Guild Wars 2

In current borderlands it’s not that much of a problem. You sweep inner and that’s extremely easy to sweep.

Outer is usually where the problem is but again, we’re getting big counters to stealth in HoT, are you just going to ignore free stealth traps for guardians which make up the backbone of WvW?

Additionally stealth traps will absolutely ruin a mesmers day or are you deliberately ignoring the tools ANet has specifically given you to deal with this?

Edit: If you made the argument that traps should only cost badges and supply then I’d be 100% in support of that.

apharma.3741:

In chronomancer you would dedicate 3 full trait lines to being essentially a portal bot who simply spends their entire time waiting in keeps.

Well put. That’s exactly the problem.

Holland.9351:

apharma.3741:

In chronomancer you would dedicate 3 full trait lines to being essentially a portal bot who simply spends their entire time waiting in keeps.

Well put. That’s exactly the problem.

Way to ignore the rest of what I said about guards getting free stealth traps and revenants getting kitten reveal on a 20s CD.

apharma.3741:

Holland.9351:

apharma.3741:

In chronomancer you would dedicate 3 full trait lines to being essentially a portal bot who simply spends their entire time waiting in keeps.

Well put. That’s exactly the problem.

Way to ignore the rest of what I said about guards getting free stealth traps and revenants getting kitten reveal on a 20s CD.

Maybe I’ll just play Chronomancer and help ruin WvW until noone plays it anymore or they fix it.

Holland.9351:

apharma.3741:

Holland.9351:

apharma.3741:

In chronomancer you would dedicate 3 full trait lines to being essentially a portal bot who simply spends their entire time waiting in keeps.

Well put. That’s exactly the problem.

Way to ignore the rest of what I said about guards getting free stealth traps and revenants getting kitten reveal on a 20s CD.

Maybe I’ll just play Chronomancer and* help ruin WvW until noone plays it anymore* or they fix it.

Pretty sure Anet is beating you to the punch with all the PvE crap being included in the new bl.

I want to rant but i will keep it "civilize’. The major obvious problem in this game is how all your hard-work, hard-effort, time and your sacrifices are worthless: they mean nothing at all. Seriously, can we have those 2 co-founders from GW1 back including the original ArenaNet?

It is not even annoying, it is Pathetic and Ridiculous how this even considered “balance”, “challenging” or “fun”?

Example; you take 1 hour of your precious time with your group or party and worked hard to take a keep, than suddenly it is taken away from you just because a game company says so?

I do not know how some people think being robbed for your hard-work and hard-effort is a good thing? That is correct! You are being Robbed for your time and effot! How can some people believe this is a good thing?

So you believe and agree that it is a good thing to have your paycheck and your hours take away from you, just because the company says it ok? No! it is a good thing because obviously! players who sacrificed their time, hard-effort and hard-work is good thing.

Not to insult:

Well if that is the case: this game is for you, obviously. You will defend Arena net practice until your values, principles and morals mean nothing anymore.

Last: I am not here to try to change anyone. I am here to defend value, principles and worth. Your Value, Principle and Worth Should Be Rewarded, Not To Be Taken Robbed From You Just Because a company Says So

" Never Give Someone The Opportunity To Waste Your Time Twice "

" It Is Your Time. Value It. Or Someone Else Will "

" Don’t Ask Someone Why. Why You Keep Letting Them? "

Until your precious time, efforts, hard worsk and your sacrifices are valued and worthy… I suggest: Don’t Waste Them

That is all.

I get that its a tactic, and its a viable tactic…but its also unbalanced due to the never ending stealth that is becoming and will continue to become all the more prevalent in WvW.

Simple solution:
When an enclosed(walled) objective is captured. – Revealed is applied to all enemies in all areas inside the tower/keep/castle. Permanently(no timer like RI). (Stealth being disabled for all professions with access to it when inside an enemy controlled, fortified objective with no breaks(in walls or gates) for enemy access in the perimeter. This would not include camps or sentry positions, as they are not enclosed/fortified.)

When a gate or wall is breached, this effect is removed.

Ex #1: Bust a wall, stealth the group, CHARGE!

Ex #2: All 3 servers have a group inside Stonemist(or Hills or Bay or etc.). A wall and gate have been breached. All Stealth is working. Server 1 takes the Objective as the other 2 groups are fighting in the courtyard. The wall and gate are rebuilt. Servers 2 and 3 now lose their Stealth tools/skills. Hopefully your group is good enough to not have to rely on stealth alone to win.

If this were implemented, I would also like to see:
Repairs do NOT automatically happen. The base supply when an objective is taken would have to be increased by enough to allow for repairs to be made by the controlling server. Once the repairs are made, the “Revealed” condition on the inside of the objective activates.

If this were put in place…Portal Away…if you’re good enough to stay hidden from a group doing a sweep when you can’t stealth…you’ve earned it. Just realize you won’t be able to stealth, and neither will your allies if you portal them in without breaching a wall or gate.

