Guild Wars 2

Here’s an idea.

Mesmers are now the most annoying class for a group after they’ve capped a keep. Don’t get me wrong, I play a mesmer a lot of the time. There’s nothing more annoying than having to hunt down a mesmer, or even spend longer now just seeing if there is one. This will be even worse with HoT as keeps are much larger, more good places to hide, and with Chronomancer, will be able to perma-stealth, not just stealth for 45 seconds.

Possible solution: give all guards infrared vision and revealing shots. That way, if the mesmer is anywhere near a guard, they can’t be stealthed.

Or they could make it that when you cap a keep/garrison, that when the Champion Keep Lord or Champion Tower Lord has Righteous Indignation, that the keep/tower has a -1000 health / sec degen on any enemy within the confines of said tower/keep, and being invis does not make you immune to this.

Just drop some stealth traps…

The solution for Mesmers in keeps is to make Portal not able to go through intact walls.

Been saying it since launch but its not going to change. Anet loves their cheese. They just increased stealth – they make changes for PvP and PvE, they don’t care about how anything effects WvW.

I dunno, I think the problem is stealth itself, and this thread just discuss one situation that it is a problem.

I have come around to the idea that once you come out of stealth, that you should have a specified amount of time that you are under the reveal effect, preventing back to back spamming or chaining of stealth. The problem with that is the fact that they would need to rebalance Mesmer/thief, to adjust for that.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Here’s an idea.

Mesmers are now the most annoying class for a group after they’ve capped a keep. Don’t get me wrong, I play a mesmer a lot of the time. There’s nothing more annoying than having to hunt down a mesmer, or even spend longer now just seeing if there is one. This will be even worse with HoT as keeps are much larger, more good places to hide, and with Chronomancer, will be able to perma-stealth, not just stealth for 45 seconds.

Possible solution: give all guards infrared vision and revealing shots. That way, if the mesmer is anywhere near a guard, they can’t be stealthed.

I agree

New keeps and towers in HoT will be mesmer portal heaven unless they fix stealth. No one is going to spend all their time hunting out mesmers in those places, they are just way too big. After doing it for the 10th time even the most hard core will just accept that portal flipping is a fact of life and here comes the EoTM part 2 karma train.

Stealth as a mechanic is fine if classes have counters to it, or if stealth causes you to move slowly and/or degen energy whilst in stealth so that you cannot perma stealth and secondly by being in stealth you can’t port around the map.

Just some tips since people seem to have left their brains switched off…

• Ranger has access to “Sic Em” – it applies Revealed
• Engineer trait has access to Revealed debuff via traits
• Stealth Disruptor Trap exists. Start using it. But first, start using your brains.
• Most PU Mesmers don’t carry much condi-cleanse, or only have 1, therefore they are weak against conditions. Immobilize them to set up a burst, CC them etc… preferably AFTER you’ve applied Revealed to them to make it easier.
• Trapper builds via thief/ranger work well against a stealthed mesmer
• Turn your sound up/on; you can hear the enemy Mesmer’s skills (stealth) going on/off CD and may help you distinguish where exactly they are

Seriously guys, get it together.

Zephyra.4709:

Just some tips since people seem to have left their brains switched off…

• Ranger has access to “Sic Em” – it applies Revealed
• Engineer trait has access to Revealed debuff via traits
• Stealth Disruptor Trap exists. Start using it. But first, start using your brains.
• Most PU Mesmers don’t carry much condi-cleanse, or only have 1, therefore they are weak against conditions. Immobilize them to set up a burst, CC them etc… preferably AFTER you’ve applied Revealed to them to make it easier.
• Trapper builds via thief/ranger work well against a stealthed mesmer
• Turn your sound up/on; you can hear the enemy Mesmer’s skills (stealth) going on/off CD and may help you distinguish where exactly they are

Seriously guys, get it together.

Glad to see that not everyone just see’s a Mesmer go into stealth and gives up instead of tracking them down and killing them. I mean really it’s not exactly hard to do. By now most people are aware of the general hiding places and while some mesmers have more tricks up their sleeves than others if you have a good sweeping team it’s not hard to distinguish where they might be. The best sweeping team I’ve seen thus far was a 4 man guild group consisting of a thief, engi, Mesmer, and ranger. Mesmer knew the spots, engi and ranger would reveal, then they’d burst you down. If people are actually serious about sweeping and do more than just glance around there’d be a lot less to worry about.

Part of me agrees with the removal of the ability for portals to ignore walls, however part of me disagrees with this as it allows a mesmer to let reinforcements back through a repaired wall during a siege.

