Guild Wars 2

Nothing is more cowardly or shows what is really wrong with wvw than when a mega blob spawn camps its opponents on a Thursday night when they are leading by 200K and 300K. Darkhaven should be ashamed of themselves and any guild that allows their members to build all sorts of siege and spawn camp.

This is just one screen shot.

Take the back route? There are other exits from the spawn for exactly this reason. Being spawn camped blows but if people do something else for 10minutes or sneak around them they’ll get bored and leave. Don’t keep feeding them bags and they won’t hang around.

Tried it, they have people watching too. They have trebs facing spawn too. I partied one and his answer was to go to the eotm. They don’t even let you duel fairly. The bali hits you if you fight them. They have so much siege facing spawn too funny so most people left the map. WvW EB is dead because of this.

I’m in this match (Sorrow’s Furnace) and even if you left from the side you might be take a camp before you get killed by a zerg.
My play time this week has been going to a map and being the only one from my server on it or outnumbered me and 5 or so others did take our garri back the other day but as soon as we did we had 30 or so Dh come and take it back so yeah even if you get out of spawn what are you supposed to do.

Yeah it’s crazy. We transferred to FC this week and focus on EB. We are trying to show some presence and leadership in EB during NA prime and a bit later so more numbers show up for us. I think anyone left on WvW that comes on is hardcore. But we try to hold our corner for as long as possible and then just cap the paper stuff as available. If DH has anywhere near our numbers they get wrecked then the hammer train and blob is called. Sad actually. But blobs lead to weak players on small scale and that is DH from what I see on the whole. I don’t respect spawn campers or siege spawn campers. I wish SF would come out more and we could at least both focus on DH and make a collective difference. It would be more fun to not have to deal with blob campers.

Well there are not many players left on SF I think almost every wvw guild is now gone and many players have quit or transferred so SF doing anything is I don’t even know at this point. All I hope is next reset is better because if SF has to keep going through match ups like this I have no idea if any wvw players will be left on the server.

Like I said, it happens unfortunately. I’ve done pretty much nothing but WvW for well over a year now, I’ve seen it all. I wasn’t around for beta or anything like that but I think I can confidently say I’ve seen a lot come and go in the mists. Spawn camping sucks whether you’re on the giving or receiving end it doesn’t matter. It sucks being farmed, it kills your morale and it makes you angry. It sucks doing the farming because it’s fun for about 10 minutes before you want an actual challenge but there’s no one to fight because your server blobs too much. It’ll subside eventually but for now you’ll have to either find something else to do or get crafty and find a way to fight back. Get on a Thief, find a weird place to build siege and fight fire with fire or just keep trying to get past them until you manage and go tap their keep or something to make them paranoid.

WvW isn’t dead but it’s not what it used to be that’s for sure. New PvE content comes out and a lot of people will flock to it to get their achievements, loot and coin. Things will be pretty dead for a bit until people have had their fill of PvE then things will pick up again.

Spawn camping really sucks and I’ll apologize on behalf of those who decide to drop siege in this instance. I can almost guarantee you it was not an active wvw-er or guild that placed those. DH has plenty of pve pugs that only show up in wvw when we’re already winning, which is probably why you’ve primarily seen, as you say, blobs that get wrecked by hammer trains. This week we’ve worked on getting new commanders and new players interested in wvw, and there’s always the possibility of things like this happening.

Honestly, we hate this matchup more than you guys do. None of our guilds have even been running organized ops because what’s the point? It’s not fair that you fight a server with far greater numbers and coverage and active zerg busters to boot. In any case, thank you for pointing this out because I have a feeling it will be brought up in the days to follow.

They will get bored eventually , only those who want to fight players usually stick around near spawn, because fighting doors or pressing #1 or #2 on siege when they’re dominating is just sad, they could go do something else better with their time.

SFR once did this against Deso on some nights and we actually pushed them back once the rest got bored, fun times.

