvG such as wildstar has.

There are pros and cons to pulling guilds from wvw for GVG. First, The good news is, sometimes you get a map que and own no keeps or towers because they are only focused on fighting and not ppt, yea those guys would not be on map taking up space, making room for more ppters. There would be more focus in wvw on ppt instead.

The bad news is , if all your server has is fight guilds, ya you are going to drop fast. But if they actually resolved the current population imbalance issues properly, that would not happen, as the servers would have already been condensed and restructured by then.

2 quick questions…

1. Is it profitable to have this game mode? esport wise

This is how you have to think… this is not about your friends or how many petitions you sign, is about business, Anet is a private entity not a charity one.

2. “40vs40”… How would those with bad gpu/cpu be able to handle it?

As a developer you have to think possible scenarios not only throw random suggestions. This is GW2 not WildStar, two different games, two different studios.

Would it have stretched the technical limits to make it at least 10’s?
Yeah, the GvG 15-20 crowd would not have been pleased, but they would have been mollified a bit.

Then reading the article, it does sound like another attempt to emulate MOBAs and more myopic focus on e-sports.

Seriously, what caused this obsession?

requiem.5279:

lil devils x.6071:

Bristingr.5034:

Then exactly how does one do a GvG? There has to be a cap to how many can participate, because I doubt a map would do well in 500 vs. 500.

A guild of 5 people would never be able to go up against the larger guilds of 50, or 100+.

But the way I am understanding is, they don’t want a cap. They want to bring their ENTIRE guild, which just isn’t feasible. Most players would suffer from graphical and hardware lag.

What do you want? 10 vs. 10? 20 vs. 20? How would it even work? 20 rounds of 1 vs. 1? Gzerg vs. Gzerg?

The next thing is, how would players even want it? Similar to WvW (keeping towers and keeps) or just a massive Colosseum (similar to Obsidian Sanctum), that would allow spectators to watch from the stands?

Lastly, how would this affect World vs. World? How many players would it pull away from WvW?

On other games, yea we actually had battles with over a thousand people. However, I think many would be happy here even if it were just a 40vs 40 cap for large scale GvG such as wildstar has.

There are pros and cons to pulling guilds from wvw for GVG. First, The good news is, sometimes you get a map que and own no keeps or towers because they are only focused on fighting and not ppt, yea those guys would not be on map taking up space, making room for more ppters. There would be more focus in wvw on ppt instead.

The bad news is , if all your server has is fight guilds, ya you are going to drop fast. But if they actually resolved the current population imbalance issues properly, that would not happen, as the servers would have already been condensed and restructured by then.

2 quick questions…

1. Is it profitable to have this game mode? esport wise

This is how you have to think… this is not about your friends or how many petitions you sign, is about business, Anet is a private entity not a charity one.

2. “40vs40”… How would those with bad gpu/cpu be able to handle it?

As a developer you have to think possible scenarios not only throw random suggestions. This is GW2 not WildStar, two different games, two different studios.

How does their cpu currently handle wvw pops of 80 players per server on map? 40 vs 40 is far less than the wvw 80 vs 80 vs 80.

I am not seeing how having smaller teams would be more profitable for Anet. In what way would smaller esports teams be more profitable than larger ones? Simply because most esports are small scale does not mean that there is not room for much larger esports teams. That isn’t what determines whether or not it becomes popular. Hell even Wow’s 3 on 3 battles are considered unwatchable as far as esports are concerned, numbers are not the issue there, it is the game design itself.

ALSO I do not think 40 vs 40 should be the only mode, it should have dueling/ 5v5, 10v10, 20 v20 options as well.. 40 being the max.

You can compare real sports to gaming as well, and the NFL, which is extremely profitable for example, has more than 5 on 5. Focusing on numbers isn’t going to help, as many games do not cut it as an esport even with small scale pvp, that will not be the determining factor as to whether or not it is profitable. What surely ISN’T profitable however, is running off large guilds by telling them they are not welcome here.

an interesting read that hopefully the people at ANet have looked over http://www.vg247.com/2014/07/09/league-of-legends-smite-heroes-moba-bandwagon-disaster/

GW2 has a lot of originality in it’s platform here, but they run the risk of being all things to no people.

Chris.3290:

an interesting read that hopefully the people at ANet have looked over http://www.vg247.com/2014/07/09/league-of-legends-smite-heroes-moba-bandwagon-disaster/

GW2 has a lot of originality in it’s platform here, but they run the risk of being all things to no people.

Even wow with it’s massive budget and advertising beast couldn’t cut it in esports there even with 3vs 3.. not sure why they want to cut off their nose to spite their face to just “try”, as there is no guarantee of success there.. at all.

lil devils x.6071:

coglin.1867:

Bristingr.5034:

And what exactly has the WvW community been asking? I would like to know because it sounds like you (the OP) want a Guild vs. Guild type of thing, and last I checked, a server/world is made up of MANY guilds, some of which are spread across several worlds. You can’t do a proper Guild vs. Guild in World vs. World, it’s just not feasible.

I agree with the questiin here. The OP and others, are very problematic to the game and it’s community. They dishonestly claim to speak for others who they have no permission to speak for. I am part of the WvW community, and I could care less for GvG. I can appreciate why a small part of the community would enjoy a GvG designed aspect, but when you dishonestly misrepresent others to promote your desire for it, you condemn your own argument in my opinion.

I think you fail to understand the numbers involved here, They have even been making online petitions over a year ago that most were not even aware of to sign up for asking for this:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/official-gvg-setup-in-gw2/

For players to go as far to even try to petition, even a year ago, when now the numbers that do gvg are even higher than then shows there are players who greatly desire this. Although myself and others I have spoke with who would support that petition were not even aware of it existing to sign it, as many have this sentiment, just have not " organized a united front to make a formal request to Anet".

