Guild Wars 2

Until we can see a new system for the matching in this game? I mean it took you guys/gals 2 years to add 3 colors, I am worried at how long it will take to actually add something useful to the game.

This is not WvW. This is just map completion now. Seasons have done nothing to this either. This started to happen well before.

THIS…IS..NOT..FUUN. Get it through your head Anet lol seriously. Why are you ignoring this so adamantly. And no, saying “We are excited (Insert flawed addition here)” 50 times won’t make any difference.

TL/DR Chop Chop Anet, you have had nearly 3 years to fix,repair and add content of long term success. Patience is wearing thin from your remaining supporters

Curby.4897:

Until we can see a new system for the matching in this game? I mean it took you guys/gals 2 years to add 3 colors, I am worried at how long it will take to actually add something useful to the game.

This is not WvW. This is just map completion now. Seasons have done nothing to this either. This started to happen well before.

THIS…IS..NOT..FUUN. Get it through your head Anet lol seriously. Why are you ignoring this so adamantly. And no, saying “We are excited (Insert flawed addition here)” 50 times won’t make any difference.

TL/DR Chop Chop Anet, you have had nearly 3 years to fix,repair and add content of long term success. Patience is wearing thin from your remaining supporters

And I though my server wasn’t good at WvW :P
But yeah, it does feel like we keep butting our heads against the same servers (who keep rolling over us) again and again. Of course there is still some competition on my server but it’s not really the riveting back and forth that it could be. Not sure if a new match making algorithm will solve that though.

It’s hard to fix, imo.
They need to rework the complete point system and this is something that’s not easy to do I can imagine.

And how would you suggest they fix it?
If it is so easy you would have a couple of examples on how to fix it, right?

They actually DID change the match-up at least once after release, and yet the issue still seems to exist, so I would love to hear your solution for it.
As long as people are not forced to join certain servers or forced to WvW, there can never really be complete balance.

You also seem to have rather little knowledge of WvW when you claim that 3 colors (I am assuming you are talking about Commander Tags) is not useful.
It is actually very useful for organized WvW-play.

lordkrall.7241:

It is actually very useful for organized WvW-play.

How is it actually useful?

kokiman.2364:

lordkrall.7241:

It is actually very useful for organized WvW-play.

How is it actually useful?

For example: One color for attack, one for defense, one for roam, or guild activities, or whatsoever

kokiman.2364:

How is it actually useful?

“Only guild X follow Yellow tag!”
“Pugs follow Blue tag!”
“Camp-flippers follow Red tag!”

Sure people will still do a bit what they want. But it is quite a bit easier than having every commander having the same color.

The only thing they could do about the maps without spreading some of the less populated worlds too thin, is to make the 3 border maps different from one another.

Would that be good enough?
Because adding more than the 4, technically 5, maps that they have and that’s a hell of a lot of ground to cover and defend for some worlds.

Make thread to vent/complain
Provides no solution or idea to solve problem
Expects anet to come up with solution
Yea, good plan……

lordkrall.7241:

kokiman.2364:

How is it actually useful?

“Only guild X follow Yellow tag!”
“Pugs follow Blue tag!”
“Camp-flippers follow Red tag!”

Sure people will still do a bit what they want. But it is quite a bit easier than having every commander having the same color.

So basically what the squad function already provides
“join Squad X for x”

“join Squad Y for y”

kokiman.2364:

So basically what the squad function already provides
“join Squad X for x”

“join Squad Y for y”

Except for the fact that if you join a squad you can no longer see the position of other squads. Squads also have a limited number of spots, and getting people to join the right squad would still be much simpler when the squads have different colors as opposed to looking exactly the same.

Pugs usually don’t join squads anyway for that matter, and as such having color coded commanders would make it quite a bit simpler for them to join the right group as well.

lordkrall.7241:

And how would you suggest they fix it?
If it is so easy you would have a couple of examples on how to fix it, right?

• Balance the manpower of teams (server): https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Proposal-Enforced-Player-Balance
• Shutdown (freeze) maps when there aren’t enough player in a match to play on all these maps
• Nerf coverage, such that the incentive to decide a match by “Buring down their Houses while they are sleeping” is reduced. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Nerf-the-domination-of-Coverage
• Do not make matches 24/7, but, e.g. make time-sliced matches https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Nerf-the-domination-of-Coverage/3462970 (point 4)
• Reduce the map-capacity, and by that increase the man-power balance for lower populated worlds
• …

The forum is full of proposals, just nothing is changed in the game.