Zephyra.4709:

Just some tips since people seem to have left their brains switched off…

• Ranger has access to “Sic Em” – it applies Revealed
• Engineer trait has access to Revealed debuff via traits
• Stealth Disruptor Trap exists. Start using it. But first, start using your brains.
• Most PU Mesmers don’t carry much condi-cleanse, or only have 1, therefore they are weak against conditions. Immobilize them to set up a burst, CC them etc… preferably AFTER you’ve applied Revealed to them to make it easier.
• Trapper builds via thief/ranger work well against a stealthed mesmer
• Turn your sound up/on; you can hear the enemy Mesmer’s skills (stealth) going on/off CD and may help you distinguish where exactly they are

Seriously guys, get it together.

This right here. The title of the post is “Solutions…” and these ARE THE SOLUTIONS. Anet already nerfed banner rezzing the lord because people screamed “Other players are better than me and it makes me lose!” Anyone complaining just hasn’t turned their brains on fully yet. New keeps- big effing deal. How long did it take to find all the cool hiding spots on the Alpine Borderlands? Heck, some players STILL don’t know all the mesmer hiding spots in Hills and Bay. And what’s that? You’re not using Stealth Disruptor Traps?!? You have a tool you’re not using and you’re complaining that you’re not using it?!? WHERE’S THE LOGIC IN THAT?!?!? “But I used all my supply!” Guess what Mr. and Mrs. Special Snowflake?!? Supply management is a battlefield tactic just as important as any other! Get off the “Participation Trophy” mentality, study the methods mentioned numerous times in this thread, and apply them as needed.

Sorry for the rant, but when I feel like some complaints are not valid I become R. Lee Ermy.

Sinbold just made me chuckle

Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209:

I get that its a tactic, and its a viable tactic…but its also unbalanced due to the never ending stealth that is becoming and will continue to become all the more prevalent in WvW.

Simple solution:
When an enclosed(walled) objective is captured. – Revealed is applied to all enemies in all areas inside the tower/keep/castle. Permanently(no timer like RI). (Stealth being disabled for all professions with access to it when inside an enemy controlled, fortified objective with no breaks(in walls or gates) for enemy access in the perimeter. This would not include camps or sentry positions, as they are not enclosed/fortified.)

When a gate or wall is breached, this effect is removed.

Ex #1: Bust a wall, stealth the group, CHARGE!

Ex #2: All 3 servers have a group inside Stonemist(or Hills or Bay or etc.). A wall and gate have been breached. All Stealth is working. Server 1 takes the Objective as the other 2 groups are fighting in the courtyard. The wall and gate are rebuilt. Servers 2 and 3 now lose their Stealth tools/skills. Hopefully your group is good enough to not have to rely on stealth alone to win.

If this were implemented, I would also like to see:
Repairs do NOT automatically happen. The base supply when an objective is taken would have to be increased by enough to allow for repairs to be made by the controlling server. Once the repairs are made, the “Revealed” condition on the inside of the objective activates.

If this were put in place…Portal Away…if you’re good enough to stay hidden from a group doing a sweep when you can’t stealth…you’ve earned it. Just realize you won’t be able to stealth, and neither will your allies if you portal them in without breaching a wall or gate.

To keep things balanced, which core functionalities would you remove from Ranger, Warrior, Elementalist, Revenant, Guardian, and Necromancer? I mean, we’re talking “fair” here, right? As in it’s “unfair that a mesmer can stealth inside a keep.” So if you’re taking away a core ability from one class, it’s only fair to take something away from other classes too, right? Do you see where this is going? There is no need to introduce class crippling mechanics against only one or two classes because some players refuse to use the tools given to them.

Johje Holan.4607:

The solution for Mesmers in keeps is to make Portal not able to go through intact walls.

Been saying it since launch but its not going to change. Anet loves their cheese. They just increased stealth – they make changes for PvP and PvE, they don’t care about how anything effects WvW.

Extreme long invisibility and a portal skill is just wrong. It’s insane that it’s still in the game.

Sinbold.8723:

There is no need to introduce class crippling mechanics against only one or two classes because some players refuse to use the tools given to them.

I totally agree with you on not crippling a class with a mechanic as the one suggested but really what tools?

We have two reliable reveals. Engineer has a reveal trait and we have the stealth disruption trap. Reverent and dragon hunter will also have reliable reveals but for the current game they dont count.

The trap which I know your going to point too requires 10 supply which a rather large amount and 9/10 if your flipping anything that is being defended, you will have no supply after flipping. Which might I add even if you do have the supply and detect a mesmer, they can blink & run away for 5 seconds and then resume stealthing. Then your back at square one.

The only realistic way to deal with stealth right now unless your an engi is aoe spam and hope your hitting the mesmer(s). Which frankly is unfun, and uninteresting combat that does nothing other than frustrate both parties.

Sinbold.8723:

To keep things balanced, which core functionalities would you remove from Ranger, Warrior, Elementalist, Revenant, Guardian, and Necromancer? I mean, we’re talking “fair” here, right? As in it’s “unfair that a mesmer can stealth inside a keep.” So if you’re taking away a core ability from one class, it’s only fair to take something away from other classes too, right? Do you see where this is going? There is no need to introduce class crippling mechanics against only one or two classes because some players refuse to use the tools given to them.