You mistake people openly discussing their desires in games among friends, as " I speak for everyone" when that is not the case, even if those friends happen to represent their very large guilds. It is how you interpret what people are saying that is the issue here, not what they are actually stating. You see, I personally would probably " sit out" of GvG Events, as I have not as much interest in that anymore myself, but the people I enjoy playing Guild Wars with have expressed their dissatisfaction with not having GVG available for them. You see, I do not even want to play GvG, I want this implemented for others who do. I think you misjudge and misunderstand what people are telling you here. I have heard this from so many, even though I personally would not even use that game mode myself.

Relaying what is being discussed among friends in the hopes that these things change so they do not discontinue playing the game is not the same as " lets try to make what I want in the game seem more important." I personally would not even use it myself, I am bringing attention to GvG because I have heard many people that are very frustrated over it currently, and wish to have it resolved for them. Attacking people bringing attention to this concern does not help resolve the issue that they may leave game over this further reducing the games population. Attacking people for having concerns in the first place is toxic to the community to begin with. That is far more problematic than people trying to prevent further game population decline.

No, it appears you misunderstand. The OP is falsely claiming to speak for the WvW community and that is dishonest and unacceptable to me.

That aside, you linked a petition site that I anyone can use 74 different emails to skew the petition in their favor. That suggest to me that you are not concerned about a level of integrity for the issue.

1 vs 1 stronghold GvG could be interesting.

Chris.3290:

Seriously, what caused this obsession?

I could ask the same exact thing about GvG, yet everyone knows the answer, same goes with Anet, is a business afterall.

lil devils x.6071:

How does their cpu currently handle wvw pops of 80 players per server on map? 40 vs 40 is far less than the wvw 80 vs 80 vs 80.

I am not seeing how having smaller teams would be more profitable for Anet. In what way would smaller esports teams be more profitable than larger ones? Simply because most esports are small scale does not mean that there is not room for much larger esports teams. That isn’t what determines whether or not it becomes popular. Hell even Wow’s 3 on 3 battles are considered unwatchable as far as esports are concerned, numbers are not the issue there, it is the game design itself.

ALSO I do not think 40 vs 40 should be the only mode, it should have dueling/ 5v5, 10v10, 20 v20 options as well.. 40 being the max.

You can compare real sports to gaming as well, and the NFL, which is extremely profitable for example, has more than 5 on 5. Focusing on numbers isn’t going to help, as many games do not cut it as an esport even with small scale pvp, that will not be the determining factor as to whether or not it is profitable. What surely ISN’T profitable however, is running off large guilds by telling them they are not welcome here.

You’re assuming every person with a bad gpu/cpu goes where the blob is, yet you still have to think for them or they will eventually come in here and demand a fix.

“Smaller teams & Focusing on numbers” that will just bring new questions.

So let’s say we get past the 1st question and ignore 40vs one, what is the current meta in the community GvG which basically has not changed that much…
GWEN, 4 classes which practically uses Mesmer as a utility class and Thief as gank..
That just bring more questions…

What happens with the other classes?

Would this require to adjust Ranger & Engineer to the GWEN meta?

Incoming class, so how its going to perfom in the current GWEN meta? (We don’t know yet)

Why is mesmer just an utility class in the GWEN meta?

Should Thief be able to run both Gank & Stack meta?

Would this create a 3rd scenario to define class balance therefore a new dev team?
More resources (Currently we have sPvP & PvE)

How much time/resources would class balance now require with a 3rd scenario in the table?
Remember what separates sPvP & PvE are “small” tweaks to skills & traits but if we add a 3rd scenario is going to take more resources, we are talking of hundreds of skills and traits here.

Of course numbers are important, they will basically tell you how many resources you will need in order to execute/run X game mode, it won’t be defining factor but sure is an important one, just like if the game mode is profitable or not.

lil devils x.6071:

there is no guarantee of success there.. at all.

There is no guarantee of success for anything, that’s why every move Anet does is a risk yet they will try analyze the market and come with the best proposal. As much as I hate LoL that’s what is selling right now, GW2 is F2P afterall, you also have to think about the big brother…. pretty sure Anet can’t do new game implementations that easily.

coglin.1867:

lil devils x.6071:

coglin.1867:

Bristingr.5034:

And what exactly has the WvW community been asking? I would like to know because it sounds like you (the OP) want a Guild vs. Guild type of thing, and last I checked, a server/world is made up of MANY guilds, some of which are spread across several worlds. You can’t do a proper Guild vs. Guild in World vs. World, it’s just not feasible.

I agree with the questiin here. The OP and others, are very problematic to the game and it’s community. They dishonestly claim to speak for others who they have no permission to speak for. I am part of the WvW community, and I could care less for GvG. I can appreciate why a small part of the community would enjoy a GvG designed aspect, but when you dishonestly misrepresent others to promote your desire for it, you condemn your own argument in my opinion.

I think you fail to understand the numbers involved here, They have even been making online petitions over a year ago that most were not even aware of to sign up for asking for this:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/official-gvg-setup-in-gw2/

For players to go as far to even try to petition, even a year ago, when now the numbers that do gvg are even higher than then shows there are players who greatly desire this. Although myself and others I have spoke with who would support that petition were not even aware of it existing to sign it, as many have this sentiment, just have not " organized a united front to make a formal request to Anet".

You mistake people openly discussing their desires in games among friends, as " I speak for everyone" when that is not the case, even if those friends happen to represent their very large guilds. It is how you interpret what people are saying that is the issue here, not what they are actually stating. You see, I personally would probably " sit out" of GvG Events, as I have not as much interest in that anymore myself, but the people I enjoy playing Guild Wars with have expressed their dissatisfaction with not having GVG available for them. You see, I do not even want to play GvG, I want this implemented for others who do. I think you misjudge and misunderstand what people are telling you here. I have heard this from so many, even though I personally would not even use that game mode myself.