Yeah I can’t make a broad statement about all DH spawn camping but in IOJ anyone in our guild who did, we booted. FC is looking to build up our eb presence especially and this is hard to do with this matchup but QQ is looking to add to the numbers. We moved from IOJ to a lower tier server so we can have a greater impact and build. We are mostly ppt but tough to get others in a server being hammered to come out so we have to be patient and keep leading by example when we can. It would be great to get people from other servers unhappy there. We don’t tolerate spawn camping and we can beat it by running from the wings but it gets to be counter productive. If you want to join a budding server with more control than blobbing as the 50th man to a tower, we are happy to have anyone. Just don’t spawn camp or drop siege on bodies or troll.

When a server is this badly outnumbered taking the other route will only delay the inevitable. I am on DH and it seems some have forgotten GOM camping us. I haven’t been on in a few days but when I was on I saw where you have someone on FC that also knows how to deal with spawn campers. He may feel like its not worth the effort considering you are that outnumbered. I hope FC does not consider those vultures the face of DH. I have seen upclose what goes around comes around.

Some players forget one thing: WvW is a warlike gamemode. It may be sad for outnumbered servers to get farmed like this but from a technical view spawncamping is explicitly wanted. Since the server with the most points wins and beyond of this even more points means also an even better total ranking it should be the goal of any server to get as much points as possible. This implies if your team is dominating the maps you should then probably focus on breaking the morale of your enemies as much as possible.

No, FC has not lumped all of DH into the same category as the trolls spawn camping from HART, DHE, TAG etc. We get it; as many as a dozen trolls sat most of Thursday night just looking to bully. Dropping siege, ballying a duel, trebbing from lang, all poor form. Unless their guilds decide to condemn that behavior it will continue. And hearing from the DH campers that GOM did it is not an excuse.

There is nothing wanted or good about spawn camping. Driving another server or servers off the map means the match-up gets dull for all three servers and as a result Anet loses player hours. I’m sure Anet has a formula for revenue based on average hours played per player. Fewer players per hour ultimately translates into less revenue. So it is in Anets best interest to end that if they can.

There is a ton of gaming out there so if gamers become bored by a dead wvw due to lopsided match-ups and spawn camping they will bounce. They will play another game and that isn’t good for anyone. I know, I’ve heard people in TS and seen it in map chat. “This sucks I’m going to (fill in game here). Maybe I’ll try back later.”

Sworddragon.8512:

Some players forget one thing: WvW is a warlike gamemode. It may be sad for outnumbered servers to get farmed like this but from a technical view spawncamping is explicitly wanted. Since the server with the most points wins and beyond of this even more points means also an even better total ranking it should be the goal of any server to get as much points as possible. This implies if your team is dominating the maps you should then probably focus on breaking the morale of your enemies as much as possible.

You don’t have enemies in this game, merely opponents for the week. Since we all get our matches from a collective pool of players, breaking anyone’s morale is a stupid way to play.

That said, DH is in a tier that’s ridiculously underpowered for them, and they are (were – the week is over now) farming glicko to beat GoM to T5 just to shake things up I assume.

GoM beat them out by a bit, so DH will stay in T6 and T7 will probably have Ehmry Bay after reset instead. So it’ll be much the same, but we have fewer people so not quite as bad for you.

After that matchup, BP will likely drop down into T7 and you guys can sort out who can beat who.

Well at least some things don’t change. Now Ehmry Bay has spawn campers dropping siege even closer. Woe, OG, Mudz guilds all have members out front standing so close to the Legendary guards one was dropped on the steps. After a day that saw a great matchup too. FC stood toe to toe with Ebay all day and all night up until about 1am est even though it seems that Kaineg is pulling the Maguuma and Sorrow’s Furnace disappearing act.

This keeps players from coming in, so silly. And the knuckleheads from FC who duel out front only perpetuate this behavior. Where is the pride. It’s like someone taking your house and you are dueling them on your “old” front lawn to have fun.

Ehmry is not as large as DB and after a day of having their keep and towers papered and smc capped over and over it’s a shame it has now devolved into spawn camping.

All is fair in love and war.

My solution has always been to let them sit there. If we’re overwhelmed in a fight we’ve clearly lost I would rather not give them said fight, let them sit there and do ABSOLUTELY nothing with their towers, go off someplace else and prepare for next weeks match up, then FORCE them to do the same by not giving them anything to do in WvW

Jay.7546:

This keeps players from coming in, so silly. And the knuckleheads from FC who duel out front only perpetuate this behavior. Where is the pride. It’s like someone taking your house and you are dueling them on your “old” front lawn to have fun.