Anyone trying to make out like colored commander tags are seriously relevant content are blatantly trolling you or just LordANETKrall.

2yrs to add color selection to tags, and they still almost got it wrong with the 300g thing. And you are absolutely right the squad system is essentially the same mechanic minus the colors.

Back to the OP, the problem with the matchmaking system is that the glicko does not adjust fast enough. When a server falls/implodes/crumbles/tanks/etc, it takes way to long to lose that rating. In those weeks that follow, the server takes even more of a hit/damage to their pugbase because no one wants to log in to a map that looks like the one posted.

Remember it is not just bad for the outmanned server, it sucks for the overpopulated server too, boring is bad in games, and this game has a lot of it on NA servers right now.

lordkrall.7241:

And how would you suggest they fix it?
If it is so easy you would have a couple of examples on how to fix it, right?

As others have mentioned there have been plenty of examples of how to fix it. But Anet is not interested.

WvW is an afterthought. Something for the devs to work on in between LS and Gem Shop items.

op I suggest you do something different – as in non-GW2 – until Mag falls to its proper place. It’s not going to change. Anet is not going to do anything.

But for the love of the gods don’t buy Gems to reward Anets bad behavior.

The worst part about falling is that you can’t even do it properly because as the gap widens between the falling server in a tier and the other 2, the rate of rating loss also slows….

There still a blue camp on FA BL…

Jeknar.6184:

There still a blue camp on FA BL…

That’s only to be farm dollies, till something else can be done

dollie wanna cracker? sorry guys, guess I better eat lunch …

Anet can’t fix the match ups without reworking wvw teams into either merged wvw servers or factions. There just isn’t enough equality between the serves to allow a wide range of match ups

Its the communities fault for the imbalance in WvW. All this stacking is caused by the players.

Funneling down the amount of match ups in to campaigns with time duration would be a nice fix.

take a look at the change ESO made

fewer servers would also fix the OCX / SEA gaming experience. Most Late night players went to tier 1 & 2 due to lack of player base.

Finally, Bigger and new maps. Tired of the copy/past BLs…

how about using the season 2 Swiss-style as the new match making system ? make every server begins with 0 point, and proceed the subsequent match up just like season 2, making reference to glicko rating point to separate servers on same swiss style point.

of course, few weeks after the first match up will be in havoc, but it will settle down after 3 or 4 weeks. and, reset the swiss style point every 6 months. i believe we will get nice variation of match ups.

The current match making system is good, the teams are the problem.

Swiss-style is for short tournaments where you have more teams than rounds. As you may remember from last season, it only leads to winner up looser down in the middle tier(s) and stagnation at top and bottom.

The problem are the teams. Yes the imbalances are caused by player movements, but it’s a game-design failure to
A) forget to add a corrective to counter the natural tendency of people to concentrate at the winner side.
B) increasing the natural tendency by season rewards.

We had a small corrective at the beginning: the queue, but after this went away with EotM, the existing problems increased a lot.

We need a new corrective that is better than queues (it only balanced the prime time not the off time.) and we need either less teams or smaller match-capacity (probably best both combined), as currently 90% of the matches use only 10-30% of the capacity (300 per side), 80% of the time (3 of 24h).

It would need 10 times as many people as we have to fill up all the matches we have.

well, if that’s the case the only way to balance most match up is by forcing people to destack i.e. by lowering the map cap per server by half. this is the only solution ANET hasn’t tried so far. lowering map cap per server will introduce queue. those that cannot get into WvW have choice either go to EotM, or destack.

of course ANET will have to compensate this with few weeks of free transfer to accommodate the players transferring.

guild should not have problem transferring after Sept update because the upgrades will be global.

