Guild Wars 2

So with the new QL (a tower that is hard to attack anyway) by putting a big cliff in the way making it harder to counter siege i was wondering why anza/speldan/mendons didn’t get some love. Its common knowledge that anza and mendons are nearly imposable to upgrade due to the long distance the dolyaks have to travel so anza and mendons become the paper whipping boys of EB, heck you can have 2 dollys in the keep from pang by the time one dolly makes it from speldan. This puts red in an unfair disadvantage vs green and blue you are nearly always 20 points down. Ql Looks like it was “Fixed” in 5 mins with the weird bridge just looks like a hack job. Im sick of defending these paper towers and trying to upgrade them they just get flipped anyway. I know this will probably never gonna get addressed but here is my attempt Note im not a regular poster nor am i pro at editing pics so please go easy on me internet, post your own edit lets “Try” make it happen

Mendons and Anz are hard to upgrade, because they are the “outside” towers on the red side of the map. While Veloka and Ogrewatch are the inside towers so they upgrade MUCH quicker. IMO doesn’t need changed at all.

Edit: To clarify all 3 corners have 2 inside, and 2 outside towers on them, Red side just has the 2 inside on the right side of the corner and outside on the left of the corner, while the other colors have 1 inside and 1 outside on the same sides of the corner.

Ogrewatch isn’t a inner tower as it can be trebbed from SMC (only outer towers can be trebbed from SMC).

Also Mendon is the only inner tower that cannot be trebbed from your keep.

And if you still want to argue about who is inner and who is outer tower… The PoI’s in inner towers are called [Name Tower] (like Mendon Tower) and the ones on outer towers are called [Name Post] (like Ogrewatch Post). So even Anet agrees that Mendon is the same as Veloka and Ogrewatch is the same as Anzalias.

Let’s also mention the other big disparities:

1) Red keep is the only keep that has outer and inner gates that face spawn that cannot be double-rammed.
2) There is no built-in siege (oil or cannon) on Water Gate.
3) It is the only keep that can be trebbed from SMC.

Red keep is also the fastest to upgrade.

Reverence.6915:

Red keep is also the fastest to upgrade.

Questionable…

It’s true that the distance between pangloss and the keep is the smaller of any other camp/keep, which lead to pangloss suppling Overlook faster. However it’s nearly impossible for the overlook to receive supplies from Speldan which is the longest of all supply routes.

Lowlands and Valley upgrade faster then Overlook if all the 3 teams are keep both of their supply routes.
Overlook will upgrade faster than Valley and Lowlands if they are keeping Pangloss and the other two keeps are maintaining only one of the their camps (regardless of which).
Overlook will upgrade much slower then Lowlands and Valley if they only keep speldan, regardless of which camp the other two keep are maintaining (even if only one).

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

2) There is no built-in siege (oil or cannon) on Water Gate.

Neither does green keep, (although green keep water gate is a joke)

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

3) It is the only keep that can be trebbed from SMC.

It is also the only keep that can treb SMC

Jeknar.6184:

Ogrewatch isn’t a inner tower as it can be trebbed from SMC (only outer towers can be trebbed from SMC).

Also Mendon is the only inner tower that cannot be trebbed from your keep.

And if you still want to argue about who is inner and who is outer tower… The PoI’s in inner towers are called [Name Tower] (like Mendon Tower) and the ones on outer towers are called [Name Post] (like Ogrewatch Post). So even Anet agrees that Mendon is the same as Veloka and Ogrewatch is the same as Anzalias.

Ogrewatch can treb the inner of red keep, and Ogrewatch can be defended at nearly every angle from red keep trebs. These are two properties only inner towers share. Note that Anzalias and Mendon’s share neither of these properties.

Name aside, the ease with which OW upgrades and the ease with which it’s defended by mortars/trebs from red keep means we should treat it as an inner tower. Yes, it’s unfortunate that it can be treb’d from SM, but that shouldn’t disqualify it from being an inner tower.

mango.9267:

Ogrewatch can treb the inner of red keep, and Ogrewatch can be defended at nearly every angle from red keep trebs. These are two properties only inner towers share. Note that Anzalias and Mendon’s share neither of these properties.

Name aside, the ease with which OW upgrades and the ease with which it’s defended by mortars/trebs from red keep means we should treat it as an inner tower. Yes, it’s unfortunate that it can be treb’d from SM, but that shouldn’t disqualify it from being an inner tower.

We can go all day long on why Ogrewatch is or isn’t an outer/inner tower… Simply because it has the properties of both and they do not deny each other.

However I would like to point out that Ogrewatch upgrade just as easy as Quentin Lake and Wildcreek Run which are outer towers. Inner towers tend to upgrade SLOWER than outer towers as you always control your keep (or at least you should) but not always control SMC, making the supply routes to outer towers faster than the ones for inner towers.