I think you have your answer as to why people are dueling.

I think the bigger question is how does the 16th rank server overpower servers 2 and 3 ranks above it?

what’s wrong with spawn camping? I think it’s smart tactic move.

Sworddragon.8512:

Some players forget one thing: WvW is a warlike gamemode.

WvW is a warlike gamemode.

warlike gamemode.

gamemode.

game

If you’re intentionally trying to break someone’s morale in a video game, you’re taking the game way too seriously. Your battles are going to be boring as hell when you’re attacking an empty map because everybody quit WvW because, surprisingly enough, people tend to not find running into walls of death to be fun.

It’s cuz you left IOJ tristan

Come back and get spawn camped by FA on every map instead, atleast they don’t use siege

(bring QQ back with you, our EB towers aren’t upgraded an sieged anymore )

Filaha.1678:

If you’re intentionally trying to break someone’s morale in a video game, you’re taking the game way too seriously.

Who are you to judge how seriously someone should take the game? If my enemy chooses to take offense or insult to something as part of the game mechanics, and I find that it causes him to play on tilt, I’m going to take advantage of it. Every. Single. Time.

What else breaks morale aside from spawn camping?
Resetting a server’s garrison breaks morale.
Taking their keep in EB breaks their morale.
Getting rushed by 10+ omega golems breaks morale.
Getting your 10+ omega golem rush wiped breaks morale.
Losing your borderlands to Asians and Australians while you sleep breaks morale.

On a macro level, there is admittedly more than a little bit of responsibility on the shoulders of ANet for ensuring matches are somewhat balanced.

On a micro level, there’s no other way to say it. Sorry, but it’s your job to keep your morale, not my job to try and not break it.

Filaha.1678:

Your battles are going to be boring as hell when you’re attacking an empty map because everybody quit WvW because, surprisingly enough, people tend to not find running into walls of death to be fun.

The harder we blow you out you get yourself blown out, the faster you’ll drop (or we’ll rise) to the next tier. I think that design is working exactly as intended, although perhaps it needs to be a bit faster.

DaveGan.8065:

Who are you to judge how seriously someone should take the game?

I’m another player. You know, the people behind the characters that you see running around.

When you do something that just plain ruins any fun other people could possibly have for no other reason than because you can, and hide behind the excuse that it’s tactics, then you’re just trying to justify being an kitten . Because let’s face it, if you have the numbers that you can just have a few dozen people spawn-camping, you clearly are going to win anyways, so it’s not “tactics”.

That’s like saying it’s tactical to beat someone with a baseball bat and then rub salt in their wounds afterwards.

it’s easy to be too mean. What seems funny to you may not be funny to the target.

I have been spawn camped many times, but always bounce back in a little while.

People doing this to you may not know you won’t laugh it off and do it to them at your first opportunity.

Filaha.1678:

When you do something that just plain ruins any fun other people could possibly have for no other reason than because you can, and hide behind the excuse that it’s tactics, then you’re just trying to justify being an kitten .

Offense is taken, not given. The only person who can take your fun away is yourself.

I’ve never spawn camped myself as I’ve seen it as incredibly counterproductive vs any group with a brain.

When spawn camping succeeds it’s a sign of one of the following issues:
-a lopsided WvW match where there was never any fun to be had
-your failure to go around the camp
-your failure to enlist help
-your failure to outwait the spawncampers (they get bored very quickly when people stop going to feed them bags)

Notice two words that most of those things have in common: “your” and “failure”.

That’s like saying it’s tactical to beat someone with a baseball bat and then rub salt in their wounds afterwards.

What is this I don’t even…whatever, I’ll correct this grasping at straws analogy.

