Guild Wars 2

The eotm map is actually a great map to play but it has been hijacked by the pve/pvd karma train. People complain when they meet a proper fight or a defended objective… I have actually seen commanders refuse to engage a defended place and turn away from fights.

Any case, anyone with a bit of pvp spirit complains about the way the game is played on eotm. So how do we solve this mess?

It is actually quite easy…. think why does this not happen so much on borderlands? The borderland maps are designed better than eotm and ebg for this kind of behaviour. I think the solution is that you need to make eotm more rewarding for defense.

To do this you need to make the points count for something…. that way it becomes beneficial to defend.

so my solution is to give a prize for the side that scores the most points but the prize needs to be worth more than what can be gained from pvd farming. This needs careful thought because you need to balance the reward from capturing something with the reward from gaining the most points by defending your assets… we don’t want to turn things into a turtle game – a balance must be struck.

My idea off the top of my head would be for the winning team to receive a single bolt of damask. It is not too much of a prize but it is something worth fighting for.

I think they should put it in WvW proper for a week and see what happens.

I have been thinking… What if:

they put counters, each champ you kill – 1 counter, each keep you capture – x amount of exp is stored in pool, each karma rewarding event is stored also;
and when/if your team wins, you get 100% of your rewards, finish second and you get 75%, finish third and you get 50%.

e.g. you killed 50 champs (50 champ bags stored) captured 10 keeps (100 000 exp stored, 10 000 karma stored), you finished third and you get 25 bags, 50 000 exp and 5000 karma.

the rewards would be given in the end of the ’’matchup’’ but I suppose it would be better for a matchup to last for 1hour or 1.5 hours instead of 3.

Don’t think it’ll happen. An anet dev once said that they have a very hard time tracking and rewarding defense which is why defense objectives give less rewards. As you probably may know, they don’t have a good system for contesting structures too since one tap makes a structure contested and triggers the defense reward. As it is now, when your side gets contested in edge of the mists, spending 10 supply to repair a wall and doing nothing else already gives a gold defense reward for the 3 minute defense events. Until they figure out how to track defense (may not happen soon or ever), they likely will not increase rewards. As far as actually giving a reward for winning, I think it has to be contribution based somehow. Can’t just give a reward for people who afk’d half the match or did nothing useful. As high as the eotm rewards already are, I don’t currently see a useful reward for winning eotm.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

The eotm map is actually a great map to play but it has been hijacked by the pve/pvd karma train. People complain when they meet a proper fight or a defended objective… I have actually seen commanders refuse to engage a defended place and turn away from fights.

Really?
It’s one long linear series of choke points over an instadeath fall, severely limiting class/build/group diversity (need moar guardianz foar dem staboz! GWEN is already meta in WvW, in EotM it’s even worse).
It’s full of dungeon level mobs that hit harder than players with blanket aoes everywhere and have huge health pools and fast respawn times.
It’s full of gimmicks which unbalance fights. Commanders would be pretty insane to attack a fully sieged and defended frostreach keep, for example (far too easy to make that place into a killbox farm).

Any case, anyone with a bit of pvp spirit complains about the way the game is played on eotm. So how do we solve this mess?

It is actually quite easy…. think why does this not happen so much on borderlands? The borderland maps are designed better than eotm and ebg for this kind of behaviour. I think the solution is that you need to make eotm more rewarding for defense.

The differences are huge. Map layout, match length, and imbalanced mechanics make EotM a bad place for anyone who enjoys strategic large scale pvp. The map would need a ground up redesign to be anything other than a zerging in circles game where guild groups can blow off steam by facerolling unorganized pve players.

To do this you need to make the points count for something…. that way it becomes beneficial to defend.

so my solution is to give a prize for the side that scores the most points but the prize needs to be worth more than what can be gained from pvd farming. This needs careful thought because you need to balance the reward from capturing something with the reward from gaining the most points by defending your assets… we don’t want to turn things into a turtle game – a balance must be struck.

My idea off the top of my head would be for the winning team to receive a single bolt of damask. It is not too much of a prize but it is something worth fighting for.

How many people are really going to coordinate at the level required to defend against full map blobs in a 3 hour match when the players are all randoms from random servers? People don’t even seem to be able to divide into groups of ~10 to do the boss rush in the pavillion, I’m not sure they would have much success running a 3 hour map defense.