Relaying what is being discussed among friends in the hopes that these things change so they do not discontinue playing the game is not the same as " lets try to make what I want in the game seem more important." I personally would not even use it myself, I am bringing attention to GvG because I have heard many people that are very frustrated over it currently, and wish to have it resolved for them. Attacking people bringing attention to this concern does not help resolve the issue that they may leave game over this further reducing the games population. Attacking people for having concerns in the first place is toxic to the community to begin with. That is far more problematic than people trying to prevent further game population decline.

No, it appears you misunderstand. The OP is falsely claiming to speak for the WvW community and that is dishonest and unacceptable to me.

That aside, you linked a petition site that I anyone can use 74 different emails to skew the petition in their favor. That suggest to me that you are not concerned about a level of integrity for the issue.

Do you even read the forums? The 3 things people keep posting all the time are: population inbalance, gvg and remove flyhacks. As the forum are the official communication with the devs what is most posted in the forums is a good sign of what the player base wants. This is common sense. What do you suggest make a referendum ?

requiem.5279:

Chris.3290:

Seriously, what caused this obsession?

I could ask the same exact thing about GvG, yet everyone knows the answer, same goes with Anet, is a business afterall.

lil devils x.6071:

How does their cpu currently handle wvw pops of 80 players per server on map? 40 vs 40 is far less than the wvw 80 vs 80 vs 80.

I am not seeing how having smaller teams would be more profitable for Anet. In what way would smaller esports teams be more profitable than larger ones? Simply because most esports are small scale does not mean that there is not room for much larger esports teams. That isn’t what determines whether or not it becomes popular. Hell even Wow’s 3 on 3 battles are considered unwatchable as far as esports are concerned, numbers are not the issue there, it is the game design itself.

ALSO I do not think 40 vs 40 should be the only mode, it should have dueling/ 5v5, 10v10, 20 v20 options as well.. 40 being the max.

You can compare real sports to gaming as well, and the NFL, which is extremely profitable for example, has more than 5 on 5. Focusing on numbers isn’t going to help, as many games do not cut it as an esport even with small scale pvp, that will not be the determining factor as to whether or not it is profitable. What surely ISN’T profitable however, is running off large guilds by telling them they are not welcome here.

You’re assuming every person with a bad gpu/cpu goes where the blob is, yet you still have to think for them or they will eventually come in here and demand a fix.

“Smaller teams & Focusing on numbers” that will just bring new questions.

So let’s say we get past the 1st question and ignore 40vs one, what is the current meta in the community GvG which basically has not changed that much…
GWEN, 4 classes which practically uses Mesmer as a utility class and Thief as gank..
That just bring more questions…

What happens with the other classes?

Would this require to adjust Ranger & Engineer to the GWEN meta?

Incoming class, so how its going to perfom in the current GWEN meta? (We don’t know yet)

Why is mesmer just an utility class in the GWEN meta?

Should Thief be able to run both Gank & Stack meta?

Would this create a 3rd scenario to define class balance therefore a new dev team?
More resources (Currently we have sPvP & PvE)

How much time/resources would class balance now require with a 3rd scenario in the table?
Remember what separates sPvP & PvE are “small” tweaks to skills & traits but if we add a 3rd scenario is going to take more resources, we are talking of hundreds of skills and traits here.

Of course numbers are important, they will basically tell you how many resources you will need in order to execute/run X game mode, it won’t be defining factor but sure is an important one, just like if the game mode is profitable or not.

lil devils x.6071:

there is no guarantee of success there.. at all.

There is no guarantee of success for anything, that’s why every move Anet does is a risk yet they will try analyze the market and come with the best proposal. As much as I hate LoL that’s what is selling right now, GW2 is F2P afterall, you also have to think about the big brother…. pretty sure Anet can’t do new game implementations that easily.

GW is not LoL, WoW is not LoL.. LoL players are not going to jump ship and come running over here.. that was the mistake many games made thinking that would ever happen.

In regards to class balances, I do not recall anyone asking for any class changes for GvG, they utilize them accordingly as it is. Why would they need to change them for this considering they already use them as is in wvw? Do they not already consider wvw when they implement the tweaks currently? The 3rd scenario ( wvw) has already been on the table and one of the biggest selling points for this game, nothing changes simply because they add GvG in that regard. Mesmers are used for portals and veils primarily and engineers are used to take out warriors, that doesn’t change simply by implementing GvG.

Currently the game has PvE PvP AND WvW modes, you left out a mode that came with the game and one of it’s biggest selling factors, pve and pvp were not what the hype was about when they were advertising this game.

Best GvG I have seen used mesmers very well portal bombing.

5v5? 5v5 GvG? Seriously? That’s what they call GvG, what’s the difference from sPvP we already have, only because these 5 people can be from the same guild?
After two and a half years of “not posting doesn’t mean we not listening” they came up with this? Obviously they didn’t hear/read a word from this forum, now we know this for sure. Ask me if im gonna buy this …….
I don’t know what to do, to laugh or cry.

lil devils x.6071:

GW is not LoL, WoW is not LoL.. LoL players are not going to jump ship and come running over here.. that was the mistake many games made thinking that would ever happen.

In regards to class balances, I do not recall anyone asking for any class changes for GvG, they utilize them accordingly as it is. Why would they need to change them for this considering they already use them as is in wvw? Do they not already consider wvw when they implement the tweaks currently? The 3rd scenario ( wvw) has already been on the table and one of the biggest selling points for this game, nothing changes simply because they add GvG in that regard. Mesmers are used for portals and veils primarily and engineers are used to take out warriors, that doesn’t change simply by implementing GvG.

“GW is not LoL”
No one is saying it is but that business model is selling, Anet/NCSOFT are going to have an eye on them, just like FFXIV keeps an eye on GW2 since GW2 is F2P and FFXIV is P2P, FFXIV is not GW2 if anything is more like WoW. You have to understand how marketing works.