Against the rules:
-Hitting someone with a baseball bat
-Rubbing salt in someone’s open wound

Not against the rules, and tactical if it puts them on tilt:
-Stealing a base on a catcher with a bad arm
-Throwing curveballs to a batter notoriously bad at hitting them
-Taunting a hitter about his previous 3 strikeouts
-Reminding the opposing team that they are 10 games out of the playoff hunt
-Painting the opposing team’s locker room pink

DaveGan.8065:

Offense is taken, not given. The only person who can take your fun away is yourself.

More bad excuses to justify being an kitten . Pretty sure that two dozen people sitting outside your base with siege are doing a kitten fine job helping to ruin fun.

Would you defend cheaters with this same logic? It’s not the cheater’s fault that you find it pointless to upgrade a keep when they teleport into it without even scratching a wall or door and take it without you having a chance to defend it. It’s yours!

After all, let’s look at this logically. If they weren’t there, I could leave and have fun. If they’re there, I can’t leave and therefore can’t have fun. Conclusion: The reason I am not having fun is them. Logic!

-your failure to go around the camp

Assuming they don’t have people camping all exits because they also know exactly where all exits are, which, as you so delicately put it, anyone with a brain would do.

-your failure to enlist help

From who? You’re assuming that there’s some magical pool from which I can immediately draw people as soon as I’m outnumbered. Please explain this mystical source of people that for some reason aren’t there already but I have at my beck and call.

-your failure to outwait the spawncampers (they get bored very quickly when people stop going to feed them bags)

So in other words, don’t do anything? Great. And while that’s going on, I’m still not having fun.

Notice two words that most of those things have in common: “your” and “failure”.

Notice how none of those would be my fault at all, except for “not outwaiting them”, which is a terrible point because it relies on me basically just not playing the game. Your only valid suggestion is to not play. So… great job coming up with the worst suggestion imaginable.

What is this I don’t even…whatever, I’ll correct this grasping at straws analogy.

I never said anything about a baseball game, so I’m not sure why you’re assuming there’s “rules” involved and saying stealing bases and locker rooms and whatnot. That’s just completely illogical because I don’t know why you’d assuming “beating someone with a baseball bat” was in reference to playing baseball.

To aid you, although logic should have taken care of this, I was talking about a fistfight. If someone’s coming in with only their fists but you bring a baseball bat, beat them with it, and then decide to rub salt in their wounds, the salt isn’t “tactical”. It’s being an kitten .

Fastest way to prevent spawn camping is move en masse to another map. This involves using voice comms and having a commander or two. If you keep running out the door expecting a different result time after time, that’s the classic definition of insanity.

Of course if ‘someone else’ has to organise this every time, then ‘no one’ will and there will be 10-15 headless suicide merchants on your side going out one at a time to offer themselves up as free bags for hours on end. Why would the campers move away when it’s a good source of sparse wvw rewards?

Filaha.1678:

snip

Nobody who spawncamps is breaking any in-game rule, so it’s sort of ridiculous to bring in some real life example including 1.) physical force, and 2.) breaking laws.

“Your” refers to your server/community as a whole. If you guys can’t punish spawn campers, then either you belong in a lower tier, or you need to start finding better leadership (or establishing it to begin with).

But if you’re going to be pedantic about everything, then let’s throw out spawn camping altogether as your key point was about morale, not spawn camping. You are still fully responsible for managing your own morale.

It doesn’t matter if it’s spawn camping, getting trash talked on forums, losing your garrison, getting golem rushed, getting your golems wiped, etc etc. It’s nobody else’s responsibility but your own (as a server) to rally each other back and recover.

If others want to claim the area outside your base, and you aren’t able (or willing) to go around or fight back, then they have more right to be in that area than you do.

EDIT: wow I just reread this part again…trying not to touch the palm of my hand to the fore of my head right now.

Filaha.1678:

After all, let’s look at this logically. If they weren’t there, I could leave and have fun. If they’re there, I can’t leave and therefore can’t have fun.

You are always free to leave. We are always free to challenge you when you do. If you (as a group/server) aren’t willing or able to fight us, then you don’t deserve to step outside, and should start thinking about buying zerker gear for PvE.

But wait, even dungeon mobs will fight back. Time to feed dance for cows in Queensdale, then? Look! ANet acknowledges that some content is too hard, so they even nerfed feeding the cows for you!