The concept of stealth in a keep is cool, too, as I’ve had a few instances where after a flip, my guild in its entirety has balled into a corner and just used thieves to hide and wait for RI to go down. That also feels like a valid tactic considering the entire guild was hiding inside and the obvious thief AOE stealth tells (red circles/lines) were neglected.

speaking for engi which is supposedly the best mesmer hunting class with 2 reveals using lock on and utility googles, its not so ez. Analyze, which is the tool belt skill that applies reveal is still a projectile which can be blocked and obstructed.

you might note that the PU trait applies aegis quite often which means that 1/2 second they appear they also frequently also have aegis. I was chasing a mes through hills last night and 3 times I tried analyze, 2 were blocked by aegis and the 3rd was simply obstructed when the mesmer was about 600 range in front of me.

thats also not counting bad timing when you attempt analyze and they go stealth at same time but dont get reveal due to millisecond pings.

as for lock on trait, now this is gonna sound silly, but it only applies the reveal when using a targeted ability. you might realize that if theyre stealthed, you cant target them!

how this works in practice… target mes, spam abilities such as rifle 1 and hope that when they go stealth, you have a projectile mid flight that hits right after they vanish.

usually we just have to bring like 10 ppl to chase the mes for how ever long it takes.

despite the silliness of the mechanic I feel its part of wvw and removing this would diminish the variety of situations which draws us to this game mode over spvp.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Here’s an idea.

Mesmers are now the most annoying class for a group after they’ve capped a keep. Don’t get me wrong, I play a mesmer a lot of the time. There’s nothing more annoying than having to hunt down a mesmer, or even spend longer now just seeing if there is one. This will be even worse with HoT as keeps are much larger, more good places to hide, and with Chronomancer, will be able to perma-stealth, not just stealth for 45 seconds.

Possible solution: give all guards infrared vision and revealing shots. That way, if the mesmer is anywhere near a guard, they can’t be stealthed.

While granted that it does get boring looking for mesmers all the time, it does add a level of tactics and a layer of gameplay to the overall battles. I’m not sure its a good idea to eliminate that layer.

I would definitely not give all guards ability to see through stealth. Maybe, and thats a big maybe, make a patrol or 2 that has dogs, like in otehr games, the dogs can see and expose stealthed toons.

Solution to mesmers in keeps?

Count to 60.

Then they are exposed, all spells timed out.

Nuke and stake.

Zephyra.4709:

Just some tips since people seem to have left their brains switched off…

• Ranger has access to “Sic Em” – it applies Revealed
• Engineer trait has access to Revealed debuff via traits
• Stealth Disruptor Trap exists. Start using it. But first, start using your brains.
• Most PU Mesmers don’t carry much condi-cleanse, or only have 1, therefore they are weak against conditions. Immobilize them to set up a burst, CC them etc… preferably AFTER you’ve applied Revealed to them to make it easier.
• Trapper builds via thief/ranger work well against a stealthed mesmer
• Turn your sound up/on; you can hear the enemy Mesmer’s skills (stealth) going on/off CD and may help you distinguish where exactly they are

Seriously guys, get it together.

If the game supported that much loved feature of Guild Wars, namely being able to swap builds by clicking on that saved template, then I’d agree that they wouldn’t be so hard to deal with.

Is it is, most of the above suggestions would involve getting out of combat, fiddling around with stats and build and then starting the mesmer hunt- none of which rewards anything much other than plenty of frustration unless at least 3 others are around to help kill the revealed mesmer before he disappears again. Then when your done, swapping back to a sensible build and carrying on.

HoT keeps will need 20 people sweeping to ensure a couple of mes/thief teams aren’t missed.

Notsoperky.4291:

Is it is, most of the above suggestions would involve getting out of combat, fiddling around with stats and build and then starting the mesmer hunt- none of which rewards anything much other than plenty of frustration unless at least 3 others are around to help kill the revealed mesmer before he disappears again. Then when your done, swapping back to a sensible build and carrying on.

For me personally I’ve never really considered rewards in wvw, I think of it as more of a pride thing. I main Mesmer for instance, always have, so I pride myself on good sweeps and being able to find and flush out other Mesmers, considering it my own folly if a tower or keep I participated in sweeping still has a living Mesmer inside when I leave. In all honesty though there’s a number of things in wvw that aren’t exactly rewarding in the monetary sense. Defense for example is one of my favorite things, and I’ll spend the time and money running yaks, starting upgrades, building and refreshing siege, all often by myself and by the end of the day be in the hole a good few gold but the reward for me comes when the enemy tries to take the tower and fails,mi find it satisfying lol.