“I do not recall anyone asking for any class changes for GvG”
Because GvG is a community game mode, of course you haven’t seen any demand on class balance it would be a dead cause to ask for any changes… But if they ever implement it, oficially, is going to bring those supporters of classes outside of the GWEN meta, just like stronghold will because it must include all classes, it won’t be a good image for Anet to have a game mode where only certain classes excel.

“The 3rd scenario ( wvw) has already been on the table”
No as what class balance means, it’s a 3rd element when it comes to game developing in general, but you have never seen WvW as a defining factor for class balance, WvW is only taken in consideration for PvE & sPvP balances, we only have WvW skills that are siege wise. The only real balancing they have done to WvW (PvP wise) is removing all the PvE consumables. WvW is intended as a casual PvP mode, there’s a reason why is 24/7.

lil devils x.6071:

Best GvG I have seen used mesmers very well portal bombing.

Best example of why mesmer is currently only an utility class in the GWEN meta… it’s either veil or portal.

Avit.3165:

5v5? 5v5 GvG? Seriously? That’s what they call GvG, what’s the difference from sPvP we already have, only because these 5 people can be from the same guild?
After two and a half years of “not posting doesn’t mean we not listening” they came up with this? Obviously they didn’t hear/read a word from this forum, now we know this for sure. Ask me if im gonna buy this …….
I don’t know what to do, to laugh or cry.

They never said Stronghold was going to be a response to the GvG community to begin with, the community decided to interpret it like that.

http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-stronghold/

They never mention WvW GvG, they do mention GW1 GvG nostalgia & condensed World vs World experience.

The bridge was burnt after the Sacrx incident so I wouldn’t expect much attention from Anet, it sucks, but pretty much the GvG comm blew their chances after that, it was awfully handled especially by the GvG community.

They (still) have delusions of esports grandeur so that’s why they’re taking the MOBA bandwagon.

But with balance patches every 6 months (even if they were ok patches), that’s just not going to cut it.

As for WvW-style GvG. It’s pretty clear that’s never going to happen. It’s definitely not coming before the expansion (pretty much nothing will), and if it were coming for the expansion, they’d certainly be hyping it right now. So three years from now for the next expansion, maybe? Don’t bet on it.

requiem.5279:

lil devils x.6071:

GW is not LoL, WoW is not LoL.. LoL players are not going to jump ship and come running over here.. that was the mistake many games made thinking that would ever happen.

In regards to class balances, I do not recall anyone asking for any class changes for GvG, they utilize them accordingly as it is. Why would they need to change them for this considering they already use them as is in wvw? Do they not already consider wvw when they implement the tweaks currently? The 3rd scenario ( wvw) has already been on the table and one of the biggest selling points for this game, nothing changes simply because they add GvG in that regard. Mesmers are used for portals and veils primarily and engineers are used to take out warriors, that doesn’t change simply by implementing GvG.

“GW is not LoL”
No one is saying it is but that business model is selling, Anet/NCSOFT are going to have an eye on them, just like FFXIV keeps an eye on GW2 since GW2 is F2P and FFXIV is P2P, FFXIV is not GW2 if anything is more like WoW. You have to understand how marketing works.

“I do not recall anyone asking for any class changes for GvG”
Because GvG is a community game mode, of course you haven’t seen any demand on class balance it would be a dead cause to ask for any changes… But if they ever implement it, oficially, is going to bring those supporters of classes outside of the GWEN meta, just like stronghold will because it must include all classes, it won’t be a good image for Anet to have a game mode where only certain classes excel.

“The 3rd scenario ( wvw) has already been on the table”
No as what class balance means, it’s a 3rd element when it comes to game developing in general, but you have never seen WvW as a defining factor for class balance, WvW is only taken in consideration for PvE & sPvP balances, we only have WvW skills that are siege wise. The only real balancing they have done to WvW (PvP wise) is removing all the PvE consumables. WvW is intended as a casual PvP mode, there’s a reason why is 24/7.

lil devils x.6071:

Best GvG I have seen used mesmers very well portal bombing.

Best example of why mesmer is currently only an utility class in the GWEN meta… it’s either veil or portal.

Avit.3165:

5v5? 5v5 GvG? Seriously? That’s what they call GvG, what’s the difference from sPvP we already have, only because these 5 people can be from the same guild?
After two and a half years of “not posting doesn’t mean we not listening” they came up with this? Obviously they didn’t hear/read a word from this forum, now we know this for sure. Ask me if im gonna buy this …….
I don’t know what to do, to laugh or cry.

They never said Stronghold was going to be a response to the GvG community to begin with, the community decided to interpret it like that.

http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-stronghold/

They never mention WvW GvG, they do mention GW1 GvG nostalgia & condensed World vs World experience.

The bridge was burnt after the Sacrx incident so I wouldn’t expect much attention from Anet, it sucks, but pretty much the GvG comm blew their chances after that, it was awfully handled especially by the GvG community.

Handled by the GvG community? It is Anet that should " handle" it, not punish it’s players for the actions of a few. That is absurd. " burn bridges" with it’s players? YIKES. I certainly hope they do not view it that way, that is a surefire way to make a game die if that is the stance they take on trying to best gage it’s communities needs to keep the game alive for many years to come. That is the kind of talk that kills games, not makes them legend.

ANet doesn’t know what the WvW community wants because they didn’t bother listening to the WvW community when we tried to bring it up. They effectively told us to shut up and wait for the official, and now defunct, GvG CDI.

ANets mistake (or the players for inferring?) was ever relating Stronghold to GvG in the first place. It’s just another sPvP game mode along the same lines of team deathmatch in Courtyard. It’s anets next feeble attempt to make GW2 relavant as an eSport and try and fit into the MOBA scene.