This has nothing to do with a need for across the board class-crippling. This limits 1 ability. Stealth. It doesn’t apply to Mesmers alone…Mesmers and Thieves being the most predominant in Stealth with Ranger a far distant 3rd. Notice also I said Mesmers should keep their Portals. This is to target a completely OP ability(and I play a Warrior or a Thief in WvW, and Stealth is only 1 tool in my Thief’s toolbox.) I can’t believe they censored [word]…even in leet speak spelling -defined as an array of weapons/resources available for a certain purpose …lol

I’m not sure you really read my post. I provided for a balance. Breach a wall or gate, get your stealth back. Victors of the objective decide not to repair the objective they have just taken? Keep stealth and its their own fault. While they are repairing, you can still stealth and get somewhere to hide, because when the repair is done, you get Revealed. Hide well and the repairing group isn’t thorough, you’re still there(and still have your portals). In the current game, get caught when the walls and gate auto-repair, I would hope you or your group is skilled enough to not have to rely on Stealth as their only path to victory, evasion, or escape.

I’m not trying to be snitty, and this is a general statement, not directed at any one person. If you have to rely on Stealth THAT much as a Mesmer or Thief. You really need to branch out and play more classes and understand strategy and group synergies in WvW a bit better. I run with groups in WvW that have no Thieves or Mesmers in them…and we do just fine.

Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209:

Sinbold.8723:

To keep things balanced, which core functionalities would you remove from Ranger, Warrior, Elementalist, Revenant, Guardian, and Necromancer? I mean, we’re talking “fair” here, right? As in it’s “unfair that a mesmer can stealth inside a keep.” So if you’re taking away a core ability from one class, it’s only fair to take something away from other classes too, right? Do you see where this is going? There is no need to introduce class crippling mechanics against only one or two classes because some players refuse to use the tools given to them.

This has nothing to do with a need for across the board class-crippling. This limits 1 ability. Stealth. It doesn’t apply to Mesmers alone…Mesmers and Thieves being the most predominant in Stealth with Ranger a far distant 3rd. Notice also I said Mesmers should keep their Portals. This is to target a completely OP ability(and I play a Warrior or a Thief in WvW, and Stealth is only 1 tool in my Thief’s toolbox.) I can’t believe they censored kitten n4l -defined as an array of resources available for a certain purpose …lol

I’m not sure you really read my post. I provided for a balance. Breach a wall or gate, get your stealth back. Victors of the objective decide not to repair the objective they have just taken? Keep stealth and its their own fault. While they are repairing, you can still stealth and get somewhere to hide, because when the repair is done, you get Revealed. Hide well and the repairing group isn’t thorough, you’re still there(and still have your portals). In the current game, get caught when the walls and gate auto-repair, I would hope you or your group is skilled enough to not have to rely on Stealth as their only path to victory, evasion, or escape.

I’m not trying to be snitty, and this is a general statement, not directed at any one person. If you have to rely on Stealth THAT much as a Mesmer or Thief. You really need to branch out and play more classes and understand strategy and group synergies in WvW a bit better. I run with groups in WvW that have no Thieves or Mesmers in them…and we do just fine.

When we are fighting to defend a keep we always send a couple of guys to take out the siege and minimally repair the wall to keep the players we killed from streaming back in. We can have the wall closed and still fight for a good 15 minutes.

Just because you get by just fine in a group with no thieves and mesmers doesn’t mean those classes deserve to fight at a huge disadvantage any time they are attacking a structure.

Eval.2371:

Sinbold.8723:

There is no need to introduce class crippling mechanics against only one or two classes because some players refuse to use the tools given to them.

I totally agree with you on not crippling a class with a mechanic as the one suggested but really what tools?

We have two reliable reveals. Engineer has a reveal trait and we have the stealth disruption trap. Reverent and dragon hunter will also have reliable reveals but for the current game they dont count.

The trap which I know your going to point too requires 10 supply which a rather large amount and 9/10 if your flipping anything that is being defended, you will have no supply after flipping. Which might I add even if you do have the supply and detect a mesmer, they can blink & run away for 5 seconds and then resume stealthing. Then your back at square one.

The only realistic way to deal with stealth right now unless your an engi is aoe spam and hope your hitting the mesmer(s). Which frankly is unfun, and uninteresting combat that does nothing other than frustrate both parties.

Stealth traps reveal players for 30 seconds, not 5.
If you can’t kill a revealed thief or mesmer in 30 seconds…..

Eval.2371:

I totally agree with you on not crippling a class with a mechanic as the one suggested but really what tools?

And I am cool with it too, if they just lower the potential for a “perma-stealth” situation. A longer cooldown on the stealth skills or something where there is a break in the stealth in order for someone to be seen if they don’t know how to hide well. Teh reveals we have a far from adequate, as you pointed out to deal with it in its current state.

I don’t have much faith that will happen…thus my suggestion…that’s all.

Puck.9612:

When we are fighting to defend a keep we always send a couple of guys to take out the siege and minimally repair the wall to keep the players we killed from streaming back in. We can have the wall closed and still fight for a good 15 minutes.

Just because you get by just fine in a group with no thieves and mesmers doesn’t mean those classes deserve to fight at a huge disadvantage any time they are attacking a structure.