A lot of people sadly don’t consider sweeping a serious thing and therefore haven’t made much of an effort to familiarize themselves with the spots which is one reason people consider it a problem. (Not that I particularly mind because I am a portal Mesmer lol)

Wow, you guys that think this is so easy by linking stealth reveal crap don’t know what you’re talking about. None of those traits work if the mesmer is too far away to hit. None of those traits work if the mesmer is already stealthed and now far away. None of those traits work if they portaled to the other side of the keep and you have to hunt them down again. It usually takes 10-15 people to hunt down a mesmer in a reasonable amount of time. You don’t just wait 60 seconds, Jayne, as their stuff goes back off CD, especially if they were able to get away and hide for a little bit. I think many of you just don’t know how much of an incredible waste of time this is. This is not a feature that adds a new layer to the game play. WvW has been out for 3 years now. This was introduced a couple months ago.

Ever since the June 23rd patch, we’ve wasted a ton of time in WvW trying to find and kill mesmers. This will only be worse in HoT. If you haven’t played the beta, then kitten.

Jayne.9251:

Solution to mesmers in keeps?

Count to 60.

Then they are exposed, all spells timed out.

Nuke and stake.

That would incorrectly assume you can see every possible square inch of the area at once, inside the walled area of a keep. That is a poor assertion on your part in my opinion.

coglin.1867:

Jayne.9251:

Solution to mesmers in keeps?

Count to 60.

Then they are exposed, all spells timed out.

Nuke and stake.

That would incorrectly assume you can see every possible square inch of the area at once, inside the walled area of a keep. That is a poor assertion on your part in my opinion.

/shrug

It’s how I catch them.

And my main is a mesmer

the NPC Archer Veterans need Sic um or their own Reveal skill to stop any perma stealth attempts , perfect for Solo or small group situations.

Stealth Disrupter Traps
Supply trap to help locate where stealthed enemy is (works best in briar and other small towers)
Ranger has “Sic-Em”
Engie has trait + utility to help reveal I believe.
Necro has marks to help track invisibility.
Any traps from rangers and thieves will also help locate stealthed/hiding players.
If you’re crit chance is high and have superior sigil of fire or air then use aoe’s and look for procs
look for minipets
most of all, melee just swing auto attacks and watch your animations

Johje Holan.4607:

The solution for Mesmers in keeps is to make Portal not able to go through intact walls.

Been saying it since launch but its not going to change. Anet loves their cheese. They just increased stealth – they make changes for PvP and PvE, they don’t care about how anything effects WvW.

I can’t say I’ve ever needed to portal people in to cap something after RI’s gone. It just makes it a bit faster.

Zephyra.4709:

Just some tips since people seem to have left their brains switched off…

• Ranger has access to “Sic Em” – it applies Revealed
• Engineer trait has access to Revealed debuff via traits
• Stealth Disruptor Trap exists. Start using it. But first, start using your brains.
• Most PU Mesmers don’t carry much condi-cleanse, or only have 1, therefore they are weak against conditions. Immobilize them to set up a burst, CC them etc… preferably AFTER you’ve applied Revealed to them to make it easier.
• Trapper builds via thief/ranger work well against a stealthed mesmer
• Turn your sound up/on; you can hear the enemy Mesmer’s skills (stealth) going on/off CD and may help you distinguish where exactly they are

Seriously guys, get it together.

I asume you did not play on the new borderland? It really will be impossible to catch thiefs and messmers inside of those. The keeps are HUGE and there are so many spots and on so many levels that you would have to have a full zoneblob constantly running inside for hours until you can be on the safe side. There are just walls, corners, levels, los and posiblity to move between them without you see them. The amount of stealthtraps you would have to use and the chance that you are next to one when it goes off is roughly around zero.

Consider there is also already a problem with glitching and hacking messmers, this will be next to impossible to prove unless they do it on purpose infront of you.

The idea the person in first post are giving is actually a good idea and should be thought of. First time i enter those keep my first thought was, my god, this will be messmer heaven and we will never have any upgraded keeps, and this will turn in to karmatrain a la EotM. We saw what this means on golem week, were we lost a big pile of wvw population already.

Zephyra.4709:

Just some tips since people seem to have left their brains switched off…

• Ranger has access to “Sic Em” – it applies Revealed
• Engineer trait has access to Revealed debuff via traits
• Stealth Disruptor Trap exists. Start using it. But first, start using your brains.
• Most PU Mesmers don’t carry much condi-cleanse, or only have 1, therefore they are weak against conditions. Immobilize them to set up a burst, CC them etc… preferably AFTER you’ve applied Revealed to them to make it easier.
• Trapper builds via thief/ranger work well against a stealthed mesmer
• Turn your sound up/on; you can hear the enemy Mesmer’s skills (stealth) going on/off CD and may help you distinguish where exactly they are

Seriously guys, get it together.