There are many possible correctives:
- restrictions like move or stay in queue
- incentives like higher rewards where people are missing, lower rewards where are to many people. (The failure of season rewards, is that it is the opposite, more rewards where are already to many people)

There are also several ways to remove capacity. Demand isn’t equal all around the clock, prime time has a higher demand than off time (that’s why they are called that way).
- fewer teams
- a general reduction of map-capacity would also help to decrease lags.
- split prime and off time into time-slices, and have more matches at prime-time than at off time (as in EotM)
- dynamically adapt the number of maps to the number of players (all 4 at prime, only 1 in the emptiest off time)
- fewer days of the week for competition, e.g. only weekends for competition under the week only training ground.
- …

Deli.1302:

Make thread to vent/complain
Provides no solution or idea to solve problem
Expects anet to come up with solution
Yea, good plan……

Well, actually is arenanet work. OP just point to a very real problem.

Deli.1302:

Make thread to vent/complain
Provides no solution or idea to solve problem
Expects anet to come up with solution
Yea, good plan……

Wow! A person who defends the WvW dev team. Congrats. I bet you think that 2 years to add some extra commander colors is fast development.

In reference to the ones trying to justify this.

Don’t try to defend this crap, it is killing servers. FA crumbled a while ago cus of it. HoD , SoR, Crystal Desert. The list goes on. Fa recovered as did some others but the point is simple. The match making in this game is broken. If it has one at all.

I expect a “professional” to know what they are doing to fix a problem but it seems like they couldn’t give a crap about it. The CDI is a smoke and mirrors thing, it shows from the last feature patch when nothing from the WvW suggestions made it to it. Which also says that if they truly gave a crap about the game in any real way, they wouldn’t need the CDI. They would just skim and pick up ideas here and there.

Anet is on the track of failure because of the rookie mistake of thinking in the short term, vs the long term. It is a mistake a lot of new people into the business make because it looks great at first, until you see how it is starting to fail in the longer run, and you start to panic and make more of the product to try and keep up. You end up on a treadmill of trying to pump out content and will eventually run yourself dry.

Perfect example is the CoD and Battlefield franchise. Think short term and yer just shooting yourself in the foot.

Anet has to notice that if they truly want to have a popular game with a really long lifespan they need to start adding in content to EVERY game mode. ignoring certain things is only going to hurt you in the long run.

I could keep going but I am sure that I have dangled enough fan-boy bait already so I will just sit back and watch the fireworks.

TL/DR, don’t make a stupid comment trying to defend a dead end thinking. Instead Anet you need to think longterm, you will always succeed doing that, ALWAYS. The excuse of " We are working hard" is not going to help at all anymore. You have run out of time, time to pay up (so to speak). What have you been working on all these years for WvW?

I can count …. 2 matchups I can remember, that didn’t go south into lopsided-ville in 2 days or less. 2 matchups out of all the WvW I ever did that was riveting for more than a weekend and “mattered”.

And I know why. It’s the same reason nothing we do in PvE matters either. It’s a themepark where player activity is only meant to guide an outcome for an hour at best. Every single thing is designed to be incredibly short lived …. not take a whole week to still be decided. And they don’t seem to think this is the core problem. Maybe it was never on their list of problems to begin with, hence why nothing’s changed in either game mode….

Since release new OCX players have heard that SoS is the unofficial OCX server and that they should play on it, and then SoS players come around and talk about how “they only have two OCX guilds” and that they aren’t even that stacked.

Sorry but if you play WvW in OCX often and are still on SoS you are part of the problem. I’m not saying you don’t have a reason for being a part of the problem (PvE guild, friends on SoS etc), but you definitely are a part of it.

In addition, people like to take the path of least resistance so they transfer to SoS because they can kitten around in the other time zones and still win every week cause they know SoS will tick 600+ every night anyway; for a good example look at when all of EB NA moved to SoS.

NA T2 is a kittenhole akin to old T5 because of SoS, most of the other tiers aren’t at all the same and see much more change in match ups and closer games.

There are no plans to change WvW at all!

Confirmation: 6minute in, straight from the mouth of the D-man himself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyWxsJU4InM&t=6m04s

Warning: Watching this video may make you leave GW2 earlier than you were expectin!

Yeah the video is depressing.

Took the community more than half year to convice the wvw-team that match making had a design mistake, problem got recognized dec. 2012, here a summary of may 2013: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/matchups/T1-EU-24-05-2013-Elona-Vizunah-Jade-Sea/2126487

And looking at the video, they still seem to believe that WvW has no balance problem, and that their making of seasons is a good thing for the healthyness of WvW.