DaveGan.8065:

Nobody who spawncamps is breaking any in-game rule,

Didn’t say they were.

so it’s sort of ridiculous to bring in some real life example including 1.) physical force, and 2.) breaking laws.

No it isn’t.

“Your” refers to your server/community as a whole. If you guys can’t punish spawn campers, then either you belong in a lower tier, or you need to start finding better leadership (or establishing it to begin with).

Which is sort of my point, if you bothered paying attention to the argument instead of attempting to shift blame for someone being an kitten onto the person they’re being an kitten to.

As I already said, which you apparently ignored:

Because let’s face it, if you have the numbers that you can just have a few dozen people spawn-camping, you clearly are going to win anyways, so it’s not “tactics”.

I clearly am not talking about perfectly even fights where one side can easily match the other’s numbers and just push them out. I think that was made perfectly obvious with that statement. Or I thought it was.

I’ll clarify again: If you’re already winning because you’re holding everything to the point where you can spend supply and build siege just to prevent anyone from even leaving their entry, much less attack anything, then it’s not tactical to do so. It’s just rubbing salt in their wounds.

It doesn’t matter if it’s spawn camping, getting trash talked on forums, losing your garrison, getting golem rushed, getting your golems wiped, etc etc. It’s nobody else’s responsibility but your own (as a server) to rally each other back and recover.

Taking someone’s garrison is proper gameplay. Golem rushing is fair gameplay. Defending yourself is fair gameplay.

Owning everything and camping the spawn so people can’t even leave is ruining the game for other people for no better reason than because you can. Trash talking on forums is also lame and again is not necessary to do just so you can be rude.

It’s amazing the distance you’ll go to defend people going out of their way to be rude and ruin other peoples’ fun in a game. But the fun of others is irrelevant as long as you can laugh at them, amirite?

DaveGan.8065:

You are always free to leave. We are always free to challenge you when you do. If you (as a group/server) aren’t willing or able to fight us, then you don’t deserve to step outside, and should start thinking about buying zerker gear for PvE.

But wait, even dungeon mobs will fight back. Time to feed dance for cows in Queensdale, then? Look! ANet acknowledges that some content is too hard, so they even nerfed feeding the cows for you!

Your mentality and attitude is the reason I laugh really hard whenever someone suggests GW2’s community is good.

Look, fighting at your spawn is going to be easier than fighting at a camp, tower, keep, or even in the open field. Why? Because it’s closest to your respawn and furthest from theirs. If you can’t even do that then you’re not going to be able to do anything on the map anyways. You can even thank the spawn campers for quickly deterring you from wasting your time!

In fact, spawn campers on most servers are the squirrels who don’t pay attention, get tunnel vision 98% of the time, and become overextending rallybots whenever they do stay on tag. Most servers would do considerably better without these people.

That the matches would get so imbalanced that spawn campers can do so and go unpunished is an issue to take with ANet. I’ll even be the first person to back you up if you do go to them.

But keep morale out of it. We’re not responsible for your server’s feelings, and we’ll constantly be looking for ways to crush enemy morale as we boost our own.

also, just deal. It is about the same scenario as reset. Go rebuild.

DaveGan.8065:

Look, fighting at your spawn is going to be easier than fighting at a camp, tower, keep, or even in the open field. Why? Because it’s closest to your respawn and furthest from theirs. If you can’t even do that then you’re not going to be able to do anything on the map anyways. You can even thank the spawn campers for quickly deterring you from wasting your time!

How does that make sense? You can’t build siege in your spawn, and ballistae and arrow carts are cheap to build up. How is it going to be easier to fight them when you’re just running into a wall of arrow carts carpet-bombing the area and ballistae stripping your health because there’s probably a half dozen people who are stunning, immobilizing, or otherwise preventing you from avoiding it? Because you can run back faster after your inevitable slaughter?

You can, however, and probably will unless you don’t know what you’re doing, build siege at towers, keeps, etc.

That the matches would get so imbalanced that spawn campers can do so and go unpunished is an issue to take with ANet. I’ll even be the first person to back you up if you do go to them.