Again, if losing your Stealth is a huge disadvantage, I’m not sure even my idea can overcome the lack of a diverse skill set and versatile application of said diverse skills.

Puck.9612:

Stealth traps reveal players for 30 seconds, not 5.
If you can’t kill a revealed thief or mesmer in 30 seconds…..

+1

Or Moa. I love watching moa’d thieves and mesmers.

The mesmer looks at you like “but but .. I’m one of your own!” haha

Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209:

Puck.9612:

When we are fighting to defend a keep we always send a couple of guys to take out the siege and minimally repair the wall to keep the players we killed from streaming back in. We can have the wall closed and still fight for a good 15 minutes.

Just because you get by just fine in a group with no thieves and mesmers doesn’t mean those classes deserve to fight at a huge disadvantage any time they are attacking a structure.

Again, if losing your Stealth is a huge disadvantage, I’m not sure even my idea can overcome the lack of a diverse skill set and versatile application of said diverse skills.

Run a regular glass thief build, bringing traits and skills that rely on stealth to survive, and go jump into a zerg fight without using stealth once. See how long you survive.
Considering most thieves only condi cleanse in their build comes from shadow arts you will pretty much get wrecked by the first condi that gets applied to you.

And don’t argue they can build to not use stealth. I know it’s possible, I’ve done it myself. But if your idea went through that means any stealth build would be completely useless in WvW because you could never jump into fights around towers or keeps. You would be destroying build diversity for several classes.

What would be interesting is if stealthed players could see other stealthed players. Then mesmers could counter eachother

Puck.9612:

Run a regular glass thief build, bringing traits and skills that rely on stealth to survive, and go jump into a zerg fight without using stealth once. See how long you survive.
Considering most thieves only condi cleanse in their build comes from shadow arts you will pretty much get wrecked by the first condi that gets applied to you.

And don’t argue they can build to not use stealth. I know it’s possible, I’ve done it myself. But if your idea went through that means any stealth build would be completely useless in WvW because you could never jump into fights around towers or keeps. You would be destroying build diversity for several classes.

I suppose it comes back to personal choice, I guess.

1. I would never run a glass thief in WvW. I think that is foolish.
2. Condi Clear is a problem…granted…but it is a problem that can be dealt with. (Sigils of Generosity and Purity are good for that…there’s that darn versatility again.)
3. By relying on Stealth so heavily, you limit your own build diversity. I can cause a whole lot of havok and mayhem with the skill slots that get ate up by a heavy Stealth build. I am speaking only of my Thief…i won’t play my Mesmer in WvW, by choice.
4. I can assure you that if they put into place what I suggested; I could play a very versatile Thief build that uses Stealth very effectively. I do it now, since I won’t play perma-stealth cheese builds.

Again, personal perspective and choice. Its ok if you need to play those builds.

Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209:

Puck.9612:

Run a regular glass thief build, bringing traits and skills that rely on stealth to survive, and go jump into a zerg fight without using stealth once. See how long you survive.
Considering most thieves only condi cleanse in their build comes from shadow arts you will pretty much get wrecked by the first condi that gets applied to you.

And don’t argue they can build to not use stealth. I know it’s possible, I’ve done it myself. But if your idea went through that means any stealth build would be completely useless in WvW because you could never jump into fights around towers or keeps. You would be destroying build diversity for several classes.

I suppose it comes back to personal choice, I guess.

1. I would never run a glass thief in WvW. I think that is foolish.
2. Condi Clear is a problem…granted…but it is a problem that can be dealt with. (Sigils of Generosity and Purity are good for that…there’s that darn versatility again.)
3. By relying on Stealth so heavily, you limit your own build diversity. I can cause a whole lot of havok and mayhem with the skill slots that get ate up by a heavy Stealth build. I am speaking only of my Thief…i won’t play my Mesmer in WvW, by choice.
4. I can assure you that if they put into place what I suggested; I could play a very versatile Thief build that uses Stealth very effectively. I do it now, since I won’t play perma-stealth cheese builds.

Again, personal perspective and choice. Its ok if you need to play those builds.

So basically what you’re saying is since you don’t run a stealth heavy build you are okay with them being nerfed into oblivion and everyone that does run them can go kitten themselves. All so you don’t have to drop a stealth trap.

Puck.9612:

So basically what you’re saying is since you don’t run a stealth heavy build you are okay with them being nerfed into oblivion and everyone that does run them can go kitten themselves. All so you don’t have to drop a stealth trap.

Not at all. I am in no way saying nerf it into oblivion. Stealth can be very useful. I am agreeing that it is currently OP on Mesmers, and to a point on Thieves. That’s what this thread is about…discussing solutions.

My suggestion is not a nerf…at all…I said nothing about changing anything about the skills. Only about where and when it can be used. Inside an enemy controlled fully repaired keep…which is actually, if you think about it, a very small portion of the WvW side of the game. That is a balancing limitation. Not a nerf.

Balancing limitations force creative use of existing options. I know that can be challenging to some who have come to reply on the ease of the OP Stealth availability. But with a little effort, this limitation would actually require minimal change for players who know their class and how to work in a group.