Perhaps ANet will figure out one day how great WvW could have been and how GW2 could have actually been genre defining. Alas, it will be another in a long line of failed esport titles.

lil devils x.6071:

Handled by the GvG community? It is Anet that should " handle" it, not punish it’s players for the actions of a few. That is absurd. " burn bridges" with it’s players? YIKES. I certainly hope they do not view it that way, that is a surefire way to make a game die if that is the stance they take on trying to best gage it’s communities needs to keep the game alive for many years to come. That is the kind of talk that kills games, not makes them legend.

The WvW GvG community is such a small part of the overall community and a large portion of those willing to leave if a gametype catered to them have already left.

This game already has 2 great PvP modes that are available and adding a 3rd that is fundamentally different and specifically aimed at a smaller subset of the community was just not in the cards.

Has most of sPvP been tailored around their attempts to make it a viable esport. You bet but the game mode itself is still fun for non hardcores who like level playing field pvp, something rarely offer in MMOs.

WvW is more about mass scale combat and somewhat open world PvP. The only thing that makes WvW hardcore is the people/guilds on the server making it that way.

gaspara.4079:

lil devils x.6071:

Handled by the GvG community? It is Anet that should " handle" it, not punish it’s players for the actions of a few. That is absurd. " burn bridges" with it’s players? YIKES. I certainly hope they do not view it that way, that is a surefire way to make a game die if that is the stance they take on trying to best gage it’s communities needs to keep the game alive for many years to come. That is the kind of talk that kills games, not makes them legend.

The WvW GvG community is such a small part of the overall community and a large portion of those willing to leave if a gametype catered to them have already left.

This game already has 2 great PvP modes that are available and adding a 3rd that is fundamentally different and specifically aimed at a smaller subset of the community was just not in the cards.

Has most of sPvP been tailored around their attempts to make it a viable esport. You bet but the game mode itself is still fun for non hardcores who like level playing field pvp, something rarely offer in MMOs.

WvW is more about mass scale combat and somewhat open world PvP. The only thing that makes WvW hardcore is the people/guilds on the server making it that way.

This game already has THREE, NOT TWO game modes. Why do you leave out the most heavily advertised portion of the game? WvW was the primary selling point for this game, and the most heavily advertised. If they lose the WvW players from the game, they lose their gravy train, as they are the ones who pay for everything in game with credit cards instead of farming it. PvP doesn’t need weapons, armor, food, siege, or to pay for upgrades, Pvp doesn’t make them any money. You make $$ in both pvp and PvE, you spend it in wvw.

It is in wvw where people pay for entire guilds of 500 people to transfer servers with credit cards. It is in wvw where they pay players gold to sit in towers. It is wvw that players run up the credit card bills. No other game modes are as profitable as WvW, yet you do not even bother to mention it. Sure, lets send all the money to other games and see how well that works out financially while you chase the unattainable esport that other mmorpgs with much more resources already failed at it. DID they not pay attention to why WoW didn’t cut it as an esport? LOL

lil devils x.6071:

Handled by the GvG community? It is Anet that should " handle" it, not punish it’s players for the actions of a few. That is absurd. " burn bridges" with it’s players? YIKES. I certainly hope they do not view it that way, that is a surefire way to make a game die if that is the stance they take on trying to best gage it’s communities needs to keep the game alive for many years to come. That is the kind of talk that kills games, not makes them legend.

I wouldn’t label it as “punishment” more like a bad experience for Anet, that happened when you give too much information & power to certain branches of the gamer community, IMO they are ignoring not punishing to avoid problems, also take in consideration how every approach by the gvg community is terrible if anything that the Sacrx experience left is the need to insult and degrade Anet in every possible way because they didn’t get what they asked for.

Now what we are currently seeing is that Ranger and Engineer will have weapons that could work with the GWEN meta, so who knows maybe Anet is giving baby steps to have a better setup for what we know as GvG in GW2, we will see.

lil devils x.6071:

This game already has THREE, NOT TWO game modes. Why do you leave out the most heavily advertised portion of the game? WvW was the primary selling point for this game, and the most heavily advertised. If they lose the WvW players from the game, they lose their gravy train, as they are the ones who pay for everything in game with credit cards instead of farming it. PvP doesn’t need weapons, armor, food, siege, or to pay for upgrades, Pvp doesn’t make them any money. You make $$ in both pvp and PvE, you spend it in wvw.

It is in wvw where people pay for entire guilds of 500 people to transfer servers with credit cards. It is in wvw where they pay players gold to sit in towers. It is wvw that players run up the credit card bills. No other game modes are as profitable as WvW, yet you do not even bother to mention it. Sure, lets send all the money to other games and see how well that works out financially while you chase the unattainable esport that other mmorpgs with much more resources already failed at it. DID they not pay attention to why WoW didn’t cut it as an esport? LOL

WvW never been taken as a serious PvP mode because it was never intended to be that, just take in consideration all the handicap presented in it.

1.- Money
2.- Ascended Armor
3.- Food
4.- Utility items
4.- WvW Buffs (Not bloodlust)
5.- Bloodlust
6.- Gem Consumables
7.- Uplevels
8.- Siege
9.- Open World
10.- PvE format Skills
11.- Guard Buffs

We don’t have a controlled enviroment like any PvP mode would demand.

About how much money I would take it with a grain of salt, because everyone uses the gem store, no matter what game you’re playing, they add cool stuff for all the branches of GW2, ppters/roamers/gvgers/duelers all are involved in WvW not only GvGers money and transfers…. yes and no it has become a common practice for all server to have donation pool in order to help guilds transfer (Talking about NA T1-T2) to fill in the coverage as much as possible. aka buying guilds.