I’m not denying that. However, just because you can do it because design allows you to doesn’t mean you need to or should, when it’s unnecessary and does nothing but chase people out of the game.

But keep morale out of it. We’re not responsible for your server’s feelings, and we’ll constantly be looking for ways to crush enemy morale as we boost our own.

It’s not necessarily so much to do with morale as it is to do with the fact that it’s a game. If people don’t have fun playing a game, they quit. If the only way I can “win” is to not play, why would I bother playing? There’s a ton of other MMOs or games which I could go to that allow me to play, even if there’s a competitive mode.

It’s the fact that it’s a game that makes it so stupid. You’re not going to get anything special out of it. The only thing you might achieve is ruining the game for other people. If you’re perfectly fine with ruining a game for other people while hiding behind the wall of “Well, it’s not my fault you’re not having fun,” well… I never saw anyone claim that empathy was an inherent human trait.

ruining the game for other people is being a troll.

You’re still interchanging motive (“they’re trying to ruin my fun!”) with perception (“my fun’s being ruined!”).

The only time this becomes a problem (in my eyes) is when winning takes a back seat to breaking your morale/ruining your fun. While I will probably agree that many of the spawn campers you described fall into this problem region, the problem is not that they’re ruining your fun, but that they’re no longer doing it to win.

If you’re perfectly fine with ruining a game for other people while hiding behind the wall of “Well, it’s not my fault you’re not having fun,”

And I’ll repeat it here. So long as it helps improve my chances of winning, I’m going to keep looking for ways to crush your morale. So long as the match is not out of reach for you, I will rub not only salt, but also hot peppers and alcohol, into those wounds. That is the nature of war and PvP.

While DaveGan is technically correct in that WvW is a war and thus everything that can be done to achieve victory (outside of blatant cheating/hacking or hiring somebody on the enemy server to go spy/siege troll/waste supply) should be done, Filaha also has a point about not pushing it too far. If you just roflstomp the enemy server over and over, they’ll eventually stop showing up altogether, and then you’re just left with total map domination and nobody to play against. Is total victory worth the price of having a completely dead WvW match-up for the rest of the week? Or of possibly getting shunted up a tier and then YOU getting spawn camped for the rest of the week because the higher tier has 5 times your server numbers?

At the end of the day, WvW is still just a game. Going in too hard can lead to problems down the line for your own server.

DaveGan.8065:

You’re still interchanging motive (“they’re trying to ruin my fun!”) with perception (“my fun’s being ruined!”).

No, I’m not. I’ll repeat myself again because you seem to be missing what I’m actually talking about.

If you are already winning and will still definitely win, spawncamping is nothing but going out of your way to ruin the game for someone.

I am not talking about when the numbers might be closer to even and you’re camping the spawn to buy time for another team to cap a keep or tower without reinforcements. I am not talking about when the match is neck and neck and you’re pushing them back as far as you can to prevent them from capping more. I am not talking about when it might be a legitimate strategy.

I am talking about when you’re already dominating a matchup and you’re doing nothing but preventing people from even setting foot outside their spawn point, much less anywhere near a keep.

I am talking about a situation where you could let out a group of people, follow them until they take a tower or keep, and then be in before RI even wears off of the Lord and take it back.

In fact, my very first post here specifically states “If you’re intentionally trying to break someone’s morale”. In other words, if your intent is specifically to make them feel bad, then you are a bad person. It’s a game, and you’re playing against other humans. It won’t kill you to lighten up.

Also, in fact, if you look at the entire premise of the thread from the OP, the thread itself is against significantly unfair situations and how it’s just rubbing salt in the wounds, so…

I don’t think we’re in disagreement about spawn camping in lopsided matches being bad. But we do differ in why we think it’s bad. You say it’s because it’s fun or morale breaking while I think your low morale is at best irrelevant to me and at worst something I should celebrate.

I’m more indifferent to it, but am still opposed to it because 1.) it tends to be counterproductive in general, and 2.) winning is no longer the primary motive.

In fact, my very first post here specifically states “If you’re intentionally trying to break someone’s morale”. In other words, if your intent is specifically to make them feel bad, then you are a bad person.

Here is your quote I’ve been arguing against. Again, it says nothing here specifically referencing spawn camping so I assumed you were being general.