As someone else said, shouldn’t remove porting through walls because I sometimes port people inside that died and are running back (to garrison sieges for example). Granting the revealed debuff when inside a keep that has the righteous indignation seems like a good idea, (I’m a mesmer, so no bias)

Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209:

Puck.9612:

So basically what you’re saying is since you don’t run a stealth heavy build you are okay with them being nerfed into oblivion and everyone that does run them can go kitten themselves. All so you don’t have to drop a stealth trap.

Not at all. I am in no way saying nerf it into oblivion. Stealth can be very useful. I am agreeing that it is currently OP on Mesmers, and to a point on Thieves. That’s what this thread is about…discussing solutions.

My suggestion is not a nerf…at all…I said nothing about changing anything about the skills. Only about where and when it can be used. Inside an enemy controlled fully repaired keep…which is actually, if you think about it, a very small portion of the WvW side of the game. That is a balancing limitation. Not a nerf.

Balancing limitations force creative use of existing options. I know that can be challenging to some who have come to reply on the ease of the OP Stealth availability. But with a little effort, this limitation would actually require minimal change for players who know their class and how to work in a group.

It is absolutely a nerf. Not to a skill but to an entire play style.

That change would do nothing to combat the parts of WvW where stealth classes are actually strong (roaming) it would just serve to make them weaker in large scale fights (where they are already very weak).

PU needs to be toned down across the board, but completely breaking stealth classes in WvW isn’t the solution. Especially when there are already so many ways to deal with the problem you are complaining about.

If you can’t be bothered to sweep for a mesmer after you take an objective (because “it takes too long and wastes time”), then it’s your own fault if it flips. If the objective is important for your team, then you stay until it’s cleared.

Otherwise, if you are more concerned with the k-train and blobbing, do so.

Jayne.9251:

If you can’t be bothered to sweep for a mesmer after you take an objective (because “it takes too long and wastes time”), then it’s your own fault if it flips. If it was important to you, you’d sweep.

If you are more concerned with the k-train and blobbing, do so.

^ This. If they were really concerned they would leave someone to keep an eye on the keep while it upgrades.

Aren’t keeps also getting a lot more tricks and hazards in them too which won’t exactly make it easy for enemies to get through?

There is no problem with mesmers in keeps. You just need to stop leaving the objective right after taking it.

There’s a big difference to having a few people sweep for mesmers, which has been effective in the past, to the current state where we need 10-15 to sweep, hunt down, and kill them, to the future, where we will need everyone. It will just be to the point of ridiculousness. If you don’t think that’s terrible game mechanics, then I just can’t help you.

Spurnshadow.3678:

then I just can’t help you.

… lol, don’t say it. Just don’t.

RESIST!

Jayne.9251:

Spurnshadow.3678:

then I just can’t help you.

… lol, don’t say it. Just don’t.

RESIST!

Do it.

Just do it….

apharma.3741:

In current borderlands it’s not that much of a problem. You sweep inner and that’s extremely easy to sweep.

Outer is usually where the problem is but again, we’re getting big counters to stealth in HoT, are you just going to ignore free stealth traps for guardians which make up the backbone of WvW?

Additionally stealth traps will absolutely ruin a mesmers day or are you deliberately ignoring the tools ANet has specifically given you to deal with this?

Edit: If you made the argument that traps should only cost badges and supply then I’d be 100% in support of that.

Ok let me make it more clear. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsUUSDNCD78
What exactly are one guardian going to do, or even 10 guardians going to do when the messmer have several areas, several levels, and about 100 times bigger keep then we have now. If a stealth trap goes on on top of the keeps whilst we are looking in the middle, then we run up there IF we even see it, and when we are up there, the messmer (or thief by all means) have already left the area because it take us 5 minutes to get on top.

The fact that the keeps are HUGE, and have several levels, and as you can see there are no straight sight, there are hiding spots everywere. And spots you can stay in for weeks without being notices. Ok that was a little bit overdoing it, but my point is, those traps will do nothing unless we happen to stay close on it and as the keeps are now, there are no risk for a messmer, they can easy hide and only use stealth to move to another area or another level of the keep. The towers are even bigger then the keep we have today. And also them have several levels. They are a bit easier due to not as much room or as big, but will still be hard to manage to even reach a point were you pin the enemie in to a corner and then can use the traps and what not to get him.

Spurnshadow.3678:

There’s a big difference to having a few people sweep for mesmers, which has been effective in the past, to the current state where we need 10-15 to sweep, hunt down, and kill them, to the future, where we will need everyone. It will just be to the point of ridiculousness. If you don’t think that’s terrible game mechanics, then I just can’t help you.

Still don’t see any problem here. If you want to keep an objective, secure it.
It might put a bigger emphasis on defense, which is great.

Puck.9612:

It is absolutely a nerf. Not to a skill but to an entire play style.

That change would do nothing to combat the parts of WvW where stealth classes are actually strong (roaming) it would just serve to make them weaker in large scale fights (where they are already very weak).

PU needs to be toned down across the board, but completely breaking stealth classes in WvW isn’t the solution. Especially when there are already so many ways to deal with the problem you are complaining about.

That’s exactly why I said this…Stealth while roaming or in open field should be left alone. That is where Stealth needs to be the strongest…duh. Again…not a nerf. This does not completely break Stealth Classes…that’s a blanket generalization that adds a level of fallacy to your counter-point.