And by using those arguments you’re contradicting yourself, if they give to GvG their own game mode, transfers are not going to be particularly necessary.

requiem.5279:

lil devils x.6071:

Handled by the GvG community? It is Anet that should " handle" it, not punish it’s players for the actions of a few. That is absurd. " burn bridges" with it’s players? YIKES. I certainly hope they do not view it that way, that is a surefire way to make a game die if that is the stance they take on trying to best gage it’s communities needs to keep the game alive for many years to come. That is the kind of talk that kills games, not makes them legend.

I wouldn’t label it as “punishment” more like a bad experience for Anet, that happened when you give too much information & power to certain branches of the gamer community, IMO they are ignoring not punishing to avoid problems, also take in consideration how every approach by the gvg community is terrible if anything that the Sacrx experience left is the need to insult and degrade Anet in every possible way because they didn’t get what they asked for.

Now what we are currently seeing is that Ranger and Engineer will have weapons that could work with the GWEN meta, so who knows maybe Anet is giving baby steps to have a better setup for what we know as GvG in GW2, we will see.

lil devils x.6071:

This game already has THREE, NOT TWO game modes. Why do you leave out the most heavily advertised portion of the game? WvW was the primary selling point for this game, and the most heavily advertised. If they lose the WvW players from the game, they lose their gravy train, as they are the ones who pay for everything in game with credit cards instead of farming it. PvP doesn’t need weapons, armor, food, siege, or to pay for upgrades, Pvp doesn’t make them any money. You make $$ in both pvp and PvE, you spend it in wvw.

It is in wvw where people pay for entire guilds of 500 people to transfer servers with credit cards. It is in wvw where they pay players gold to sit in towers. It is wvw that players run up the credit card bills. No other game modes are as profitable as WvW, yet you do not even bother to mention it. Sure, lets send all the money to other games and see how well that works out financially while you chase the unattainable esport that other mmorpgs with much more resources already failed at it. DID they not pay attention to why WoW didn’t cut it as an esport? LOL

WvW never been taken as a serious PvP mode because it was never intended to be that, just take in consideration all the handicap presented in it.

1.- Money
2.- Ascended Armor
3.- Food
4.- Utility items
4.- WvW Buffs (Not bloodlust)
5.- Bloodlust
6.- Gem Consumables
7.- Uplevels
8.- Siege
9.- Open World
10.- PvE format Skills
11.- Guard Buffs

We don’t have a controlled enviroment like any PvP mode would demand.

About how much money I would take it with a grain of salt, because everyone uses the gem store, no matter what game you’re playing, they add cool stuff for all the branches of GW2 and transfers…. yes and no it has become a common practice for all server to have donation pool in order to help guilds transfer (Talking about NA T1-T2) to fill in the coverage as much as possible. aka buying guilds.

Most of the pvp environments from games past were not " controlled environments" and yet they were the only pvp in games and players still flocked to them. Just look at games that charged $15 a month for players to have a non controlled pvp game and you will see that is not what makes it " serious pvp" or not. “controlled” does not necessarily equate to serious pvp. That is separate. DAoC WvWvW was it’s main attraction as well, and Anet heavily advertised they were basing Gw2 on DAoC prior to release. They made sure everyone knew they were basing this on DAoC, thus drawing a great deal of players from DAoC and Warhammer’s player base that just came here for that as well.

Not everyone accepts server $ to transfer, they pay for their own guild to transfer on their own with credit cards as they want to do things on their own terms and not be owned. We have transferred multiple times not accepting server cash, but paid our own way with credit cards. It is far more common for guild to pay their own way, or at least pay for the majority than to accept the server funds. Wvw Players buy everything else from the gem store PLUS everything needed for wvw. They have legendaries and ascended too, but do not have the time to farm while playing wvw thus they spend more real cash to get them …

ALSO: Transfers are not the only thing they spend money on for wvw, they also buy influence to run pvt buffs on keeps all week, siege, upgrades for keeps and towers and gold to players to sit in towers and refresh siege. in addition the the best food weapons and armor in game.

xDudisx.5914:

Do you even read the forums? The 3 things people keep posting all the time are: population inbalance, gvg and remove flyhacks. As the forum are the official communication with the devs what is most posted in the forums is a good sign of what the player base wants. This is common sense. What do you suggest make a referendum ?

Yes, I read the forums, thanks for asking. What I see is a very few, select posters, making threads or cross posting on various threads, over and over again. Out of the millions of people that bought this game, I bet you can’t link 200 distinct posters who specifically ask for GvG.

And that is just one out of twenty something sub forums. I am rather certain GvG isn’t even remotely one of the top request made by posters.

lil devils x.6071:

Most of the pvp environments from games past were not " controlled environments" and yet they were the only pvp in games and players still flocked to them. Just look at games that charged $15 a month for players to have a non controlled pvp game and you will see that is not what makes it " serious pvp" or not. “controlled” does not necessarily equate to serious pvp. That is separate. DAoC WvWvW was it’s main attraction as well, and Anet heavily advertised they were basing Gw2 on DAoC prior to release. They made sure everyone knew they were basing this on DAoC, thus drawing a great deal of players from DAoC and Warhammer’s player base that just came here for that as well.

Sure there’s no such thing a perfect game mode, the balance/handicap in every game is always going to be subjective, same thing happens with any other type of games, RTS, Arcade, MOBA, etc yet you see the need to have a controlled enviroment in every game whos intentions are to promote a decent pvp mode but this was out of consideration when they announced that WvW was going to be a 24/7 game mode that is just taking it out of proportions of what we could consider a controlled enviroment.

Now base and replica are two different words, the exact same thing is happening with Stronghold which is based in GW1 GvG but it doesn’t mean that is going to be same game mode.

lil devils x.6071:

They have legendaries and ascended too, but do not have the time to farm while playing wvw thus they spend more real cash to get them …

This is in your own context thought, because I do spend 98% of the time in WvW and I was able to craft two legendaries so far by only playing TP, it takes time but it’s possible, pretty sure PvErs would also spend a few bucks to boost their legendary or ascended armor crusade a little, now no one is denying that WvW is an important game mode but some tend to interpret as serious PvP mode when it isn’t.

