Guild Wars 2

Its apparent that WvW rewards need adjusting. Both physically and the ‘feeling’ of being rewarded such as taking a fully upgraded garrison.

My suggestion is to make more use of WXP consumables or badges of honor. I know the discussion has been there in the past to bring in a vendor that would allow us to buy various things with badges but we haven’t really heard anything about that in a year or so. Badges could also be dropped more frequently by killed played and a vendor that allows people to directly buy the WXP consumables could possibly work as well.

Here is a list of WXP consumables:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_Experience#WXP_consumables

This would directly impact both WvW rank and rewards. Taking a fully upgraded T3 Garrison could reward higher amounts of WXP consumables such as Swigs or Jugs. In addition to that, players could also drop the consumables (not just drops and thimbles but also tastes of WXP in addition to loot) to make fighting guilds feel more rewarded.

I’m open to suggestions, possible exploits, the cons, etc. of such idea.

Problem is when you start discussing rewards in WvW, you’re walking a very thin line between fighting for fun or karma training. Give people more reward for taking keeps and you’ll see an increase in karma training. It doesnt take much to upset the balance.

I would settle for the simple solution of getting more cash when opening WvW lootbags and increase the chance of players dropping several bags.

Dawdler.8521:

Problem is when you start discussing rewards in WvW, you’re walking a very thin line between fighting for fun or karma training. Give people more reward for taking keeps and you’ll see an increase in karma training. It doesnt take much to upset the balance.

I would settle for the simple solution of getting more cash when opening WvW lootbags and increase the chance of players dropping several bags.

This is definitely something that I took into account. Tweaking rewards shouldn’t just be a buff across the board. EOTM would definitely need some adjusting. Lessen the WXP from capturing towers, keeps, and not allow higher tier consumables to drop. I’m not entirely sure how hard that would be to adjust the two different since the basis for both EOTM and normal WvW are the same.

Its a thin line indeed though. I’m just throwing the idea around to see what we could possibly do to make players feel like they spent their time well on top of having the normal fun they do.

From the Golem Rush event, it’s clear they have little to no interest in WvW. So why would they risk disruptions to their economy (which affects PvE!) for the benefit of WvW players?

Despite the lack of transparency and the one recently failed event, I don’t think Anet has just given up on WvW. They simply can’t. While its apparent that WvW numbers are low, they are still numbers that I’m sure Anet is looking into. With HoT on the horizon, nothing else is getting attention at this point really and its been that way for about a year now. That doesn’t mean they don’t care though.

Blackarps.1974:

Despite the lack of transparency and the one recently failed event, I don’t think Anet has just given up on WvW. They simply can’t. While its apparent that WvW numbers are low, they are still numbers that I’m sure Anet is looking into. With HoT on the horizon, nothing else is getting attention at this point really and its been that way for about a year now. That doesn’t mean they don’t care though.

One failed event? Seriously? You don’t remember the commander tag color debacle? What about “ruining my game mode?” Or the fail of borderlands ruins that led directly to the EotM fail, that leads to the (almost certainly fail) HoT BL? And we’ve always had the total lack regard for WvW when it comes to balance. Don’t forget the inaction when it comes to hackers/exploiters/trolls — most spectacularly seen during golem week. What about the population/coverage problem that has never been addressed? Remember the permanent no-white swords announcement? Here’s a small one, but one that points to the amount of effort Anet puts into WvW: the failed QL bridge fix.

Oh yeah, remember “no one plays only WvW?”

But of course, you’re “sure Anet’s looking into it” right?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Blackarps.1974:

Despite the lack of transparency and the one recently failed event, I don’t think Anet has just given up on WvW. They simply can’t. While its apparent that WvW numbers are low, they are still numbers that I’m sure Anet is looking into. With HoT on the horizon, nothing else is getting attention at this point really and its been that way for about a year now. That doesn’t mean they don’t care though.

One failed event? Seriously? You don’t remember the commander tag color debacle? What about “ruining my game mode?” Or the fail of borderlands ruins that led directly to the EotM fail, that leads to the (almost certainly fail) HoT BL? And we’ve always had the total lack regard for WvW when it comes to balance. Don’t forget the inaction when it comes to hackers/exploiters/trolls — most spectacularly seen during golem week. What about the population/coverage problem that has never been addressed? Remember the permanent no-white swords announcement? Here’s a small one, but one that points to the amount of effort Anet puts into WvW: the failed QL bridge fix.