Remember…reading is fundamental…the only time you would lose the ability to Stealth is when you were in a keep/tower, and it flipped from your ownership to an opponents ownership. You know what, someone mentioned before…make it last the same as RI while we have instant wall/gate repairs…that would work too. The thing is you get revealed. You can’t just continually re-stealth. If you can stay hidden and alive through the RI…again, congratulations…you have more skill than smashing your Stealth skill buttons…Portal-Away…you’ve earned it…lol

And just so Puck, Jayne, and Fenrir know…we sweep a keep/tower after we take it, religiously…and we usually do leave people in keeps when we have the population playing to do this…but that is a server population issue. If we don’t have the man power to do that…then we sweep, and have to move on…since at times we are usually a 8-15 man group doing borderlands watch…which can sometimes keep us busy.

Mesmer Stealth is just too much. This is an idea to add some balance without going all the way to the nerf-gun and pulling the trigger.

A.Net has already fixed one or two stealth issues with mesmers and probably will fix them again. I have no problem with stealth but I think if a player is stealthed, they should not be able to stomp, etc. No skills should be able to be used. It is for one think avoiding the enemy and that is all stealth should be.

Stealth isn’t the problem since last patch, lol.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/clones-rally-people

Jayne.9251:

Stealth isn’t the problem since last patch, lol.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/clones-rally-people

That was fixed already….

Well drat. I was hoping to test it out

Jayne.9251:

If you can’t be bothered to sweep for a mesmer after you take an objective (because “it takes too long and wastes time”), then it’s your own fault if it flips. If the objective is important for your team, then you stay until it’s cleared.

Otherwise, if you are more concerned with the k-train and blobbing, do so.

Sweeping for Mesmers is just lame. And un-fun.

Nothing to do with k-training or blobbing. Its just not fun. Wasn’t that one of Anet’s mantras – something about “is it fun?”. Strange actually considering that they put so many “un-fun” mechanics in their game.

To each his own. I find it fun. Like playing hide and seek. Both ways — not just hiding, but also finding.

I’m also not lazy. If our team needs to keep an objective, I will go out of my way to help maintain it. Mind you, I’m not a big fan of blobbing/ktrains, so I don’t feel like I’m “missing out” when I take the time to do this.

Johje Holan.4607:

Jayne.9251:

If you can’t be bothered to sweep for a mesmer after you take an objective (because “it takes too long and wastes time”), then it’s your own fault if it flips. If the objective is important for your team, then you stay until it’s cleared.

Otherwise, if you are more concerned with the k-train and blobbing, do so.

Sweeping for Mesmers is just lame. And un-fun.

Nothing to do with k-training or blobbing. Its just not fun. Wasn’t that one of Anet’s mantras – something about “is it fun?”. Strange actually considering that they put so many “un-fun” mechanics in their game.

That has nothing to do with it- “fun” or not. If you’re not taking the time to secure your objective, it’s your own fault if you lose it. If you suspect a mesmer is hiding, you have a duty to send the RIGHT CLASSES to sweep, as mentioned earlier (trappers, etc.), and before the wall/gate goes down your commander needs to make sure those RIGHT CLASSES have supply for stealth traps on inner. Your commander doesn’t do that? Bad commander.

I main a mesmer in WvW and hide in gari, bay and hills 99% of the time they get taken. And guess what? Any time the conqueror has a group sweep, I eventually get found. And then the merry chase ensues, with the winner being dictated by the pursuer. If they have stealth disruptor traps (they just took the keep- there should be supply), and rangers and engis are sweeping, I’m either over the wall ASAP or I become a Heavy Loot Bag. If they don’t sweep (and this happens a lot), I portal a group in and we re-take the objective.

If you don’t want to do it because “it’s not fun”, you have no right to complain.

Sinbold.8723:

Zephyra.4709:

Just some tips since people seem to have left their brains switched off…

• Ranger has access to “Sic Em” – it applies Revealed
• Engineer trait has access to Revealed debuff via traits
• Stealth Disruptor Trap exists. Start using it. But first, start using your brains.
• Most PU Mesmers don’t carry much condi-cleanse, or only have 1, therefore they are weak against conditions. Immobilize them to set up a burst, CC them etc… preferably AFTER you’ve applied Revealed to them to make it easier.
• Trapper builds via thief/ranger work well against a stealthed mesmer
• Turn your sound up/on; you can hear the enemy Mesmer’s skills (stealth) going on/off CD and may help you distinguish where exactly they are

Seriously guys, get it together.

This right here. The title of the post is “Solutions…” and these ARE THE SOLUTIONS. Anet already nerfed banner rezzing the lord because people screamed “Other players are better than me and it makes me lose!” Anyone complaining just hasn’t turned their brains on fully yet. New keeps- big effing deal. How long did it take to find all the cool hiding spots on the Alpine Borderlands? Heck, some players STILL don’t know all the mesmer hiding spots in Hills and Bay. And what’s that? You’re not using Stealth Disruptor Traps?!? You have a tool you’re not using and you’re complaining that you’re not using it?!? WHERE’S THE LOGIC IN THAT?!?!? “But I used all my supply!” Guess what Mr. and Mrs. Special Snowflake?!? Supply management is a battlefield tactic just as important as any other! Get off the “Participation Trophy” mentality, study the methods mentioned numerous times in this thread, and apply them as needed.