GW2 is intended as a casual MMO to begin with.

lil devils x.6071:

ALSO: Transfers are not the only thing they spend money on for wvw, they also buy influence to run pvt buffs on keeps all week, siege, upgrades for keeps and towers and gold to players to sit in towers and refresh siege. in addition the the best food weapons and armor in game.

Just because certain groups decide to take WvW “responsability” to a whole new level by spending lots of real money or sit in a tower 12hrs it doesn’t mean it will be a profitable market, you are basically trying to abuse the addiction of a few.

requiem.5279:

lil devils x.6071:

Most of the pvp environments from games past were not " controlled environments" and yet they were the only pvp in games and players still flocked to them. Just look at games that charged $15 a month for players to have a non controlled pvp game and you will see that is not what makes it " serious pvp" or not. “controlled” does not necessarily equate to serious pvp. That is separate. DAoC WvWvW was it’s main attraction as well, and Anet heavily advertised they were basing Gw2 on DAoC prior to release. They made sure everyone knew they were basing this on DAoC, thus drawing a great deal of players from DAoC and Warhammer’s player base that just came here for that as well.

Sure there’s no such thing a perfect game mode, the balance/handicap in every game is always going to be subjective, same thing happens with any other type of games, RTS, Arcade, MOBA, etc yet you see the need to have a controlled enviroment in every game whos intentions are to promote a decent pvp mode but this was out of consideration when they announced that WvW was going to be a 24/7 game mode that is just taking it out of proportions of what we could consider a controlled enviroment.

Now base and replica are two different words, the exact same thing is happening with Stronghold which is based in GW1 GvG but it doesn’t mean that is going to be same game mode.

lil devils x.6071:

They have legendaries and ascended too, but do not have the time to farm while playing wvw thus they spend more real cash to get them …

This is in your own context thought, because I do spend 98% of the time in WvW and I was able to craft two legendaries so far by only playing TP, it takes time but it’s possible, pretty sure PvErs would also spend a few bucks to boost their legendary or ascended armor crusade a little, now no one is denying that WvW is an important game mode but some tend to interpret as serious PvP mode when it isn’t.

GW2 is intended as a casual MMO to begin with.

lil devils x.6071:

ALSO: Transfers are not the only thing they spend money on for wvw, they also buy influence to run pvt buffs on keeps all week, siege, upgrades for keeps and towers and gold to players to sit in towers and refresh siege. in addition the the best food weapons and armor in game.

Just because certain groups decide to take WvW “responsability” to a whole new level by spending lots of real money or sit in a tower 12hrs it doesn’t mean it will be a profitable market, you are basically trying to abuse the addiction of a few.

I am speaking from personal experience in regards to money spent. I couldn’t be bothered to play TP, or farm, for example, It is just easier to get what I want when I want. If it isn;t fun I am not going to do it, and I do not find PVE fun, I find it repulsive tbh. IF I had to go pve to play this I would not be here. " addiction of a few" No, I think it is just different levels of competitiveness, that does not mean they are addicted. Some play to win, not about addiction. Those that grind/farm are more addicted than those that drop cash on wvw. THose that have the money to spend don’t even have to play that much to win, and have more toys in game as well. Many just veiw their game as another asset to take care of like paying people to do your landscaping.. LOL

If GW2 is meant to be a causal MMO, why are they focusing on MOBA? That is the opposite of casual.

lil devils x.6071:

I am speaking from personal experience in regards to money spent. I couldn’t be bothered to play TP, or farm, for example, It is just easier to get what I want when I want. If it isn;t fun I am not going to do it, and I do not find PVE fun, I find it repulsive tbh. IF I had to go pve to play this I would not be here. " addiction of a few" No, I think it is just different levels of competitiveness, that does not mean they are addicted. Some play to win, not about addiction. Those that grind/farm are more addicted than those that drop cash on wvw. THose that have the money to spend don’t even have to play that much to win, and have more toys in game as well. Many just veiw their game as another asset to take care of like paying people to do your landscaping.. LOL

Winning can be an addiction too, keep that in mind, not labeling everyone who does that as an addict but it happens and I’m pretty sure you have found some “dedicated” players who takes things to a new level when it comes to gaming.

lil devils x.6071:

If GW2 is meant to be a causal MMO, why are they focusing on MOBA? That is the opposite of casual.

That is a whole new topic because we can’t tell what they are doing, like I said before, all classes are getting new weapons variables what we could be seeing are baby steps from Anet on their view of things, an expansion was out of question a few months ago, but here we are.

But the bridge between the WvW/GvG community and Anet is pretty much dead, we just don’t know how to ask for things…

requiem.5279:

lil devils x.6071:

requiem.5279:

lil devils x.6071:

Most of the pvp environments from games past were not " controlled environments" and yet they were the only pvp in games and players still flocked to them. Just look at games that charged $15 a month for players to have a non controlled pvp game and you will see that is not what makes it " serious pvp" or not. “controlled” does not necessarily equate to serious pvp. That is separate. DAoC WvWvW was it’s main attraction as well, and Anet heavily advertised they were basing Gw2 on DAoC prior to release. They made sure everyone knew they were basing this on DAoC, thus drawing a great deal of players from DAoC and Warhammer’s player base that just came here for that as well.

Sure there’s no such thing a perfect game mode, the balance/handicap in every game is always going to be subjective, same thing happens with any other type of games, RTS, Arcade, MOBA, etc yet you see the need to have a controlled enviroment in every game whos intentions are to promote a decent pvp mode but this was out of consideration when they announced that WvW was going to be a 24/7 game mode that is just taking it out of proportions of what we could consider a controlled enviroment.