Oh yeah, remember “no one plays only WvW?”

But of course, you’re “sure Anet’s looking into it” right?

The commander tag wasn’t an event and was literally corrected in 2 days. EoTM was meant to do well but you can’t always predict the exact outcome of something so large. When it comes to balance in WvW I think its mostly because Anet doesn’t have the numbers or skillful players (no offense Anet, but compared to the WvW guilds, we know they are more skillful because they have more time than you to play) to test out multiple 20v20/30v30/etc fights the way it happens on live servers. The little changes like PPK scoring and white sword changes are testing the waters. They aren’t intended to be the greatest thing to come to WvW. Its their way of seeing what works and what doesn’t. What people like and what they don’t. As far as the population issue, I would like for you to look at the front page of this forum and read that a change is coming tomorrow for that.

I know you’re upset. I am too. I want WvW to grow and be much better than it is now or has been in the past.

High rewards is one of the things that dumbified eotm, if u want rewards Anet need 1st to change how redundancy train also works in wvw, own a castle on mist should be important and fancy to any guild, thus opening more viable “guild cummunity” rewards other than copper and badges, it is the entire wvw model that is at flaw.

Blackarps.1974:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Blackarps.1974:

Despite the lack of transparency and the one recently failed event, I don’t think Anet has just given up on WvW. They simply can’t. While its apparent that WvW numbers are low, they are still numbers that I’m sure Anet is looking into. With HoT on the horizon, nothing else is getting attention at this point really and its been that way for about a year now. That doesn’t mean they don’t care though.

One failed event? Seriously? You don’t remember the commander tag color debacle? What about “ruining my game mode?” Or the fail of borderlands ruins that led directly to the EotM fail, that leads to the (almost certainly fail) HoT BL? And we’ve always had the total lack regard for WvW when it comes to balance. Don’t forget the inaction when it comes to hackers/exploiters/trolls — most spectacularly seen during golem week. What about the population/coverage problem that has never been addressed? Remember the permanent no-white swords announcement? Here’s a small one, but one that points to the amount of effort Anet puts into WvW: the failed QL bridge fix.

Oh yeah, remember “no one plays only WvW?”

But of course, you’re “sure Anet’s looking into it” right?

The commander tag wasn’t an event and was literally corrected in 2 days. EoTM was meant to do well but you can’t always predict the exact outcome of something so large. When it comes to balance in WvW I think its mostly because Anet doesn’t have the numbers or skillful players (no offense Anet, but compared to the WvW guilds, we know they are more skillful because they have more time than you to play) to test out multiple 20v20/30v30/etc fights the way it happens on live servers. The little changes like PPK scoring and white sword changes are testing the waters. They aren’t intended to be the greatest thing to come to WvW. Its their way of seeing what works and what doesn’t. What people like and what they don’t. As far as the population issue, I would like for you to look at the front page of this forum and read that a change is coming tomorrow for that.

I know you’re upset. I am too. I want WvW to grow and be much better than it is now or has been in the past.

• Commander tag was only changed after MASSIVE outrage in the forums, both WvW and PvE.
• They have explicitly stated that “WvW is supposed to be unbalanced.”
• White swords were originally announced to be a permanent change. It was only changed to a “test” after MASSIVE outrage in the forums.

The best way to balance rewards versus mindless karmatrain is to make the rewards WvW focused. That way, the farmers from PvE will have absolutely no reason at all to farm in WvW and at the same time WvW:ers get rewards they can actively use in the form of siege and whatnot. Yes, WvW:ers will suffer on the PvE end as well, but you can’t have the cake and eat it.

Aeolus, I think its more about leveling, not the rewards. Let’s say it is about rewards though. This is why I proposed Anet also looks into the amount of WXP you get from objectives in EOTM. I don’t think it would be too hard to adjust their values without affecting the normal WvW maps.

Lord Kuru, you’re actually helping my case by outlining that things were fixed/changed. They did listen because if they didn’t, none of your points would be valid.

splatticus, I agree 100% and that’s why I wanted to propose this idea. I feel like the actual WvW players don’t get rewarded enough for their actions. The feeling of taking a fully upgraded structure just isn’t good enough. The same goes for wiping an entire zerg. Yeah you get physical rewards like loot but I don’t feel like the satisfaction or physical part of rewards is really there.