^ Pretty much this.

Synosius.9876:

as for lock on trait, now this is gonna sound silly, but it only applies the reveal when using a targeted ability. you might realize that if theyre stealthed, you cant target them!

Doesn’t it mean ground-targeted? I’m not Engi, but I remember the speculation with revealing Grenades.

Rym.1469:

Synosius.9876:

as for lock on trait, now this is gonna sound silly, but it only applies the reveal when using a targeted ability. you might realize that if theyre stealthed, you cant target them!

Doesn’t it mean ground-targeted? I’m not Engi, but I remember the speculation with revealing Grenades.

Yeah it just needs to hit them, so grenades still work fine.

Zephyra.4709:

Just some tips since people seem to have left their brains switched off…

• Ranger has access to “Sic Em” – it applies Revealed
• Engineer trait has access to Revealed debuff via traits
• Stealth Disruptor Trap exists. Start using it. But first, start using your brains.
• Most PU Mesmers don’t carry much condi-cleanse, or only have 1, therefore they are weak against conditions. Immobilize them to set up a burst, CC them etc… preferably AFTER you’ve applied Revealed to them to make it easier.
• Trapper builds via thief/ranger work well against a stealthed mesmer
• Turn your sound up/on; you can hear the enemy Mesmer’s skills (stealth) going on/off CD and may help you distinguish where exactly they are

Seriously guys, get it together.

Additionally, dragon hunters will get a trap that reveals enemy players.
Revenant will get a 600 range reveal…with a 20s CD.

Also they need to alter the torch trait. This isn’t a non Mesmer player hate, it’s just a flat out bad trait which is bad for non PU builds and stupidly strong with PU builds (13s CD prestige).

To all you defending this terrible game mechanic combined with Mesmer’s ability to port…

If I wanted to play hide and seek I’d get some friends together and go outside. I don’t want to play hide and seek in WvW.

And all you are seemingly ignoring how this is going to play out in the new BL keeps.

I think giving the guards and lords reveal is a good idea. It still allows for Mesmers to hide out and do their thing, but it means they need to be more careful. Put in some roaming guards while were at it.

Mesmers are one class that went over the top with the trait changes, they have access to to much. Now I know all the mesmer kiddies are going to come screaming and stomping their feet but, it’s about balancing the game so it’s enjoyable for everyone, not so it’s enjoyable for 1 class.

Mesmers were fine as far as hiding in keeps before the changes, they had to use their brains about it but it was easily doable. Now it’s just to the point of stupidity, they can just run away without any thought, no effort needs to be put into it, and for those listing reveals and the likes, most people as I’m sure you are aware will not and do not take these traits/utilities. They are not needed for 99.9% of the game and a waste of a trait/utility. Sitting in a keep guarding it has no rewards, it’s more likely to believe that no one will sit in a keep boring themselves to death with their “reveal build” that is useless for anything but sitting in a keep, all while receiving no rewards.

Just because you play a Mesmer doesn’t mean you can’t see the flaws and come up with suggestions that work for you and other classes. If you are stealthed in a keep and laughing while putting in next to no effort as people are trying to find you than yes, it is broken, there should be some degree of challenge to remain in that keep.

Offair.2563:

Zephyra.4709:

Just some tips since people seem to have left their brains switched off…

• Ranger has access to “Sic Em” – it applies Revealed
• Engineer trait has access to Revealed debuff via traits
• Stealth Disruptor Trap exists. Start using it. But first, start using your brains.
• Most PU Mesmers don’t carry much condi-cleanse, or only have 1, therefore they are weak against conditions. Immobilize them to set up a burst, CC them etc… preferably AFTER you’ve applied Revealed to them to make it easier.
• Trapper builds via thief/ranger work well against a stealthed mesmer
• Turn your sound up/on; you can hear the enemy Mesmer’s skills (stealth) going on/off CD and may help you distinguish where exactly they are

Seriously guys, get it together.

^ Pretty much this.

lol Babou… it’s already bad, but Chronomancer is going to make it a whole lot worse, if not impossible. Noone is going to want to bother. I’m already fed up with it. But good luck hunting them down for me. I’m glad I can rely on you to do it for us :P

Random.4691:

I think giving the guards and lords reveal is a good idea. It still allows for Mesmers to hide out and do their thing, but it means they need to be more careful. Put in some roaming guards while were at it.

Mesmers are one class that went over the top with the trait changes, they have access to to much. Now I know all the mesmer kiddies are going to come screaming and stomping their feet but, it’s about balancing the game so it’s enjoyable for everyone, not so it’s enjoyable for 1 class.