Sorry for the rant, but when I feel like some complaints are not valid I become R. Lee Ermy.

How about we make mesmers stealth or portal ect… use supply just like the stealth disrupter… lol I thought so

Sinbold.8723:

Johje Holan.4607:

Jayne.9251:

If you can’t be bothered to sweep for a mesmer after you take an objective (because “it takes too long and wastes time”), then it’s your own fault if it flips. If the objective is important for your team, then you stay until it’s cleared.

Otherwise, if you are more concerned with the k-train and blobbing, do so.

Sweeping for Mesmers is just lame. And un-fun.

Nothing to do with k-training or blobbing. Its just not fun. Wasn’t that one of Anet’s mantras – something about “is it fun?”. Strange actually considering that they put so many “un-fun” mechanics in their game.

That has nothing to do with it- “fun” or not. If you’re not taking the time to secure your objective, it’s your own fault if you lose it. If you suspect a mesmer is hiding, you have a duty to send the RIGHT CLASSES to sweep, as mentioned earlier (trappers, etc.), and before the wall/gate goes down your commander needs to make sure those RIGHT CLASSES have supply for stealth traps on inner. Your commander doesn’t do that? Bad commander.

I main a mesmer in WvW and hide in gari, bay and hills 99% of the time they get taken. And guess what? Any time the conqueror has a group sweep, I eventually get found. And then the merry chase ensues, with the winner being dictated by the pursuer. If they have stealth disruptor traps (they just took the keep- there should be supply), and rangers and engis are sweeping, I’m either over the wall ASAP or I become a Heavy Loot Bag. If they don’t sweep (and this happens a lot), I portal a group in and we re-take the objective.

If you don’t want to do it because “it’s not fun”, you have no right to complain.

Fun has everything to do with it. This is a game. Not a job. Or a duty. A game. And people play games for fun.

Also, you know all the hacks in this game. Or the accusations of glitching into keeps we see people complaining about. How many do you think were due to a Mes hiding? I’d wager an awful lot. So we end up with people kittened off because they think the game is full of hackers and cheaters. When all that’s happening is a Mes is hiding.

If you find sweeping for Mesmers fun then fine. I would bet though that most people don’t.

Would all you people who like to play hide and seek really be that mad if it disappeared? I mean if it weren’t in the game to begin with no one would be calling for a class that could hide in a keep and then “open the door” from the inside and let their army in. In fact if it weren’t in the game to begin with and someone suggested it they would be flamed so hard for suggesting something so stupid.

Johje Holan.4607:

Fun has everything to do with it. This is a game. Not a job. Or a duty. A game. And people play games for fun.
.

If you don’t find it fun, here’s a novel idea: Don’t do it!

But don’t complain if your objectives flip either.

It really is your choice.

Here, I’ll give you a real-world analogy: If you don’t lock your car when you leave it, you are at risk of having it stolen. Is locking your car any fun? Well, not really. But do you value your car, is it important for you and your overall “fun”… well yes.

What you’re doing is complaining about having to lock your car. Thieves should just be nice and not touch if because it’s too much of a hassle to lock it.

Jayne.9251:

Johje Holan.4607:

Fun has everything to do with it. This is a game. Not a job. Or a duty. A game. And people play games for fun.
.

If you don’t find it fun, here’s a novel idea: Don’t do it!

But don’t complain if your objectives flip either.

It really is your choice.

Here, I’ll give you a real-world analogy: If you don’t lock your car when you leave it, you are at risk of having it stolen. Is locking your car any fun? Well, not really. But do you value your car, is it important for you and your overall “fun”… well yes.

What you’re doing is complaining about having to lock your car. Thieves should just be nice and not touch if because it’s too much of a hassle to lock it.

I hate thieves in real life almost as much as I hate them in game . And dang straight they shouldn’t touch my car whether its locked or unlocked.

But on topic, I’m advocating for a change to the rules that I think will make the game better overall. I’ve got an analogy too.

Laws change. Something that was legal, permissible or allowed in the past is no longer allowed. Oftentimes it is because people advocate for the change.

So in the past, X was allowed. Now its not. Some people will be upset that they can no longer legally do X. But overall the lack of people doing X makes society better.

I believe that allowing Mesmers to port people through intact walls is a bad mechanic. And I am advocating for Anet to change it.

I’ve been suggesting it since launch. But I gave up because it was clear that Anet likes it.

But now with the new BL maps with the huge keeps that will be nigh impossible to sweep for Mesmers, I think there is a chance to get Anet to change their minds.

I’ve seen videos of the new keeps, with the exception of earth keep all of the inner don’t look like they have much to hide in. Sweeping inner will be easy.

All keeps have a bunch of traps and other things that slow down aggressors or rather people who don’t own it. This will help when chasing hidden thieves and mesmers.

It also looks like a lot of the keeps will have choke points you have to go past to get from one area to another as well as having very good vantage points for people to track movements from. Trap the chokes and hunting hidden players will be a lot easier than it currently is.