I’m going to do everything within the limits to break your morale. Extremely intentionally. I want to make you feel miserable about even stepping foot into WvW. Why? Because then I’ll have one less defender/tail ganker/backcapper to worry about.

Also, in fact, if you look at the entire premise of the thread from the OP, the thread itself is against significantly unfair situations and how it’s just rubbing salt in the wounds, so…

Point halfway taken. Although you may have intended to be specific about spawn camping with your remark, I (and perhaps others) interpreted it as general (forgive me for perhaps reading too far into what sounded like a self-righteous “it’s just a game guys” or “I play for fun” statement).

DaveGan.8065:

I’m going to do everything within the limits to break your morale. Extremely intentionally. I want to make you feel miserable about even stepping foot into WvW. Why? Because then I’ll have one less defender/tail ganker/backcapper to worry about.

And that’s what makes you and people with your attitude a part of the problem with the community of GW2 (and, generally speaking, all games with competition).

Because you’ll do whatever you can to make someone want to not play the game. Because as long as you’re winning a week-long match which will give you zero added benefits, you don’t care that you’re ruining someone else’s form of relaxation.

And eventually WvW will be empty except for terrible people being terrible.

Always thought a player should have 30 seconds or whatever of invulnerably when leaving spawn. Or allow the building of seige in spawn so you can deal with this kinda stuff.

I agree, farming spawn is just wrong. this week is really frustrating to me. FA is steam rolling ioj and cd, and you cant get the commanders to back off and let them have there keep back. Just not right.

tym.3791:

Always thought a player should have 30 seconds or whatever of invulnerably when leaving spawn. Or allow the building of seige in spawn so you can deal with this kinda stuff.

I agree, farming spawn is just wrong. this week is really frustrating to me. FA is steam rolling ioj and cd, and you cant get the commanders to back off and let them have there keep back. Just not right.

IMO, there should be one of two things. Either special cannons/mortars in base that can reach far enough to prevent useful spawn camping, or a NPC you can talk to that spawns a bunch of Legendary Defenders that push out to a certain distance (all with permanent RI).

The defenders that are there feel entirely useless when you’re invincible inside the base anyways so you could easily kill anyone that enters far enough for the defenders to aggro.

One idea I suggested a while back was, if you are being absolutely dominated on a particular map (possibly based on your PPT score), you can hire an incredibly powerful NPC that will help you go out and cap back some objectives. How powerful? Think the Legendary Sand Giant from Dry Top-powerful. Massive AoE and CC abilities that can one-shot enemies, coupled with ridiculous amounts of health (the same as the Overgrown Grub in EBG) that means it would take 100+ players all attacking the Giant for at least 10 mins before they’d kill him. The Giant can also break down gates in 2 hits (4 hits for a reinforced gate), and if unopposed, can capture an enemy Keep all by himself (after which he sits in the Keep for another hour before despawning).

DaveGan.8065:

Look, fighting at your spawn is going to be easier than fighting at a camp, tower, keep, or even in the open field. Why? Because it’s closest to your respawn and furthest from theirs. If you can’t even do that then you’re not going to be able to do anything on the map anyways. You can even thank the spawn campers for quickly deterring you from wasting your time!

In fact, spawn campers on most servers are the squirrels who don’t pay attention, get tunnel vision 98% of the time, and become overextending rallybots whenever they do stay on tag. Most servers would do considerably better without these people.

That the matches would get so imbalanced that spawn campers can do so and go unpunished is an issue to take with ANet. I’ll even be the first person to back you up if you do go to them.

But keep morale out of it. We’re not responsible for your server’s feelings, and we’ll constantly be looking for ways to crush enemy morale as we boost our own.

Having read all of your posts in this thread, I’m inclined to think you don’t really know what people are like on other servers and, I’m guessing, you’re not strongly in touch with how people are on your own server.

About the only time spawn camping isn’t a totally terrible idea is if your own group has pushed a group back to their spawn, and you’re still there when they rally. If it’s an ongoing fight, that’s not so bad. If you’ve placed siege and are there to prevent them from leaving spawn, all you’re doing is taking away from the game for them and yourselves.