No feeling of community = no one cares about winning or losing. That’s why EoTM is a karma train.

My idea is you get one extra point for each structure you hold on a tick that counts every 10 minutes….

so for example… you get 1 point for taking a structure… you get 2 points every 10 minutes for holding a structure.

Which ever team has the most points after 3 hours… each player who has been in the matchup for 1 hour or more wins a bolt of damask. This can be monitored by adding a resettable achievement that gives you one tick every hour. You get a bolt of damask if your team wins and you have a tick. You could offer lesser rewards if you have 2 ticks or 3 ticks.

It would not be as difficult as you think to implement. It is basically taking the same model of wvw and applying the point structure with a slight modification to eotm.

lol the arrowcart-PVPers make qq cause alooooot more people play eotm than wvw

man – wake up – you and people like you made wvw a boring place and people dont wanna play it like this anymore

defending kills the fun – just fight when meet each other in open field^^

To get a big score in EOTM you have to cap as fast as possible, it give more point to cap than def something
If you want to win, def is useless
So yea, just karmatrain and if you see someone attack him

Imho the EotM map is potentially the best WvW map out there. The possibilities for both attacking and defending are far superior to the borderlands and EB.

The fact it has been turned into karmatrain heaven shouldn’t detract from what it could be.

The veteran guards and champions aren’t the pushover they are in WvW and the keeps/towers are far more defensible, these aspects alone should be incorporated into WvW to improve gameplay.

Romek.4201:

lol the arrowcart-PVPers make qq cause alooooot more people play eotm than wvw

man – wake up – you and people like you made wvw a boring place and people dont wanna play it like this anymore

defending kills the fun – just fight when meet each other in open field^^

Don’t talk wet… eotm at the moment is one big pvd karma train that avoids fights and if they see an ac they run away. Adding a little defense and making teams work for taking a structure instead of just banging on an undefended door… will add fun to the map. You will get those willing to try and take the structure with other siege like the game is intended and you will get some who will avoid anything too difficult and go and blob fight in the open field.

The only real pvp in this game is by solo and small group roamers on the borderlands.

Eotm atm is just a karma and xp train farming ground, nothing else. zergs are avoiding other zergs so they can farm in peace. it is a wvw map with the lowest number of the 80 lvl players. its a nature of mixing servers aka megaserver where organization fails.
since boss trains in pve were nerfed, many of those farmers turned to Eotm. and so on…

It’s a karma train because FR is a joke and BL isn’t much better, OG has the numbers to dominate 80% of the maps and there’s no randomness to who gets assigned to which side each week.

SO whichever servers get lucky and has OG really doesn’t have anyone to fight because there’s almost no rewards for defending. Hence the 70-90man zerg mindlessly dominating the zone.

There are a few exceptions to this if you get lucky and get a commander who knows how to win outnumbered but that heavily relies on the zerg he has with him.

tichai.4351:

The veteran guards and champions aren’t the pushover they are in WvW and the keeps/towers are far more defensible, these aspects alone should be incorporated into WvW to improve gameplay.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels this way. Do you know how awesome it’d be for the keep and tower guards to actually be a threat to a zerg? I’ve seen zergs CRUMBLE to the Kodan of the blue keep in EotM just because of those Ice Bows. Imagine if all the veterans and champions of the main maps had that kind of power behind them…I get goosebumps thinking about it.

RyuDragnier.9476:

tichai.4351:

The veteran guards and champions aren’t the pushover they are in WvW and the keeps/towers are far more defensible, these aspects alone should be incorporated into WvW to improve gameplay.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels this way. Do you know how awesome it’d be for the keep and tower guards to actually be a threat to a zerg? I’ve seen zergs CRUMBLE to the Kodan of the blue keep in EotM just because of those Ice Bows. Imagine if all the veterans and champions of the main maps had that kind of power behind them…I get goosebumps thinking about it.

I couldn’t agree more… I don’t like that anyone can solo a camp, defeating 5 or 6 guards (at the same time) should be more difficult… and make them all “linked” so you can’t pull just one guard, or two guards off to the side to kill them while the others stand and pick their noses!

Have them “call for help” and any NPC close enough to receive “/say chat” should respond to assist!

Du Marque de Tarnished Coast

You have no idea how much fun it is trolling a zerg with 5-6 organised Necromancers.