In addition, I’d like to also mention that I’m not here to make WvW players rich. That’s not my intention whatsoever. My intention is to reward those who really put in the effort to win while also keeping it balanced and not farmable. My idea is simple and I want to not only get feedback but allow us to get a real discussion going on how Anet could change the reward system.

All rewards in wvw and EOTM should be based around killing players.

Getting rewards for caps allows k-trains to form.

Even last night in EOTM, BL was opening walls for OG. It’s going too far now. Single guilds are commanding all 3 teams and avoiding each other on purpose. Looks a lot like map fixing.

Blackarps.1974:

(…)

In addition, I’d like to also mention that I’m not here to make WvW players rich. That’s not my intention whatsoever. My intention is to reward those who really put in the effort to win while also keeping it balanced and not farmable. My idea is simple and I want to not only get feedback but allow us to get a real discussion going on how Anet could change the reward system.

I dont know what to say then, game will never(hardly will) reward players that were/are dedicated to WvW and their guild, nor even reward guilds, u migh have some unlock stuff to use in battle via new houses with research points in your GH but those will make game more easy and casual, so keeping it balanced and not farmable will be impossible.
I know players that are t dedicated to the game and their guild/server efficiency and that is not rewarded by some fight or copper gain while in fight that imo is looking in a very limited way.

Anet needs to make castles and towers more important (more fancyness), give guilds a true objective to hold and desirable to conquer, something attainable over time or desirable for the guild and pugs(lesser reward for pugs and only in events where they helped at castle defense).

I think what we need to think is what the importance of reward and directed o whom? .. not the quantity of something basic and useless.

Paulie.6215:

All rewards in wvw and EOTM should be based around killing players.

Getting rewards for caps allows k-trains to form.

Even last night in EOTM, BL was opening walls for OG. It’s going too far now. Single guilds are commanding all 3 teams and avoiding each other on purpose. Looks a lot like map fixing.

Just move EotM to PvE where it belongs. Problem solved.

Paulie.6215:

All rewards in wvw and EOTM should be based around killing players.

I assume you mean killing the characters of players rather than the actual players as I’m sure killing people is generally frowned upon;)

This however would make both WvW and EotM far more coverage based than it already is.
In EU this would certainly kill EotM entirely as whichever colour has SFR would just blob all opposition if that was the only way to get rewards making it pointless for the opposition to even go to EotM.
Making all WvW rewards only kill based would ultimately destroy WvW as it would just become blob vs blob and if your server is out blobbed you get no rewards which means people either leave the server or stop playing. Eventually the biggest blob server would run out of people to fight -> no fight = no reward = stop playing.

A better solution would be to remove WXP rewards for EotM.
Introduce a WvW reward track like the PvP ones.
Use WXP ranks earned after buying all WvW abilities to be used to advance on these tracks.
Improve WXP rewards for defending objectives & repairs to encourage people to carry out these activities, making defending more rewarding than capping may discourage the sort of trains you had during golem rush week.
Remove WXP rewards for building siege (otherwise people might build troll siege to earn WXP).

Blackarps.1974:

Its apparent that WvW rewards need adjusting. Both physically and the ‘feeling’ of being rewarded such as taking a fully upgraded garrison.

My suggestion is to make more use of WXP consumables or badges of honor. I know the discussion has been there in the past to bring in a vendor that would allow us to buy various things with badges but we haven’t really heard anything about that in a year or so. Badges could also be dropped more frequently by killed played and a vendor that allows people to directly buy the WXP consumables could possibly work as well.

Here is a list of WXP consumables:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_Experience#WXP_consumables

This would directly impact both WvW rank and rewards. Taking a fully upgraded T3 Garrison could reward higher amounts of WXP consumables such as Swigs or Jugs. In addition to that, players could also drop the consumables (not just drops and thimbles but also tastes of WXP in addition to loot) to make fighting guilds feel more rewarded.

I’m open to suggestions, possible exploits, the cons, etc. of such idea.

For comparison purposses, for about 4 hours investment in SW I come out on average with about 300 gold worth of stuff and mats total. Sometimes less, sometimes more, but around there.

But I disagree with you about it being for taking a T3 gari for example. I would go further, taking a T3 gari while defenders map is qued and no GVGs are going on the map, that is where the rewards should come in, same for EB and keeps.

My reason is that it is too easy to roll over any T3 structure, gari and EB keeps included while k-training on an almost empty map. Doing that should in give players a reward debuff I think, to make things more equal.