Mesmers were fine as far as hiding in keeps before the changes, they had to use their brains about it but it was easily doable. Now it’s just to the point of stupidity, they can just run away without any thought, no effort needs to be put into it, and for those listing reveals and the likes, most people as I’m sure you are aware will not and do not take these traits/utilities. They are not needed for 99.9% of the game and a waste of a trait/utility. Sitting in a keep guarding it has no rewards, it’s more likely to believe that no one will sit in a keep boring themselves to death with their “reveal build” that is useless for anything but sitting in a keep, all while receiving no rewards.

Just because you play a Mesmer doesn’t mean you can’t see the flaws and come up with suggestions that work for you and other classes. If you are stealthed in a keep and laughing while putting in next to no effort as people are trying to find you than yes, it is broken, there should be some degree of challenge to remain in that keep.

There is a difference between wanting to see mesmers toned down and encouraging game breaking mechanics being added to PvE mobs.

I absolutely agree that mesmers are currently over powered in WvW and their stealth duration needs to be adjusted.

However I completely disagree with npc’s “having infrared vision and revealing shots”. That kind of mechanic wouldn’t just affect mesmers hiding out after a keep fight, it would mean classes/builds reliant on stealth would be even more useless while attacking structures. This means rangers, mesmers, thieves and engie’s, basically the 4 classes without a solid role in the zerg in the first place (other than 1 mesmer acting as a veil bot, which this change would ruin).

You want mesmers toned down? Point out traits/skills that are causing the problems and propose reasonable solutions on how they should be adjusted. Do this and if the idea is good I will support you 100%. Deciding not to blindly follow a terrible idea doesn’t make me a “mesmer kiddy, screaming and stomping his feet”, it just means I disagree with a terrible idea because I have enough forethought to realize that it’s not worth breaking the game to fix 1 small problem, especially when there are other solutions.

Here’s the thing you missed Puck, opinions are suggestive, I do not think it’s a terrible idea, maybe you do but I do not. If you’re in a keep NPC’s will 9/10 times go for the first visible as a target, it would work no differently but it would make sneaking around after a cap not a lawls walk in the park. So if you go in with your small group of LGN, kill the guards, one of you’re heavies will most likely soak the damage allowing the rest of you to preform as usual. It’s not like all of a sudden the NPC’s are going to ignore everyone but classes with stealth.

As said this is an after the fact effect top make sneaking around after a cap more difficult than it currently is. Asking for a nerf (even though they need it) is never a good idea, as proven in the past so many times Anet will not only nerf the class they will gut it.

The supply requirement for all the traps needs to be reduced since the game gods have decided to make traps play a more prominent role to counter their over the top tweaks to combat…..

What about an anti-stealth field upgrade? Or special siege weapon for keeps only that needs to be taken out before enemies can stealth inside the walls?

Random.4691:

Now I know all the mesmer kiddies are going to come screaming and stomping their feet but, it’s about balancing the game so it’s enjoyable for everyone, not so it’s enjoyable for 1 class.

Actually there have been quite a few Mesmers since the patch on the Mesmer forums requesting nerfs so that the other classes would quit whining about how they were actually losing to Mesmers now lol.
And are most of these nerf threads really about balancing the game? Some are constructive I concede but many seem to be people who keep losing without adapting their build and then come on the forums to rage. Personally I’m all for balance but I dislike it when I see people who basically say they don’t like that class ____ can do ____ and want it nerfed because of it. =/

Random.4691:

Here’s the thing you missed Puck, opinions are suggestive, I do not think it’s a terrible idea, maybe you do but I do not. If you’re in a keep NPC’s will 9/10 times go for the first visible as a target, it would work no differently but it would make sneaking around after a cap not a lawls walk in the park. So if you go in with your small group of LGN, kill the guards, one of you’re heavies will most likely soak the damage allowing the rest of you to preform as usual. It’s not like all of a sudden the NPC’s are going to ignore everyone but classes with stealth.

As said this is an after the fact effect top make sneaking around after a cap more difficult than it currently is. Asking for a nerf (even though they need it) is never a good idea, as proven in the past so many times Anet will not only nerf the class they will gut it.

And if you are attacking a keep that has a crap ton of people camping ac’s and you want to get a mesmer to stealth and run inside to where the ac’s are so you can portal to them instead of pushing a deadly choke? What’s the plan there?

Mesmer stealths, tries running in, the guard uses his “infrared vision and revealing shot” to reveal the mesmer, mesmer insta dies from the 30+ inside that won’t leave their ac’s to fight, siegewars 2 becomes even more boring. Are you starting to see why this is a problem?

Hell you couldn’t even veil and push since it would take 1 stupid npc to reveal your groups position.