I think that Anet’s idea with the red side was to help the “weakest” server. Not by making it easier to hold everything but by making so they can at least hold 3 things : their keep, Veloka and OW.

With Mendon and Anz facing the “strongest” server, those towers would fall anyway.

However, I’m pretty sure that by now, we have all realized how flawed that is. If the strongest server manages to cap OL, the weakest is doomed until green gets bored of holding it.

But to come back to Mendon : it’s a terrible tower. Even if the yak was faster, it’s so easy to destroy the siege weapons in it thanks to the bridge, the stairs and the little hill.

The way to fix Mendon’s is to put an elevator door at the bottom of the stairs (where the guards are) so defenders can get in.

Mendons and QL should not have a section cut out that allows a single AC to destroy all siege in them. Our small group can take all the siege out without even bringing up swords half the time. OW and Klovan have a similar problem. Almost no place to put outward siege that cannot be hit by a balista.

Valley is by far the best keep and has the best tower layout. Towers are easily covered by remote siege and most of its towers have the high ground.

caljay.8720:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

2) There is no built-in siege (oil or cannon) on Water Gate.

Neither does green keep, (although green keep water gate is a joke)

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

3) It is the only keep that can be trebbed from SMC.

It is also the only keep that can treb SMC

2) True, it’s not much of a “gate” — blue and red have actual, rammable gates, and it seems odd that red doesn’t share the same features as blue. Green’s water gate is technically also protected by its outer cannons.
3) I’ll concede that, but the people who have (and hold) SMC are more often than not going to be red team.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

2) True, it’s not much of a “gate” — blue and red have actual, rammable gates, and it seems odd that red doesn’t share the same features as blue. Green’s water gate is technically also protected by its outer cannons.

You can ram green keep watergate too. There’s a slight ledge above them where you can jump up and drop a ram.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

3) I’ll concede that, but the people who have (and hold) SMC are more often than not going to be red team.

That’s completely false, since red is usually weakest server offseason/always weakest server during seasons.

mango.9267:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

2) True, it’s not much of a “gate” — blue and red have actual, rammable gates, and it seems odd that red doesn’t share the same features as blue. Green’s water gate is technically also protected by its outer cannons.

You can ram green keep watergate too. There’s a slight ledge above them where you can jump up and drop a ram.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

3) I’ll concede that, but the people who have (and hold) SMC are more often than not going to be red team.

That’s completely false, since red is usually weakest server offseason/always weakest server during seasons.

2) Only works if you can ninja. There are mortars and cannons that easily knock those rams out. I can’t even remember the last time green WG was rammed — it’s usually omegas that hit it from underwater.

Wait whoa, that came out wrong. Let me rephrase:

3) I’ll concede that, but the people who have (and hold) SMC are more often than not not going to be red team.

There was an extra “not” I was missing.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

it’s usually omegas that hit it from underwater.

Omegas can’t shoot underwater…

Jeknar.6184:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

it’s usually omegas that hit it from underwater.

Omegas can’t shoot underwater…

Apologies, it’s been a late night. “It’s usually Omegas that approach from underwater that hit the gate.”

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Apologies, it’s been a late night. “It’s usually Omegas that approach from underwater that hit the gate.”

dude… Omegas can’t shoot from underwater… At best you meant alphas, because they can actually punch the gate, but omegas can’t do anything while swimming.

Jeknar.6184:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Apologies, it’s been a late night. “It’s usually Omegas that approach from underwater that hit the gate.”

dude… Omegas can’t shoot from underwater… At best you meant alphas, because they can actually punch the gate, but omegas can’t do anything while swimming.

Positioning, do you know it?

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Let’s also mention the other big disparities:

1) Red keep is the only keep that has outer and inner gates that face spawn that cannot be double-rammed.
2) There is no built-in siege (oil or cannon) on Water Gate.
3) It is the only keep that can be trebbed from SMC.

1) that should be true for all 3 keeps
3) The opposite is also valid. And I think this outweight the fact that can be trebbed.

Better idea, Switch red and green’s colors on the EB map up.

BlazeQ.1095:

Better idea, Switch red and green’s colors on the EB map up.

No! Lowlands is the worst keep to defend with few people… It’s way too big and super siege intensive.

I’d rather have Red for Valley, Blue for Lowlands and Green for Overlook.

BlazeQ.1095:

Better idea, Switch red and green’s colors on the EB map up.

Medium server would have a harder time in EB and High would be even better. With OL, Veloka and OW, High would have an easier time defending the towers from Medium. As for Anz and Veloka, since Low is going to be green, it would make them at tiny bit more easy to capture.
But if Low couldn’t even hold OL, there’s practically no way that they are going to manage to hold Lowlands.