Additionally if really needed they can make traps be triggered by stealth end players if it really is too much but I really don’t think this is going to be a problem to people playing for keeps. Pun intended.

Jayne.9251:

Johje Holan.4607:

Fun has everything to do with it. This is a game. Not a job. Or a duty. A game. And people play games for fun.
.

If you don’t find it fun, here’s a novel idea: Don’t do it!

But don’t complain if your objectives flip either.

It really is your choice.

Here, I’ll give you a real-world analogy: If you don’t lock your car when you leave it, you are at risk of having it stolen. Is locking your car any fun? Well, not really. But do you value your car, is it important for you and your overall “fun”… well yes.

What you’re doing is complaining about having to lock your car. Thieves should just be nice and not touch if because it’s too much of a hassle to lock it.

The correct analogy would be having to sit in your car despite having locked it, then putting on a blindfold and ear muffs, and if a thief breaks in he brings 20 friends who persuade you to hand over the keys. The tower or keep has gates, they are locked.

What’s being complained about is despite locking the car and spending time looking around the area, the thief was in the car all along and you couldn’t find them, or if you did you didn’t bring enough people to remove him, and he stole your car.

Having to use 10-15 people to sweep isn’t fun, and in less populated servers that’s three times the amount of people you have anyway.

After a while, rather than spend 20 minutes not finding the stealthed mesmer out of your hour of gaming time, people would rather do something they find even vaguelt rewarding, like, for instance, fighting other players.

Not everyone plays wvw 24/7 and thinks nothing of hunting mesmers for 2-3 hours at a time.

Notsoperky.4291:

Jayne.9251:

Johje Holan.4607:

Fun has everything to do with it. This is a game. Not a job. Or a duty. A game. And people play games for fun.
.

If you don’t find it fun, here’s a novel idea: Don’t do it!

But don’t complain if your objectives flip either.

It really is your choice.

Here, I’ll give you a real-world analogy: If you don’t lock your car when you leave it, you are at risk of having it stolen. Is locking your car any fun? Well, not really. But do you value your car, is it important for you and your overall “fun”… well yes.

What you’re doing is complaining about having to lock your car. Thieves should just be nice and not touch if because it’s too much of a hassle to lock it.

The correct analogy would be having to sit in your car despite having locked it, then putting on a blindfold and ear muffs, and if a thief breaks in he brings 20 friends who persuade you to hand over the keys. The tower or keep has gates, they are locked.

What’s being complained about is despite locking the car and spending time looking around the area, the thief was in the car all along and you couldn’t find them, or if you did you didn’t bring enough people to remove him, and he stole your car.

Having to use 10-15 people to sweep isn’t fun, and in less populated servers that’s three times the amount of people you have anyway.

After a while, rather than spend 20 minutes not finding the stealthed mesmer out of your hour of gaming time, people would rather do something they find even vaguelt rewarding, like, for instance, fighting other players.

Not everyone plays wvw 24/7 and thinks nothing of hunting mesmers for 2-3 hours at a time .

I will quote what a game director from a huge mmo game i play say about Arena net: stealth-risk—reward.

Game Director, " It Is Unbelievable How Broken-Poorly Design Company- Arena Net Stealth Concept Is. Basically A Stealth Player Can Avoid All Detections and All Risks And Yet Somehow… Still Be Rewarded Just As A Non Stealth Player Who Risks Everything "

That is all

Notsoperky.4291:

Jayne.9251:

Johje Holan.4607:

Fun has everything to do with it. This is a game. Not a job. Or a duty. A game. And people play games for fun.
.

If you don’t find it fun, here’s a novel idea: Don’t do it!

But don’t complain if your objectives flip either.

It really is your choice.

Here, I’ll give you a real-world analogy: If you don’t lock your car when you leave it, you are at risk of having it stolen. Is locking your car any fun? Well, not really. But do you value your car, is it important for you and your overall “fun”… well yes.

What you’re doing is complaining about having to lock your car. Thieves should just be nice and not touch if because it’s too much of a hassle to lock it.

The correct analogy would be having to sit in your car despite having locked it, then putting on a blindfold and ear muffs, and if a thief breaks in he brings 20 friends who persuade you to hand over the keys. The tower or keep has gates, they are locked.

What’s being complained about is despite locking the car and spending time looking around the area, the thief was in the car all along and you couldn’t find them, or if you did you didn’t bring enough people to remove him, and he stole your car.

Having to use 10-15 people to sweep isn’t fun, and in less populated servers that’s three times the amount of people you have anyway.

After a while, rather than spend 20 minutes not finding the stealthed mesmer out of your hour of gaming time, people would rather do something they find even vaguelt rewarding, like, for instance, fighting other players.

Not everyone plays wvw 24/7 and thinks nothing of hunting mesmers for 2-3 hours at a time.

Any time I struggle with countering a class in WvW, I create that class, learn its weaknesses and strengths, then drive a stake into their little hearts. Stealth classes are counterable.

Please no EZ mode. If I can do it, so can you!

We even do it while outmanned. You’re SFR right? You have the most players 24/7 of all servers, lol. Sounds like too many are lazy. or, I hate to say it, it’s a L2P issue.