Another situation is what if you are a mesmer/ranger/thief running around solo and decide to ninja a tower or keep. Those professions defense heavily relies on stealth. Being constantly revealed by the guards, especially if you have to fight a few players while in npc’s, would be a death sentence. Bad idea is bad.

Mesmers want the trait “The Pledge” changed.

Currently it allows you to reduce the torch skill prestige to go from 30s to 13s by camping stealth

This is what is breaking it. This is what the problem is. Not PU. It is the torch trait!

It’s useless for anything but a stealth camping build. Mesmers want it changed to not promote stealth camping and be useful in other builds.

And, to all you [expletive deleted] advocating stealth disruptor traps, how often do we have supply after taking a keep? And if we still have supply left over, is it 10? Not very often.

Puck.9612:

Random.4691:

Here’s the thing you missed Puck, opinions are suggestive, I do not think it’s a terrible idea, maybe you do but I do not. If you’re in a keep NPC’s will 9/10 times go for the first visible as a target, it would work no differently but it would make sneaking around after a cap not a lawls walk in the park. So if you go in with your small group of LGN, kill the guards, one of you’re heavies will most likely soak the damage allowing the rest of you to preform as usual. It’s not like all of a sudden the NPC’s are going to ignore everyone but classes with stealth.

As said this is an after the fact effect top make sneaking around after a cap more difficult than it currently is. Asking for a nerf (even though they need it) is never a good idea, as proven in the past so many times Anet will not only nerf the class they will gut it.

And if you are attacking a keep that has a crap ton of people camping ac’s and you want to get a mesmer to stealth and run inside to where the ac’s are so you can portal to them instead of pushing a deadly choke? What’s the plan there?

Mesmer stealths, tries running in, the guard uses his “infrared vision and revealing shot” to reveal the mesmer, mesmer insta dies from the 30+ inside that won’t leave their ac’s to fight, siegewars 2 becomes even more boring. Are you starting to see why this is a problem?

Hell you couldn’t even veil and push since it would take 1 stupid npc to reveal your groups position.

Another situation is what if you are a mesmer/ranger/thief running around solo and decide to ninja a tower or keep. Those professions defense heavily relies on stealth. Being constantly revealed by the guards, especially if you have to fight a few players while in npc’s, would be a death sentence. Bad idea is bad.

I’m going to assume you haven’t seen the new keeps. I assure you there is A LOT more room to move around and get mesmers in. Also adjustments could be made so your not revealed, maybe the guards just chase you while still stealthed, maybe use more than a mesmer to pull the guards away from the mesmer, maybe use a SR and send in a random whatever class to pull the guard away from the mesmer. Try not to tunnel vision on 1 strategy.

Random.4691:

Puck.9612:

Random.4691:

Here’s the thing you missed Puck, opinions are suggestive, I do not think it’s a terrible idea, maybe you do but I do not. If you’re in a keep NPC’s will 9/10 times go for the first visible as a target, it would work no differently but it would make sneaking around after a cap not a lawls walk in the park. So if you go in with your small group of LGN, kill the guards, one of you’re heavies will most likely soak the damage allowing the rest of you to preform as usual. It’s not like all of a sudden the NPC’s are going to ignore everyone but classes with stealth.

As said this is an after the fact effect top make sneaking around after a cap more difficult than it currently is. Asking for a nerf (even though they need it) is never a good idea, as proven in the past so many times Anet will not only nerf the class they will gut it.

And if you are attacking a keep that has a crap ton of people camping ac’s and you want to get a mesmer to stealth and run inside to where the ac’s are so you can portal to them instead of pushing a deadly choke? What’s the plan there?

Mesmer stealths, tries running in, the guard uses his “infrared vision and revealing shot” to reveal the mesmer, mesmer insta dies from the 30+ inside that won’t leave their ac’s to fight, siegewars 2 becomes even more boring. Are you starting to see why this is a problem?

Hell you couldn’t even veil and push since it would take 1 stupid npc to reveal your groups position.

Another situation is what if you are a mesmer/ranger/thief running around solo and decide to ninja a tower or keep. Those professions defense heavily relies on stealth. Being constantly revealed by the guards, especially if you have to fight a few players while in npc’s, would be a death sentence. Bad idea is bad.

I’m going to assume you haven’t seen the new keeps. I assure you there is A LOT more room to move around and get mesmers in. Also adjustments could be made so your not revealed, maybe the guards just chase you while still stealthed, maybe use more than a mesmer to pull the guards away from the mesmer, maybe use a SR and send in a random whatever class to pull the guard away from the mesmer. Try not to tunnel vision on 1 strategy.