Because a fightless week, even if you live for PPT, is a bad week. And we have a finite pool of people from in the entirety of WvW (across all servers) – making the game a frustrating experience (which spawn camping does in a way that’s different from flipping someone’s garrison) is a dumb thing to do, when these are the people who didn’t quit the game when so many others have, but get extra nonsense like this dumped in their laps.

Back off and fight them in a camp or a tower so that, win or lose, everybody gets something out of it. Further comments to the contrary aren’t going to win you any supporters.

Zaxares.5419:

While DaveGan is technically correct in that WvW is a war and thus everything that can be done to achieve victory (outside of blatant cheating/hacking or hiring somebody on the enemy server to go spy/siege troll/waste supply) should be done,

It’s not a war, it’s a game. If it were a war, cheating/hacking and hiring spies and saboteurs would be totally okay.

Zaxares.5419:

At the end of the day, WvW is still just a game. Going in too hard can lead to problems down the line for your own server.

This is a much more accurate statement.

Rimmy.9217:

It’s not a war, it’s a game. If it were a war, cheating/hacking and hiring spies and saboteurs would be totally okay.

I know it’s a game. That’s why I didn’t condone cheating/hacking and the hiring of spies/saboteurs. A game needs to preserve “fair play”, and the biggest objection to those tactics is that the victimised server basically has no ways to counter or fight back; reporting cheaters/hackers won’t stop them immediately, and by the time they get suspended/banned the damage has been done. The same goes for spies/saboteurs.

It’s also why I don’t really oppose a 2v1 situation IF the ganged-up server is more powerful than the other two. In a war, it’s only logical for the weaker combatants to team up to survive against the more powerful opponent, and depending on the server, they might even still be able to hold their ground against two opponents (if not necessarily win). But if it was the two stronger servers teaming up to stomp the weakest into oblivion, then that violates the “fair play” principle that exists for games.

Having read all of your posts in this thread, I’m inclined to think you don’t really know what people are like on other servers and, I’m guessing, you’re not strongly in touch with how people are on your own server.

Rimmy.9217:

DaveGan.8065:

In fact, spawn campers on most servers are the squirrels who don’t pay attention, get tunnel vision 98% of the time, and become overextending rallybots whenever they do stay on tag. Most servers would do considerably better without these people.

About the only time spawn camping isn’t a totally terrible idea is if your own group has pushed a group back to their spawn, and you’re still there when they rally. If it’s an ongoing fight, that’s not so bad. If you’ve placed siege and are there to prevent them from leaving spawn, all you’re doing is taking away from the game for them and yourselves.

Are you putting words in my mouth? Did you misread (or not read) the bit from me that you actually quoted? Because I’m pretty sure I agreed with pretty much what you said, albeit for a different reason.

Your line about ongoing fight is naive and idealistic. While your “ongoing fight” may be the 5 minute skirmish, for others it is the week matchup.

Back off and fight them in a camp or a tower so that, win or lose, everybody gets something out of it.

More naivety. Do you really think getting farmed by a blob at a tower is somehow less discouraging than getting cut off by spawn campers? Because you will not get an even open field match with just the spawn campers, as much as you feel like numbers could be even and the siege might not be there.

Further comments to the contrary aren’t going to win you any supporters.

I don’t think my argument (or any argument) requires a bandwagon of followers for validation. Moreover, I’m just echoing the thoughts of others in this thread before me (expect war and PvP in PvP zone, and go to PvE if you can’t handle it), just in more gory detail.

It’s not a war, it’s a game. If it were a war, cheating/hacking and hiring spies and saboteurs would be totally okay.

Wrong again. Even in war the Geneva convention and other rules of engagement apply. In this game those rules of engagement are set by ANet.

(edited for quote formatting)

Backing players to their spawn for tactical reasons is “fair” play. Camping players with a superior force for the sole purpose of demoralizing them is poor sportsmanship. We can debate all day about whether or not sportsmanship belongs in WvW but camping falls undeniably into this category.

There are 3 exist

McWolfy.5924:

There are 3 exist

Exits* – but yeah, that’s what I thought.