Yeah, I left WvW during the last season, only play EotM now. You should all do the same, such that they will finally notice the need for a change.

And Hey: you can fight in EotM, you just have to do it, and you can be in TS you just have to do it. Would have the additional advantage that the pure EotM people support improvements of WvW to get rid of the WvWlers that crashed their karma train.

The only change they will make, if we all only play EotM is disable the WvW maps alltogether. and announce it in their Feature pack as a BIG improvement (like 3 new colors for Commander Tag)

We should not do it silently, but combined with (non ANet) forum protests. Press Infos, YouTube videos, twitter, Facebook, etc.

The next season would be a good opportunity to do so. But I guess instead of a combined effort to save WvW, the slow dying will just continue.

Dayra.7405:

We should not do it silently, but combined with (non ANet) forum protests. Press Infos, YouTube videos, twitter, Facebook, etc.

The next season would be a good opportunity to do so. But I guess instead of a combined effort to save WvW, the slow dying will just continue.

Tried to get people to join in, they’ve either already left the game or are happy to ignore the problems, or even refuse to do anything about it. I went to gw2wvw.net and they basically said if I tried to organise anything there they would ban me from there; learning from the best there as well I see :P
I think they too are in denial, try to keep problems quite and hopefully more people will come to the game, spend money on gems which will hopefully improve the game in the future. Sorry but 2 years and we’ve got scraps nothing more, no-one should be helping anet to silence to issues, we should all be noe highlighting, putting a spot light and shouting from the tops of hills about the problems. Perhaps with all the bad publicity we could make, anet management will finally understand there is more to GW2 than PvE, and there are serious issues which need immediate attention!

But I dont see any of the above happening any time soon, not even in the next year!

Not only that, even if we did produce youtube videos to show the bad stuff about the game, you know anet will contact google to have the stuff removed using copyright as an excuse! They have already stooped so low that I wouldnt put it past them doing such things!

Curby.4897:

TL/DR Chop Chop Anet

Like a sponge left to soak overnight in liquid pretentiousness.
The least you can do is not treat people you bought an “as is” game from as your butler, prince Curby.

Treating developers like servants that owe you anything only makes them work slower.

I understand you have problems with the state of the game, but insulting the only people that can fix it is bad for everyone that wants a breath of fresh air in terms of any content rework at all.

Insulting and punishing your players is even worse!

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Insulting and punishing your players is even worse!

That doesn’t excuse having a fetid attitude about it.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Curby.4897:

TL/DR Chop Chop Anet

only makes them work slower.

I seriously don’t think they could work any slower.

Johje Holan.4607:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Curby.4897:

TL/DR Chop Chop Anet

only makes them work slower.

I seriously don’t think they could work any slower.

If they are doing anything above nothing regarding this, they can certainly work slower.

If they -are- doing nothing, asking them to pay up with changes that are supposedly in the works is a useless demand.

There’s always slower. The devs are people too, not animals or patch-machines. You don’t kick them when they’re not doing what you want (and even that is abusive when applied to animals or such.)

Obviously there is a problem. It’s being approached poorly.

The CDI opens in a day, right? Put together the complaint in a manner that doesn’t cast Anet in the light of a lazy servant and we might actually see something happen.

Watch the interview I linked above, they are doing nothing! They are not working on WvW!!!

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Watch the interview I linked above, they are doing nothing! They are not working on WvW!!!

That still doesn’t excuse the fetid attitude. If they are not working on it, the last thing that will make them start is a long slew of insults about them being lazy.

The entire game was built upon months and months of sleepless nights and stress and probably runs on blood and tears right now. they don’t need people telling them they don’t work hard enough.

you want change? be a human being and make the request like you have some sense.

-Gee whiz.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Watch the interview I linked above, they are doing nothing! They are not working on WvW!!!

That still doesn’t excuse the fetid attitude. If they are not working on it, the last thing that will make them start is a long slew of insults about them being lazy.

The entire game was built upon months and months of sleepless nights and stress and probably runs on blood and tears right now. they don’t need people telling them they don’t work hard enough.

you want change? be a human being and make the request like you have some sense.