Try not to tunnel vision on how this idea affects mesmers hiding in keeps without considering how it would affect every other fight in and around towers/keeps.

Here is an idea to help that doesn’t require traits or wasted supply (stealth trap for one player). Build your defensive arrowcarts (if you don’t plan on defending I don’t know why you care about the mesmer) and have some one get on them with the mastry. Use the the reveling shot. I understand the new keeps are huge so this isn’t a good way to cover the whole keep but it effectively does what the original post wanted, it makes ‘zones’ of the keep impossible to hide in with invisibility.

apharma.3741:

Mesmers want the trait “The Pledge” changed.

Currently it allows you to reduce the torch skill prestige to go from 30s to 13s by camping stealth

This is what is breaking it. This is what the problem is. Not PU. It is the torch trait!

It’s useless for anything but a stealth camping build. Mesmers want it changed to not promote stealth camping and be useful in other builds.

That and PU both need changing. The Pledge certainly makes it even worse (and the condi clears are nice to have, so it’s not useless aside from the cooldown mod) but PU alone makes it trivially easy to escape from situations that other classes can only avoid getting into.

Ben K.6238:

apharma.3741:

Mesmers want the trait “The Pledge” changed.

Currently it allows you to reduce the torch skill prestige to go from 30s to 13s by camping stealth

This is what is breaking it. This is what the problem is. Not PU. It is the torch trait!

It’s useless for anything but a stealth camping build. Mesmers want it changed to not promote stealth camping and be useful in other builds.

That and PU both need changing. The Pledge certainly makes it even worse (and the condi clears are nice to have, so it’s not useless aside from the cooldown mod) but PU alone makes it trivially easy to escape from situations that other classes can only avoid getting into.

Actually if you just ran PU without the torch trait (but illusions line) you would have to dedicate all your utility slots, elite and an offhand weapon to get 28s continuous stealth. You would then have a 2s gap. You would then only have another 12s and that’s it. The jig is up.

Your next stealth isn’t for 18s and you don’t have any utility slots other than blink as your using mimic for decoy so it’s not like you can portal somewhere either.

That’s without mentioning the bursts of pink flame you spout when using the torch. Don’t forget memser has very very poor out of combat mobility with terrible access to swiftness unless running focus offhand.

Change the torch trait and it’ll solve the problem. Heck just make it torch skills remove 2 conditions and I’d be happy.

The issue really isnt stealth, for inside keeps at least. The issue is poor tools to reveal stealth. Really the only two tools we have are engies trait, the costly reveal trap, and soon we will have dragon hunters reveal. Sic em does not count because if the mesmer is already stealthed its useless.

Stealth trap needs to be lower to even be considered by most.
Revealed applied by other players needs to be punishing not some 5 sec bogus. Anet should try something like 10-15secs and adjust if to overbearing.

whut? 10-15s?..
Just take bunch of stealth disruptors and know places, sound and visual effects of stealth skills. Correctly placed traps are almost garanteed death sentence for any hiding class (at inners). But I almost don’t see ppl using them except me (gold league).

Mak.2657:

whut? 10-15s?..
Just take bunch of stealth disruptors and know places, sound and visual effects of stealth skills. Correctly placed traps are almost garanteed death sentence for any hiding class (at inners). But I almost don’t see ppl using them except me (gold league).

Because after taking back or defending a keep that have been breached there is simply not enough suplies to use those traps, the suplies have been used to repair walls/gates/puting up siege for any sort of defense against hordes. In top tiers were there is preassure on keeps suplies are often a huge problem and camps are mostly empty, and dolly snipers are always up.

This have worked okish on the maps we have now. With some hunting and dedication we can kill them off, but new new maps sinply are to big.
Towers are as big as our keeps are now, and they are built so that there are a gazilion of places for players to hide. To cover a keep i would guss you need more then 100 stealth traps and even if you did have that many, the chance that you are next to such trap when it goes off, is very small.

For those that have not seen the keeps and towers on the new borderland yet, scroll through this video and then come back and tell us that stealth classes here will not be a problem. Also remember they will replace our normal borderland maps that we have now with this map. It have even been said that the map will be up for a while before they make a rotation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmiNAZ4QTyk

It’s not just the most annoying, it’s the preferred for, how you say this nicely?

“Software that bends the rules a little”?

I’m just out of WvW, there’s a mesmer in EB using super speed toying around with 5 people. Fun times.

Idk about new maps tbh. Mb lower price for traps or try new tactics. I just have no xp with new maps. I think it would be more clear when more ppl test new borderlands.
Supply management is one of the task of wvw.
“mesmer in EB using super speed”
Hmm.. Superspeed is bugged now. It gives you less speed then swiftness in combat (25%).

apharma.3741:

Mesmers want the trait “The Pledge” changed.