Now base and replica are two different words, the exact same thing is happening with Stronghold which is based in GW1 GvG but it doesn’t mean that is going to be same game mode.

lil devils x.6071:

They have legendaries and ascended too, but do not have the time to farm while playing wvw thus they spend more real cash to get them …

This is in your own context thought, because I do spend 98% of the time in WvW and I was able to craft two legendaries so far by only playing TP, it takes time but it’s possible, pretty sure PvErs would also spend a few bucks to boost their legendary or ascended armor crusade a little, now no one is denying that WvW is an important game mode but some tend to interpret as serious PvP mode when it isn’t.

GW2 is intended as a casual MMO to begin with.

lil devils x.6071:

ALSO: Transfers are not the only thing they spend money on for wvw, they also buy influence to run pvt buffs on keeps all week, siege, upgrades for keeps and towers and gold to players to sit in towers and refresh siege. in addition the the best food weapons and armor in game.

Just because certain groups decide to take WvW “responsability” to a whole new level by spending lots of real money or sit in a tower 12hrs it doesn’t mean it will be a profitable market, you are basically trying to abuse the addiction of a few.

I am speaking from personal experience in regards to money spent. I couldn’t be bothered to play TP, or farm, for example, It is just easier to get what I want when I want. If it isn;t fun I am not going to do it, and I do not find PVE fun, I find it repulsive tbh. IF I had to go pve to play this I would not be here. " addiction of a few" No, I think it is just different levels of competitiveness, that does not mean they are addicted. Some play to win, not about addiction. Those that grind/farm are more addicted than those that drop cash on wvw. THose that have the money to spend don’t even have to play that much to win, and have more toys in game as well. Many just veiw their game as another asset to take care of like paying people to do your landscaping.. LOL

If GW2 is meant to be a causal MMO, why are they focusing on MOBA? That is the opposite of casual.

Winning can be an addiction too, keep that in mind, not labeling everyone who does that as an addict but it happens and I’m pretty sure you have found some “dedicated” players who takes things to a new level when it comes to gaming.

lil devils x.6071:

If GW2 is meant to be a causal MMO, why are they focusing on MOBA? That is the opposite of casual.

That is a whole new topic because we can’t tell what they are doing, like I said before, all classes are getting new weapons variables what we could be seeing are baby steps from Anet on their view of things, an expansion was out of question a few months ago, but here we are.

But the bridge between the WvW/GvG community and Anet is pretty much dead, we just don’t know how to ask for things…

Hmmm,.. maybe that petition idea those guys last year had wasn’t a bad idea. They just fumbled on the implementation. 1) it was a bad petition 2) no one knew about it. Now if they get thousands of players asking for something in petition form.. maybe they will take it seriously. XD

But that takes effort.. See that is the wvw players problem. If it is not fun why do it?

Hmm who can we pay to draw up a petition with a credit card?
Is that how you ask for things?

lil devils x.6071:

Hmmm,.. maybe that petition idea those guys last year had wasn’t a bad idea. They just fumbled on the implementation. 1) it was a bad petition 2) no one knew about it. Now if they get thousands of players asking for something in petition form.. maybe they will take it seriously. XD

But that takes effort.. See that is the wvw players problem. If it is not fun why do it?

Hmm who can we pay to draw up a petition with a credit card?
Is that how you ask for things?

Of course it wasn’t a bad idea but they will see it in a cold/business way and I’m pretty sure things would have been different if all the toxicity that suddenly appeared didn’t even exist to begin with.

Imagine If tell to my boss in the morning “f*** you” then I write him a letter asking him for pemissions to have a day off the next week…. That’s how I see it, Anet saw the GvG comm as one entity and not individuals and sadly that legacy still persist among those GvGers who despise Anet, but I’m 100% certain that there are GvGers out there who have tried to ask for things in a civil way, sadly things were ruined pretty fast.

" The action takes place on two lanes – one attacking and one defending. To push an offensive lane, a team must gather supply from a central depot and spend it on NPC characters. Meanwhile, in the other lane, the opposing team will be sending NPCs of their own."

moba style… i lold, another thing to avoid in gw2.
Zerkers playground.

I guess I don’t get the crying about thinking this is MOBA. Stronghold sounds to me a lot like GW1 Fort Aspenwood, just from what descriptions I’ve read about it (never played it myself). That predates the MOBAs.

Ok, i don’t care about PvE or sPvP, and i could care less for LW, i play only WvW.
WvW only gonna get one new map, added to the old 3 BLs + EBG, and the whole “HYPE GvG is finally coming” was one big misunderstanding, so we are screwed once again?
As usual we get less then any other GW2 game mode.
So, Anet, please explain to me why do i have to spend my money for your expansion, what i get from it as a WvW player?

Chaba.5410:

I guess I don’t get the crying about thinking this is MOBA. Stronghold sounds to me a lot like GW1 Fort Aspenwood, just from what descriptions I’ve read about it (never played it myself). That predates the MOBAs.

FA had different classes with diferent mechanics cant(hard to) compare, on GW2 is 5 dps players.

Avit.3165:

Ok, i don’t care about PvE or sPvP, and i could care less for LW, i play only WvW.
WvW only gonna get one new map, added to the old 3 BLs + EBG, and the whole “HYPE GvG is finally coming” was one big misunderstanding, so we are screwed once again?
As usual we get less then any other GW2 game mode.
So, Anet, please explain to me why do i have to spend my money for your expansion, what i get from it as a WvW player?

Masteries….(lol)

So ‘gvg’ stronghold turns out to be pve type spvp with NPC’s and an objective, nothing at all to do with guilds (unless a team happens to come from the same guild).

wvw will get one new map that will feature lots of cliffs (aka eotm mark 2), and HoT will be one massive JP so you have to have twitch reflexes to fly between cliffs or die.

I’ll remain hopeful that one day someone at Anet will wake up and realise that wvw could really be great if they spend money on it…or just release the source code and we’ll crowd fund 20 new maps and a gvg mode :-)