-Gee whiz.

Couldn’t have said it better. Who here would be inclined to come in such a hate pit? If I was a dev the last thing I would want to do is come see you guys.

I understand the frustration, I really do, but if you have reached a point where all you are is solidified anger, just remove yourself from the forums. You won’t help anybody by letting that kind of steam out all the time. You are kittening at humans who might want to help you/us but they can’t because their boss won’t let them. Not very comfortable.

In the interview above, I was put in front of one of the big problem that plague any game, and real life, when one of the guy asked about reward for scouting (I actually facepalmed at the question). Do you all just do thing because there is an external carrot to gain? Or scouting is rewarding enough in itself that you will still do it? If players could slowly start to gain reward out of something else than loot/xp/karma a lot of the problem we see wouldn’t even matter.

I am happy with “sorry guys, we could not do enough for WvW as the china release took all our resources.” (Just as an example)

What I cannot accept is: “we are all happy with WvW, it is great as it is, there is not need to do anything else than fixing a ballista bug here and adding a new trap there.”

The first is better because it corresponds with the player experience. The second is just a denial of reality.

The first tells me: ok my problem get recognized, as soon as they are able to allocate resources they will likely do something. Hey I can help them buying gems such that they can pay more developers.

The second tells: my problem is not recognized, they aren’t able to see the problems, why should I buy a gems to support them in their view of the world which isn’t mine."

Correction… the game is just over 2 years old. Still two years without significant WvW system changes, no new classes, very few new traits/skills, no new weapons, etc is a long time for an MMO to go with mostly seasonal content.

Dayra.7405:

I am happy with “sorry guys, we could not do enough for WvW as the china release took all our resources.” (Just as an example)

What I cannot accept is: “we are all happy with WvW, it is great as it is, there is not need to do anything else than fixing a ballista bug here and adding a new trap there.”

The first is better because it corresponds with the player experience. The second is just a denial of reality.

The first tells me: ok my problem get recognized, as soon as they are able to allocate resources they will likely do something. Hey I can help them buying gems such that they can pay more developers.

The second tells: my problem is not recognized, they aren’t able to see the problems, why should I buy a gems to support them in their view of the world which isn’t mine."

The developers had a specific image in mind when they put WVW together. if they feel they attained that, then you can’t say they’re denying reality, just because their view of the ideal does not coincide with yours.

You also do not have to support them if you are displeased with the content. They are not strongarming you.

The content belongs to the devs first, and then the players. If you feel very strongly that a change should be made, push for that change with all the proof and debate you can muster. They have an avenue built specifically for listening to you regarding what needs “fixing.”

If they think its in a good place, tell them otherwise! Guardian got a buff even though it was “in a good place”.

Straegen.2938:

Correction… the game is just over 2 years old. Still two years without significant WvW system changes, no new classes, very few new traits/skills, no new weapons, etc is a long time for an MMO to go with mostly seasonal content.

They just milk it and let a big potential going to waste, not only with WvW but many other aspects of the game. Such a shame but hey not much we can do about it other then just watching it.

No valuable change after EotM release in jan 2014. Before our urgent problems got addressed: culling, match making, even coverage a bit (activity points via blood lust, instead of pure ticker.). They all took longer then we would have liked, but communication was much better. We saw they recognized the problem and worked on it, delivers an experiment here and there.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

The developers had a specific image in mind when they put WVW together. if they feel they attained that, then you can’t say they’re denying reality, just because their view of the ideal does not coincide with yours.

Do you really want to tell me they want that most matches are stagnant or blow outs or even both and that most worlds are empty most of the time?

Do you really want to tell me seasons are made with the intended goal that everyone spends gems to transfer to the top 3 server, such that all others can be shut downed to save costs without protest because there is no one left?

That would be even worser than just denial of that reality.

There are other big fishes in the sea now, one of them is getting 2 new epic-scale competitive maps (amazing trailer out).

GW2 is amazing but sadly there is just no new content and apparently no will do do more. Being stuck in the same matchups for 3 months just isn’t fun even if you are winning.

What makes it sad for me is the contrast to GW1. GW1 had expansion packs out with new classes, weapons, skills and permanent PvE content in the same time frame.