Currently it allows you to reduce the torch skill prestige to go from 30s to 13s by camping stealth

This is what is breaking it. This is what the problem is. Not PU. It is the torch trait!

It’s useless for anything but a stealth camping build. Mesmers want it changed to not promote stealth camping and be useful in other builds.

It’s both The Pledge and Prismatic Understanding. And soon also Continuum Split (F5) on Chronomancer.

Holland.9351:

apharma.3741:

Mesmers want the trait “The Pledge” changed.

Currently it allows you to reduce the torch skill prestige to go from 30s to 13s by camping stealth

This is what is breaking it. This is what the problem is. Not PU. It is the torch trait!

It’s useless for anything but a stealth camping build. Mesmers want it changed to not promote stealth camping and be useful in other builds.

It’s both The Pledge and Prismatic Understanding. And soon also Continuum Split (F5) on Chronomancer.

I broke down how if they fixed the torch trait or simply made it a better trait and removed any CD reduction from it then mesmerising end up with a 2s window of being seen followed by an18s window and that is provided they decicate 2 trait lines (one of which has no use at all for this build other than decoy reduction) 1 GM and 1 adept trait, 2 utility slots and an elite to get that.

In chronomancer you would dedicate 3 full trait lines to being essentially a portal bot who simply spends their entire time waiting in keeps.

Start casting MI and press F5 just before it finishes casting and then press decoy.
We’re at 16s stealth. Then we use prestige, mimic, decoy, decoy mass invis to bump it up to 44s of stealth but takes about 3s to do all that so we only have about 40s of stealth left from initial F5.

30s later we can add another 6s to make it 16s (50s total steal them time) and after 2s we use decoy again which brings us up to 20s of stealth with 52s having passed.

At time 72s you now have no cool downs, stealth and continuum shift is almost recharged….but we have no stealth for another 8s.

Additionally we’re getting new ways to reveal stealth with the expansion, dragon hunter gets a trap that can reveal mesmers and we are certainly not in any shortage of guardians in WvW especially when all you need to do is change a trait line.

Revenant will not only have permanent swiftness but a 20s CD reveal also. So yes, while Mesmer with chrono could stealth a bit longer (really only covering up a small gap in stealth early and reducing the 18s gap later) there will also be counters to it out in force.

The days of mesmers and condi thieves hiding in keeps will rapidly come to an end.

apharma.3741:

Holland.9351:

apharma.3741:

Mesmers want the trait “The Pledge” changed.

Currently it allows you to reduce the torch skill prestige to go from 30s to 13s by camping stealth

This is what is breaking it. This is what the problem is. Not PU. It is the torch trait!

It’s useless for anything but a stealth camping build. Mesmers want it changed to not promote stealth camping and be useful in other builds.

It’s both The Pledge and Prismatic Understanding. And soon also Continuum Split (F5) on Chronomancer.

I broke down how if they fixed the torch trait or simply made it a better trait and removed any CD reduction from it then mesmerising end up with a 2s window of being seen followed by an18s window and that is provided they decicate 2 trait lines (one of which has no use at all for this build other than decoy reduction) 1 GM and 1 adept trait, 2 utility slots and an elite to get that.

In chronomancer you would dedicate 3 full trait lines to being essentially a portal bot who simply spends their entire time waiting in keeps.

Start casting MI and press F5 just before it finishes casting and then press decoy.
We’re at 16s stealth. Then we use prestige, mimic, decoy, decoy mass invis to bump it up to 44s of stealth but takes about 3s to do all that so we only have about 40s of stealth left from initial F5.

30s later we can add another 6s to make it 16s (50s total steal them time) and after 2s we use decoy again which brings us up to 20s of stealth with 52s having passed.

At time 72s you now have no cool downs, stealth and continuum shift is almost recharged….but we have no stealth for another 8s.

Additionally we’re getting new ways to reveal stealth with the expansion, dragon hunter gets a trap that can reveal mesmers and we are certainly not in any shortage of guardians in WvW especially when all you need to do is change a trait line.

Revenant will not only have permanent swiftness but a 20s CD reveal also. So yes, while Mesmer with chrono could stealth a bit longer (really only covering up a small gap in stealth early and reducing the 18s gap later) there will also be counters to it out in force.

The days of mesmers and condi thieves hiding in keeps will rapidly come to an end.

Are you ignoring the real issue on purpose? In the new border keeps they do not even have to be stealthed most of the time. They can simply find a spot and hide there and only use stealth to move around. There are no straight corners and easy vison in the keeps. It is full of spots to hide and to move around from spot to spot. This is why stealth classes will be a issue.